Honda Says Goodbye?

[dribbler 6]

I understood that Meani - simple enough - I'm dim, but not that dim.

What I don't understand is Maure's message. That's what I'm asking for someone to explain.

My original post...

Maure's post (in which he quoted my original post).

I don't undersand.

There clearly seems to be a lack of surprise from the one they call _maure_ about you rising up from the heel of both feet to support yourself only on the end digits of said feet. Whilst you do this, you are clearly circling around a thing/person of much amusement to the one they call _maure_.

Now, why the hell don't you get that?

[yurp 0]

Manure doesn't even understand himself.

Don't worry about it. He shovels manure so fast he's been employed on a farm to muck it out on the pasture, retiring the Komptech and Mayer in one foul swoop.

Okay - so I haven't misread / missed anything then. It is just the usual nonsensical blather.

There clearly seems to be a lack of surprise from the one they call _maure_ about you rising up from the heel of both feet to support yourself only on the end digits of said feet. Whilst you do this, you are clearly circling around a thing/person of much amusement to the one they call _maure_.

Now, why the hell don't you get that?

Cheers Dribs - a simple "I don't understand what he meant either" would have sufficed. Anyhow - if I in any way amused our friend maure then I'm happy for him - he evidently has an amazing sense of humor.

To be honest though - you may be crediting him with actual intent - I think he just quoted the wrong post.

Jeez, the off season is dull.

[pabloh20 1]

Can no one explain this to me or can no one else fathom what maure's comment was about?

I'm utterly lost. (and not afraid to admit it)

What did I tiptoe around? My mother would be proud that I've finally learnt the art, but I can't help feeling it would reassure her if I knew I'd done it.

As for the chat-up lines - I'm fairly rusty in that regard. Been too long since I've needed one. Though having read Pabloh's I shall head out for a night on the tiles and give them a go. Just who will explain my consequent black eye to the missis?

They will never fail you. It's the old footy adage of you're judged on your results. I've had sex twice in 24yrs 8mths & 42 days. Quite frankly, they're the sort of stats you just can't help but beat off to

[yurp 0]

They will never fail you. It's the old footy adage of you're judged on your results. I've had sex twice in 24yrs 8mths & 42 days. Quite frankly, they're the sort of stats you just can't help but beat off to

quality

[DOF_power 0]

...

Ecclestone said fans don't care how many cylinders the car has or the capacity of the engine - they just want entertainment on the track. This is rich. Ecclestone suggesting that somehow it was the manufacturers' fault that the costs of F1 has spiraled out of control (for the record Honda was spending $294 - $300 million annually, while Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz are spending $400 million). This after Ecclestone (with Mosley's acquiescence) has repeatedly escalated promotional fees, sponsorship fees, television rights fees and other money-generating scams and schemes that have pushed F1 to the brink. For these two carpetbaggers to suggest that they were utterly blameless in all of this and that it was the auto manufacturers - the very lifeblood of the sport itself - who are to blame is completely ludicrous. The Bernie and Max show has been based on a foundation of unbridled greed since they took over the sport. Their constant drive for new streams of revenue, new venues that would blindly pay the outrageous fees demanded, and new corporations who could be duped into spending untold sums of money to be a part of the F1 circus knew no bounds. I hope that Honda pulling out of F1 is the beginning of the end for this sport as we know it, because F1 has been corroded and corrupted by p**s-poor management and the emphasis on greed for greed's sake for far too long. Honda has fired just the first shot in this battle. The real war is only beginning.

- PMD

[Max Mosley 2]

If Ecclestone is right, the manufacturers can do what they like, whether PMS likes it or not.

[DOF_power 0]

No they can't cause there's restriction and bans everywhere.

[Insider 0]

According to Max the Axe, Honda would be willing to help an incoming buyer through 2009. This is a positive step. He also said, 'an entrepreneur would need to be satisfied the FIA had costs control for 2010'. He is clearly talking about DR - there is no one else involved - that is the best info I have. The fact that McBenz have joined Ferrari in calling for a removal of KERS from the regs is another positive move today. Also, Bourdais and Sato's remarks about sponsor gathering are a clear indication that the STR seats are buy rides. In the last resort, it would be something JB could easily afford to do if the Honda sale is a non-starter. He wants to race - don't we all.

[Max Mosley 2]

The fact that McBenz have joined Ferrari in calling for a removal of KERS from the regs is another positive move today.

Fun fun fun. Is it too complicated for them too?

[Fed up 0]

...

Ecclestone said fans don't care how many cylinders the car has or the capacity of the engine - they just want entertainment on the track. This is rich. Ecclestone suggesting that somehow it was the manufacturers' fault that the costs of F1 has spiraled out of control (for the record Honda was spending $294 - $300 million annually, while Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz are spending $400 million). This after Ecclestone (with Mosley's acquiescence) has repeatedly escalated promotional fees, sponsorship fees, television rights fees and other money-generating scams and schemes that have pushed F1 to the brink. For these two carpetbaggers to suggest that they were utterly blameless in all of this and that it was the auto manufacturers - the very lifeblood of the sport itself - who are to blame is completely ludicrous. The Bernie and Max show has been based on a foundation of unbridled greed since they took over the sport. Their constant drive for new streams of revenue, new venues that would blindly pay the outrageous fees demanded, and new corporations who could be duped into spending untold sums of money to be a part of the F1 circus knew no bounds.

I really don't understand all this cost cutting bullsh!t that is the current fad in F1. This is a competition where the winning team and driver take the spoils. There is no spending cap so the TEAMS spend what they can afford in their pursuit of glory. If you don't have the budget you compete, but not at the front - if you have the budget you spend it to get the best designers, best engineers and best drivers and, with luck, you come out on top. How do you reduce spending without imposing a spending cap?

What happens to all the cash swilling in F1 when the engines are a fraction of their current costs? Will sponsors have to pay less for advertising? No! because the spectacle and audiences will still be there, so it wont be any cheaper to advertise. Reducing costs only means that someone else gets paid more, the teams, the FIA or Bernie.

The question; why do they need to reduce costs in a sport where spending is by choice. Force India spends less than Williams and Williams spends less than ferrari. If Ferrari don't want to spend what they do their performance will suffer, they will lose sponsors and lose performance - the choice to spend is their choice. If they don't have the money they cant spend it. If their costs are less what do they do with the spare income? Pay the drivers more? engineers? bernie?

As usual, I try to approach these debates with a different perspective.

EDIT: Take Honda for example, they had a Ferrari budget with Force India/Super Aguri performance. That was their choice and ultimately their incompetence. They could have slashed their budget by 2/3rds and it wouldn't have made any difference to their ranking in the sport. It was Honda fault for spending that amount of cash and their engineers/designers fault for delivering a very poor return on capital. They leave F1 blaming costs and the credit crunch when the real culprit is themselves.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

I really don't understand all this cost cutting bullsh!t that is the current fad in F1.

Simple, there's not enough money coming in - sponsorship money is exiting stage left. Car sales have gone through the floor for manufacturers and unless the management of the F1 teams can convince their boards that F1 represents a good investment for PR/research, it will be in the bin as an unnecessary expense. The only easy solution is if Bernie unlocks some more of the TV revenue. Here's a thought - what if Bernie acted like some of the central banks in our economies and invested some of the historic money that has been generated back into the sport to prop it up? Not going to happen, but a nice thought.

The overspending is always going to be there - Honda worked on the basis that their arch rivals are spending

[Fed up 0]

Now if you ask me whether they have had good value for money? Ah different question altogether and I would agree that there has been lots of wastage.

Last season Mclaren got 54% exposure, Ferrari 30% or so - Honda got 1%, the lowest of all the teams. Yes, 1% of billions of viewers is still significant exposure, but these figures coupled with their poor performance at the Japanese/China gp may have had a bearing in their decision.

More news here

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/for...icle5321662.ece

looks like JB will be well paid regardless.

[Insider 0]

So, Bernie says it's a good thing Honda have gone - they were a bad example in terms of excessive expenditure. He has also been quoted as saying, 'We have whittled it down to three serious buyers'. Really? Who are the other two then? There are lot of experienced press hounds working this story and they have unearthed no-one other than Dave Richards. There is an internal rumour of a management buy-out though - I can tell you that. With a

[Fed up 0]

So, Bernie says it's a good thing Honda have gone - they were a bad example in terms of excessive expenditure. He has also been quoted as saying, 'We have whittled it down to three serious buyers'. Really? Who are the other two then? There are lot of experienced press hounds working this story and they have unearthed no-one other than Dave Richards. There is an internal rumour of a management buy-out though - I can tell you that. With a

[Medilloni 6]

..............................I think DR will make them squirm....until the whole deal is gazzumped from under his nose.

The first part would be true Fed Upski, the second part would be funny. A management buyout sounds good to me - maybe Jense might like to buy a share at this cut-down price, he could do much worse than throw his lot in with Ross.

[Quiet One 15]

**** Honda.

**** Bernie.

**** Mosley.

Even Renault can go **** themselves if they leave (Renault is not known for their F1 commitment in the past)

Let them all leave F1. Leave regulations at a minimum. Small mammals were driven away by huge dinosaurs. Now it's time to watch the dinosaurs collapse under their own weight. If recession continues, only small teams with great deals of ingenuity will be able to survive in F1. (Plus Macca and Ferrari, and I woulnd't trust that Macca is 100% commited)

Cost cutting through free competition. Why is not acceptable when it was acceptable to INCREASE costs astronomically by means of free competition?

[DOF_power 0]

They're all corrupt.

We need both the small mammals and dinosaurs and everything else save for microbes to disappear to reset everything.

Formula 1 is dead, long live Grand Prix racing.

[Insider 0]

Reading between the lines this is my take.

- Honda will part fund the team for 2009

- from 2010 the team can switch to Cosworth engines

- DR is probably stalling for more concessions from Honda as payback for firing him.

For a prospective team, this is a win win situation. They have Button under contract, a couple of blue chip sponsors, Senna $$ if needed and a ready made team and car for 2009. It is looking promising, but I think DR will make them squirm....until the whole deal is gazzumped from under his nose.

Honda are not supplying a lump this year or any year - there's the rub! We may be talking a whole new chassis design here. It could be the stalling point. Personally, I rather see a BMW unit in there. However, if 'support' means engines too, that's a different matter. The feeling of euphoria that appears to have emanated from the FIA/FOTA meeting yesterday may spread to Tokyo and we may yet see Honda doing a U-turn. Frankly, nothing would surprise me. Was Fry or Brawn at the meeting?

[Fed up 0]

Speaking at the Race of Champions draw at Wembley on Saturday, Button said he had no qualms about his current course of action and that there is no rush from his side to get matters sorted out.

"It's obviously a very difficult decision," he said. "In a way, who does know the answer, what's the right thing to do? But I'm happy with staying where I am at the moment.

"My way of thinking is that if this team does happen in 2009, we will be very strong. I'm sure there would be other options to race in F1, but very limited, because it's so late in the day. So it is a difficult decision to make.

"But at the moment I'm completely focused on working with the team to try to find someone to buy it - that has to be my best option for 2009. I'd rather not take a year out because I think that is bad for a racing driver, but that is always an option also.

"But my first aim is to race with the Brackley-based team, whatever they're called for next year."

Although Honda's withdrawal means the team no longer have as much money to invest in pre-season development, Button still believes that if a buyer is found the outfit can be very competitive.

"Our new car is almost finished and we're working very, very hard on completing that and building a strong car for 2009. Then we've just got to hope that somebody comes along and realises what a good opportunity this is to buy a Formula One team in our position.

"I'm pretty positive that we'll get a buyer, it's a great opportunity for anyone. The facilities we have are second to none, they really are. We have an amazing team principal in Ross Brawn and the factory is fighting very hard to race next season.

"If we are on the grid next year, we will be a much stronger team for it."

Button's loyalty is commendable, or is it something to do with the

[monza gorilla 1]

The latest rumour (and that's exactly what it is) is that PSA are interested. Let's just hope they don't supply the engines............ But this was in a Belgian publication with no source given so it's probably tosh.

[Medilloni 6]

The latest rumour (and that's exactly what it is) is that PSA are interested. Let's just hope they don't supply the engines............ But this was in a Belgian publication with no source given so it's probably tosh.

Maybe no fire Monza, but nice to see some smoke, it's been quiet of late.

I think I've read the same article, and you're right, maybe they should stick with writing about chocolate Indeed, Peugot's F1 engine was a howling dog, though their collaboration with BMW (MINI) for road car engines might be an opening for engine supply, fingers crossed. Though I'd guess a rich Arab (as a buyer) is probably less vulnerable to the financial events in the motor trade at the moment.

[monza gorilla 1]

Well, the French government are protecting their car industry so maybe it's not so risky. With costs coming down, and with WRC and Le Mans already under their belt, maybe there is something in this. It would also give Bourdais a drive.

[Medilloni 6]

Well, the French government are protecting their car industry so maybe it's not so risky. With costs coming down, and with WRC and Le Mans already under their belt, maybe there is something in this. It would also give Bourdais a drive.

Good points, I think it would make sense for them to have the bragging rights to doing well in all types of m/sports, and their president is a flamboyant bugger so he'd love being on the grid girls. But would that mean Jense shaves his armpits?

[Kopite Girl 0]

Button's loyalty is commendable, or is it something to do with the

[HandyNZL 1]

I see Suzukis pulled the pin on WRC now too. Guess they won't be buying the Honda team....