Kati

"in My Time They Changed It To Stop Me Winning"

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Red Bull Racing star Sebastian Vettel - F1's youngest-ever grand prix-winner - has 'the genes to one day become world champion' in the sport, claims legendary record-breaker Michael Schumacher.

Sebastian Vettel has 'the genes to one day become world champion' in Formula 1 - that is the verdict on the German youngster by none other than compatriot and record-breaking seven-time title-winner Michael Schumacher.

Vettel became the sport's youngest-ever winner when he famously triumphed for Scuderia Toro Rosso in the Italian Grand Prix at Monza aged 21 years and 74 days back in September. Though the now Red Bull Racing star has dismissed any comparisons with Schumacher, the legendary 91-time grand prix winner has agreed that his countryman - with whom he teamed up to successfully defend Germany's Nations' Cup glory in Wembley's Race of Champions at the weekend - could go on to follow in his wheeltracks one day in lifting the sport's ultimate laurels.

"I enjoy watching him," admitted the 39-year-old in an interview with Italian newspaper La Gazzetta dello Sport. "He has his own personality, the team needs to help him to develop and the results will come. He has the genes to one day become world champion; he demonstrated that this year."

The man from Kerpen also shared his views on F1's new cost-cutting regulations being brought into force from the 2009 season and beyond [see separate story - click here] - as well as Bernie Ecclestone's contentious suggestion for the traditional points system to be replaced by Olympic-style gold, silver and bronze medals.

"In my time they changed it to stop me winning," he quipped, "and now they want to change it to allow others to win...

"I agree with the need to save money, though. It was something that needed to happen, and the FIA has made it happen. It's clear to me that racing cannot close its eyes to what is happening on an economic level throughout the world. It's important to be very attentive to taking the right steps, and it seems to me that the FIA and FOTA are doing this in the correct manner.

"Potentially I think it can make the sport more exciting, but the top teams will remain the top teams, because they have the best people and organisations. Some other teams may take a step forwards, but the fact of simply having new regulations won't be enough to overturn the order.

"I'm neither an aerodynamicist nor a designer or technician, but the essential point is to reduce the aerodynamic significance and increase the mechanical importance. The new cars should be able to run closer to each other, and that may be enough to improve the spectacle."

Even if I feel I can't completely disagree with him, I just remembered why i never liked him at all. Was checking Seb news when I came across this.

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Yup. I used to like him actually. But his views about Vettel are the final straw for me. Still, he's a smart, talented and dedicated man. F1 is still missing someone in his league imho.

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Even I have to agree with him. Ultimately, they didn't need to change the regulations, though. All they had to do is make Alonso race against him. That stopped him :P

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Even I have to agree with him. Ultimately, they didn't need to change the regulations, though. All they had to do is make Alonso race against him. That stopped him :P

An engine failure in the Japanese GP is what stopped him -_-

I never liked him (largely cos I was a Hill fan) but he was amazing as a racing driver. Even though the highlighted quote sounds a tad arrogant perhaps, one must admit that what he's saying is true. The points system was changed following his dominant 2002 season. Waste of time really, as 2 years later he dominated even more than ever before

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Even I have to agree with him. Ultimately, they didn't need to change the regulations, though. All they had to do is make Alonso race against him. That stopped him :P

:lol:

Now if only they thought of letting Alonso loose in an F1 car before 2005 :dam:

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An engine failure in the Japanese GP is what stopped him -_-

Didn't Alonso suffer an engine failure in 06 as well? :eekout:

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TBH he is telling the truth...just ask Bernie - they changed the points system to try and stop him dominating...aka not have a champion crowned until the end of the season, not 12 or 13 races in. The problem with calling people arrogant is just falling inline with PC crap, and eventually no one will talk their own minds...if you can't handle the jandle then STFU. All this PC crap is just that...crap. Hamilton says things that are reflective of his confidence, but due to PC crap, it is reported and read as arrogance. He's a young guy confident enough in himself that he's going to get that sexy Macca roadcar. And good on him.

And good on Schumi for speaking his mind. He's mellowed, obviously, otherwise he would never have said Vettel was any good, let alone pay him a compliment.

Rules were changed against Ferrari after Austria re team orders. The points system was changed. And there is every chance the move to single tyre supplier was part of the levelling as well.

I'm no Ferrari fan, but I also don't give a rats about being PC about things either. Drivers should say what ever they want, and then let their driving either confirm or deny what they have said. Would hate to see some of you lot commentating on boxers what with all their "i am the greatest" pouting and stuff.

And re the team orders rules, I shall leave you with this little quote:

"Gordons answer to that of course was the fan car, the (Brabham) BT46B. After its one race in Sweden and the outcry from the other teams, Bernie agreed not to run it again. COlin CHapman was apoplectic with rage. Two weeks later at Paul Ricard we were back in the BT46, and I gave Chapman and (Mario) Andretti the bird by putting it on pole. But on race morning, Bernie said to me, "I want to ask you a question. Niki's (Lauda) got more points than you in the championship, so if you're leading on the last lap and he's second, will you pull over and give him the win?"

"This was only halfway through the season, remember. I felt he'd sucked the oxygen out of me. Perhaps I should have lied, but I was naive enough to be honest and I said "No, Bernie, I can't do that". Thereafter it became clear, not in any tangible way but clear to me, that my days at Brabham were numbered"

John Watson, former Hexagon, Surtees, Penske, Brabham, and McLaren driver.

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I think I just had an orgasm of agreement.

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Yup. I used to like him actually. But his views about Vettel are the final straw for me. Still, he's a smart, talented and dedicated man. F1 is still missing someone in his league imho.

Vettel is talent you blind, hopelessly biased Hamilton a## kisser.

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TBH he is telling the truth...just ask Bernie - they changed the points system to try and stop him dominating...aka not have a champion crowned until the end of the season, not 12 or 13 races in. The problem with calling people arrogant is just falling inline with PC crap, and eventually no one will talk their own minds...if you can't handle the jandle then STFU. All this PC crap is just that...crap. Hamilton says things that are reflective of his confidence, but due to PC crap, it is reported and read as arrogance. He's a young guy confident enough in himself that he's going to get that sexy Macca roadcar. And good on him.

And good on Schumi for speaking his mind. He's mellowed, obviously, otherwise he would never have said Vettel was any good, let alone pay him a compliment.

Rules were changed against Ferrari after Austria re team orders. The points system was changed. And there is every chance the move to single tyre supplier was part of the levelling as well.

I'm no Ferrari fan, but I also don't give a rats about being PC about things either. Drivers should say what ever they want, and then let their driving either confirm or deny what they have said. Would hate to see some of you lot commentating on boxers what with all their "i am the greatest" pouting and stuff.

+1 agree

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Now if only they thought of letting Alonso loose in an F1 car before 2005 :dam:

They did and he couldnt keep up with Jarno Trulli :P

Didn't Alonso suffer an engine failure in 06 as well? :eekout:

Er, yes. Good point.

That plus a wheel nut failure in Hungary.

Ok fine you win!

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TBH he is telling the truth...just ask Bernie - they changed the points system to try and stop him dominating...aka not have a champion crowned until the end of the season, not 12 or 13 races in. The problem with calling people arrogant is just falling inline with PC crap, and eventually no one will talk their own minds...if you can't handle the jandle then STFU. All this PC crap is just that...crap. Hamilton says things that are reflective of his confidence, but due to PC crap, it is reported and read as arrogance. He's a young guy confident enough in himself that he's going to get that sexy Macca roadcar. And good on him.

And good on Schumi for speaking his mind. He's mellowed, obviously, otherwise he would never have said Vettel was any good, let alone pay him a compliment.

Rules were changed against Ferrari after Austria re team orders. The points system was changed. And there is every chance the move to single tyre supplier was part of the levelling as well.

I'm no Ferrari fan, but I also don't give a rats about being PC about things either. Drivers should say what ever they want, and then let their driving either confirm or deny what they have said. Would hate to see some of you lot commentating on boxers what with all their "i am the greatest" pouting and stuff.

And re the team orders rules, I shall leave you with this little quote:

"Gordons answer to that of course was the fan car, the (Brabham) BT46B. After its one race in Sweden and the outcry from the other teams, Bernie agreed not to run it again. COlin CHapman was apoplectic with rage. Two weeks later at Paul Ricard we were back in the BT46, and I gave Chapman and (Mario) Andretti the bird by putting it on pole. But on race morning, Bernie said to me, "I want to ask you a question. Niki's (Lauda) got more points than you in the championship, so if you're leading on the last lap and he's second, will you pull over and give him the win?"

"This was only halfway through the season, remember. I felt he'd sucked the oxygen out of me. Perhaps I should have lied, but I was naive enough to be honest and I said "No, Bernie, I can't do that". Thereafter it became clear, not in any tangible way but clear to me, that my days at Brabham were numbered"

John Watson, former Hexagon, Surtees, Penske, Brabham, and McLaren driver.

A fine post sir. I must agree in full.

You need to quit with the dissappearing acts!

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TBH he is telling the truth...just ask Bernie - they changed the points system to try and stop him dominating...aka not have a champion crowned until the end of the season, not 12 or 13 races in. The problem with calling people arrogant is just falling inline with PC crap, and eventually no one will talk their own minds...if you can't handle the jandle then STFU. All this PC crap is just that...crap. Hamilton says things that are reflective of his confidence, but due to PC crap, it is reported and read as arrogance. He's a young guy confident enough in himself that he's going to get that sexy Macca roadcar. And good on him.

And good on Schumi for speaking his mind. He's mellowed, obviously, otherwise he would never have said Vettel was any good, let alone pay him a compliment.

Rules were changed against Ferrari after Austria re team orders. The points system was changed. And there is every chance the move to single tyre supplier was part of the levelling as well.

I'm no Ferrari fan, but I also don't give a rats about being PC about things either. Drivers should say what ever they want, and then let their driving either confirm or deny what they have said. Would hate to see some of you lot commentating on boxers what with all their "i am the greatest" pouting and stuff.

And re the team orders rules, I shall leave you with this little quote:

"Gordons answer to that of course was the fan car, the (Brabham) BT46B. After its one race in Sweden and the outcry from the other teams, Bernie agreed not to run it again. COlin CHapman was apoplectic with rage. Two weeks later at Paul Ricard we were back in the BT46, and I gave Chapman and (Mario) Andretti the bird by putting it on pole. But on race morning, Bernie said to me, "I want to ask you a question. Niki's (Lauda) got more points than you in the championship, so if you're leading on the last lap and he's second, will you pull over and give him the win?"

"This was only halfway through the season, remember. I felt he'd sucked the oxygen out of me. Perhaps I should have lied, but I was naive enough to be honest and I said "No, Bernie, I can't do that". Thereafter it became clear, not in any tangible way but clear to me, that my days at Brabham were numbered"

John Watson, former Hexagon, Surtees, Penske, Brabham, and McLaren driver.

Darn cowards! Am I the one supposed to be the only one to say "I disagree"?

Yes, I am an "anti-anti-PC". Why? I've discussed this many times, mostly with Graham. I feel like anti-PC speeches always are a prologue to:

a) Unashamed expression of racism or some kind of discrimination (not your case, Handy). People tends to confuse "Geez, you are saying the same crap as always only in a different language" (which is why PC would be wrong, and I would agree with that) with "Geez, being anti-PC is cool, so I will say that I hate those mother****ing faggot tree hugger homeless niggas out there. See? I will not be nice to appease the PC crowd, am I cool or what?". That's something I've seen many times. And I think it sucks. Being tolerant, being pacifist, being diplomatic, being empathetic, being sensitive, being solidary...those are good things. **** them egotistic racist b#####ds who hide behind the anti-PC excuse to voice their hate.

B) Now to your particular case, Handy: double standards. MS started whining commenting that rules were changed to prevent him from winning. He is right. We all know that. It was almost explicit. Few days ago, Rubinho said he was prevented from winning by means of team orders. Everybody jumped at his throat. But he was right, too.

I am not accusing you of having double standards (we all have them, bias is a sneaky bitch, after all). I just wonder: do you think he had the right to voice his frustration as well? Many people did not.

Drivers should say whatever they want? Yes...and bear the consequences when they speak crap. Lewis speaks his mind? Yes. And his mind is as arrogant as it comes. I would usually point that Alonso is arrogant as well, to prevent the pseudo counter argument "Nando is arrogant, too" as if it would excuse Lewis in some way. But Lewis is even worse than Alonso. Perhaps he smiles brighter, but he is notoriously more arrogant. I am yet to see Nando coming down hanging from a wire ini a theatre as a god :P

So, in short: they can say what they want. We can say what WE want and criticize them. Speaking their minds doesn't mean that they are right.

And let's not confuse trying to be PC (which is an ultimately nice goal) with speaking PR crap (which is a commercial, not ethically aimed goal)

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A fine post sir. I must agree in full.

You need to quit with the dissappearing acts!

Your snake scared me off!

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Darn cowards! Am I the one supposed to be the only one to say "I disagree"?

Yes, I am an "anti-anti-PC". Why? I've discussed this many times, mostly with Graham. I feel like anti-PC speeches always are a prologue to:

a) Unashamed expression of racism or some kind of discrimination (not your case, Handy). People tends to confuse "Geez, you are saying the same crap as always only in a different language" (which is why PC would be wrong, and I would agree with that) with "Geez, being anti-PC is cool, so I will say that I hate those mother****ing faggot tree hugger homeless niggas out there. See? I will not be nice to appease the PC crowd, am I cool or what?". That's something I've seen many times. And I think it sucks. Being tolerant, being pacifist, being diplomatic, being empathetic, being sensitive, being solidary...those are good things. **** them egotistic racist b#####ds who hide behind the anti-PC excuse to voice their hate.

I am doing agreeings, and yessings, and noddings.

B) Now to your particular case, Handy: double standards. MS started whining commenting that rules were changed to prevent him from winning. He is right. We all know that. It was almost explicit. Few days ago, Rubinho said he was prevented from winning by means of team orders. Everybody jumped at his throat. But he was right, too.

I am not accusing you of having double standards (we all have them, bias is a sneaky bitch, after all). I just wonder: do you think he had the right to voice his frustration as well? Many people did not.

Drivers should say whatever they want? Yes...and bear the consequences when they speak crap. Lewis speaks his mind? Yes. And his mind is as arrogant as it comes. I would usually point that Alonso is arrogant as well, to prevent the pseudo counter argument "Nando is arrogant, too" as if it would excuse Lewis in some way. But Lewis is even worse than Alonso. Perhaps he smiles brighter, but he is notoriously more arrogant. I am yet to see Nando coming down hanging from a wire ini a theatre as a god :P

So, in short: they can say what they want. We can say what WE want and criticize them. Speaking their minds doesn't mean that they are right.

And let's not confuse trying to be PC (which is an ultimately nice goal) with speaking PR crap (which is a commercial, not ethically aimed goal)

Rubens was partly right but his comments were dumb as he lacked in the talent department first and foremost, and that was the cause of his suffering from team orders. He wasn't good enough (to get the team behind him), and he also had the option to depart. Whereas Schumi was too good, which was the cause of his 'suffering' from the rule changes. That's why Schumi's comments are less annoying and at least imo are fair enough, and it's why people didn't like Rubens comments, I think. Of course like you said people have the right to talk bollocks if they want to (I make use of that right regularly) and we have the right to criticise, which is lovely.

Everybody talks about arrogance being a bad thing, I'm not so sure, most successful people seem to have it, and I've been called arrogant so it must be a good thing. I do agree though Lewis is more arrogant than Alonso, maybe that's what makes him faster? Or was it team orders? :P

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Darn cowards! Am I the one supposed to be the only one to say "I disagree"?

Yes, I am an "anti-anti-PC". Why? I've discussed this many times, mostly with Graham. I feel like anti-PC speeches always are a prologue to:

a) Unashamed expression of racism or some kind of discrimination (not your case, Handy). [...]

b ) Now to your particular case, Handy: double standards.

Are you bored tonight? :P Anyway, you made the thread a lot more interesting to me. After all, I never cared whether a driver was arrogant (they usually are) or whether he speaks the truth (they rarely do). I'd add a third option:

c) A complaint about restrictions on free speech. Sometimes an opinion might be both reasonable and offensive, at least to some people. Opinions that might be both rational and offensive clearly have to be handled carefully but imho that doesn't mean they can never be uttered. PC aficionados often seem to be a kind of thought police, telling you (and everyone else) what a bad person you are - not for being prejudiced but for having a different opinion. To give an example, in my opinion our genes influence (but never determine) almost every aspect of our lives but it's not very politically correct to say that one factor in poor people being poor is genetic.

I guess you didn't really want to have another chat about this. So back on topic: you should just ignore Handy. Everyone knows all Kiwis are horrible racists and sheep shaggers. Where else do you think an insult like 'black sheep of the family' could arise?

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Are you bored tonight? :P Anyway, you made the thread a lot more interesting to me. After all, I never cared whether a driver was arrogant (they usually are) or whether he speaks the truth (they rarely do). I'd add a third option:

c) A complaint about restrictions on free speech. Sometimes an opinion might be both reasonable and offensive, at least to some people. Opinions that might be both rational and offensive clearly have to be handled carefully but imho that doesn't mean they can never be uttered. PC aficionados often seem to be a kind of thought police, telling you (and everyone else) what a bad person you are - not for being prejudiced but for having a different opinion. To give an example, in my opinion our genes influence (but never determine) almost every aspect of our lives but it's not very politically correct to say that one factor in poor people being poor is genetic.

I guess you didn't really want to have another chat about this. So back on topic: you should just ignore Handy. Everyone knows all Kiwis are horrible racists and sheep shaggers. Where else do you think an insult like 'black sheep of the family' could arise?

Wrong, I am alway up for a chat about PCness :lol:

As for the Kiwis, I agree. (I don't even know what is the stereotypical Kiwi, but let's just annoy poor Handy boy...whose words I twisted just to rant about something only you and I care for :lol: )

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:eusa_think: I think the stereotypical Kimi is a drunk guy on the toilet mumbling forsureithinkimdonebutyouhavetoasktheteamforsure.

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.

I guess you didn't really want to have another chat about this. So back on topic: you should just ignore Handy. Everyone knows all Kiwis are horrible racists and sheep shaggers. Where else do you think an insult like 'black sheep of the family' could arise?

1. Black Sheep:

Meaning

A worthless or disgraced member of a family.

Origin

The first record of 'black sheep' in a derogatory sense that I can find in print is from Charles Macklin's The man of the world, a comedy, 1786:

"O, ye villain! you - you - you are a black sheep; and I'll mark you."

It isn't entirely clear why black sheep were selected to symbolize worthlessness. Possibly it is just the linking of black things with bad things, which is a long standing allusion in English texts - black mood, black looks etc. It may also be because shepherds disliked black sheep as their fleeces weren't suitable for dying and so were worth less than those of white sheep.

So twas those Englishmen that gave rise to such a phrase

2. Sheep Shagging:

Don't knock what you ain't tried :P

3. Racism:

n. to drive a performance car, be it of formula basis or other, at extremes of performance and reliability, about a set course in an effort to complete the course before any other man or machine.

....wait a minute....do you mean that other racism....sort of like that other other white meat? (tastes like chicken)

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I think Graham is referring to rac-ism; people who are against the UK's breakdown service.

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