Renault To Leave F1

[Fed up 0]

*waits for the loud one to suddenly become a Mclaren-Lewis fan*

The church welcomes the lonely and displaced.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Alonso must be on his way to Ferrari! No need to be upset Andres!

[dribbler 6]

It would appear that recent stories citing further lay-offs at Enstone, and the Renault manufacturing base in general, bear the mark of truth. I am reliable informed by former colleagues that the team will withdraw from F1 in 2010 and customer engine manufacture will cease as of that date too. It has nothing to do with Nando's body weight - the world recession just has to get a lot worse before any recovery will be seen - it's the nature of such things.

Despite the cost-cutting initiatives introduced by FOTA and FIA, we are still talking in terms of many millions of pounds having to be found each year for teams to go racing. Suitable sponsors are falling like flies in a rainstorm. Bernie is hanging on to his millions for dear life as he awaits a hurricane of protest from TV broadcasters and his 'creme de la creme' race tracks are threatening closure. I fear that depite their 'bulldog' approach, Williams will fall victim to the crunch. I feel Toyota is a firm candidate too. STR will have to go, as will others and a 10-car grid looks like a real possibility for 2010. That won't work for anyone.

Honda was the best 'start-up' opportunity in the history of the sport and though many sniffed around no one has bitten the bullet. It had all the hallmarks of a bargain but the running costs were daunting in a fiscal climate where the future is disaster-laden, at best. Basically, advertising in such a medium appears frivolous to shareholders and as budgets are mutilated, the 'money' will stay right were it currently resides; for a very long time to come, I fear. The entire sport is at risk. We should savour this 2009 season - it may be the last for some time.

Well that's cheered me up no end. Thank God for beer, orgasms and motorbikes. It's all I have left.

[Rainmaster 7]

Well that's cheered me up no end. Thank God for beer, orgasms and motorbikes. It's all I have left.

You poor thing

[The Rumble Strip 0]

The F1 regulations state that we must have a minimum of fourteen entrants so there will be no races with ten cars.

[Jean Todt 4]

Well that's cheered me up no end. Thank God for beer, orgasms and motorbikes. It's all I have left.

[Insider 0]

The F1 regulations state that we must have a minimum of fourteen entrants so there will be no races with ten cars.

Of course, there won't be!

[The Rumble Strip 0]

Anyway, we must hope it doesn't happen.

[Jez 0]

Ahh what a s##tty first thread of the day to open. Maybe I'll start a nudes thread to lift our spirits. You'll allow a concession won't you Bruce? Economic climate an all?

[Max Mosley 2]

Are you kidding? Bruce will pose himself!

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Are you kidding? Bruce will pose himself!

That's OK as long as *you* don't pose nekid

[Insider 0]

Just an update. ING have announced they are on their bikes when this season is done. It's just another nail in Renault's coffin, I'm afraid. Though I have little sympathy with manufacturer teams, [they spend copiously without regulation] now is the time to to tell Bernie to take a funny run or give all involved a bigger go at the cookie jar. FOTA do not need FOM - period. If the teams break away, form the World Grand Prix Championship or something, the broadcasters will follow. On the other side of the coin, rather than constantly restricting design and innovation, the FIA should be looking at ways of making the sport more attractive to punters and sponsors. KERS is a placebo. We need an electric car that does 250 miles and hour, for chrissakes - the oil is running out - get it! If the FIA won't conform, let's kick them out too.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Flabbio should'nt sweat, all he needs to do is look at Andres' sig !

[Max Mosley 2]

Just an update. ING have announced they are on their bikes when this season is done. It's just another nail in Renault's coffin, I'm afraid. Though I have little sympathy with manufacturer teams, [they spend copiously without regulation] now is the time to to tell Bernie to take a funny run or give all involved a bigger go at the cookie jar. FOTA do not need FOM - period. If the teams break away, form the World Grand Prix Championship or something, the broadcasters will follow. On the other side of the coin, rather than constantly restricting design and innovation, the FIA should be looking at ways of making the sport more attractive to punters and sponsors. KERS is a placebo. We need an electric car that does 250 miles and hour, for chrissakes - the oil is running out - get it! If the FIA won't conform, let's kick them out too.

My feeling is rather that F1 is the placebo. The manufacturers are barely willing to develop the, very puny, KERS technology that is allowed now. I can't see them designing an entire electric F1 car very readily. I also feel that Max never gets the credit he deserves for encouraging what little progress can be made in creating a more relevant and forward-looking F1. It's the teams, not Max, that hold up progress.

And bad news for Renault is good news for me! Yes, I'm petty that way.

[mikathegreat2 2]

And bad news for Renault is good news for me! Yes, I'm petty that way.

You broke up with Andres???

[DOF_power 0]

My feeling is rather that F1 is the placebo. The manufacturers are barely willing to develop the, very puny, KERS technology that is allowed now. I can't see them designing an entire electric F1 car very readily. I also feel that Max never gets the credit he deserves for encouraging what little progress can be made in creating a more relevant and forward-looking F1. It's the teams, not Max, that hold up progress.

And bad news for Renault is good news for me! Yes, I'm petty that way.

Max Mosley's the main culprit for the no radical progress mentality. He banned the active suspensions, TC/LC, ABS, eCVTs, electro-magnetic valves, exotic materials, reduced the dimensions and even variable valve timing.

For the teams to develop something radical and connected to production cars, they need besides money also a lot of freedom with regards to dimensions, weight, materials and the holy electronics. All of witch Mosley has banned.

Mosley is a man that should be synonymous with b*, of unbelievable arrogance who blames and finds guild flaws everyone but himself of appearance and no substance.

Before Mosley took the presidency F1 had innovation, radical thinking, then he killed it and brought the tweaking mentality.

Mosley doesn't grasp what racing mean; historically all the great breakthroughs/innovations in (Grand Prix) racing lead to (incredibly) domination of those certain clever teams (Renault, FIAT, Bugatti, Afla, Mercedes, Auto Union, Cooper, Lotus, Williams, Ferrari).

His leveling-the-playing-field b* measures go in direct opposition with the innovation/great-breakthroughs/radical-thinking he proposes.

As you cannot have both.

[DOF_power 0]

Here's what some more enlightened people (actual engineers/designers) have to:

Batteries are good in one respect though - they can be charged from home or office easily, which saves a lot of cost compared to portable hydrocarbins. I imagine though that a flywheel could also be wound up by electricity by reversing things - but from home I imagine there would be some electrical conversion issues.

Cars do not have to worry about the aero downsides of a another flywheel in the car. I imagine one under the floor in an SUV, would improve the economy and limit the body, and it could have quite a wide diameter. On could have several of the things I guess. Heck you could put them in place of the disk brakes - because hybrids don't use conventional brakes, so why not replace the brakes with such devices? I recall Dr Porsche in WWI, put electric motors into wheels, and the wheels went onto railroad carriages, which saved on the shortage of locomotives.

F1 is troubled by other issues however. Weight, aero, heat, cost, energy release speed, all go against batteries. The fact that the batteries need to be replaced at huge cost every race is another negative. As is the great complexity in transporting them by plane.

It would have been much more interesting if the FIA had said 4 wheel energy input is allowed, ABS and TC is allowed, no limit to how much KERS energy you can use, and put a fuel limit on each race. I reckon the development costs would have been similar, but I bet all the major teams would have been using KERS in Melbourne.

...

.

.

-- The (stock) Prius system uses batteries comprehensively guaranteed by Toyota for 8 years or 80,000 miles. To achieve that life, the battery charging (and discharging to deliver power) is rigorously controlled by computers to look after them very carefully. Only about 10% of the batteries nominal capacity (think of a range of 45% to 55%) is used.

In F1 usage, the batteries will be discarded after each race, maybe after practice qualifying as well. Its about abusing and discarding batteries, not making them last longer.

The Prius batteries are heavier because they have to last for years, not hours.

All that said, the (stock) Prius doesn't use the lightest (laptop/cellphone lithium) batteries.

-- The (stock) Prius is not charged at home. Its normally just charged as KERS, by providing braking. (If the battery gets towards its low mark, the engine is called on to provide a little charge, to protect the batteries, which have to last for years, and to do that, batteries need nannying.

Interestingly, the current Prius has been 'hacked' to fool its electronics into taking advantage of custom-fitted bigger (usually expensive lithium type) batteries. And those upgrade packs ARE charged at home, so you use electricity rather than petrol. Expensive? Well, spend about

[Max Mosley 2]

You broke up with Andres???

Yeah. He used to withhold sex.

Before Mosley took the presidency F1 had innovation, radical thinking, then he killed it and brought the tweaking mentality.

Funny choice of words. Mosley took a 'novel and revolutionary' approach to safety, according to Prof. Sid Watkins, that inevitably restricted the freedom designers had. As time goes on, and technology improves, it is inevitable that the regulations get stricter. Max has made a huge difference to road safety all over the world.

The European Parliament also praises Max's work on environmental technology, saying the FIA is 'at the forefront of innovative environmental technology changes that offer potential CO2 reduction and efficiency saving spin-offs for all new cars'. In order to make F1 teams focus on green technology, you have to restrict development on other areas, as Max has done. 2009-spec KERS is a small step in the right direction, and even as soon as 2010 it will likely be more important in F1 and more relevant to road cars. These things have to be introduced gradually because the teams always resist progress, not Max.

Batteries are good in one respect though - they can be charged from home or office easily, which saves a lot of cost compared to portable hydrocarbins. I imagine though that a flywheel could also be wound up by electricity by reversing things - but from home I imagine there would be some electrical conversion issues.

http://www.totalf1.com/forums/index.php?ac...f=1&t=10632

Cars do not have to worry about the aero downsides of a another flywheel in the car. I imagine one under the floor in an SUV, would improve the economy and limit the body, and it could have quite a wide diameter. On could have several of the things I guess. Heck you could put them in place of the disk brakes - because hybrids don't use conventional brakes, so why not replace the brakes with such devices? I recall Dr Porsche in WWI, put electric motors into wheels, and the wheels went onto railroad carriages, which saved on the shortage of locomotives.

F1 is troubled by other issues however. Weight, aero, heat, cost, energy release speed, all go against batteries. The fact that the batteries need to be replaced at huge cost every race is another negative. As is the great complexity in transporting them by plane.

It would have been much more interesting if the FIA had said 4 wheel energy input is allowed, ABS and TC is allowed, no limit to how much KERS energy you can use, and put a fuel limit on each race. I reckon the development costs would have been similar, but I bet all the major teams would have been using KERS in Melbourne.

...

.

.

-- The (stock) Prius system uses batteries comprehensively guaranteed by Toyota for 8 years or 80,000 miles. To achieve that life, the battery charging (and discharging to deliver power) is rigorously controlled by computers to look after them very carefully. Only about 10% of the batteries nominal capacity (think of a range of 45% to 55%) is used.

In F1 usage, the batteries will be discarded after each race, maybe after practice qualifying as well. Its about abusing and discarding batteries, not making them last longer.

The Prius batteries are heavier because they have to last for years, not hours.

All that said, the (stock) Prius doesn't use the lightest (laptop/cellphone lithium) batteries.

-- The (stock) Prius is not charged at home. Its normally just charged as KERS, by providing braking. (If the battery gets towards its low mark, the engine is called on to provide a little charge, to protect the batteries, which have to last for years, and to do that, batteries need nannying.

Interestingly, the current Prius has been 'hacked' to fool its electronics into taking advantage of custom-fitted bigger (usually expensive lithium type) batteries. And those upgrade packs ARE charged at home, so you use electricity rather than petrol. Expensive? Well, spend about

[The Rumble Strip 0]

BMW seem to be shedding jobs as well.

How long will they go on.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

the teams always resist progress, not Max.

No, he just bans it

(or spanks it)

[DOF_power 0]

No, he just bans it

(or spanks it)

True.

[Insider 0]

Max Mosley's the main culprit for the no radical progress mentality. He banned the active suspensions, TC/LC, ABS, eCVTs, electro-magnetic valves, exotic materials, reduced the dimensions and even variable valve timing.

For the teams to develop something radical and connected to production cars, they need besides money also a lot of freedom with regards to dimensions, weight, materials and the holy electronics. All of witch Mosley has banned.

Mosley is a man that should be synonymous with b*, of unbelievable arrogance who blames and finds guild flaws everyone but himself of appearance and no substance.

Before Mosley took the presidency F1 had innovation, radical thinking, then he killed it and brought the tweaking mentality.

Mosley doesn't grasp what racing mean; historically all the great breakthroughs/innovations in (Grand Prix) racing lead to (incredibly) domination of those certain clever teams (Renault, FIAT, Bugatti, Afla, Mercedes, Auto Union, Cooper, Lotus, Williams, Ferrari).

His leveling-the-playing-field b* measures go in direct opposition with the innovation/great-breakthroughs/radical-thinking he proposes.

As you cannot have both.

Thank you/

[Insider 0]

Yeah. He used to withhold sex.

Funny choice of words. Mosley took a 'novel and revolutionary' approach to safety, according to Prof. Sid Watkins, that inevitably restricted the freedom designers had. As time goes on, and technology improves, it is inevitable that the regulations get stricter. Max has made a huge difference to road safety all over the world.

The European Parliament also praises Max's work on environmental technology, saying the FIA is 'at the forefront of innovative environmental technology changes that offer potential CO2 reduction and efficiency saving spin-offs for all new cars'. In order to make F1 teams focus on green technology, you have to restrict development on other areas, as Max has done. 2009-spec KERS is a small step in the right direction, and even as soon as 2010 it will likely be more important in F1 and more relevant to road cars. These things have to be introduced gradually because the teams always resist progress, not Max.

More nonsense. If you bothered to read your jumble of random, unsourced quotes you'd see they all contradict each other. One theme that is consistently expressed, however, is that F1 is not a good proving ground for many types of technology. Just because something is useful in F1 doesn't mean it's useful on your road car. Another theme is that F1 is moving gradually in the right direction. Of course, it's far too complicated for these alleged 'engineers' to understand the politics that necessitate said slow progress.

I was only advocating a smaller carbon footprint and more miles to the gallon!

[mikathegreat2 2]

A bit OT but heard that Credit Suisse are to leave BMW Sauber at the end of 2009, f*ckin bankers!

[The Rumble Strip 0]

This is true.