Oli 1 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 I hope we get to see some competent racing. I settle for that.Another random season would be too freaking boring... It would also help if we didn't have so many wet races. That always tends to randomise things. 2 or 3 a season is about right for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 It would also help if we didn't have so many wet races. That always tends to randomise things. 2 or 3 a season is about right for me. No, no. Changing weather, like other odd factors, are quite necessary. It reminds me of those people that want tracks to be bumpy. That is all good, in my opinion. What is not acceptable (as a fan of the sport) is that, regardless of the conditions, drivers suck and that they suck by executive decision. What is not acceptable is that you would be hard pressed to come up with races last season when Massa and Hamilton where actually racing against each other. What is not acceptable is that, last season, the three top teams had significantly better cars than the rest and _yet_ four out of those six drivers (when not _all_of_them_) managed to regulary screw up race after race. That is a freaking bore and a freaking disgrace considering how many able, experienced, tried, seasoned, good drivers are out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oli 1 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 Hamilton screwed up a lot, it's true. Massa's misfortunes were a lot more due to team blunders though. Most of the other drivers were just slow rather than error-prone. In any case it's the nature of the game that the front runners make more mistakes than the also-rans; they're pushing their cars harder. I remember the days when 7 or 8 car finishes were common. The drivers are as consistent as they've ever been, which is to say not very. That was why Schumacher dominated- he never made mistakes where others did. As has been said before- good seasons come and go. Last season wasn't great, but at least it wasn't all sewn up by Spa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 Maure is desperate. Ferrari deliberately sabotaged the man whose salary accounts for 10% of the entire team's budget. Why? Because their ex driver (how many laps did he do in the 2008 Ferrari?) is better friends with their number 2 driver. The fact that Kimi refused to work with the ex driver has absolutely nothing to do with it, nor the fact that Kimi 'shrugs off' a car not being suited to him while his team mate works hard to develop it. The fact that this was predicted entirely by Peter Sauber who knows both current Ferrari drivers (but admittedly not the all important man who hardly drives the car any more) is purely 'random chance'. There's an interesting article by Peter Windsor in one of the F1racing issues I bought.....Something to do with Kimi filling Schumie's shoes.....Something to do with the fact that Massa is Schumie protege, and the reason why Schumie would want Massa to win.... It is very interesting Steve and Graham, as weird as the theory sounds, it has extreme merit. It exposes Schumie's influence and the lenghts he'll go to achieve it. I think I did touch on the theory a few times.... Let's take a look at what happened last year...... 1. Kimi flies the first few races. We hear from Brundle that he is extremely happy and that every development to the car is suitable to him. That means the input he gives Ferrari is delivering. Schumie has tested in pre-season. I would say up to Canada, when Hamilton bumps into Kimi, he is reasonably happy with the car. Massa start is so bad there's talk of replacing the dude. 2. Schumie test again. Kimi then has bad races where he can't extract heat into a too- friendly chassis, all of a sudden... Suddenly the developments is all suitable to Massa. 4. Near the end of the season finally Kimi comes to grips with the car, like a rookie. Ferrari developments suddenly suit Kimi again. We hear from Micheal that during the season some developments were brought on that Kimi struggled with and that KImi should ask for help. Now if we look at point 1, that makes completely no sense. They were going so well with Kimi's imput earlier the year! There's something very fishy about what happened last year at Ferrari, and it all has to do with Schumie's involvement, no matter which angle you look at it. You guys should check the things he said. Anyway the main factor as to the whys and the hows have been removed, and I'm glad Ferrari has put a stop to it. Schumie won't test again this year! Halleluia!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ash1 0 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 There's an interesting article by Peter Windsor in one of the F1racing issues I bought.....Something to do with Kimi filling Schumie's shoes.....Something to do with the fact that Massa is Schumie protege, and the reason why Schumie would want Massa to win.... It is very interesting Steve and Graham, as weird as the theory sounds, it has extreme merit. It exposes Schumie's influence and the lenghts he'll go to achieve it. I think I did touch on the theory a few times....Let's take a look at what happened last year...... 1. Kimi flies the first few races. We hear from Brundle that he is extremely happy and that every development to the car is suitable to him. That means the input he gives Ferrari is delivering. Schumie has tested in pre-season. I would say up to Canada, when Hamilton bumps into Kimi, he is reasonably happy with the car. Massa start is so bad there's talk of replacing the dude. 2. Schumie test again. Kimi then has bad races where he can't extract heat into a too- friendly chassis, all of a sudden... Suddenly the developments is all suitable to Massa. 4. Near the end of the season finally Kimi comes to grips with the car, like a rookie. Ferrari developments suddenly suit Kimi again. We hear from Micheal that during the season some developments were brought on that Kimi struggled with and that KImi should ask for help. Now if we look at point 1, that makes completely no sense. They were going so well with Kimi's imput earlier the year! There's something very fishy about what happened last year at Ferrari, and it all has to do with Schumie's involvement, no matter which angle you look at it. You guys should check the things he said. Anyway the main factor as to the whys and the hows have been removed, and I'm glad Ferrari has put a stop to it. Schumie won't test again this year! Halleluia!!!!!! nice homework Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 No, no, blame me for it all,... nothing is funnier than seeing you guys bend over backwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 Interesting theory, Brad, very interesting! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 There's an interesting article by Peter Windsor in one of the F1racing issues I bought.....Something to do with Kimi filling Schumie's shoes..... What happened to 3.? Well, yes you could see it that way. This year will certainly tell. Also begs the question - why did it take so long for Kimi to recover? Or, you could see it that Kimi "lost his mojo" and Massa stepped up. To be honest none of the "top 4" blew my doors off last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 There's an interesting article by Peter Windsor in one of the F1racing issues I bought.....Something to do with Kimi filling Schumie's shoes.....Something to do with the fact that Massa is Schumie protege, and the reason why Schumie would want Massa to win.... It is very interesting Steve and Graham, as weird as the theory sounds, it has extreme merit. It exposes Schumie's influence and the lenghts he'll go to achieve it. I think I did touch on the theory a few times....Let's take a look at what happened last year...... 1. Kimi flies the first few races. We hear from Brundle that he is extremely happy and that every development to the car is suitable to him. That means the input he gives Ferrari is delivering. Schumie has tested in pre-season. I would say up to Canada, when Hamilton bumps into Kimi, he is reasonably happy with the car. Massa start is so bad there's talk of replacing the dude. 2. Schumie test again. Kimi then has bad races where he can't extract heat into a too- friendly chassis, all of a sudden... Suddenly the developments is all suitable to Massa. 4. Near the end of the season finally Kimi comes to grips with the car, like a rookie. Ferrari developments suddenly suit Kimi again. We hear from Micheal that during the season some developments were brought on that Kimi struggled with and that KImi should ask for help. Now if we look at point 1, that makes completely no sense. They were going so well with Kimi's imput earlier the year! There's something very fishy about what happened last year at Ferrari, and it all has to do with Schumie's involvement, no matter which angle you look at it. You guys should check the things he said. Anyway the main factor as to the whys and the hows have been removed, and I'm glad Ferrari has put a stop to it. Schumie won't test again this year! Halleluia!!!!!! Brad, with all due respect but this theory is heavily flawed! If something like this was so easy in F1, with the best and most professional drivers in the world, supported by the best engineers then what can I say? MS was seen laughing while holding a screwdriver near the suspension of the car I guess? You must give Kimi more credit than that! It must be more difficult to take away candy from a baby..!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 Yeah I don't buy it personally. The main thing is that Massa has a better attitude and works with the team (including Schumacher) better. Interesting theory though Brad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fed up 0 Report post Posted February 17, 2009 I don't entirely agree with you Brad, but I can see your point. It is indeed weird that Kimi, the reigning WDC, was struggling with a car that appeared more suited to the mediocre Massa. One would have thought that the development process would have been tailored to kimi rather than Massa given his points advantage and the fact that he was the reigning WDC. I don't buy into theories that a team will deliberately sabotaged one of it's own as the 'team' ultimately loses out in the end. I guess we'll have to add this mystery to the same mystery that earned kimi a WDC in the first place Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 I don't entirely agree with you Brad, but I can see your point. It is indeed weird that Kimi, the reigning WDC, was struggling with a car that appeared more suited to the mediocre Massa. One would have thought that the development process would have been tailored to kimi rather than Massa given his points advantage and the fact that he was the reigning WDC. I don't buy into theories that a team will deliberately sabotaged one of it's own as the 'team' ultimately loses out in the end.I guess we'll have to add this mystery to the same mystery that earned kimi a WDC in the first place The team did'nt deliberately sabotaged Kimi, Micheal did. I'm suggesting Micheal helped Massa, advised him and gave pointers to Ferrari engineers on how "better to develop the current car". It was Michael who told media that "they brought developments in that did not suit Kimi". I'm saying Bigchin deliberately influence decisionmaking to better the car to Massa's style, with the help of course, him having tested the cars..... The b#####ds!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 Well, yes you could see it that way. This year will certainly tell. well, thats all left for us to see.... yes, this year will tell.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TF109ftw 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 any idea what those things are on the side of the toyota???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 The team did'nt deliberately sabotaged Kimi, Micheal did. I'm suggesting Micheal helped Massa, advised him and gave pointers to Ferrari engineers on how "better to develop the current car". It was Michael who told media that "they brought developments in that did not suit Kimi". I'm saying Bigchin deliberately influence decisionmaking to better the car to Massa's style, with the help of course, him having tested the cars.....The b#####ds!!!!!!! The only one talking about sabotage is Murray... it's absurd to bother far beyond a laugh. What's evident is that Ferrari failed to support Kimi adequately and eventually this lost them the title. Kimi was as fast as ever... except in quali, which is absurd considering that one lap thunders are one of his best assets. Now, there is talk about his _endurance_ suffering due to other causes... In any case, there are no signs that Ferrari has acknowledged their mistake so our only hope is for Kimi to decide to battle on despite his team. It's sad for F1 fans that able drivers are pushed aside to give way to the well-connected... as if there were no enough mediocrity in the sport already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 any idea what those things are on the side of the toyota????God only knows! tbh I think the Toyota TF109 is the ugliest car so far! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 God only knows! tbh I think the Toyota TF109 is the ugliest car so far! Andres will agree, nothing beats the Renault at being ugly.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 Andres will agree, nothing beats the Renault at being ugly.... Brad, I disagree with that theory, in some races, Kimi had only himself to blame, if he finished well in all of them, he could have still become the world champion even without Massa's support. I am too lazy to point every situation. You know, I prefer Kimi to win than watching Shumi's boy winning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 Brad, I disagree with that theory, in some races, Kimi had only himself to blame, if he finished well in all of them, he could have still become the world champion even without Massa's support.I am too lazy to point every situation. You know, I prefer Kimi to win than watching Shumi's boy winning. We're not all here to agree with everyone else. I've made myself clear, and remember, you heard it here first.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 We're not all here to agree with everyone else. I've made myself clear, and remember, you heard it here first.... I was just making myself clear like you did! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 I vote Renault for ugliest. Have you seen the square thing at the front. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 The only one talking about sabotage is Murray... it's absurd to bother far beyond a laugh.What's evident is that Ferrari failed to support Kimi adequately and eventually this lost them the title. Kimi was as fast as ever... except in quali, which is absurd considering that one lap thunders are one of his best assets. Now, there is talk about his _endurance_ suffering due to other causes... In any case, there are no signs that Ferrari has acknowledged their mistake so our only hope is for Kimi to decide to battle on despite his team. It's sad for F1 fans that able drivers are pushed aside to give way to the well-connected... as if there were no enough mediocrity in the sport already. Maure, if the car didn't suit Kimi enough, then surely it was his fault as well... He could have (as he did towards the end of the season) worked his A## off with his engineers and make some changes. And as Abbas pointed out, he made a few serious driver errors that pushed him aside in the title chase.(Spa, Singapore etc). Being quick is not enough and perhaps work ethic is something Kimi has to work on. P.s. I make these comments being an outsider, just like you. We don't really know what really happened during the season. The suggestion that Schumi knew FM's and Kimi's driving style so well in order to propose some changes that would suit FM, during his two days of testing, doesn't hold much water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 any idea what those things are on the side of the toyota???? Yep, they're called wheels Well at least Toyota's designer has gone for the novel round design.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 Have you seen the square thing at the front. Yeah, that's called a wing. They're all the rage these days... Tch you guys, the off-season's been way too long - you're all beginning to forget what the bits are called... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted February 18, 2009 It's not an issue of theories... Yes it is. It's not fact. You cannot prove it is and neither can I. It therefore remains a theory. The fact is that Ferrari failed to support Kimi last season and screwed itself in the process. Utter bollocks. Not that it couldn't be true, just that you put yourself up as judge to deem it as fact. You thrive on the childish notion of driver favouritism like some playground obsession. Drivers have bad seasons and they have great seasons. Massa beat Kimi last year because he beat him. Argue the reasons all night, if you must. I saw Massa raise his game and Kimi go off the boil slightly, and that's it. Nothing more. Kimi is good and will be good again. This constant need to dissect the fact and pigeon hole it as some sort of Schumacher-led Massa leg-up, whilst interesting, is highly unlikely to be true. Everyone in the sport actually seems busy with the important things to me, not infant school mentality petulance. It's the fantacists on the outside who want it to be true. It's not a soap opera. Stop trying to make it one. It's really not as exciting as you make it out to be. A small gobling bloke with glasses and scruffy grey hair runs a poxy circus. A pervert oversees the safety stuff and does his best to introduce legislation that no one likes. It's a bunch of boring tw*ts with no personality driving around in circles being paid way too much. Some of them will do it well and sometimes they don't. They add up the points at the end of the year and one of them picks up a title, a wad of cash and a shiny trophy. A bunch of c*ck suckers debate it endlessly over the internet. None of them know what really goes on so they guess, get it right and get it wrong. The people on the inside laugh at them and rightly so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites