Pre-season Testing

[maure 1]

Of course it was and it will be. Favouritism is a factor many great champions have had to deal with. It seems we can't use that word when we talk about some particular driver or team.

We can talk about particular drivers because in some cases the favoritism defies reason and belief. This is the case of MS and Hamilton. Their teammates are (were) treated and dismissed with incredible disrespect because of the status of the "star", a title that is only justified in MS case... if even.

You should know about this better than me because you are an Alonso fan. Isn't it true that even the seasons when he won his two titles, Alonso still had to beat his teammates fair and square? Things might have changed now for Alonso but since Piquet hardly ever makes it into the final quali it is impossible to tell. My assumption is that Alonso finally has the status that Hamilton was gifted. If Renault is up there and they screw Piquet like Kova has/is, the competition will suffer.

I would think that most teams offer their drivers equal opportunity at the start of the season, and then focus more on the winningest driver as the season progresses. Its not really favouritism, it's common sense. As for the teams who do practice favouritism from from the first race on, that's just tough luck and a bit of a shame for the driver who loses out. Historically though, this has often worked out well for the teams in terms of winning titles. So it's not gonna change anytime soon. Not even if people whine about it on F1 forums.

Unfortunately, McLaren is not one of those teams. If it were FI or TR, it would matter naught. But McLaren is a top team and this situation worsens the competition.

In 2007 with Mac I agree it cost them the title. They should have favoured Alonso and told Lewis to STFU.

In 2008 Heikki was nowhere. Favoritism may have occurred but even with equal opportunity we all know Lewis would have spanked him. He's a mediocre driver looking for an excuse as to why he's underperforming.

As for Ferrari, even as a Kimi fan I have to admit I'm aware his head isn't always in the right place; that's part of the reason I like him. Favoritism may have played a part, but not a huge one.

BMW? Surely it was their failure to continue working on the 08 car which cost them the title? Where were points taken from Kubica by favoritism?

Favouring Alonso might have given them the championship (chances are so). However, fair driver management would have improved the competition for all of us.

In regards to Kova, he never got a chance until mid-season and, then, only once. It would be unfair to rule him out as a matter of principle because McLaren does.

[AleHop 0]

You should know about this better than me because you are an Alonso fan. Isn't it true that even the seasons when he won his two titles, Alonso still had to beat his teammates fair and square? Things might have changed now for Alonso but since Piquet hardly ever makes it into the final quali it is impossible to tell. My assumption is that Alonso finally has the status that Hamilton was gifted. If Renault is up there and they screw Piquet like Kova has/is, the competition will suffer.

Alonso had to beat his teammates like most of the Champions had to do in the past. But about last year, when a driver is much more consistent and faster than his team mate then favouritism is understandable but it still there. Hamilton-Kovalainen or Alonso-Piquet are two examples of that.

In 2007 McLaren decided to rob us Hamilton vs. Alonso in equal terms. In 2008 Kubica could have won his 1st WDC if Mr Mario had kept 2008 development on. Ferrari did too many mistakes during the whole championship that damaged Kimi and Massa equally. If the design of the car changed to suit Massa better it is another stupid thing a team can do about favouritism.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

BMW? Surely it was their failure to continue working on the 08 car which cost them the title? Where were points taken from Kubica by favoritism?

I think it was the other way round, they bum Kubica so they cost Heidfeld the Canada win by ensuring that Kubica got in front.

In 2007 McLaren decided to rob us Hamilton vs. Alonso in equal terms.

On what basis do you make such a statement??

Ron Dennis clearly had more of an affection for Lewis, but they both had equal equipment and Alonso should've dominated Hamilton from the start, but instead he could only barely keep up with him in the very first race.

[Max Mosley 2]

It depends what you understand by "performance". If by that you mean high speeds, then you are in the wrong sport. Switch to marathons or synchronized swimming.

But it is evident you are just pretending not to get it. You, like everyone else, understand that safety features involve things like the capacity of the c#ckpit to survive crashes at high speeds, requiring the drivers to wear protective gear of certain quality and, among other examples, minimums concercing the stress that aero elements must be able to widthstand so that chunks don't break off the chassis, fly about, and cause an accident or hit someone. It's common sense.

Alas, the limitations of safety technology available for F1 are far greater than those for the performance side. If you freed up development as dramatically as you seem to want to, you couldn't keep the racing safe and sensible no matter how hard you tried.

Some drivers do. Most don't... for many reasons, not only favouritism.

Simply being in an F1 guarantees nothing.

Lost in the ether?

One thing is to drive for a different team and another to not be allowed to race your teammate because the boss is backing him. You understand this as does everyone else.

As I said earlier, I think it is legitimate for McLaren (and any other team) to do as they please. The problem for me is that is lowers the quality of the competition, and when the top teams are compromissed and unrepentant (as they are)... another random season await us unless the midfield saves the day.

Not really. Team bosses 'back' some drivers over others for similar reasons and with similar effect on 'the competition' to how they hire some drivers over others in the first place.

Drivers are essential to the car's development and setup! I thought that was common ground!

It depends. The common ground is simply that Alonso is definitely better at it than Kimi. Therefore the Alonso fans think it's essential whereas the Kimi fans think a driver's work ethic is irrelevant. We Lewis fans reserve judgement until we are sure that Lewis is the best at that too.

In 2007 with Mac I agree it cost them the title. They should have favoured Alonso and told Lewis to STFU.

Isn't this slightly different though? I thought Alonso was unhappy early on because he was basically setting up Lewis's car and then having to beat someone on track who had access to all his data - in other words Alonso thought he was entitled to benefit from favouritism and complained about the lack of favouritism? Obviously this changed later on when driver and team fell out.

Basically I can't see a good example of favouritism being used inappropriately as Maure et al. suggest. The best example is in fact that McLaren should have used more favouritism in 2007, as above.

I think it was the other way round, they bum Kubica so they cost Heidfeld the Canada win by ensuring that Kubica got in front.

On what basis do you make such a statement??

Ron Dennis clearly had more of an affection for Lewis, but they both had equal equipment and Alonso should've dominated Hamilton from the start, but instead he could only barely keep up with him in the very first race.

2 rite m8.

[maure 1]

Alonso had to beat his teammates like most of the Champions had to do in the past. But about last year, when a driver is much more consistent and faster than his team mate then favouritism is understandable but it still there. Hamilton-Kovalainen or Alonso-Piquet are two examples of that.

In 2007 McLaren decided to rob us Hamilton vs. Alonso in equal terms. In 2008 Kubica could have won his 1st WDC if Mr Mario had kept 2008 development on. Ferrari did too many mistakes during the whole championship that damaged Kimi and Massa equally. If the design of the car changed to suit Massa better it is another stupid thing a team can do about favouritism.

Can you really rule out Kova this fast?

I could be wrong but the way I remember it, when Kova was given his one chance to qualify well he got a pole and left Hamilton in the dust. One for one. On that statistic, Kova might have been the best qualifier on the grid last year. We'll never know because McLaren never made that "mistake" again. But, for the sake of argument, how many pole could Kova have gotten if had been treated fairly the first ten races? And considering the value of poles, how many races could he have won? It is easy to forget that Hamilton wasted a few of his poles... poles that we know were artificially fabricated by McLaren.

And, come to think of it, didn't Kova outqualify Hamilton two, three, (four?) times at the start of the season... despite a heavier fuel load? It is sad how, over the season, McLaren manages to worsen the performance of Hamilton's teammates.

[maure 1]

I think it was the other way round, they bum Kubica so they cost Heidfeld the Canada win by ensuring that Kubica got in front.

On what basis do you make such a statement??

Ron Dennis clearly had more of an affection for Lewis, but they both had equal equipment and Alonso should've dominated Hamilton from the start, but instead he could only barely keep up with him in the very first race.

When RD was telling the world that "they" (his team, McLaren) was racing _against_ Alonso, you were...

[Quiet One 15]

I think that...oops, sorry, I thought this was 2009...

[maure 1]

Alas, the limitations of safety technology available for F1 are far greater than those for the performance side. If you freed up development as dramatically as you seem to want to, you couldn't keep the racing safe and sensible no matter how hard you tried.

You claim.

The fact is that the spec madness has nothing to do with safety and serves other ends (e.g KERS). To pretend now that it is all about safety is... a joke. But a bad one. Try harder.

Lost in the ether?

This applies perfectly to your next "argument".

Not really. Team bosses 'back' some drivers over others for similar reasons and with similar effect on 'the competition' to how they hire some drivers over others in the first place.

Maybe it is similar to _you_ but this only speaks about your appreciation of the sport.

The rest of us saw a guy doing donut after donut in the rain and another one that needed to have his teammate in shackles... those two fought for the championhsip. The lucky one won.

I've seen better competitions. Far better.

[maure 1]

I think that...oops, sorry, I thought this was 2009...

The wisdom of your post...

Our hopes lie in the midfield.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

poles that we know were artificially fabricated by McLaren.

Thats very harsh, he still had to go out and get the pole position!

When RD was telling the world that "they" (his team, McLaren) was racing _against_ Alonso, you were...

Yes I remember that, but all it does is show that Ron loves Lewis, no evidence that Lewis got any better equipment or any better chance of winning. Alonso wasnt good enough, he needs to be in his pampered comfort zone at Renault.

[Max Mosley 2]

Yes and even then he almost lost it when Piquet still managed to beat him.

[mikathegreat2 2]

I think that...oops, sorry, I thought this was 2009...

[Max Mosley 2]

So funny!

Wait... I thought this was 2009?

[mikathegreat2 2]

So funny!

Wait... I thought this was 2009?

Thanks to your good friend, nearly every active topic is about 2008 & favouritism!

[Max Mosley 2]

Andr

[mikathegreat2 2]

Andr

[Medilloni 6]

..........the member might start making a big post.................

Sheesh, I'm feeling childish today..........

[mikathegreat2 2]

Sheesh, I'm feeling childish today..........

Not you either! This member constantly makes big posts, you only do on Fridays!

[Medilloni 6]

Not you either! This member constantly makes big posts, you only do on Fridays!

Ahh. But if I made a big post more often. others might feel intimidated by them, and try to slap them down. I draw the line at being flicked with a wet towel

So, for my small post (on thread!), when you look at '09 cars getting sorted for this season, here's a view of the type of aero restrictions they're working to: http://www.f1technical.net/features...81208b08ffbcf61

[AleHop 0]

Can you really rule out Kova this fast?

I'm not saying Kova isn't good. He did a very good end season in 2007 and he is fast which is a very important skill when you have to deal with Mr. Hamilton. I'm sure Kova could have done a much better season if they had raced in equal terms within the team. But they had picked Hamilton in advance for the title, from race 1. TBH, it is what they should have done in 2007 with Alonso but Hamilton made a very good start of the season a Ron (+media, etc.) thought why not? Even that Alonso managed to battle for the title up to the last corner and that cost Hamilton&McLaren the sparkling glory. Kova never managed to do that which is understandable but he knows he can match Hamilton and he expects a completely different situation this year. He is completely wrong!

[Quiet One 15]

Geez, no need to go all over again with 2008 season (or 2007). ***WARNING: SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE**** Why did I type till my fingers bled in my blog about the 2008 season race by race huh? ***END OF SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE***

[AleHop 0]

Geez, no need to go all over again with 2008 season (or 2007). ***WARNING: SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE**** Why did I type till my fingers bled in my blog about the 2008 season race by race huh? ***END OF SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE***

Oh, this is a Pre-season Testing thread. I'm testing how are things going with 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. You could help testing the Schumi era from 2000 to 2004.

[elgo 1]

Just 1 month for Oz!I'm starting to feel the F1 addiction again.

When RD was telling the world that "they" (his team, McLaren) was racing _against_ Alonso, you were...

I was having a Sh#t.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Ahh. But if I made a big post more often. others might feel intimidated by them, and try to slap them down. I draw the line at being flicked with a wet towel

So, for my small post (on thread!), when you look at '09 cars getting sorted for this season, here's a view of the type of aero restrictions they're working to: http://www.f1technical.net/features...81208b08ffbcf61

OK you idiots, it's maure! *whips out anti-insult M16*

[tifosi too! 0]

Geez, no need to go all over again with 2008 season (or 2007). ***WARNING: SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE**** Why did I type till my fingers bled in my blog about the 2008 season race by race huh? ***END OF SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE***

But, but there is nothing to talk about this year ! There is no action at the test tracks, the season still needs more than a month to start !

I suggest we start from 1930 onwards, in DOF's thread! There is plenty of time !