maure 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 The biggest problem with all of this is not the impact it will have on racing, or even the results. It is more that FIA:- Are yet again screwing with the rules with no clear rationale - Have an end in mind and will continue to screw with the rules/invent penalties to make things fit - Feel that they can liberally screw with the rules again and again and again This for me is what the real problem is. Don't kid yourself for one minute that this is the end of it. Indeed. And just wait until it sinks in that there will be two different regulations in play from 2010 on... Again, our only hope is that the teams get finally fed up and take this year to create their own competition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 PS.- There is some kind of war of power within F1. Are FIA members going to change competitions like WRC, GP2, WTCC... as they have changed F1? Can Max answer the question above. There is, of course, a _second_ reason for the change (some would say "first and only")... can you really not guess which kind of team will be benefitted the most by this change in scoring? This season it could be BRAWN GP, probably will be, but in a normal season Ferrari is the candidate. The biggest problem with all of this is not the impact it will have on racing, or even the results. It is more that FIA:- Are yet again screwing with the rules with no clear rationale - Have an end in mind and will continue to screw with the rules/invent penalties to make things fit - Feel that they can liberally screw with the rules again and again and again This for me is what the real problem is. Don't kid yourself for one minute that this is the end of it. Short and straight to the point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 This season it could be BRAWN GP, probably will be, but in a normal season Ferrari is the candidate. That's half the answer... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 That's half the answer... If you are asking for a driver then it would be Hamilton. At least while he's along with Kovalainen as a mere companion. Ferrari have two competitive drivers that could share the wins but that's just theory because last year would have been for Massa with the new rules. I think Ecclestone wants new drivers in scene. Popular drivers like Button fighting for the championship can produce a juicy TV audience rise. Look at the article below. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73761 What teams and drivers will be the worst affected? Probably all but BMW and Renault the most. Kubica and Alonso are two consistent, regular and reliable drivers but their cars are hardly winner cars. I want to mention Toyota with Trulli and RBR with Vettel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Indeed. The change effectively knocks out all but the very top teams. Moreover, one-man teams (at this point, McLaren and Renault) have huge advantages since even a single win by the second driver would be too many. Last, it makes it possible for irregular drivers with a good car to have a shot at it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 You're right but the change is quite small in practice. The old WDC system also made it difficult for anyone outside the top teams to be champion and the budget capping option is going to be there to help smaller teams. One-man teams definitely gain a large advantage from the new rules, perhaps especially this year if the cars are more diverse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Well, Kubica was in the mix until quite late in the game thanks to the points system and the goofups of the title contenders. From now on, a performance like Kubica's would be irrelevant. So the title fight gets even smaller than it was, if possible. That said, I don't expect much of a change in the final results either... I am curious, though, how the drivers will react come Australia. Will they really try to win no matter what? Will they refuse to settle for a second or third? It would be an improvement, wouldn't you say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackgarrett 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 So 2nd is now really 1st of the loosers. So what wins are for champions and points are for constuctors/2nd drivers. It would suprise me if they say they also inplemented this to last years system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Well, Kubica was in the mix until quite late in the game thanks to the points system and the goofups of the title contenders. From now on, a performance like Kubica's would be irrelevant. So the title fight gets even smaller than it was, if possible.That said, I don't expect much of a change in the final results either... I am curious, though, how the drivers will react come Australia. Will they really try to win no matter what? Will they refuse to settle for a second or third? It would be an improvement, wouldn't you say. Yep I agree. I'm quite optimistic that we'll see an improvement in racing, in terms of more risks being taken on track and with different fuel/tyre/reliability strategies. What will be really funny to watch is how Ferrari cope with having two good drivers very likely taking wins off each other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 The rules have officially established two classes of drivers: runners and supporters. Kimi-Felipe? Kubica-Heidfeld? Forget it. It's either one or the other. Alonso-Piquet? Hammy-Kovy? That's the way to go. Even more so, as the WCC is still based on the old points systems, some points lost by the supporters in a race are not as important as a win lost by the number 1 driver in that same race. A hypothetical scenario: Driver A from team X is on the lead. Driver B from team Y is a number 2 driver. Driver A is about to lap B. If I was the team strategist I would say "Take A out of the road!". What is the worst that could happen? Driver B being penalized? Who cares? He will never win the championshiop anyways. Yes, he might lose some points the team could use for the WCC, but like I said, he can always make up for the lost ground in some other race, while driver A could never get back his lost win. I can't think of no less than two team principals (well...former team principals now) that would do that without any guilt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 So 2nd is now really 1st of the loosers. So what wins are for champions and points are for constuctors/2nd drivers.It would suprise me if they say they also inplemented this to last years system. Yes I thought they'd apply the new system to all places. So one 2nd place would trump any number of 3rds etc. That would have encouraged good racing all through the pack. Perhaps they thought you get some good racing somewhere in the mid field anyway, whereas often you don't get it right at the front. Or perhaps the results of the underlings would be too skewed by this new system and one fluky result. Who knows... The rules have officially established two classes of drivers: runners and supporters. Kimi-Felipe? Kubica-Heidfeld? Forget it. It's either one or the other. Alonso-Piquet? Hammy-Kovy? That's the way to go. Even more so, as the WCC is still based on the old points systems, some points lost by the supporters in a race are not as important as a win lost by the number 1 driver in that same race.A hypothetical scenario: Driver A from team X is on the lead. Driver B from team Y is a number 2 driver. Driver A is about to lap B. If I was the team strategist I would say "Take A out of the road!". What is the worst that could happen? Driver B being penalized? Who cares? He will never win the championshiop anyways. Yes, he might lose some points the team could use for the WCC, but like I said, he can always make up for the lost ground in some other race, while driver A could never get back his lost win. I can't think of no less than two team principals (well...former team principals now) that would do that without any guilt. Worried about McLaren? Surely Flabio already has this covered anyway... Actually, more seriously, you make a good point as always. I've always liked the idea of 2 top drivers per team (pseudo-specs?) but with Alonso's departure from McLaren I don't see it happening anyway for a long time. The only exception is Ferrari, and that is really by accident: no one expected Felipe to have a chance. The best way to fix this problem would be to scrap the teams. For now, it will really be interesting to see how late each team waits to favour one driver. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DOF_power 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Well, Kubica was in the mix until quite late in the game thanks to the points system and the goofups of the title contenders. From now on, a performance like Kubica's would be irrelevant. So the title fight gets even smaller than it was, if possible.That said, I don't expect much of a change in the final results either... I am curious, though, how the drivers will react come Australia. Will they really try to win no matter what? Will they refuse to settle for a second or third? It would be an improvement, wouldn't you say. It eliminates the issues of mistakes for the one with most wins, but still punishes everyone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Worried about McLaren? Surely Flabio already has this covered anyway... Actually, Flab was one of the team principals I was thinking of Too bad Piquet is not reliable enough even to crash properly. Suddenly DC seems like a good addition to any team... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 A hypothetical scenario: Driver A from team X is on the lead. Driver B from team Y is a number 2 driver. Driver A is about to lap B. If I was the team strategist I would say "Take A out of the road!". What is the worst that could happen? Driver B being penalized? Who cares? He will never win the championshiop anyways. Yes, he might lose some points the team could use for the WCC, but like I said, he can always make up for the lost ground in some other race, while driver A could never get back his lost win. New rules bring a lot of questions and of course none of them have been properly analysed by FIA. We had a very interesting scenario in Singapore last year. I think they changed the rule about the pit closed but if you've pitted before the SC is deployed you still can get a big advantage or even take the lead. Can we expect more crashes a la Piquet in Singapure? SC can change the outcome of the season more than ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Too bad Piquet is not reliable enough even to crash properly. Suddenly DC seems like a good addition to any team... Yes. I read in Autosport that Alonso's technical prowess (not to mention his generosity) is so great he does all the testing work for Piquet too. Hence last week's race simulation with scheduled crash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Actually, Flab was one of the team principals I was thinking of Too bad Piquet is not reliable enough even to crash properly. Suddenly DC seems like a good addition to any team... Or Ralf... funny thought either way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 The rules have officially established two classes of drivers: runners and supporters. Kimi-Felipe? Kubica-Heidfeld? Forget it. It's either one or the other. Alonso-Piquet? Hammy-Kovy? That's the way to go. Even more so, as the WCC is still based on the old points systems, some points lost by the supporters in a race are not as important as a win lost by the number 1 driver in that same race.A hypothetical scenario: Driver A from team X is on the lead. Driver B from team Y is a number 2 driver. Driver A is about to lap B. If I was the team strategist I would say "Take A out of the road!". What is the worst that could happen? Driver B being penalized? Who cares? He will never win the championshiop anyways. Yes, he might lose some points the team could use for the WCC, but like I said, he can always make up for the lost ground in some other race, while driver A could never get back his lost win. I can't think of no less than two team principals (well...former team principals now) that would do that without any guilt. Yep. Taking out a rival has never paid out so handsomely. Nonetheless it is one of those things (together with nazi-orgies) that some will be allowed to do while others will pay dearly for simply thinking of... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 It eliminates the issues of mistakes for the one with most wins, but still punishes everyone else. And who gains the most from that... no, no, don't give it away. Let's keep some mistery in our relationship... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Yep I agree. I'm quite optimistic that we'll see an improvement in racing, in terms of more risks being taken on track and with different fuel/tyre/reliability strategies. What will be really funny to watch is how Ferrari cope with having two good drivers very likely taking wins off each other. More risks = more incidents = more bizarre stewards decisions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 I'm apopleptic. Incandescent. Livid, even. What are those morons at the WMSC thinking of??? Aaaaaaarrrgh. And such.So, when you've won enough races to seal the WDC, what's the point of turning up? Cretins. I fully agree. The facebook group is pointless but if there was an actual petition being sent to WMSC, I'd defintely sign. The vast majority of us are wholly against this stupid, stupid idea. Ergo, we can assume that the majority of F1 fans worldwide are against the idea too. I agree with Alonso. All these constant rule changes are bad for the sport and it really does make me sad. I just hope and pray that this year's WDC would've still been WDC under the 'normal' points system, cos then I wont have anything to be angry about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 bollocks - pure simple bollocks nothing else to say Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 ahhhh - yes there is... Let's have look at what else they slipped in there: "The FIA will publish the weights of all cars after qualifying at each Event." Bang goes any kind of poker game between pit crews. The media wanted to know the fuel loads and now everyone will. Granted - at least its after qualification, but still, it gives away everyone's strategies before the race has even started. "All drivers eliminated in qualifying must make themselves available for media interviews immediately after the end of each session. Any driver retiring before the end of the race must make himself available for media interviews after his return to the paddock. All drivers who finish the race outside the top three must make themselves available immediately after the end of the race for media interviews." Oh goody. Bring on the circus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaky2 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Argh!! Actually I read about the fuel loads but I forgot because there was so much else written in there... but for me it's one of the biggest f*ck ups! Why should teams inform us of their strategies? Would anyone get a heart attack if he didn't expect Hamilton to pit last but he did? That's just one more fun part taken from us... And about the interviews, bleh to them... Drivers end up conceding interviews anyway, let them live!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 And drivers will have to publish their penis size before, during and after the race. For that purpose teams will have to spend billions in the design of an electronic gadget atached to the driver's c#ck and... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Yet another negative driver reaction, this time its Rubinho: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
