karlosb 0 Report post Posted March 31, 2009 I wonder how true this actually is or is Button trying to cool the fire a bit ! "When we return to Europe a lot of people are going to have (new) aero packages and they'll be on our tail." ------------- Get your kids into F1 ! www.francoandformulafun.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aussief1 4 Report post Posted March 31, 2009 It's true, and as soon as the FIA rule on the diffuser situation, some of the non diffuser teams will be right up with them if not infront of BrawnGP - But Brawn will have a major aero update due then as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted March 31, 2009 No reason to doubt that. Cars that are behind at the first race do usually introduce a major upgrade for the European season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted March 31, 2009 Welcome karlosb! In response to your sig, there's an F1 theme park in Dubai or Abu Dhabi, Ben can you confirm which city?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jez 0 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Hopefully the mercedes power plant keeps them at the sharp end all season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 It's true, and as soon as the FIA rule on the diffuser situation, some of the non diffuser teams will be right up with them if not infront of BrawnGP - But Brawn will have a major aero update due then as well. Brawn have power in reserve, I have no doubt about it. To have gone out in Melly and smashed everyone in sight would have been OTT - and, not necessary. If you look at the facts, JB lost a sizeable lead under the first SC plus another five seconds on his last pit stop. Even with option boot on in the final stint, i believe he would have won by at least 10 secs, without those circumstances and the Kubica/Vettel silliness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 A Brawn GP member of staff said that they were sandbagging a little in Oz and had more speed in reserve. How long before McLaren start engineering in engine faults? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karlosb 0 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Welcome karlosb! In response to your sig, there's an F1 theme park in Dubai or Abu Dhabi, Ben can you confirm which city?? Thank you ------------- Get your kids into F1 ! www.francoandformulafun.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aussief1 4 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Brawn have power in reserve, I have no doubt about it. To have gone out in Melly and smashed everyone in sight would have been OTT - and, not necessary. If you look at the facts, JB lost a sizeable lead under the first SC plus another five seconds on his last pit stop. Even with option boot on in the final stint, i believe he would have won by at least 10 secs, without those circumstances and the Kubica/Vettel silliness. Yeah I guess yuor right. Ross being the wiley old fox he is, would know better than to show exactly the outright race pace of the car without the need. But still as soon as we have clarification on the infamous diffuser issue other teams will bridge the gap. How long it will take is the interesting part I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 A Brawn GP member of staff said that they were sandbagging a little in Oz and had more speed in reserve.How long before McLaren start engineering in engine faults? Button's Merc engine lasted 1000 or so miles before blowing up so reliability should'nt be an issue but we'll see! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Yeah I guess yuor right. Ross being the wiley old fox he is, would know better than to show exactly the outright race pace of the car without the need.But still as soon as we have clarification on the infamous diffuser issue other teams will bridge the gap. How long it will take is the interesting part I guess. Everybody is ranting on about that bloody diffuser. Did nobody notice how good the BGP001 was in slow corners, where the diffuser is doing bugger all? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pumpdoc 2 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Everybody is ranting on about that bloody diffuser. Did nobody notice how good the BGP001 was in slow corners, where the diffuser is doing bugger all? Fecking indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goddamn kids. But to get bacxk to the op, 2 wins do not a great driver make. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Yeah I guess yuor right. Ross being the wiley old fox he is, would know better than to show exactly the outright race pace of the car without the need. Maybe that's why he went mental at Rubens when he was chasing the pack during the safety car period! Everybody is ranting on about that bloody diffuser. Did nobody notice how good the BGP001 was in slow corners, where the diffuser is doing bugger all? The Brawn looks good everywhere. How much difference the car makes up in slow or fast corners is open to debate and beyond my limited understanding of aerodynamics. It's unusual for a great car (which the Brawn undoubtedly is) to look good when going fast then look awful going slow anyway. I'm not so sure that the other teams will catch up quickly anyway, for a number of reasons. Firstly, there is the lack of testing. Secondly, even if they do all bolt on Brawn-esque diffusers they will have to re-design the whole back end of their cars as a modified diffuser will change the airflow characteristics and that will take time. Lastly, as Russ implies, it's not just a trick diffuser that is giving Brawn great pace; it's a great design out of the box. That they have bullet proof reliability and can take a one-two, even with fluffed pitstops and dodgem car antics will be an added worry for the others who are already sore from head scratching. Wonderful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted April 1, 2009 Everybody is ranting on about that bloody diffuser. Did nobody notice how good the BGP001 was in slow corners, where the diffuser is doing bugger all? It seems to be a great car everywhere. They improved last year's overall times after such a big change of rules but their main competitive advantage is the *diffuser. Oh and no messing with KERS. *Which is nearly the whole design of the car Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karlosb 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 have to admit wasnt sure if button could ' step up ' but early signs are saying he pssibly can ------------- Get your kids into F1 ! www.francoandformulafun.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 Right, right. The fact that all three Toyota, Williams, and BGP are up there (from nowhere) is just a coincidence. Nothing to do with the selectively-allowed difusser, at all. And to make an even more solid case, do claim that the BGP is even faster than it shows it is. That helps heaps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 Oh dear. After a promising few days you've wobbled off into fantasy land again. Such a shame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 On the topic of the diffusers, there's clearly more to the BGP car than that. But perhaps half of their advantage comes from the diffuser alone. And welcome Karlosb! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 On the topic of the diffusers, there's clearly more to the BGP car than that. But perhaps half of their advantage comes from the diffuser alone. For sure Honda/Brawn can be proud of it (or maybe not so). But anyway, some other teams were keen on developing similar diffusers and they were told a different and nearly opposite thing in respect of the others. It's not fantasy, it's everywhere on the newspapers. It's a fact! The big teams should be embarrased, Red Bull have got a much better car than theirs and only BMW might be close to them. That's nothing to do with the diffuser and I agree that Ferrari, McLaren and Renault have done a poor job this season. Once most of the teams have their own golden diffuser we'll see a very interesting season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 Alehop, do you or I know that the RBR/Renault proposal was the same as the BGP/Williams/Toyota proposal? No, we don't. We don't know because we haven't seen them. We've had Flabbio and Christian making comments to the press (oh, and Super Mario of course) but I've not heard much from Bob Bell, or Pat Symonds, on the matter. Tech heads in other words, qualified to comment. And what do you make of Mr Brawn's comment that he proposed tighter regulation of that area over a year ago to stop such a situation arising, but that his proposal was rejected by the other teams? My own view is that it's legal. As would RBRs and Renault's have been, were they indeed the same type of solution. I think that their idea was maybe missing a trick somewhere along the line, that put it outside legality. Something that others noticed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 I'm not sure legality comes into it as such. Ferrari and McLaren are not doing so well this season as they did not develop 2009 cars last season when all the others did, hence the new higher order and Red Bull to a lesser extent have stolen a march on the so called big four. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 Agreed, but I'm really referring to the mad Italian's outbursts. My car is crap and it's not fair and it must be somebody else's fault. Red Bull were always going to come up with a good car. Eventually. Newey's strike rate made it inevitable I suppose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 Everybody is ranting on about that bloody diffuser. Did nobody notice how good the BGP001 was in slow corners, where the diffuser is doing bugger all? ya.......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 I agree that FB does not take defeat well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2009 And what do you make of Mr Brawn's comment that he proposed tighter regulation of that area over a year ago to stop such a situation arising, but that his proposal was rejected by the other teams? I think it's true. He proposed tighter regulations to close the gap between the whole grid, probably he knew about Honda leaving if they didn't get anything back soon. I'm not defending the other teams, but I still think the diffuser was a well known element long before the start of the season and the FIA didn't want to clarify the rules on the matter before Australia. My own view is that it's legal. I don't really know, but some of Flavio's words about downforce increased up to 40% make sense to me. It could be declared legal but they should think about it carefully to avoid going backwards. I prefer a rear 2008 rear wing and not the diffusers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
