Quiet One

Hamilton/trulli Controversy Re-opened?

199 posts in this topic

I agree, as long as the stewards got it right this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honesty is the best policy ;)

I was thinking something was going on in this race. Hamilton was consistantly around 7th or 8th most of the race then suddenly finished 4th-3rd in the end.

Lies, lies that make the sweet baby jesus cry. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Although I agree that FIA ruins F1 by constantly changing the results after the races, for whichever technicality, in this case their decision was completely justified, in my opinion. McLaren voluntarily let Trulli pass (because they didn't know the rules?) and then deliberately lied to the stewards about what was going on in order to gain the spot they gave away. Had they just told the stewards what really did happen, the outcome of the race would most likely have been just what adam above suggests and that would be fair: it was McLaren's subsequent actions that were not fair, and the final (?) results reflect that (fairly ;) ).

I'm inclined to agree that the final result (Ham / McLaren being docked all points) is poetic justice.

I do tend to think though, when the stewards mess about so much with results, it's not surprising that teams like McLaren will try to play the system (as indeed they did). That they did it so stupidly and got found out is not an indication of the stewards intelligence, but rather a mark of MacLaren's stupidity.

More importantly, that they try it at all should serve as a wake up call for us all. F1 simply isn't about racing anymore. We have teams whinging about diffusers' legality, arguments over medals/points systems, future plans for half the teams to have capped spending, while the other half doesn't and other FOTA and FIA power struggles before the season's even started. Then we have a 10 place grid penalty for Vettel after what should be signed of as a simple racing incident, Trulli getting a 25 second penalty on a race finished under the safety car (thus taking all his points away, rather than a reasonable 2 or 3) and then the stewards overturn their own decision to award the 3rd to Trulli and disqualify McLaren for being dumb enough to think that they could get away with cheating Trulli out of his result (which, with a less knee-jerk / more intelligent bunch of race stewards no team would ever dream of doing).

Incompetence is rife. My confidence in humanity disintegrates further every waking moment.

Edited by adamstrags

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Honesty is the best policy ;)

I was thinking something was going on in this race. Hamilton was consistantly around 7th or 8th most of the race then suddenly finished 4th-3rd in the end.

Lies, lies that make the sweet baby jesus cry. :rolleyes:

Yea, Hamilton was constantly 7th or 8th and someone lied that Kimi, Kubica and Vettel crashed out. It was all a lie, it never happened. People who saw the race are fools, you know, the live feed was edited. Vettel and Kubica actually finished the race, you know, but everyone was viewing the same feed which was hacked by someone thus even the video watched by the pit crew and stewards showed those three crashing out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SEPANG, Malaysia (Reuters) - Formula One world champion Lewis Hamilton was stripped of his third place at the season-opening Australian Grand Prix after stewards ruled on Thursday that he and McLaren had deliberately misled them.

The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a statement at the Malaysian Grand Prix that Hamilton and his team had both been excluded from the classification of last weekend's race.

Toyota's Italian Jarno Trulli, who had been handed a 25 second penalty and demoted to 12th place at a post-race hearing for overtaking Hamilton during the second safety car period, was reinstated in third.

Stewards had reopened their enquiry on Thursday after "new elements" emerged and summoned Hamilton to appear before them at the Sepang circuit.

Their verdict was that "Hamilton and ... McLaren Mercedes acted in a manner prejudicial to the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the stewards at the hearing on Sunday."

They ruled that there had been a breach of the international sporting code.

With Hamilton's team mate Heikki Kovalainen failing to finish in Melbourne, McLaren are now in the same situation as champions Ferrari with no points.

oyota had served notice of a protest after the race in Melbourne but decided not to proceed on Wednesday because they felt there was no chance of overturning the stewards' decision.

Trulli, who had slid off and been passed by Hamilton while behind the safety car, said after the race that he had little choice but to overtake the Briton again.

"When the safety car came out towards the end of the race, Lewis Hamilton passed me but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road," he said in a team statement at the time.

"I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."

Hamilton had told Speed TV that Trulli went wide onto the grass at the second to last corner.

"I was forced to go by. I slowed down as much as I could. I was told to let him back past, but I mean ... I don't know if that's the regulations, and if it isn't, then I should have really had third," said the Briton.

It was not clear what he had told the stewards in the original enquiry and the driver would not elaborate in a news conference at Sepang before the new verdict was known.

In a separate development, Red Bull's German Sebastian Vettel could have his 10 place penalty on the Malaysian starting grid reviewed.

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said Vettel had been asked to discuss the penalty with Alan Donnelly, the FIA'S permanent non-voting chairman of the stewards.

http://in.reuters.com/article/formulaOneNe...lBrandChannel=0

Thats what Lewis told exactly after the race, and where did the lies theory come from? It was stewards' mistake, to cover it up they are disqualifying Mclaren. With rules changing almost every race, how is it possible for everyone to remember what is what? Mclaren were just being on the safe side by giving Trulli back his place, they paid for their charity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"I was forced to go by. I slowed down as much as I could. I was told to let him back past, but I mean ... I don't know if that's the regulations, and if it isn't, then I should have really had third," said the Briton.

It was not clear what he had told the stewards in the original enquiry and the driver would not elaborate in a news conference at Sepang before the new verdict was known.

I tend to think that that means he told the stewards something other than what he told SPEED. If he had said exactly the same thing to the stewards, you can bet he'd be screaming about it right now. Since he isn't, it kind of indicates some inconsistency in his story.

In a separate development, Red Bull's German Sebastian Vettel could have his 10 place penalty on the Malaysian starting grid reviewed.

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said Vettel had been asked to discuss the penalty with Alan Donnelly, the FIA'S permanent non-voting chairman of the stewards.

That decision should be overturned too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alleging Ignorance is not valid in any court, Mr. Hamilton! It seems he decided to be greater than MS and Ferrari, so he and his team decided to cheat big! Think big - Cheat big!

I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hamilton drove a great race with an inferior car, he does'nt deserve being stripped of points. Different interpretations creates different opinions....

a Mockery of the sport I tell ya!!! I told you guys we should strike and strip naked and run on the track b4 the races, but you just would'nt listen!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:lol: I love how you guys always surprise me. People I thought I would agree with I don't and vice versa! We all believed in the first version (Trulli off road/Hammy gets through/Trulli retakes position) In that case FIA was meddling too much but it would have been fair to Lewis, if unfair to Trulli. But lying to the stwerads??? That's not a case of FIA meddling too much! That's a case of McLaren being completely suicidal! Not even the most laid back and easy going set of stweards would have let such thing unppunished. IF this version is true (Lewis said one thing to SpeedTv and another to the stewards) then I feel sorry for Lewis because he did a great race, but the lying stuff...geez, that's a thousand times more stupid than Kubica vs Vettel! And I still think it wouldn't be Lewis to blame. I bet he was being honest with SPeedTV and some idiot lawyer at McLaren made him lie so blatantly.
McLaren is starting to make Ferrari look like a bunch of virginal little girls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We all believed in the first version

Except of course the all seeing all knowing one ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

F1 is no longer a sport. Alonso was absolutely correct.

Lets call the F1 championship: Lawyer's champ, winner is the one who has the best lawyer...not the best racer...

For God's shake... :mellow:

f.i.!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Except of course the all seeing all knowing one ;)

Do I have to remind you that I predicted Alonso's two wins last year? I am challenging you for the title!

Beware, you creature with unholy hair!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:lol: I love how you guys always surprise me. People I thought I would agree with I don't and vice versa! We all believed in the first version (Trulli off road/Hammy gets through/Trulli retakes position) In that case FIA was meddling too much but it would have been fair to Lewis, if unfair to Trulli. But lying to the stwerads??? That's not a case of FIA meddling too much! That's a case of McLaren being completely suicidal! Not even the most laid back and easy going set of stweards would have let such thing unppunished. IF this version is true (Lewis said one thing to SpeedTv and another to the stewards) then I feel sorry for Lewis because he did a great race, but the lying stuff...geez, that's a thousand times more stupid than Kubica vs Vettel! And I still think it wouldn't be Lewis to blame. I bet he was being honest with SPeedTV and some idiot lawyer at McLaren made him lie so blatantly.

McLaren is starting to make Ferrari look like a bunch of virginal little girls.

Here's another thing to chew on...... Just why did Hamilton feel the need to lie to the stewards...well, here's the answer, and forgive me for my mouth should-be-given-pepper answer... He's been ****ed over so many times by stupid FIA decisions in his young career he felt the need to....Look at the stupid penalties that were handed out last year!!!

(the bold part for real emphasis by the way)

Edited by BradSpeedMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's another thing to chew on...... Just why did Hamilton feel the need to lie to the stewards...well, here's the answer, and forgive me for my mouth should-be-given-pepper answer... He's been ****ed over so many times by stupid FIA decisions in his young career he felt the need to....Look at the stupid penalties that were handed out last year!!!

(the bold part for real emphasis by the way)

:lol: Nah. In fact, I don't think Lewis felt he need to lie to the stewards. Had he kept his initial version (the one he told to the journalists) he would probably had just lost a place. Now he is deep in uncharted waters. The guy lied to the stewards. I am sure that losing his points at Melbourne will be the lighter part of his penalty And all this because the team didn't provide him with the radio transmissions. He didn't feel the need to...he was put in that position by his team. I hate Lewis, but I don't think he would have done this by himself.

This is yet another example of Macca's registered "We are very sorry. Nobody understands us we are nice guys. We did the right thing even if it looks as if we are the worst bunch of incompetetent cheaters in the world. But we will endure this test and won't appeal" All this said with a face that shows both contrition and hurt dignity. :P

It didn't work with the Stepneygate. Wanna bet it won't work with the Winemakergate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None of this mess makes any sense to me. It would surely be a stupidly c#cky lawyer who told Lewis to lie about radio transmissions the stewards already had. At least, I believe they already had them, even if they didn't check them at first. Certainly they were free at any point to demand McLaren hand them over, if Jarno's testimony had been different to Lewis's and suggested the need to check anything.

Frankly the whole thing is a mess. We can be sure of only a few things. The stewards are utterly incompetent: Jarno's penalty was (even before today) just the latest in a series of completely illogical or draconian decisions. McLaren/Lewis lie all the time: regardless or whether or not, and why or why they didn't, lie this time, we all know they do in general. In their defence, I suspect most other teams do too.

Edited by Murray Walker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do I have to remind you that I predicted Alonso's two wins last year? I am challenging you for the title!

Beware, you creature with unholy hair!

Beware of false prophets - some religious book page 342 psalm 223 line 23

Here's another thing to chew on...... Just why did Hamilton feel the need to lie to the stewards...well, here's the answer, and forgive me for my mouth should-be-given-pepper answer... He's been ****ed over so many times by stupid FIA decisions in his young career he felt the need to....Look at the stupid penalties that were handed out last year!!!

(the bold part for real emphasis by the way)

I thought you liked Kimi :S You just have a thing for intellectually negligible drivers I guess?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
None of this mess makes any sense to me. It would surely be a stupidly c#cky lawyer who told Lewis to lie about radio transmissions the stewards already had. At least, I believe they already had them, even if they didn't check them at first. Certainly they were free at any point to demand McLaren hand them over, if Jarno's testimony had been different to Lewis's and suggested the need to check anything.

Frankly the whole thing is a mess. We can be sure of only a few things. The stewards are utterly incompetent: Jarno's penalty was (even before today) just the latest in a series of completely illogical or draconian decisions. McLaren/Lewis lie all the time: regardless or whether or not, and why or why they didn't, lie this time, we all know they do in general. In their defence, I suspect most other teams do too.

If the Vettel decision is reversed, that will be the first time in living memory that they fixed all their errors. Sure, it took them a while to come to the right decision, but that's better than not getting there at all. And admitting they might be wrong and reconsidering is a huge thing, they get credit for that.

I don't think anyone told Lewis to lie. It was a classic schoolboy spur of the moment lie.

As the bald one said, years of cheating and getting away have made Mclaren think they're the teacher's pet, and they don't realize it is not working any more.

Am I the only one who finds twitmarsh even more annoying than moRon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think anyone told Lewis to lie. It was a classic schoolboy spur of the moment lie.

"However, the latest statement published by the FIA summarising the stewards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. This is totally unbased and is just a guess from my side (haven't read this anywhere else): isn't it possible that the FIA decides that Lewis should be stripped fo his F1 license for this? Or at least a few races ban?

If so, it would be obviously too harsh, but we all know that lately FIA hasn't been too soft on McLaren and Lewis. Now, it would be criminal from FIA to go to such extremes. But wouldn't it be criminal from McLaren in first place to put their driver in such a position?

(And even if I am an anti Lewis fan, I want him to race and be the best he can, I want to see him beaten on track, not ignominiously penalized in some courtroom)

McLaren is like old god Chronos. Eating his children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well of course they lied!! That was plain as day. I think Lewis would have done better by himself... I'm convinced that it was someone from the team who told him to lie to the stewards.

Anyway, McLaren's fault for being idiots.

Now let's hope they scrap Vettel's penalty ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ah yes, it's back....something about radoeing Charlie Whiting and what it would do to the cause....

the epiphany has faded again...sorry

Edited by BradSpeedMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ah yes, it's back....something about radoeing Charlie Whiting and what it would do to the cause....

the epiphany has faded again...sorry

:lol: I am laughing out loud here!

I guess you mean that Whiting's delay in giving an answer played some part in all this? McLaren says they asked him for clarification but he was too busy.

If you want to go the conspiracy way: Whiting and Brawn are good mates...go paranoid! :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well of course they lied!! That was plain as day.

actually, the more I read the transcripts, the more the confusion becomes clear.... What is Mr Whiting saying in all this.????

Also, if they did misled the stewards,who already made mistakes as Mr Murray Walker states, let them do so more.... they're are incompetent fools!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now