Quiet One

Hamilton/trulli Controversy Re-opened?

199 posts in this topic

I thought the FIA/stewards had access to all the radio transmissions for the past couple of years, at least?? Or am I just making that up?? :lol:

Yes, they can request any radio transmission. What I am saying is that they don't have it automatically at their disposal, right? If they want a specific radio communications they have to ask for it. It isn't as if they have every communication automatically taped somewhere. That is my understanding.

Even if the question to Charlie was much shorter, as you say, then it's still obvious what happened, surely?? Also, shouldn't the stewards get the radio transcripts from any incident they are investigating as a matter of course? Or is that too much like common sense?

Yes, they should have requested the radio communications immediately. If you want to defend the FIA you could ssay that the situation seemed simple enough at first not to bother with that. I don't know. But let's suppose that they should have asked for the radio transmissions. I tend to agree with that. I also tend to agree to whoever will come with the claim that FIA should have solved this faster than in 4 days.

It still sounds like very minor mistakes compared to such a breaking of the rules. Would be like criticizing the stewards for not wearing ties at the hearings. Ok, maybe worse than that but still meaningless.

Maybe I am too furious at the moment and my judgement is clouded. It just p**ses me off! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, they can request any radio transmission. What I am saying is that they don't have it automatically at their disposal, right? If they want a specific radio communications they have to ask for it. It isn't as if they have every communication automatically taped somewhere. That is my understanding.

Yes, they should have requested the radio communications immediately. If you want to defend the FIA you could ssay that the situation seemed simple enough at first not to bother with that. I don't know. But let's suppose that they should have asked for the radio transmissions. I tend to agree with that. I also tend to agree to whoever will come with the claim that FIA should have solved this faster than in 4 days.

It still sounds like very minor mistakes compared to such a breaking of the rules. Would be like criticizing the stewards for not wearing ties at the hearings. Ok, maybe worse than that but still meaningless.

Maybe I am too furious at the moment and my judgement is clouded. It just p**ses me off! :lol:

What are you so annoyed about baldy??? Honestly, it's not worth it :lol:

If the situation was simple, how did they penalise Trulli 25s?? They must have had some 'evidence' to do that. Surely they can't just say 'we didn't see the incident and we have no idea what went on, but Trulli must have passed Hamilton under yellows, so that's a 25s penalty'. I'm sorry, but that's not sitting too easily with me at the moment.

I agree that Macca and Lewis lying is disproportionately stupid, especially when it's so easy to prove, but sports are full of liars and you can't go around banning evryone because they lie. We would have no sports people left :whistling:

Edited by pabloh20

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I agree. For me, the stewards' mistakes cast doubt over whether they are right this time, or any other time. I'm not trying to defend McLaren or Hamilton in particular - I always said Lewis lies and cheats more than most drivers and it was already ridiculous to penalise Trulli (who doesn't) so harshly 4 days ago. But to penalise him without getting all the (apparently) necessary information first is just another reason to doubt their judgement and/or integrity in general. As Oli said, seeing the transcripts would be interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As Oli said, seeing the transcripts would be interesting.

I saw the transcripts in Spanish and it was quite stupid.

They told him to give way, then wait, wait we'll ask Charlie but Hamilton had already let Trulli by. They said well done, that's a good thing to do. We are waiting for Charlie... Chaaaaaarlie? :lol:

It was more or less like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I saw the transcripts in Spanish and it was quite stupid.

They told him to give way, then wait, wait we'll ask Charlie but Hamilton had already let Trulli by. They said well done, that's a good thing to do. We are waiting for Charlie... Chaaaaaarlie? :lol:

It was more or less like that.

They mean the transcripts of the hearing itself, where Hamilton allegedly said that he didn't slow down to let Trulli through.

I want to see it, too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that's McLaren's radio transcript I think. We got that in English too, and yes it doesn't look too good for Lewis/McLaren. Oli was talking about transcripts of the hearings with the stewards, so we can hear each side of the story in detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But to penalise him without getting all the (apparently) necessary information first is just another reason to doubt their judgement and/or integrity in general.

I dunno. Seems a bit contradictory. I think we can all agree the race steward system is flawed. However, to question the stewards for correcting an error seems like a no-win situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing I think that annoys me most is the "further action might be taken" statement on the end. Do they mean "further action may be taken if new information comes to light" (well, duh!) or "we haven't made up our minds and are dithering about what penalty we should actually give".

I don't ask even that I know the results at the end of the race. But I think if they haven't sorted it out by Monday then the stewards should be punished- for example on the Friday of the next race weekend they should have to run around the racetrack whilst Yuji Ide is driving around in a tank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read that all the radio transmissions are recorded at race control (makes sense) so the FIA had them available throughout this fiasco, they weren't monitoring Mclaren/Lewis radio traffic at the time because there was no need to, but they always had the information available. They should have looked at all the available info before making any kind of judgement. Since there was no mention of any radio transmissions at any point in the investigation, Mclaren clearly thought that they had got away with it, and so told Lewis to change his original story when he was interviewed by the stewards.

Once the FIA remembered to listen to the radio transcripts, they found out and it all went tits up.

Quite dumb actions by all parties, if the FIA/Whiting did their job properly in the first place none of it would have happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read that all the radio transmissions are recorded at race control (makes sense) so the FIA had them available throughout this fiasco, they weren't monitoring Mclaren/Lewis radio traffic at the time because there was no need to, but they always had the information available. They should have looked at all the available info before making any kind of judgement. Since there was no mention of any radio transmissions at any point in the investigation, Mclaren clearly thought that they had got away with it, and so told Lewis to change his original story when he was interviewed by the stewards.

Once the FIA remembered to listen to the radio transcripts, they found out and it all went tits up.

Quite dumb actions by all parties, if the FIA/Whiting did their job properly in the first place none of it would have happened.

If so, it is still a case of FIAs usual incompetence against a case of huge stupidity and dishonesty. Still the biggest culprit would be McLaren. And at least FIA ammended their mistake by listening to the transmissions (albeit late). And after all has been said and done. McLaren is still the cheating party at the end of the day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If so, it is still a case of FIAs usual incompetence against a case of huge stupidity and dishonesty. Still the biggest culprit would be McLaren. And at least FIA ammended their mistake by listening to the transmissions (albeit late). And after all has been said and done. McLaren is still the cheating party at the end of the day.

Probably, the best indication of Mclaren's guilt is a lack of defence to the punishment. I would still like to see what was said in the original stewards interview with the drivers. It's still hard to believe they [Mclaren] could be so stupid, quite worrying in fact, they should have owned up and they would have been demoted to fourth I'm sure - maybe they were concerned due to FIA's love for over-punishing them.

As it stands, the FIA's decision is a fair one, even if it does feel a little like they are covering their own mistake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If so, it is still a case of FIAs usual incompetence against a case of huge stupidity and dishonesty. Still the biggest culprit would be McLaren. And at least FIA ammended their mistake by listening to the transmissions (albeit late). And after all has been said and done. McLaren is still the cheating party at the end of the day.

I know what you are saying and I agree to a point. It's good that Trulli has not been penalised (in the end)................but how on earth did they even make that decision in the first place?

If you see a driver has been given a penalty, then you presume that the stewards have found evidence that a transgression of the rules has taken place from somewhere. All this proves, beyond the usual confirmation of steward incompetence, is that they can actually give penalties with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Probably, the best indication of Mclaren's guilt is a lack of defence to the punishment.

Yup.

I would still like to see what was said in the original stewards interview with the drivers.

Yup.

It's still hard to believe they [Mclaren] could be so stupid, quite worrying in fact, they should have owned up and they would have been demoted to fourth I'm sure - maybe they were concerned due to FIA's love for over-punishing them.

Maybe, but now we will have to face yet another tainted season no matter what the outcopme of this whole saga is. And all that due to their own stupidity.

If they get away with it, it will be a farce. If they don't and get a ban for some races or a championship exclusion, we won't see Lewis opportunity to defend his title on track.

It's a loss-loss situation. Thanks McLaren for ruining the whole season from the start! :meh:

As it stands, the FIA's decision is a fair one, even if it does feel a little like they are covering their own mistake.

They are. Half of the FIA statement seemed aimed to explain why they weren't able to solve this issue sooner. But still...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Probably, the best indication of Mclaren's guilt is a lack of defence to the punishment. I would still like to see what was said in the original stewards interview with the drivers. It's still hard to believe they [Mclaren] could be so stupid, quite worrying in fact, they should have owned up and they would have been demoted to fourth I'm sure - maybe they were concerned due to FIA's love for over-punishing them.

As it stands, the FIA's decision is a fair one, even if it does feel a little like they are covering their own mistake.

Yep.

Interestingly enough though........................................ http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9107.html

Does that mean Toyota was admitting guilt :eusa_think::lol:

Edited by pabloh20

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe, but now we will have to face yet another tainted season no matter what the outcopme of this whole saga is. And all that due to their own stupidity.

If they get away with it, it will be a farce. If they don't and get a ban for some races or a championship exclusion, we won't see Lewis opportunity to defend his title on track.

It's a loss-loss situation. Thanks McLaren for ruining the whole season from the start! :meh:

And when does your 'monthly cycle' end oh hormonal one??? :whistling:

Come on, they may be stupid, but it was just a lie. Is it any different to a footballer pretending to be injured worse than he is after a tackle to try and get another player booked or sent off?

Don't forget, Hamilton actually got 3rd place fair and square, he should have stayed in that position. It's not like they lied or cheated to get him into 3rd place, only about why they let Trulli past. Bollock knows why they did that, but there you go. It's hardly tainting anything else for the season, only that you don't believe a word that comes from McLaren :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you see a driver has been given a penalty, then you presume that the stewards have found evidence that a transgression of the rules has taken place from somewhere. All this proves, beyond the usual confirmation of steward incompetence, is that they can actually give penalties with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

No. It only proves that you can give them misleading proofs due to their own incompetence.

Let's review the facts, according to the so far official version:

1) Trulli overtakes Hamilton.

2) Nor Trulli, nor the FIA know at the moment that Hamilton was told to let him through.

3) At the hearings, Trulli says he overtook Hamilton because he thought that Hamilton had obvious problems and slowed down. It certainly didn't make much sense at the moment...unless Hamilton actually slowed down on purpose. They asked Hamilton adn McLaren and both said "No, Lewis didn't let Trulli through". Simple story. Trulli did the wrong thing and came with an excuse. He gets the usual penalty. Seemed like a rutinary breach of the rules. Nothing too serious.

4) FIA/stewards (I am using FIA even if I know it was the stewards because it's easier that way) later learn that Hamilton told the reporters that he was told to slow down by the team. That means the focus is no more on a simple story ("did Trulli overtook Hamilton legally or not?") but a more serious one ("Did McLaren/Lewis purposedly lie at the hearing or not?"). This calls for a more serious set of evidence and a more thorough investigation.

I see no real conflict there. Still McLaren lied on purpose. Even if FIA was slow and hesitant. If anything, it proves that they were willing to accept McLaren's word for it. Far from being anti Macca, I say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yup.

Yup.

Maybe, but now we will have to face yet another tainted season no matter what the outcopme of this whole saga is. And all that due to their own stupidity.

If they get away with it, it will be a farce. If they don't and get a ban for some races or a championship exclusion, we won't see Lewis opportunity to defend his title on track.

It's a loss-loss situation. Thanks McLaren for ruining the whole season from the start! :meh:

They are. Half of the FIA statement seemed aimed to explain why they weren't able to solve this issue sooner. But still...

:lol: Calm down dear, it's only the usual lying/cheating/incompetence bulls##t, we should be used to it by now!

I agree though, it's a shame, I feel worst for Loowis because he did a darn good drive ya know.

Yep.

Interestingly enough though........................................ http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9107.html

Does that mean Toyota was admitting guilt :eusa_think::lol:

:lol: Maybe if they had appealed the FIA would have been distracted, too busy telling them they can't appeal, and wouldn't have investigated any further.

And when does your 'monthly cycle' end oh hormonal one??? :whistling:

Come on, they may be stupid, but it was just a lie. Is it any different to a footballer pretending to be injured worse than he is after a tackle to try and get another player booked or sent off?

Don't forget, Hamilton actually got 3rd place fair and square, he should have stayed in that position. It's not like they lied or cheated to get him into 3rd place, only about why they let Trulli past. Bollock knows why they did that, but there you go. It's hardly tainting anything else for the season, only that you don't believe a word that comes from McLaren :lol:

Indeed, I don't think it is a massive transgression, in fact it seems like more a blunder than some cleverly designed way of beating the FIA, unlike those diffuser designs :whistling:

Like I said, I can't help but feel bad for Hammy, he did a good drive, and just because Jarno can't control his car at safety car speeds he ends up getting penalised :P Silly bollocks at it's finest.

Mclaren really have a lot to learn yet when it comes to cheating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And when does your 'monthly cycle' end oh hormonal one??? :whistling:

Now that's offensive. You know I am already past my andropause! Oops...

Come on, they may be stupid, but it was just a lie. Is it any different to a footballer pretending to be injured worse than he is after a tackle to try and get another player booked or sent off?

And Hungary 2007 was just a childish joke from Nando...and the Stepneygate was just a couple of photocopies...and La Rascasse was just Schumi having a laugh...and...and...

Come on! We all (even Renault fans) keep saying how much of a cheating b#####d Briatore is. If he had been connected to this, people would be calling the marines to go shoot his head off. Had it been Ferrari involved, the FIArrari posts would be all around and people posting "F1 is a fiasco...boo hoo...im fed up with this...I will never watch F1 again wahhh!"

Yet in the past couple of seasons McLaren had done enough to make Briatore look like Mother Teresa.

Don't forget, Hamilton actually got 3rd place fair and square, he should have stayed in that position. It's not like they lied or cheated to get him into 3rd place, only about why they let Trulli past. Bollock knows why they did that, but there you go. It's hardly tainting anything else for the season, only that you don't believe a word that comes from McLaren :lol:

Yes he did and he had an excellent race (hew was my pick for DOD). Like I said before, had they admitted their mistake, they wouldn't have done so bad at the end of the day. Geez, they weren't even expecting to end in the points! So 4th would have been as good. But nooo...they had to lie and let Trulli carry the whole burden of the penalty. Websites were ecstatic making jokes about Trulli. Well...they knew they were unfairly making look Trulli like a cheater so I say to hell with Macca.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No. It only proves that you can give them misleading proofs due to their own incompetence.

Let's review the facts, according to the so far official version:

1) Trulli overtakes Hamilton.

2) Nor Trulli, nor the FIA know at the moment that Hamilton was told to let him through.

3) At the hearings, Trulli says he overtook Hamilton because he thought that Hamilton had obvious problems and slowed down. It certainly didn't make much sense at the moment...unless Hamilton actually slowed down on purpose. They asked Hamilton adn McLaren and both said "No, Lewis didn't let Trulli through". Simple story. Trulli did the wrong thing and came with an excuse. He gets the usual penalty. Seemed like a rutinary breach of the rules. Nothing too serious.

4) FIA/stewards (I am using FIA even if I know it was the stewards because it's easier that way) later learn that Hamilton told the reporters that he was told to slow down by the team. That means the focus is no more on a simple story ("did Trulli overtook Hamilton legally or not?") but a more serious one ("Did McLaren/Lewis purposedly lie at the hearing or not?"). This calls for a more serious set of evidence and a more thorough investigation.

I see no real conflict there. Still McLaren lied on purpose. Even if FIA was slow and hesitant. If anything, it proves that they were willing to accept McLaren's word for it. Far from being anti Macca, I say.

No, no, no and no. Just no!!!

Are you saying that the only reason Trulli was given a penalty was because they asked McLaren and they said no, we didn't let Trulli through???? I'm sorry, but that can't be right. They cannot possibly give a penalty purely on the basis of they 'the driver said so', without being the laughing stock of the sporting world.

Whenever there is a pending steward's decision, we are told that the decision takes time because they have to assess the facts, which usually means consulting telemetry, etc, etc. Now we find out that is all complete bollocks and penalties are dished out on which driver gives the most convincing story?? :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No. It only proves that you can give them misleading proofs due to their own incompetence.

Let's review the facts, according to the so far official version:

1) Trulli overtakes Hamilton.

2) Nor Trulli, nor the FIA know at the moment that Hamilton was told to let him through.

3) At the hearings, Trulli says he overtook Hamilton because he thought that Hamilton had obvious problems and slowed down. It certainly didn't make much sense at the moment...unless Hamilton actually slowed down on purpose. They asked Hamilton adn McLaren and both said "No, Lewis didn't let Trulli through". Simple story. Trulli did the wrong thing and came with an excuse. He gets the usual penalty. Seemed like a rutinary breach of the rules. Nothing too serious.

4) FIA/stewards (I am using FIA even if I know it was the stewards because it's easier that way) later learn that Hamilton told the reporters that he was told to slow down by the team. That means the focus is no more on a simple story ("did Trulli overtook Hamilton legally or not?") but a more serious one ("Did McLaren/Lewis purposedly lie at the hearing or not?"). This calls for a more serious set of evidence and a more thorough investigation.

I see no real conflict there. Still McLaren lied on purpose. Even if FIA was slow and hesitant. If anything, it proves that they were willing to accept McLaren's word for it. Far from being anti Macca, I say.

What good is it asking the bloody drivers though? Like they are not biased and gonna lie anyway!

That's like asking the criminal 'so, did you commit the murder?' and if they say 'no' you just accept it? Of course not. As soon as there was any conflicting reports between the drivers, they should have said 'okay, we'll look at the radio transmissions to corroborate your story Lewis'. Really simple, but they failed to do that. Such a flawed system. Having the transmissions available should avoid all this kind of bulls##t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, no, no and no. Just no!!!

Are you saying that the only reason Trulli was given a penalty was because they asked McLaren and they said no, we didn't let Trulli through???? I'm sorry, but that can't be right. They cannot possibly give a penalty purely on the basis of they 'the driver said so', without being the laughing stock of the sporting world.

Whenever there is a pending steward's decision, we are told that the decision takes time because they have to assess the facts, which usually means consulting telemetry, etc, etc. Now we find out that is all complete bollocks and penalties are dished out on which driver gives the most convincing story?? :lol:

What he said!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with George. And I find it outrageous that the only time when I don't find any fault whatsoever in Hamilton and actually had to admit he drove a great race the FIA penalise him because his team are idiots...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May I have a Maure moment?

I am _smiling_ here. :P

I mean, McLaren/Hamilton are caught cheating in the worse way. Yet the focus has shifted to FIA's obvious incompetence. You _are_ aware that none of this lessens the fact that McLaren had hit rock bottom with all this, right?

Sorry, I feel compelled to _walk_ now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now that's offensive. You know I am already past my andropause! Oops...

:lol:

And Hungary 2007 was just a childish joke from Nando...and the Stepneygate was just a couple of photocopies...and La Rascasse was just Schumi having a laugh...and...and...

Come on! We all (even Renault fans) keep saying how much of a cheating b#####d Briatore is. If he had been connected to this, people would be calling the marines to go shoot his head off. Had it been Ferrari involved, the FIArrari posts would be all around and people posting "F1 is a fiasco...boo hoo...im fed up with this...I will never watch F1 again wahhh!"

Yet in the past couple of seasons McLaren had done enough to make Briatore look like Mother Teresa.

Sooooo, I guess that's a no then, the monthly cycle hasn't finished :whistling:

Yes he did and he had an excellent race (hew was my pick for DOD). Like I said before, had they admitted their mistake, they wouldn't have done so bad at the end of the day. Geez, they weren't even expecting to end in the points! So 4th would have been as good. But nooo...they had to lie and let Trulli carry the whole burden of the penalty. Websites were ecstatic making jokes about Trulli. Well...they knew they were unfairly making look Trulli like a cheater so I say to hell with Macca.

What bollocking websites do you read for bollockings sake??? I haven't seen any bollocks about Trulli being a bollocking cheater. All I have seen is Trulli 25s penalty. Trulli reinstated.

Stay away from the bollocking light and you won't get so bollocking hormonal :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now