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Hamilton/trulli Controversy Re-opened?

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:lol: I am laughing out loud here!

I guess you mean that Whiting's delay in giving an answer played some part in all this? McLaren says they asked him for clarification but he was too busy.

If you want to go the conspiracy way: Whiting and Brawn are good mates...go paranoid! :ph34r:

conspiracies, hell I love 'em!!!!... :D

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maybe he was told to lie by some nincompoop in head management who had no clue, thats the logical conclusion

And we all know who is head management in McM ;)

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Have I missed something here.

If Hamilton went by legally but then opted to give the place back, what's the problem.

I think the only ones having a problem are McLaren and Lewis, and their problem is that they lost the points they earned. They created this problem on their own by lieing to the stewards about opting to give the place back. Simple as that.

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Oh help me for I'm McLoving this, my Ferrari may fail on the track, but McDumb just epic fails. Excuse whilst I go wipe the tears from my eyes and repair to my lazy- boy to recover from uncontroled fits of laughter. :lol:

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As Trulli finished ahead on the road though and that is now deemed OK then I still don't get the Hamilton bit.

Apologies if I seem stupid here.

Here's a quick guideline for you:

1) Trulli goes off road. Hamilton overtakes him as the rules allow drivers to overtake under SC if the other guy has obvious problems with his car.

2) Trulli overtakes Hamilton.

3) Stewards call both Lewis and Jarno to hear their versions.

4) Allegedly Lewis version: he passed Jarno because Trulli went off track and then Trulli re took his position.

Jarno's version: He thought Lewis had also a problem with his car and he re took his position

FIA believed Lewis and deemed Jarno's overtaking illegal. Thus he was penalised.

5) Before the hearings, Lewis gave an interview where he said that he was told to let Trulli through by his team. In such case, he had no right to become third and Trulli should not have been penalised. That is not what hesaid to the stewards apparently.

6) Radio transmissions proved that he conciously let Trulli re take his position. That means that they knew that Trulli didn't do anything wrong yet they didn't say anything at the hearings letting Trulli being demoted.

7) FIA penalises Macca and Lewis for misleading the stewards.

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That's a case of McLaren being completely suicidal! Not even the most laid back and easy going set of stweards would have let such thing unppunished. IF this version is true (Lewis said one thing to SpeedTv and another to the stewards) then I feel sorry for Lewis because he did a great race, but the lying stuff...geez, that's a thousand times more stupid than Kubica vs Vettel! And I still think it wouldn't be Lewis to blame. I bet he was being honest with SPeedTV and some idiot lawyer at McLaren made him lie so blatantly.

I am no fan of Macca, but I will admit that past steward decisions have been debatable when it comes to Mr. Hamilton. However, the phrase "monumentally idiotic" would not be enough to describe the utter stupidity of this move by Lewis and Macca. Honestly, what c#ckup lawyer would recommend lying to the stewards about what happened on the track? A rank amatuer may not have been able to foresee a chain of events that would lead Trulli/Toyota to say, "hey wait a minute...," which would lead to a review of video, which would lead to a review of car telemetry, which would lead to a review of pit-to-car transmission?! Seriously. Who told Lewis to lie? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the lawyer made us do it excuse.

Not the brightest move by McLaren and Mr. Hamilton.

Honestly though, I hope the FIA don't levy more sanctions against Lewis - that would be a shame.

Edited by McGrubbin

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I think the punishment is fair. It's not only just Lewis, but the McLaren team lied. Lewis told the stewards that Trulli pass him, he didn't let Trulli by. McLaren didn't did tell their end of the story by telling that they told Lewis to let Trulli by.

I think it's the best decision that the stewards made in a long, long, long time.

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Pfft. I like it when the order the cars finish in isn't changed around 28 times before we award the points.

The salient point in this mess is Mclaren's stupidity.

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Is there a transcript of the hearing during which Hamilton and Ryan are alleged to have lied? I think given the lack of faith most people have in the decisions made by the stewards there should be.

Whilst I don't trust McLaren I have zero faith in the stewards to make the right decision on anything either. More transparency please!

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Is there a transcript of the hearing during which Hamilton and Ryan are alleged to have lied? I think given the lack of faith most people have in the decisions made by the stewards there should be.

Whilst I don't trust McLaren I have zero faith in the stewards to make the right decision on anything either. More transparency please!

A transcript of the original hearing would be useful indeed, and would go some way to restore people's confidence in the stewards/FIA, providing they are being truthful.

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**** CAUTION: EMOTIONALLY ALTERED POSTER AHEAD ****

A transcript of the original hearing would be useful indeed, and would go some way to restore people's confidence in the stewards/FIA, providing they are being truthful.

I would have agreed at first. But as time passes I find myself more and more angry towards McLaren. I barely give any credit to the possibility of FIA lieing about McLarens position at the hearing. WHitmarsh himself accepted the penalty and his only comment was that Hamilton didn't lie, that the team made a mistake. Didn't even try to deny the facts mentioned by the FIA. So why mistrust the FIA more than McLaren do?

This isn't acase of stewards micromanaging the race (unlike Kubica vs Vettel). This is a case of blatant cheat intent. Ferrari got their fair share of flame for doing what they did at Monaco with Schumi. I find no grounds to feel more generous towards Macca. Specially after the events two years ago. They have no Alonso around to blame now. Yet they still cheat. And as Trulli said when the Rascasse gate was around (oh, the irony!): "It's not that they cheated, it's just that were so lame at it".

I still think that Lewis is more dumb than sly, and that McLaren has most of the responsability. But I am seriously considering that they are not worthy to be around F1. Even taking into account that F1 is a bunch of mother****ing cheaters :furious:

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**** CAUTION: EMOTIONALLY ALTERED POSTER AHEAD ****

I would have agreed at first. But as time passes I find myself more and more angry towards McLaren. I barely give any credit to the possibility of FIA lieing about McLarens position at the hearing. WHitmarsh himself accepted the penalty and his only comment was that Hamilton didn't lie, that the team made a mistake. Didn't even try to deny the facts mentioned by the FIA. So why mistrust the FIA more than McLaren do?

This isn't acase of stewards micromanaging the race (unlike Kubica vs Vettel). This is a case of blatant cheat intent. Ferrari got their fair share of flame for doing what they did at Monaco with Schumi. I find no grounds to feel more generous towards Macca. Specially after the events two years ago. They have no Alonso around to blame now. Yet they still cheat. And as Trulli said when the Rascasse gate was around (oh, the irony!): "It's not that they cheated, it's just that were so lame at it".

I still think that Lewis is more dumb than sly, and that McLaren has most of the responsability. But I am seriously considering that they are not worthy to be around F1. Even taking into account that F1 is a bunch of mother****ing cheaters :furious:

You know what's really puzzling me, apart from how dumb McLaren and possibly Lewis can be, is why did the stewards need Hamilton and Trulli to explain what went on in the first place?

Thinking about it, the stewards have the radio transmissions/transcripts anyway and according to the McLaren radio transcript, Charlie Whiting knew what had happened, so why did they need an explanation from the drivers? It makes no sense whatsoever that the stewards needed to speak to the drivers, they just needed to speak to Charlie and possibly the teams.

Does Charlie not communicate with the stewards, if not directly, then indirectly? If an incident is under investigation which the teams in question have asked him about, does he not tell the stewards his involvement, however small?

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Thinking about it, the stewards have the radio transmissions/transcripts anyway and according to the McLaren radio transcript, Charlie Whiting knew what had happened, so why did they need an explanation from the drivers? It makes no sense whatsoever that the stewards needed to speak to the drivers, they just needed to speak to Charlie and possibly the teams.

AFAIK, the teams are the depositories of the radio communication records, not the FIA nor the stewards. Also, according to what the radio transcript says, they just asked CW whether Lewis had to give the place back or not. All this is just blind guessing for we do not have the actual communication between the pits and CW, so we don'd know how much they told CW about the incident. I am pretty sure they didn't told him that they gave Lewis explicit orders to let Trulli trhough. Considering how frantic things are at the pits my guess is that the question must have been way shorter and to the point. SOmething in the lines of: "was Lewis allowed to overtake Trulli?".

The other side of the story is what is being challenged. And I don't think CW was aware about it at the moment.

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Is there a transcript of the hearing during which Hamilton and Ryan are alleged to have lied? I think given the lack of faith most people have in the decisions made by the stewards there should be.

Whilst I don't trust McLaren I have zero faith in the stewards to make the right decision on anything either. More transparency please!

Exactly. It would be very interesting to see transcripts of both the first and second set of hearings.

You know what's really puzzling me, apart from how dumb McLaren and possibly Lewis can be, is why did the stewards need Hamilton and Trulli to explain what went on in the first place?

Thinking about it, the stewards have the radio transmissions/transcripts anyway and according to the McLaren radio transcript, Charlie Whiting knew what had happened, so why did they need an explanation from the drivers? It makes no sense whatsoever that the stewards needed to speak to the drivers, they just needed to speak to Charlie and possibly the teams.

Does Charlie not communicate with the stewards, if not directly, then indirectly? If an incident is under investigation which the teams in question have asked him about, does he not tell the stewards his involvement, however small?

Yes I wonder this too. If Jarno says Lewis appeared to let him past, and Lewis says he did nothing out of the ordinary, then in order to punish Jarno in the first place the stewards ought to have watched the footage, listened to the radio conversations and looked at the telemetry. It seems ridiculous that they can get it so wrong, when really no new information has come their way, they've just gotten round to looking at it 4 days later.

None of this changes how dumb it would be, or was, for McLaren and Lewis to lie about something so unimportant and so, apparently, easily seen to be false.

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AFAIK, the teams are the depositories of the radio communication records, not the FIA nor the stewards. Also, according to what the radio transcript says, they just asked CW whether Lewis had to give the place back or not. All this is just blind guessing for we do not have the actual communication between the pits and CW, so we don'd know how much they told CW about the incident. I am pretty sure they didn't told him that they gave Lewis explicit orders to let Trulli trhough. Considering how frantic things are at the pits my guess is that the question must have been way shorter and to the point. SOmething in the lines of: "was Lewis allowed to overtake Trulli?".

The other side of the story is what is being challenged. And I don't think CW was aware about it at the moment.

I thought the FIA/stewards had access to all the radio transmissions for the past couple of years, at least?? Or am I just making that up?? :lol:

Even if the question to Charlie was much shorter, as you say, then it's still obvious what happened, surely?? Also, shouldn't the stewards get the radio transcripts from any incident they are investigating as a matter of course? Or is that too much like common sense?

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Yes I wonder this too. If Jarno says Lewis appeared to let him past, and Lewis says he did nothing out of the ordinary, then in order to punish Jarno in the first place the stewards ought to have watched the footage, listened to the radio conversations and looked at the telemetry. It seems ridiculous that they can get it so wrong, when really no new information has come their way, they've just gotten round to looking at it 4 days later.

None of this changes how dumb it would be, or was, for McLaren and Lewis to lie about something so unimportant and so, apparently, easily seen to be false.

Exactly. It sort of makes you wonder if the stewards are passing off some of the blame because they got it so monumentally wrong in the first place. Seriously, what 'evidence' did they have to penalise Trulli 25s in the first place? How can they interfere to that extent without any basis to do so?

Without too much investigating by the stewards and without having to consult with drivers, they could have made 1 of 2 decisions,quite easily and quickly. Either promote Hamilton to 3rd place and demote Trulli to 4th because Hamilton was legally allowed to pass and only because of indecision/failure to inform on the part of the stewards did he give the place back 'just in case'. Or they say tough bollocks Macca, you shouldn't have given the place back, it's not our fault you don't know the rules.

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