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YHR

Just Not Feeling It

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With so much potential for the grand spectacle that you so clearly crave, it amazes me that you did not watch the first race live. You make some good points but for me, your whole attitude is too negative here to make truly credible and objective criticisms. There is still much to be excited about.

Totally agree with the bold. Why do you think Michael would have stayed at Benetton, had Ayrton lived?

If you had read my post you would know why I didn't watch the first race. Do you know what my dream would be? a Grid of cars running unrev-limited 3.0l v10's- turbocharged unreve-limited 3.0l v10's running at whatever boost the teams can muster, active suspensions, ground effects, slicks- wide slicks, CVTs, all wheel stearing, and everything out of the most advanced metal alloys mankind can create. F1 used to be the pinnacle of motorcar technology, now my VW Passat has more bells and whistles in it than current F1 cars. Truly, for F1 that is a shame.

Why didn't I watch the first race live? Because there really wasn't anything that had me interested. I watched the Fp1-3 and Quali and KERS is really not remarkable, especially since the Williams design is far more interesting and not on track. Also, the cars are ugly anybody with a rudimentary understanding of lift vs drag/turbulence would be able to see that the new rear wing doesn't help in overtaking what so ever, all the overtaking this year has been done by cars that are much faster because they are carrying a much lighter fuel load just like every year. Also the FIA messed with the tires too much, Telling Bridgestone to find out what the optimum tire is for the race and then bring one tire too soft and one too hard, that's just ridiculous. And not increasing the rear tire width to compensate for rear down force level decrease and a mechanical grip increase at the front that now makes the cars far to oversteery for good driving which limits overtaking. I don't have a problem with overtaking but I have a problem with how a governing body which apparently knows nothing of actual physics or engineering legislates how overtaking should be done.

And why do I think Schumi would have stayed with Bennetton? Because he would have had a real rival in Senna whom he would have liked to race properly against. What did he really give up fighting against when he moved to Ferrari in 96? Hill and JV big woop-di-friken-do

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If you had read my post you would know why I didn't watch the first race. Do you know what my dream would be? a Grid of cars running unrev-limited 3.0l v10's- turbocharged unreve-limited 3.0l v10's running at whatever boost the teams can muster, active suspensions, ground effects, slicks- wide slicks, CVTs, all wheel stearing, and everything out of the most advanced metal alloys mankind can create. F1 used to be the pinnacle of motorcar technology, now my VW Passat has more bells and whistles in it than current F1 cars. Truly, for F1 that is a shame.

Why didn't I watch the first race live? Because there really wasn't anything that had me interested. I watched the Fp1-3 and Quali and KERS is really not remarkable, especially since the Williams design is far more interesting and not on track. Also, the cars are ugly anybody with a rudimentary understanding of lift vs drag/turbulence would be able to see that the new rear wing doesn't help in overtaking what so ever, all the overtaking this year has been done by cars that are much faster because they are carrying a much lighter fuel load just like every year. Also the FIA messed with the tires too much, Telling Bridgestone to find out what the optimum tire is for the race and then bring one tire too soft and one too hard, that's just ridiculous. And not increasing the rear tire width to compensate for rear down force level decrease and a mechanical grip increase at the front that now makes the cars far to oversteery for good driving which limits overtaking. I don't have a problem with overtaking but I have a problem with how a governing body which apparently knows nothing of actual physics or engineering legislates how overtaking should be done.

I agree with much of what you say but I honestly believe that there are great minds with a passion who have slaved over and deliberated where to take this sport. There are no easy solutions. Yes, on the face of it we could return to the golden era of unlimited power, fat tyres and a plethora of gizmos but safety will not allow that now. You have to work with what we've got. Unfortunately you cannot take the business ot of the sport.

And why do I think Schumi would have stayed with Bennetton? Because he would have had a real rival in Senna whom he would have liked to race properly against. What did he really give up fighting against when he moved to Ferrari in 96? Hill and JV big woop-di-friken-do

I disagree. Michael may or may not have won in '94 and '95 had Senna lived but I still think Todt would have targeted him. The lure and the challenge of Ferrari would still have been as strong as it was even if Senna was alive. I think it would have had little to do with needing to race Senna on a level field with similar equipment.

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If you had read my post you would know why I didn't watch the first race. Do you know what my dream would be? a Grid of cars running unrev-limited 3.0l v10's- turbocharged unreve-limited 3.0l v10's running at whatever boost the teams can muster, active suspensions, ground effects, slicks- wide slicks, CVTs, all wheel stearing, and everything out of the most advanced metal alloys mankind can create. F1 used to be the pinnacle of motorcar technology, now my VW Passat has more bells and whistles in it than current F1 cars. Truly, for F1 that is a shame.

Yes, I can see that back in the day F1 was special because the designers really could just make the fastest cars possible. Nowadays technology is so advanced that the whole idea of F1 needs changing imho. We can't just make the fastest cars conceivable because they'd be impossible to control, unless as DOF suggests we make them able to drive themselves, without any human involvement. If we allowed all the things you mention, we'd need to tighten the rules in some other areas to make it safe, and indeed humanly possible to control the cars.

And it's quite interesting that there's been much more R&D investment in developing your Passat than an F1 car, so in many ways road cars are probably more developed for their own purpose than racing cars.

I don't have a problem with overtaking but I have a problem with how a governing body which apparently knows nothing of actual physics or engineering legislates how overtaking should be done.

The regulations were drawn up by the teams as much as the FIA, especially as they relate to overtaking via the overtaking working group. And it was really the teams' remit to bring a knowledge of engineering to bear on the process.

To me it's like sitting in a chair in a locked room with clever people. We all have our arms and legs bound whilst a big fat buzzy blue bottle endlessly circles the room. Our words are as meaningless to the fly as is its purpose to us.

:lol:

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I was actually thinking of the safety issue today of having cars with that much power. And I think I came up with a pretty decent idea even if it may sound comical and would be pretty comical to watch, and it would even work with today's tracks.

EJECTION SEATS

ok sounds stupid to begin with but think of it. there are 0-0 ejection seats, which means it will safely bring a person to the ground at o mph and o feet above the ground. if you mount such a seat into a car and provide a program that knows exactly the speed/trajectory of the car, the runoff areas of the track and can then calculate at what speed the car will hit the wall. once it has figured all of this out it can then decide if the driver could stay in the car or if the computer needed to fire the ejection seat and clear the driver before the car hit the wall. Any ejection seat firing would cause an automatic safety car just to make it even safer. sure it would be heavy but it would be worth the safety of the driver

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I was actually thinking of the safety issue today of having cars with that much power. And I think I came up with a pretty decent idea even if it may sound comical and would be pretty comical to watch, and it would even work with today's tracks.

EJECTION SEATS

ok sounds stupid to begin with but think of it. there are 0-0 ejection seats, which means it will safely bring a person to the ground at o mph and o feet above the ground. if you mount such a seat into a car and provide a program that knows exactly the speed/trajectory of the car, the runoff areas of the track and can then calculate at what speed the car will hit the wall. once it has figured all of this out it can then decide if the driver could stay in the car or if the computer needed to fire the ejection seat and clear the driver before the car hit the wall. Any ejection seat firing would cause an automatic safety car just to make it even safer. sure it would be heavy but it would be worth the safety of the driver

Sounds like a plan stan!

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I was actually thinking of the safety issue today of having cars with that much power. And I think I came up with a pretty decent idea even if it may sound comical and would be pretty comical to watch, and it would even work with today's tracks.

EJECTION SEATS

ok sounds stupid to begin with but think of it. there are 0-0 ejection seats, which means it will safely bring a person to the ground at o mph and o feet above the ground. if you mount such a seat into a car and provide a program that knows exactly the speed/trajectory of the car, the runoff areas of the track and can then calculate at what speed the car will hit the wall. once it has figured all of this out it can then decide if the driver could stay in the car or if the computer needed to fire the ejection seat and clear the driver before the car hit the wall. Any ejection seat firing would cause an automatic safety car just to make it even safer. sure it would be heavy but it would be worth the safety of the driver

Yup an interesting theory and perhaps in the future it will happen. I don't think it will guarantee the safety of unregulated cars however. What happens if a car flies over another one (like DC in Melbourne 07, I think) or rolls over by itself (like Kubi in Montreal 07, I think). Very nice idea nevertheless.

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Ejection seats

Expensive, heavy and limited use - could also put a driver into the path of another car. Many of the serious accidents involve lateral movement (e.g. Senna's fatal crash, Hakinnen's bang into the wall, Ratzenberger's fatal crash). In such a situation, the driver + seat will be moving sideways, so in the event of an ejection that would go sideways too and in some cases, could make the situation worse (e.g. you could eject into a tree/bridge.)

Many fatal accidents involve the car going upside down or sideways. An ejection seat would definitely not help then :D

You have the risk of accidental firing ( :D with the unreliability of some teams' systems, would you place your faith in their ejection seat?) They'd be popping off like corks in Monaco - If they attached streamers to them they could be quite a show :D

The c#ckpit is actually the safest place to be these days.

IMHO if you are going to improve safety, use air bags to cushion driver lateral/forward movement. Difficult again, but proven technology, cheap, relatively lightweight and effective.

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Many fatal accidents involve the car going upside down or sideways. An ejection seat would definitely not help then :D

Well. Suppose the car went upside down and you ejected. I think if you're left sitting in the middle of the track the guy behind you won't win either.

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Ejection seats?

I agree that improving safety in F1 is always good. As much as I enjoyed the old days I don't want them back at the prize of killing drivers, crew members or bystanders.

But...ejection seats? Geez, nowadays, an F1 car at full speed is safer than a Renault 4 parked at a garage. I don't think safety is precisely the point were F1 needs top priority improvement.

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I'm enjoying F1 this year more than most. Principly because Lewis is having a hard time.

Quite a fan of Button as well and that helps.

I like the BBC coverage.

The Stewards interfering has always been part of it and actually without those decisions, we'd have very little to talk about on here.

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I am sure it would hurt if the driver is ejected in the wrong direction! :D , if a driver hits another driver's wheels and the car tilts a bit and then the programe decides to eject him, he would stick to the side barriers like some poster! :P ...or if the car suddenly turns upside down and the driver is ejected in US GP, he may be sent to Shanghai :lol: .....

Actually the drivers will need to be shot high enough in the air for the parachute to slow him down to bring him in one piece.

Secondly we need to keep in mind about the position of driver's legs while he is seated in the car, while ejecting it may block, or even if they can somehow make it colapsible it can challenge the rigidity of the car's structure itself. Correct me if I am wrong.

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And it's quite interesting that there's been much more R&D investment in developing your Passat than an F1 car, so in many ways road cars are probably more developed for their own purpose than racing cars.

Mmmm. Cup holders.

Edit: Why would anyone actually want to drive a Passat? Let alone own one.

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Well. Suppose the car went upside down and you ejected.

Or in the tunnel at Monaco.......... Ouch.

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Secondly we need to keep in mind about the position of driver's legs while he is seated in the car, while ejecting it may block, or even if they can somehow make it colapsible it can challenge the rigidity of the car's structure itself. Correct me if I am wrong.

Ah you make another good point. Having sat in an F1 car (yes it was a real one with an engine on, no the engine was not switched on and OK it was a Footwork), I can testify that there is not a lot of room and you are lying down quite flat. Not sure how an ejection seat would deal with your legs unless the body work is messed around with which would only compromise its rigidity.

....and as Rob Smedley/Andres says, there are more important things to fix in F1 - ooh kill two "birds" with one stone and use Max/Bernie as the test pilots of the new ejection seat :D

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Ah you make another good point. Having sat in an F1 car (yes it was a real one with an engine on, no the engine was not switched on and OK it was a Footwork), I can testify that there is not a lot of room and you are lying down quite flat. Not sure how an ejection seat would deal with your legs unless the body work is messed around with which would only compromise its rigidity.

....and as Rob Smedley/Andres says, there are more important things to fix in F1 - ooh kill two "birds" with one stone and use Max/Bernie as the test pilots of the new ejection seat :D

I sat in Kimi's F-2007... :P , I don't know if it had an engine though!

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Mmmm. Cup holders.

Edit: Why would anyone actually want to drive a Passat? Let alone own one.

:lol:

Yes I see your very well-made point. But there's also more profound research done at VW that makes its way into their road cars, and is much more innovative and useful than most of the stuff in F1. As probably everyone knows, I think 'innovation' in F1 is a bit of a gimmick. It might sound more exciting than cup holders but mainly in the same way that science classes are fun to kids only if they blow something up. In reality there's probably a whole team of people at Ferrari who design 1000 minutely different rear wings every year, using by now very mundane methods developed by real scientists. It's just high speed cup holders with no more usefulness or ingenuity.

Or in the tunnel at Monaco.......... Ouch.

:lol:

Yup.

Ah you make another good point. Having sat in an F1 car (yes it was a real one with an engine on, no the engine was not switched on and OK it was a Footwork), I can testify that there is not a lot of room and you are lying down quite flat. Not sure how an ejection seat would deal with your legs unless the body work is messed around with which would only compromise its rigidity.

I suggest you get ejected out through the nose of the car. You can just slide down through the nose at high speed. You'd have a soft landing in the tyre wall in front too.

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:lol:

Yes I see your very well-made point. But there's also more profound research done at VW that makes its way into their road cars, and is much more innovative and useful than most of the stuff in F1. As probably everyone knows, I think 'innovation' in F1 is a bit of a gimmick. It might sound more exciting than cup holders but mainly in the same way that science classes are fun to kids only if they blow something up. In reality there's probably a whole team of people at Ferrari who design 1000 minutely different rear wings every year, using by now very mundane methods developed by real scientists. It's just high speed cup holders with no more usefulness or ingenuity.

:lol:

Yup.

You are right Muzza oops..Max.

What I really like about Ferrari is the fact that they still remind people that they are more of a racing team rather than car manufactuers. They make road cars to support their Formula 1 programe....I am sure they can still make their cars more exiting than what they are right now with no involvement in F1, but then that extra stuff like F1 steering on a F430 Scuderia or a hint that Micheal was behind the development of so and so model draws more customers into their nets, belive it or not, despite the economic crisis their sales actually increased by 17.8 percent, (Even Lambos and Astons sold better I heard).

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@ Team Formula One, why did you change your username to The Rumble Strip??

Maybe he wanted to be more like me? :naughty:

Anyway, I'm loving this season so far.

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I disagree with you, Graham, as usual. There are some really revolutionary concepts under developement. The latest developement at Renault, for example, is the ejection car. It was conceived to protect one of t he team's most invaluable assets: the car.

Let's assume, for example, that Piquet is driving (could be Piquet or could be Nando...nah, Piquet) if when he is about to crash, Briatore can press a buton which will send the car flying to safety after a parachute with the team colors is deployed.

Meanwhile, Piquet will remain travelling in the same direction attached to a state of the art seat (see picture) which will keep him reasonably safe with no other side effects worse than those of being hit on the head with a cricket bat.

hhchairtie.jpg

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