30-mil Budget Cap

[monza gorilla 1]

Turbo. Non turbo. That was 2 tier.

[HandyNZL 1]

Turbo. Non turbo. That was 2 tier.

Yes it was...caused by budgetary reasons between those with and without sponsors....but that was really the only difference....the rules then allowed for either engine...not one or the other based on the budget you chose to sign up for with the FIA. Like I have said elsewhere...let the sponsors set the caps...if they reduce spending then ergo QED the teams will also reduce spending. Any new sponsorship signings will be of lower value today than last year, and most likely lower again next year. This will reduce team spending without FIA muddling. F1 is lagging the world economy at the moment, but in a year or two they will be operating on half the budget as sponsorship deals come to an end.

Do you really think Santander is going to give Ferrari the same amount they gave Macca? No. It will be less. So Ferrari must do less of something somewhere. Or get more sponsors.

[monza gorilla 1]

You're right, but that's not the point I'm making.

[yurp 0]

You'll remember that they used to fill up the grid with F2 cars. Sort of a 2 tier system.

Turbo. Non turbo. That was 2 tier.

monza - this is tongue in cheek - yes?

[monza gorilla 1]

It's the only way I know.

But.

It shows that a 2 tier system has occurred in the past, whether it be in terms of cost or technology or performance. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Unfortunately I've forgotten what I was on about to begin with. Probably that I agreed with Sean.

[Max Mosley 2]

Can't see what all the fuss is about. The rules are the same for everyone because they can choose whether to obey the budget cap or not. It's all a sham anyway: we won't have much more ludicrous results under any system than Brawn leading the WCC.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Pah, sounds like sour grapes

Not sure why people feel the Brawn situation is such an injustice. You have:

- One of the best engines on the grid

- In a car that was designed very cleverly to take maximum advantage of the rules

- Run by someone who has a track record of delivering WDCs and WCCs

- With highly experience drivers who have won races and run up near the front of the pack

Why should it therefore be "flukey" or such a surprise/problem if they are doing well? Basically Brawn has caught the others napping and I say good luck to him.

[Insider 0]

Can't see what all the fuss is about. The rules are the same for everyone because they can choose whether to obey the budget cap or not. It's all a sham anyway: we won't have much more ludicrous results under any system than Brawn leading the WCC.

Pooh. BGP spent eighteen months and millions of pounds developing it's 2009 car. It was built under the direction of one of the finest technical brains in F1 and is driven by one of the top drivers in the world. Did you think it would come last?

[Max Mosley 2]

That Button and Barrichello have ten times the points of drivers Brawn himself rates more highly is a bit farcical to me. The situation isn't helped by the fact that they are there largely because of the ambiguity in the rules, and partly because their team decided to compete only in alternate seasons. Ross probably brings the grand total of fine technical brains in his team to one, so there can't be much ingenuity involved.

Still, I don't have a problem with them - the point was simply that they haven't really beaten the others within the spirit of the competition, and is it really any less artificial than having a so-called 2 tier system.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Still, I don't have a problem with them - the point was simply that they haven't really beaten the others within the spirit of the competition, and is it really any less artificial than having a so-called 2 tier system.

Nonsense you're going to have to change your name to Flabbio.

There's no "spirit of competition"; that's a myth created by the lawyers. Every team would give their right arms to find a technical gain not picked up by the others and in Brawn's position would so the same. What's more most of the have, do and will continue to do so. History is littered with teams that have done this, inc. some of the teams that bleated loudest. Spirit of competition? Bad losers, more like.

If they didn't do this then I'd have to question their competitiveness and quality of their engineers.

And how come Brawn's "spirit of competition" is still faster than that of Williams and Toyota???

Nope sorry Graham, plainly and simply Brawn has gained the edge through hard work, planning, research and thinking. And on that basis they deserve the points they get..

[Insider 0]

That Button and Barrichello have ten times the points of drivers Brawn himself rates more highly is a bit farcical to me. The situation isn't helped by the fact that they are there largely because of the ambiguity in the rules, and partly because their team decided to compete only in alternate seasons. Ross probably brings the grand total of fine technical brains in his team to one, so there can't be much ingenuity involved.

Still, I don't have a problem with them - the point was simply that they haven't really beaten the others within the spirit of the competition, and is it really any less artificial than having a so-called 2 tier system.

I didn't know Ross had published a list of his favourite drivers. He's always complimentary about good drivers, not least, his No. 1 man, Jenson. Do you think JB got the ride because he came cheap? All forms of regulation ambiguity have been exploited since F1 began and always will be. Ross inherited a project that was already well under way. Joerg Zander is a very good man indeed but I'm not too crazy about Loic Bigois as an aerodynamicist. He's been at seven teams in thirteen years. I'm not impressed with that but Brawn kept most of the team he inherited and you can bet he vetted them rigorously. Of course, the decision to push on with the 09 car throughout 08 was an advantage but others could have taken it too. BGP weren't alone in interpreting the diffuser rules in a different way to others. The big teams had their heads elsewhere and have quite rightly, to my mind, been left behind. The BGP001 has been ruled 'legal' by three sets of steward and the FIA's Court of Appeal. People just need to get over themselves. The 'Spirit' of the competition is the stuff that's in the bottle they give you when you win - that's the way I see it, anyway.

[Rainmaster 7]

The spirit of the competition is to win; Brawn designed the best car within the rules so deserve their trophies.

The victory would be sweeter had the FIA made the regulations clearer, earlier. Not sure who is to blame for that, the teams or the FIA, but it does stand true. Brawn's improvement still stands as well but the question will always be: had the regs been clearer from the start, for everyone, would they have such an advantage? Probably not.

[HandyNZL 1]

Pooh. BGP spent eighteen months and millions of pounds developing it's 2009 car. It was built under the direction of one of the finest technical brains in F1 and is driven by one of the top drivers in the world. Did you think it would come last?

With a Honda engine, yes.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

.

[riseofstars 0]

i dont think brawn gp cars with honda engines would have come last...mercedes engines are really good but honda engines were not bad...i think their engine was as good as that of renault and toyota's...

[HandyNZL 1]

Hmmmm....but since the engines can't be modified season on season, and the revs were dropped, and going on the history of them coming last....well.....one can only draw certain conclusions!