Oli 1 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 Indeed it is not good for the sport (the whole saga) but the lack of a draconian penalty is a good thing imo (and probably Mclaren's ).Mosley says it best > "We think it's entirely fair. They've demonstrated there's a complete culture change and under those circumstances it's better to put the whole thing behind us". (Source) Though I hate to do this since Murray will never let me forget it, I agree with Max. This isn't a court of law. It's an entertainment show. It's on a par with the guy who coughed to win Who Wants To Be A Millionaire (ok maybe not quite, but I just thought of that analogy and I'm reluctant to let it go). What's done is done- 90% of the people who watch F1 have already forgotten about it. Of course if it transpires that McLaren haven't "demonstrated there's a complete culture change" then I reserve the right to use this as evidence of Max's poor judgment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 It's an entertainment show. Yep. If only some around here kept this simple thought in mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 The thing is that these same guys got fined $100 million for, among other things, lying through their teeth. In fact, they were not kicked out of F1 because of a "full admission of guilt" letter.Obviously McLaren didn't learn from that "mistake" or that penalty. It's a lost cause. It may be a case of not wanting to push Mclaren and Mercedes any further in these difficult economic times. They are extremely valuable to the sport, as winners and as losers. They already are at the edge of the cliff.. F1 needs them, the other teams need them, the fans need them. I say let 'em stay and get beaten on track. That's what everybody wants to see from any big team! Teams/driver haters make the sport more exciting whether we like it or not Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 It may be a case of not wanting to push Mclaren and Mercedes any further in these difficult economic times.They are extremely valuable to the sport, as winners and as losers. They already are at the edge of the cliff.. F1 needs them, the other teams need them, the fans need them. I say let 'em stay and get beaten on track. That's what everybody wants to see from any big team! Teams/driver haters make the sport more exciting whether we like it or not I hear ya. This is not a legal court after all so it's not as if precedence matters. It's unlikely another team will take advantage of the "happy hour" open up by FIA. Still. A 2, 3 race ban was called for. Honda was given such not that long ago for cheating... and they did not even get benefit out of the cheating. It's odd that FIA takes the punch in the face for this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oli 1 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 Like everybody else, F1 needs to ride the wave of hideousness that is this economy. Once things start picking up again the FIA will be a bit less impotent. Maybe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 Once things start picking up again the FIA will be a bit less impotent. Maybe. It's Xmas already? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 I hear ya. This is not a legal court after all so it's not as if precedence matters. It's unlikely another team will take advantage of the "happy hour" open up by FIA.Still. A 2, 3 race ban was called for. Honda was given such not that long ago for cheating... and they did not even get benefit out of the cheating. It's odd that FIA takes the punch in the face for this. It was in 2005 when BAR were given a 2-3 race ban for having illegal parts on the car or was found to be underweight, or both! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 Hopefully we can return to the racing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikathegreat2 2 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 Hopefully we can return to the racing.That might'nt happen for quite some time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 I'm happy with the punishment really. To take things away from the fans is not good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 Yep.If only some around here kept this simple thought in mind. Must be awful for you Maure - no Ron to blame and Lewis was exhonorated, you'll just have to hate all of McLaren as well as FIA you penaltyisteric I think that on this one the FIA were caught between a rock and a hard place in that I believe Mercedes had a word in Max's ear - if things had gone badly for McLaren I think Mercedes/Vodafone would have quit and Lewis would have moved teams. It would also have knackered up was has so far this year been quite a good season. To be honest any serious penalty leading to this would be bad for F1. Plus in the eyes of the public more court-room crap is just going to turn people off. Was it favourable to Macca? Well they are under a suspended ban into next season so have to keep their noses clean. They have lost Ron (whether you like him or not) - someone who has had a key input into theit success over the last couple of decades. They have lost another valued, key member of staff. McLaren lost points for the race which also has a financial penalty as well as impact upon their WC standing. I should imagine Mercedes and Vodafone have also given the team a severe bollocking. Lewis has lost face and Mclaren too - they will also struggle to get new sponsors in an already tough market - who wants to be associated with a struggling team with all the recent bad press and issues with their image. Given that whilst stupid and bad, lie-gate was not the most serious issue - I mean look how Renault managed to miraculously escape from their own spy scandal unscathed..... But I do agree that Macca were complete idiots and deserve the pain. I am pleased though that they have not been strongly penalised as I do think the implications would have knackered up the show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 It was in 2005 when BAR were given a 2-3 race ban for having illegal parts on the car or was found to be underweight, or both! Yep. Could've been 2005. Something inside the fuel tank, I seem to remember. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 2005, two races, extra fuel tank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cinco 30 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 Hopefully we can return to the racing. That's what we should've done...after Australia. McLaren got their little DQ deal there, that's enough, move on...but no. FIA has to go and drag it out and ban a team for three races, and essentially four since the Aussie GP got erased, for something they did that impacted one race, and didn't even, because it was corrected and they received their penalties for it. I understand the whole what they did was bad part, but this is too harsh, and I wonder what kind of impact it'll have on the UK television audience, since I've always been under the impression there is a good number of Lewis Hamilton fan fads who don't care about the sport. Which, coincidentally, is exactly how the sanctioning body feels (though not love for Lewis, but they sure don't care about grand prix racing, either). I'll enjoy my F1, no matter what kind of controversy, because what else am I going to do? It's just a sport. But I will say it'd be highly preferrable and I may actually make the effort to watch it live in the mornings if there was a new sanctioning body, maybe something called FOTA, or something like that, not sure. Oh well, on to Spain... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 ^That would be my post, if we were in an alternate reality where Macca actually got a penalty! Suspended sentence Erico! As in nothing, unless they re-offend within the next 12 months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cinco 30 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 That's better. A little stupid (like me ) but better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 Must be awful for you Maure - no Ron to blame and Lewis was exhonorated, you'll just have to hate all of McLaren as well as FIA you penaltyisteric I think that on this one the FIA were caught between a rock and a hard place in that I believe Mercedes had a word in Max's ear - if things had gone badly for McLaren I think Mercedes/Vodafone would have quit and Lewis would have moved teams. It would also have knackered up was has so far this year been quite a good season. To be honest any serious penalty leading to this would be bad for F1. Plus in the eyes of the public more court-room crap is just going to turn people off. Was it favourable to Macca? Well they are under a suspended ban into next season so have to keep their noses clean. They have lost Ron (whether you like him or not) - someone who has had a key input into theit success over the last couple of decades. They have lost another valued, key member of staff. McLaren lost points for the race which also has a financial penalty as well as impact upon their WC standing. I should imagine Mercedes and Vodafone have also given the team a severe bollocking. Lewis has lost face and Mclaren too - they will also struggle to get new sponsors in an already tough market - who wants to be associated with a struggling team with all the recent bad press and issues with their image. Given that whilst stupid and bad, lie-gate was not the most serious issue - I mean look how Renault managed to miraculously escape from their own spy scandal unscathed..... But I do agree that Macca were complete idiots and deserve the pain. I am pleased though that they have not been strongly penalised as I do think the implications would have knackered up the show. Right-o Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 That's better. A little stupid (like me ) but better. Clearly you've been studying too many crappy English novels and your eyes are tired Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 [quote name='El Silenci Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 That's what we should've done...after Australia. McLaren got their little DQ deal there, that's enough, move on...but no. FIA has to go and drag it out and ban a team for three races, and essentially four since the Aussie GP got erased, for something they did that impacted one race, and didn't even, because it was corrected and they received their penalties for it. I understand the whole what they did was bad part, but this is too harsh, and I wonder what kind of impact it'll have on the UK television audience, since I've always been under the impression there is a good number of Lewis Hamilton fan fads who don't care about the sport. Which, coincidentally, is exactly how the sanctioning body feels (though not love for Lewis, but they sure don't care about grand prix racing, either).I'll enjoy my F1, no matter what kind of controversy, because what else am I going to do? It's just a sport. But I will say it'd be highly preferrable and I may actually make the effort to watch it live in the mornings if there was a new sanctioning body, maybe something called FOTA, or something like that, not sure. Oh well, on to Spain... Eric...is that you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kay 0 Report post Posted April 29, 2009 IIRC they could only pin BAR to negligence and lack of transparency; not cheating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jez 0 Report post Posted April 30, 2009 Everyone knows there's no such thing as a completely honest F1 team. So let's move on and go racing already! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oli 1 Report post Posted April 30, 2009 Don't worry. I won't rub it in. I always knew you'd be one of the first to see sense! Yes I'm glad you've been so gracious about it....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted April 30, 2009 Can someone please park on a bend whilst reading illegally acquired documents about a floor with a hole whilst dressed as a Nazi? If not, there will be nothing to talk about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted April 30, 2009 IIRC they could only pin BAR to negligence and lack of transparency; not cheating. Correct. They were found guilty of something they hadn't even been charged with. As were Tyrrell before them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
