la force supreme des mclaren

Mclaren Handed Suspended Ban

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I've been away for a couple of days - I come back to one locked topic and this one and several others heading that way - oh dear

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Yep. It's silly season again. Some threads polarise opinion like no others. Toys fall out of prams. Same old same old.

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I've been away for a couple of days - I come back to one locked topic and this one and several others heading that way - oh dear

Someone came back, didnt they.... :bag:

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Yes I'm glad you've been so gracious about it....... :lol:

Just kidding. :P

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Must be awful for you Maure - no Ron to blame and Lewis was exhonorated, you'll just have to hate all of McLaren as well as FIA you penaltyisteric :D

Sure. Some posters have explicitly stated their hatred for drivers and posters. I'm not one of them... no matter how desperately you want to make yourself believe it.

I think that on this one the FIA were caught between a rock and a hard place in that I believe Mercedes had a word in Max's ear - if things had gone badly for McLaren I think Mercedes/Vodafone would have quit and Lewis would have moved teams. It would also have knackered up was has so far this year been quite a good season. To be honest any serious penalty leading to this would be bad for F1. Plus in the eyes of the public more court-room crap is just going to turn people off.

Was it favourable to Macca?

Well they are under a suspended ban into next season so have to keep their noses clean. They have lost Ron (whether you like him or not) - someone who has had a key input into theit success over the last couple of decades. They have lost another valued, key member of staff.

McLaren lost points for the race which also has a financial penalty as well as impact upon their WC standing. I should imagine Mercedes and Vodafone have also given the team a severe bollocking.

Lewis has lost face and Mclaren too - they will also struggle to get new sponsors in an already tough market - who wants to be associated with a struggling team with all the recent bad press and issues with their image.

Given that whilst stupid and bad, lie-gate was not the most serious issue - I mean look how Renault managed to miraculously escape from their own spy scandal unscathed.....

But I do agree that Macca were complete idiots and deserve the pain.

I am pleased though that they have not been strongly penalised as I do think the implications would have knackered up the show.

In short. Lying to disqualify another driver and steal a podium is ok by you.

And, btw, McLaren has not been penalized _at_all_ (losing their stolen points is no penalty). Your delirium over "not been strongly penalised" is absurd.

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IMO they should have had some kind of penalty with teeth - loss of points, 2-3 week ban (not suspended), but hey, this way it gives the drama some extra legs which will help commentators and journalists around the world when they're struggling for copy - joy.

For McLaren - it'll help them stay in vague contention this season.

For the FIA - it's a way of them saying, we 'punished them', without actually doing so.

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I'm still waiting to hear what the penalty for the stewards is going to be :whistling:

Funny.

Although as reward, they might be allowed to excuse themselves from Mosley's next orgy...

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Well, Maure, Hamilton did lose points he had earned, the ones for 4th in Australia which was at least his rightly deserved place before all the lying. So he did lose points.

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I read this as "It's OK to lie as long as you are not caught. If you are caught, just say you are REALLY REALLY sorry and you will not do it again. Then make sure you don't get caught in a 12-month period." I guess the alternate is to say that a dog ate your homework...

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I read this as "It's OK to lie as long as you are not caught. If you are caught, just say you are REALLY REALLY sorry and you will not do it again. Then make sure you don't get caught in a 12-month period." I guess the alternate is to say that a dog ate your homework...

It's worked in the past for other teams too.

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Well, Maure, Hamilton did lose points he had earned, the ones for 4th in Australia which was at least his rightly deserved place before all the lying. So he did lose points.

I reckon it would've been too much to let him keep them.

Come on, freaky, that's no penalty...

I read this as "It's OK to lie as long as you are not caught. If you are caught, just say you are REALLY REALLY sorry and you will not do it again. Then make sure you don't get caught in a 12-month period." I guess the alternate is to say that a dog ate your homework...

It's not preposterous enough.

I would rather say that this is like the kid that, many years ago, comes to my class (after missing several though out the semester) and tells me that his grandmother has died... again.

Like this situation, it still makes me smile.

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It's worked in the past for other teams too.

The late Murray has also been working the "everyone does it" angle...

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I reckon it would've been too much to let him keep them.

Come on, freaky, that's no penalty...

I was just stating the facts. That was the thing he deserved in the first place and if he deserved something more (which I'm quite inclined to think after all the lying) I think it should have repercuted only on McLaren or on his next race, a 10 place grid penalty or something, what do I know. But to not let them go racing wasn't in my preferred options so I'm not complaining about what they got.

Though I don't find that losing Dennis and Ryan can be considered a "punishment" in any sense of the word... just a logical consequence.

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I was just stating the facts. That was the thing he deserved in the first place and if he deserved something more (which I'm quite inclined to think after all the lying) I think it should have repercuted only on McLaren or on his next race, a 10 place grid penalty or something, what do I know. But to not let them go racing wasn't in my preferred options so I'm not complaining about what they got.

Though I don't find that losing Dennis and Ryan can be considered a "punishment" in any sense of the word... just a logical consequence.

Do follow that line of thinking, that is, why has FIA put together all this investigation "theater"?

Once it was found that Hamilton had lied, taking the points off was a given. In fact, it could've ended the affair cleanly, effectively right there and then.

Why, then, make all this fuss and then bring it to nothing?

One could infer that the lying affair dropped in Ecclestone's lap and he decided to use it for other purposes. If this were the case, the likely target would be RD and the reasons could be several. RD lied to everyone in 2007 and this could've been payback. Or, perhaps, taking down RD was a warning shot to other teambosses.

In any case, the FIA "hearing" was a joke whose only accomplishment has been to have many of us laughing at them.

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Balance:

McLaren losses: RD & DR. Both playing pivotal roles in the team. Team will survive, but it will never be the way it was. Hamilton and MW lost a great deal of credibility. They will have to work hard to earn it.

Mercedes and sponsors increased pressure towards the WSMC to lessen the punishment, but I am sure they must have given their McLaren partners some words of caution: "You guys screw up again and we will leave you. We have BGP which sells more and look better than you losers" ;)

McLaren wins: FIA didn't gave them any actual punishment. The previous items, as Tanita pointed out, were things that they brought upon themselves. Basically, they lied in the face of FIA with a clear and actual harm to another team and only got a minor slap on the wrist from the authority who was supposed to deliver the actual punishment.

Mosley/Bernie losses: Credibility and consistency, again. They got themselves into an impossible position and had to deliver a result which satisfies no one. Justice was not served nor sport was improved.

Mosley/Bernie wins: Sponsors are happy. They can move on and keep making money. They finally got rid of RD. Whitmarsh will lick their asses for a while, something useful to be used against the FOTA and in favor of the budget cap, for example.

General public losses: We were again showed that rules and such are of secondary importance amidst personal vendettas, monetary pressures and shadowy management. The whole issue was a farce from both sides and a shame to the sport.

General public wins: it's over, we can watch some pretend racing again and discuss in the forums till the hell freezes, which is fun. Not much more than that.

Edited by El Silenci

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Another angle is to presume that Max still believes he was set up by RD (spankgate) and this is his payback.

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Another angle is to presume that Max still believes he was set up by RD (spankgate) and this is his payback.

There is that. I think Mosley did say that he knows (or has an idea) who did it...

[quote name='El Silenci

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True.

:lol:

God that guy Murray (R.I.P., bless his holey socks and all that) was an idiot. I'm surprised to see you agreeing with him. You couldn't pay Andr

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...your first mistake when talking with Maure.

Hey, I have no problem with Maure. If I don't like some of his comments I can ignore them just as well as let's say Cav's unreasonable comments, etc. Here almost all of us have a quirk or two, I thought we all live with them?

Though I do wonder how maure's personality got that peculiar :lol:

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I read this as "It's OK to lie as long as you are not caught. If you are caught, just say you are REALLY REALLY sorry and you will not do it again. Then make sure you don't get caught in a 12-month period." I guess the alternate is to say that a dog ate your homework...

The FIA took the logical option and saw that there was nothing to be gained by punishing Mclaren. The idea of punishment in this context is to:

1) deter Mclaren from cheating again - check, Mclaren shouldn't cheat again as they have a suspended sentence hanging over them.

2) rehabilitate them so that they don't want to offend again - check, Mclaren demonstrated through the loss of Dennis and a change of culture that they were a changed team.

So what would be gained by punishing Mclaren any further?

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You don't believe in punishment in a sort of moral sense? Some would say if you do something wrong you deserve to lose something, that there ought to be a cost to wrong-doing. Just a question. Personally I think McLaren have already been punished by losing their points. And it's quite possible there was a whole subplot to this business the public will never know about and that might change everything.

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