HandyNZL

Fia 2010 Rules

88 posts in this topic

So the FIA has announced the new rules...

40mil pound budget cap (excludes flyaway costs for gear, and 20-economy class return tickets, driver monies, hospitality and "anything that doesn't affect the performance of the car")

No refuelling

No tyre warmers

Budget capped teams can have:

Unlimited engines

Unlimited revs

Unlimited out of season testing

Movable front and rear wings

Unlimited gearboxes

160HP KERS systems

Cars are to be 15kg heavier

26 car grid

Edited by HandyNZL

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My take:

No refuelling - good move...cars act differently under different fuel loads...and perhaps Q3 will be a light fuel run as all cars will be full to the brim at the start of the race

No tyre warmers - I guess if other forms of motorsport can survive without them, why not F1? Supposed to be the best drivers, right?

Heavier cars - meh....so what?

26 car grid - believe it when I see it, but if I do see it then all good!

Budget cap - 40-mil....I still think this is too low....the mere idea that you can have unlimited testing, unlimited engines etc etc all equals cost...still too low in my view - should be 80-mil - or somewhere around what Williams / RBR / Force India spends now (whatever the average is of those three teams)

Two-tier F1 championship - hmmm....bad...should be one set of rules....but I think even though the capped teams will have more freedom (movable rear wing...woohoo...thats sooooooo much more freedom) the non-capped teams are still going to wipe the floor clean and beat the other teams hands down....how do you develop a 160HP KERS in such a small budget when most of the teams can't manage it now on unlimited funds? You won't be buying one off a non-capped team...think the going price will be 39.95million.....

Also on the two tier championship, I guess it will be a bit like the 80's with the turbo/naturally aspirated cars....but unlike in those times when it p**sed down the nats were able to outdrive the turbos due to lower power output, the abilities of the well funded teams will keep them on par with an unlimited rev engine (which no doubt will blow up anyway)....so unless the non-capped teams are only allowed 6000rpm, there really is no incentive in my view for any team on the grid today to operate under a cap that is so low....

....and new teams coming in, will still not compete, will still find it impossible to find high paying sponsors, and will be lapped again and again and again.... (and don't counter that with Brawn, as Brawn is Honda....with a better engine...which had it had the Honda engine, would have been mid field if best)

Discuss my fellow nutters...

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So the FIA has announced the new rules...

40mil pound budget cap (excludes flyaway costs for gear, and 20-economy class return tickets, driver monies, hospitality and "anything that doesn't affect the performance of the car")

I have no problem with that

No refuelling

Good cost saving but removes an essential part of the spectacle - it is a show after all.

No tyre warmers

Idiotic from a safety point of view. First corner dodgem car scenario coming up!

Budget capped teams can have:

Unlimited engines

Unlimited revs

Unlimited out of season testing

Movable front and rear wings

Unlimited gearboxes

160HP KERS systems

Cars are to be 15kg heavier

26 car grid

All for that and it sells KERS to the teams. With no refuelling, all fuel-saving technology needs to be investigated. However, the R&D cost for this should be excluded from the budget cap.

Edited by Insider

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So, Sid, as a former F1 team employee, do you honestly believe you can put a competitive car on the grid for under 40-mil? Bearing in mind that your workforce of 100 or so will suck up most of the budget in the first instance, and the manufacture of three tubs at least, plus countless wings (especially if you hire Piquet Jnr)?

Does the 5-mil engine deal still exist with Cosworth? If so, then that is the cheapest deal you will get, but it is 1/8th of your budget gone in one simple tick....

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No refuelling

Good cost saving but removes an essential part of the spectacle - it is a show after all.

I beg to differ. Nowadays they do not have a pressure to change the wheels REALY fast because in the end the stop wil last as long as it takes to put the fuel in.

I rememnber the proper pit stop battles and it was much more of a spectacle than this is now.

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I beg not to differ ;)

I too remember the non-refueling days - seems like only yesterday.

I didn't appreciate the change at the time, but now I figure that the tactical battle with fueling loads and Q3 done on race fuel adds to the interest and strategy.

I don't like the fact that they're publishing the fuel loads this season - that bugs.

But most important...

I figure - let them complete race distance in the fastest possible time they can - this is a race after all. If that means refueling to keep cars light and thus go faster (which it does), then so be it - not allowing refueling is basically going to lead to slower races.

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I beg not to differ ;)

I too remember the non-refueling days - seems like only yesterday.

I didn't appreciate the change at the time, but now I figure that the tactical battle with fueling loads and Q3 done on race fuel adds to the interest and strategy.

I don't like the fact that they're publishing the fuel loads this season - that bugs.

But most important...

I figure - let them complete race distance in the fastest possible time they can - this is a race after all. If that means refueling to keep cars light and thus go faster (which it does), then so be it - not allowing refueling is basically going to lead to slower races.

It's also an engineering challenge. This will force them to use kers more to take the place of lost fuel load. Could be the best change on the list.

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The tyre blankets ban still seems quite silly to me, bad for safety and the cost save is negligible.

The two-tier system is the worst change, not that I think it'll happen, but it seems an incredibly dumb idea. Look at this season, all the BS over some teams with diffusers, some without, some with Kers, some without. A two-tier championship is bad for F1 in every sense.

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No refuelling-less drama

No tyre warmers-lot of understeer & smoky tyres @ the start

Budget capped teams can have:

Unlimited engines-nice

Unlimited revs-very nice

Unlimited out of season testing-should keep Badoer happy

Movable front and rear wings-were'nt they the reason why Toyota gots grid penalties @ Melbourne

Unlimited gearboxes-is this really cost cutting measures

160HP KERS systems-ooooh

Cars are to be 15kg heavier-grrrr

26 car grid-Prodrive-Aston Martin & Lola-Aston Martin to join next year. Driver predictions: Tomas Enge & Darren Turner for Lola, de la Rosa & maybe Marcus Gronholm for Prodrive.

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We used to have another interesting variable that was removed - a second tyre supplier.

Bringing that back in could be a cheaper/simpler way of mixing things up than fiddling with the rules. (again)

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So the FIA has announced the new rules...

40mil pound budget cap (excludes flyaway costs for gear, and 20-economy class return tickets, driver monies, hospitality and "anything that doesn't affect the performance of the car")

No refuelling

No tyre warmers

Budget capped teams can have:

Unlimited engines

Unlimited revs

Unlimited out of season testing

Movable front and rear wings

Unlimited gearboxes

160HP KERS systems

Cars are to be 15kg heavier

26 car grid

I'm a fan. Of each and every one of these. My only complaint is not making the budget mandatory. I think F1 would be really interesting if every team had it, though with the incentives and the raise, perhaps we will see them all do it. And it works for USF1...instead of those $64,000,000 they "have without sponsorship," they'll only need to pretend to have $59,000,000 now.

Tire warmers...never used in CART. CART cars were a bit slower (I don't think CART shared any tracks with F1 until Montreal in the 2000s, when Champ Cars weren't exactly at their peak in relation to F1 technology), but still very fast...if you're a good driver, you can handle it. If you can't, who the hell put you in an F1 seat?

Edited by Cinco

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How can a two tier system work.

Where else do you get that.

On a bus. :)

Anyway, interesting article from Planet F1. Boy oh boy have Ferrari and FIA fallen out:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5263245,00.html

Ferrari look to be on a collision course with the FIA after the team's president reportedly warned of possible legal action should the budget cap go ahead, resulting in an "unfair" and "biased" Championship.

Despite choosing not to publicly comment on the FIA's

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I'm not convinced about no refuelling...

I like the quali rule,though.

Can anyone tell me what the two tier system is,in 2 lines, 1 maximum? :D I'm too lazy to read or look up or anything... hangover,what a cruel punishment for having enjoyed a little bit too much...

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Can anyone tell me what the two tier system is,in 2 lines, 1 maximum? :D I'm too lazy to read or look up or anything... hangover,what a cruel punishment for having enjoyed a little bit too much...

Yep: 2 types of cars competing - cars as of now, with technical restrictions, no budget caps + budget capped cars with very few technical restrictions. Issue is that with two very different setups one type of car is going to wee all over the others so getting parity will be difficult.

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So, Sid, as a former F1 team employee, do you honestly believe you can put a competitive car on the grid for under 40-mil? Bearing in mind that your workforce of 100 or so will suck up most of the budget in the first instance, and the manufacture of three tubs at least, plus countless wings (especially if you hire Piquet Jnr)?

Does the 5-mil engine deal still exist with Cosworth? If so, then that is the cheapest deal you will get, but it is 1/8th of your budget gone in one simple tick....

Been away - sorry. I said

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On a bus. :)

Anyway, interesting article from Planet F1. Boy oh boy have Ferrari and FIA fallen out:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5263245,00.html

Ferrari look to be on a collision course with the FIA after the team's president reportedly warned of possible legal action should the budget cap go ahead, resulting in an "unfair" and "biased" Championship.

Despite choosing not to publicly comment on the FIA's

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I beg to differ. Nowadays they do not have a pressure to change the wheels REALY fast because in the end the stop wil last as long as it takes to put the fuel in.

I rememnber the proper pit stop battles and it was much more of a spectacle than this is now.

Yeah, but it's cool when you see the odd fire here and there - just kidding!

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It's also an engineering challenge. This will force them to use kers more to take the place of lost fuel load. Could be the best change on the list.

I see refueling as an engineering challange too. ;)

Your point about KERS is true - could this just be extra incentive to use a technology that, so far, has had a far smaller impact than the FIA would have wanted? Like I've said before - they should take the per lap limit away from KERS bhp and let the teams REALLY develop a good system, rather than hobbling them as they are now - it's ridiculous. Currently they are saying... "You can use KERS to add extra boost to your car, but you can only use it enough to make up for the lap time lost due to it's weight." Silly.

We used to have another interesting variable that was removed - a second tyre supplier.

Bringing that back in could be a cheaper/simpler way of mixing things up than fiddling with the rules. (again)

V. True

Yep: 2 types of cars competing - cars as of now, with technical restrictions, no budget caps + budget capped cars with very few technical restrictions. Issue is that with two very different setups one type of car is going to wee all over the others so getting parity will be difficult.

Yep - next year we'll have teams taking a guess at which way to go. The year after that, everyone will opt the best way and we'll be back to a single tier system. Unless the FIA continually **** with the limitations for the capped teams, making it easier and harder to compete depending on how competitive they are. That, in turn, will lead to even more bitching from teams on both sides - could we stand any more bitching?

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I can see a major upheaval coming to F1 in the next few weeks. There have been so many rules changes in the past three years that most technical departments are in a state of permanent dizziness and flux. The latest set of proposed regulation changes are purely a 'knee-jerk' reaction to the current global financial meltdown - they have little to do with racing. They do jack all for safety and nothing for competition, [unless a two-tier system develops, which it won't] and are once again, open to manipulation.

Are the whole of a team's workforce contributing to the car's performance or only some? Does that mean that admin, PR and non-technical staff's wages are excluded from the cap? Can you clarify that point, Max? No, of course you can't. This stuff is all written down on a paper napkin in some exotically-located, two-star Michelin restaurant over egg-white omelettes with goat's cheese and green peepers with little or no approval or discussion and absolutely no consultation with the teams.

The old adage still applies here: If it ain't broke, don't................ Someone mentioned the re-introduction of a second tyre supplier. Brilliant! Get them in. It's those kind of ideas I want to hear but they need to have some permanency. The R&D costs associated with the last set of changes alone, would probably cripple most competitors under the new proposals. Of course, the other point is how you police the myriad rules and regs changes that have been thrown into the ring in the past 36 months. The teams will be spending half the season in court!

I firmly believe FOTA may decide to break away from the twin dictatorships of FOM and the FIA and form their own series, firmly rooted in the spirit and heritage of F1 but with a weather eye on the financial climate. You just cannot have a near-octogenarian, megalomanic dwarf threatening to cut everyone's sweetie ration if they won't conform to the annual idiocy emanating from a regulatory body that has now lost their credibility and the respect of the main players. Max must be replaced by someone who is far less power hungry, more approachable and won't expose themselves to public ridicule through their sexual habits - set up or no. Any Team Principal or CEO who had been caught as Moseley was would have been cast aside like a spent tyre in an heartbeat.

With both Williams and McLaren-Mercedes now lining up with Ferrari's point of view, it won't be long before BMW, Renault, Toyota and probably RBR and BGP side with the Scuderia too. We've seen these confrontations before but I believe this is Waterloo.

Edited by Insider

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I can see a major upheaval coming to F1 in the next few weeks. There have been so many rules changes in the past three years that most technical departments are in a state of permanent dizziness and flux. The latest set of proposed regulation changes are purely a 'knee-jerk' reaction to the current global financial meltdown - they have little to do with racing. They do jack all for safety and nothing for competition, [unless a two-tier system develops, which it won't] and are once again, open to manipulation.

Are the whole of a team's workforce contributing to the car's performance or only some? Does that mean that admin, PR and non-technical staff's wages are excluded from the cap? Can you clarify that point, Max? No, of course you can't. This stuff is all written down on a paper napkin in some exotically-located, two-star Michelin restaurant over egg-white omelettes with goat's cheese and green peepers with little or no approval or discussion and absolutely no consultation with the teams.

The old adage still applies here: If it ain't broke, don't................ Someone mentioned the re-introduction of a second tyre supplier. Brilliant! Get them in. It's those kind of ideas I want to hear but they need to have some permanency. The R&D costs associated with the last set of changes alone, would probably cripple most competitors under the new proposals. Of course, the other point is how you police the myriad rules and regs changes that have been thrown into the ring in the past 36 months. The teams will be spending half the season in court!

I firmly believe FOTA may decide to break away from the twin dictatorships of FOM and the FIA and form their own series, firmly rooted in the spirit and heritage of F1 but with a weather eye on the financial climate. You just cannot have a near-octogenarian, megalomanic dwarf threatening to cut everyone's sweetie ration if they won't conform to the annual idiocy emanating from a regulatory body that has now lost their credibility and the respect of the main players. Max must be replaced by someone who is far less power hungry, more approachable and won't expose themselves to public ridicule through their sexual habits - set up or no. Any Team Principal or CEO who had been caught as Moseley was would have been cast aside like a spent tyre in an heartbeat.

With both Williams and McLaren-Mercedes now lining up with Ferrari's point of view, it won't be long before BMW, Renault, Toyota and probably RBR and BGP side with the Scuderia too. We've seen these confrontations before but I believe this is Waterloo.

I agree with you Sid.....hey maybe we are of the same ilk????

Max says this is so there can be new entrants into F1.....what, can they not set their own budgets?

Max and Bernie are dinosaurs....their time is very nearly up. And it may be sooner than some think.

I for one would watch a championship featuring Williams, Macca, Ferrari over any one missing them. Whether the series was blessed by the FIA or not.

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I agree with you Sid.....hey maybe we are of the same ilk????

Max says this is so there can be new entrants into F1.....what, can they not set their own budgets?

Max and Bernie are dinosaurs....their time is very nearly up. And it may be sooner than some think.

I for one would watch a championship featuring Williams, Macca, Ferrari over any one missing them. Whether the series was blessed by the FIA or not.

What is an 'ilk'? Is it a sort of chatroom for Elk?

Edited by Insider

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Moseley's arrogance knows no bounds, it seems. He told the FT: 'F1 can survive without Ferrari' and that Ferrari couldn't justify a war with the FIA to FIAT, if it meant spending another

Edited by Insider

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I also forgot about USF1 entering next year! My Predictions, Monty & Marco Andretti to be the drivers, if not Andretti, Romain Dumas or Scott Dixon!

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