Spanish Gp Race Thread

[pumpdoc 2]

Bend over Rubens and take it like you did for Schumi, Brawn has not changed his ways. Sad indeed, at least Schumi threw Rubens a bone now and again.

[sliderule 0]

Bend over Rubens and take it like you did for Schumi, Brawn has not changed his ways. Sad indeed, at least Schumi threw Rubens a bone now and again.

Yeah!! a bone...

[Argento Reloaded 1]

DOD spanish GP: Massa and Rubens. Why? Massa made a big effort against a bad car and a bad team; 10 final laps were a kind of requiem for Domenicalli and his crew.... Rubens was screwed up by Ross again. Ross doesn

[yurp 0]

To my mind the race wasn't that boring really. Okay - it wasn't full of thrills, but this is the Spanish GP here - who expected otherwise?

As for the Barichello issues. I'm not deciding whether he's being given a fair go from Brawn yet or not. I'll reserve judgement for now and wait until the next few GP's. If similar decisions are made to his detriment, then it's possible, but immediatly assuming that he's being deliberately slowed by Brawn is jumping the gun. If we make those kind of assumptions after 1 race's poor tactical decision, then we have to assume that Ferrari want neither of their drivers to win.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that its too early to tell right away.

Another thing to consider - had Barrichello been on a 2 stopper he wouldn't have had the pace he had throughout Sunday since he would have been on heavier fuel. To say that a 3 stopper was deliberately used to slow him is forgetting this important factor. He was fast throughout Sunday yes, but the assumption that he would have won on a 2 stopper ignors the fact that he wouldn't have been nearly as fast with a fuel heavy car.

Let's wait and see is all I'm saying. If the same kind of decisions hamper him over the next few races when he could be taking a victory from Button, then we can start to cry foul.

Until then it's just wild conspiracy theories with no real foundation.

[Insider 0]

I've looked at the times and yes Rosberg would have slowed Button for 7 crucial laps.

No favouritism just sour grapes.

Thank you Kay. I hope that explains things to Mr Senna. With both JB and Ross vehemently denying there were any 'team orders' in play, one can only say, Jens had a strategy that worked, Rubens didn't. Both plans had merit but Button's execution of his was more successful. End of.

EDIT: This should clear this subject up. Rubens talking to Speed TV. Forget the sensational headline.

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/305...it_over_Button/

[freaky2 1]

I thought that maybe it would have been more interesting with the commentary but I see that it wasn't. Still have to see the last 2 overtakes, I had a plane to catch and it was being a borefest so I figured that if I missed the last 7 laps or so something interesting would happen to look forward to when I got home

I still haven't figured out where did Webber appear from but that was good, definitely my choice for DoD. Vettel has to look into his starts, and even more now that we're moving to tracks where you can't overtake at all.

Ferrari suck. When it's not the drivers it's the realiability, when it isn't eiter it's the strategy... maybe they need a sabbatical to think extensively about why they suck (because they can't even figure that one out).

[Kay 0]

Thank you Kay. I hope that explains things to Mr Senna. With both JB and Ross vehemently denying there were any 'team orders' in play, one can only say, Jens had a strategy that worked, Rubens didn't. Both plans had merit but Button's execution of his was more successful. End of.

EDIT: This should clear this subject up. Rubens talking to Speed TV. Forget the sensational headline.

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/305...it_over_Button/

Indeed Rubens couldn't make his strategy work because he was too slow in his second and third stint. Button was incredible in his middle stint and that gave him the win.

Still people want to feel Rubens was robbed. I suspect if the bad call in qualifying had been with Rubens and he had missed it then there would be cries of Rubens losing his pole.

It was his race to lose and he did. Once he looks at the lap times he will see.

Button looked concerned because he had got his set up from Rubens and then beaten him with it.

Why would Rubens allow a three stop that he had done the previous race if it wasn't any good? Does Rubens have a short memory or maybe saw that without traffic it could really work? That the traffic that affected him in Bahrain was going to affect Button in Spain and they were not going to make the same mistake twice.

If Piquet was on a three stop and Alonso on a two and he lost it, it would be useless Piquet, now it's Rubens it's conspiracy nonsense.

[timken 0]

I thought that maybe it would have been more interesting with the commentary but I see that it wasn't. Still have to see the last 2 overtakes, I had a plane to catch and it was being a borefest so I figured that if I missed the last 7 laps or so something interesting would happen to look forward to when I got home

I still haven't figured out where did Webber appear from but that was good, definitely my choice for DoD. Vettel has to look into his starts, and even more now that we're moving to tracks where you can't overtake at all.

Ferrari suck. When it's not the drivers it's the realiability, when it isn't eiter it's the strategy... maybe they need a sabbatical to think extensively about why they suck (because they can't even figure that one out).

Webber had a great race. Basically if you look at it, before the first pit stops, he was sitting right behind Vettel & Massa, with all the talk about Vettel's race pace, its easy to forget Webber was right with him. Then, at the first stop, Webber took on a lot more fuel, and came out some 14 seconds behind the Vettel & Massa battle. Impressively, Mark actually reduced this gap down to about 9 seconds all while running with more fuel than both Massa and his much talked about team mate. By this assement, Webber too, like Vettel was capable of lapping much faster than the Ferrari of Massa, even while heavier fueled.

So once Vettel and Massa pitted, Mark, who had been running with much more fuel, put in from memory about another 6-7 laps on the soft tyres and lighter fueled car and pulled out a hefty gap over the dueling Massa & Webber. It was enough by the time Mark made his second stop to allow him to easily leapfrog Massa & Vettel. Impressivly, Webber who had been catching Rubens too, then managed to lap faster on the hard tyre than the Brawn, and, had he not been behind Rubens, probably would have lapped with the same speed Vettel was doing on the hard tyres in the last few laps.

Yes I am a Webber fan, but he easily matched Vettel if not bested him for race craft this race. DOD for me

[Schumikonen 2]

DOD spanish GP: Massa and Rubens. Why? Massa made a big effort against a bad car and a bad team; 10 final laps were a kind of requiem for Domenicalli and his crew.... Rubens was screwed up by Ross again. Ross doesn

[Schumikonen 2]

Webber had a great race. Basically if you look at it, before the first pit stops, he was sitting right behind Vettel & Massa, with all the talk about Vettel's race pace, its easy to forget Webber was right with him. Then, at the first stop, Webber took on a lot more fuel, and came out some 14 seconds behind the Vettel & Massa battle. Impressively, Mark actually reduced this gap down to about 9 seconds all while running with more fuel than both Massa and his much talked about team mate. By this assement, Webber too, like Vettel was capable of lapping much faster than the Ferrari of Massa, even while heavier fueled.

So once Vettel and Massa pitted, Mark, who had been running with much more fuel, put in from memory about another 6-7 laps on the soft tyres and lighter fueled car and pulled out a hefty gap over the dueling Massa & Webber. It was enough by the time Mark made his second stop to allow him to easily leapfrog Massa & Vettel. Impressivly, Webber who had been catching Rubens too, then managed to lap faster on the hard tyre than the Brawn, and, had he not been behind Rubens, probably would have lapped with the same speed Vettel was doing on the hard tyres in the last few laps.

Yes I am a Webber fan, but he easily matched Vettel if not bested him for race craft this race. DOD for me

His race was not only great it was quiet also I didn't notice him until he was already in front of Massa after the second round of pitstops.

[yurp 0]

yep - although had Vettel not spent the race holed up behind Massa, I think he would have been lapping at the same pace as Webber. Had that happened it would have been closer between Webber and Vettel for 3rd.

also - having just watched the race again...

it might happen later in the season, but barrichello wasn't the victim of team orders here.

he lost the race himself. poor 3rd stint compared to button's 2nd - he just didn't put the laps in when he needed to. if you look at laps with equivilent fuel loads (when buttons tyres were actually older), button was putting in fractionally faster times. this is deceptive, because generally barichello was on lighter fuel, so he looked faster all race, but if you look at their laps 5, 4, 3, 2 laps before pitting, button has the edge.

a few might claim that barichello still had fuel in the tank and they called him in early. this may have been correct by 2-3 laps for his last stop, but he'd already lost the lead by then. before that he was virtually empty - check the fuels put into the car at each stop and see.

for those who claimed he should have got more fuel on the first stop - they did that to get out ahead of rosberg - he came out a car ahead - that was perfect strategy.

unless someone in the brawn garage deflated his third set of tyres or something, there isn't no foul play possible.

also - right now it's important for brawn to work towards their WCC too - it would be a pretty amazing achievement to prearrange strategies, then change button's just in the right way to let barichello get 2nd but not end up in 3rd or 4th or 5th (look at how close the leaders were at the end).

possibly after another few races if button's being seriously challenged by vettel in the WDC they might resort to crippling barrichello's chances, but not yet - and honestly I think it unlikely anyway (not impossible, but unlikely).

additionally, all the comments given by barichello, button, brawn an several team members, plus radio transmissions, all support the simple logical conclusion - no conspiracies here I'm afraid.

no proof, no evidence, no motive, no crime

let's talk about liegate again.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

Alonso caused that crash I already said it here, he took a driver (NR I think) out of the track and when he tried to rejoin found Trulli on his way who trying to avoid the collision lost control and he was hit by other car while the rest crashed because some of them braked to hard to avoid hitting trulli.

Everything is here http://www.clipmoon.com/videos/13983dc/f1-...h-may-2009.html

Not for me.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

dear spanish and catalans friends: what a poor track! It avoid any kind of overtaking! F1 should change it soon!

[Schumikonen 2]

Not for me.

I know and I fully expect a fierce resistance in this issue but anyway I know I am right as I was right when I said RB played dirty tricks on Rubens, people may disagree with my POV but I know I am right, as a Kimi's fan I can't be wrong.

[Schumikonen 2]

dear spanish and catalans friends: what a poor track! It avoid any kind of overtaking! F1 should change it soon!

remember that many team are now using the diffuser and that device affect the performance of the car behind complicating the overtaking move, maybe the track is not gilty after all.

[kuskor 0]

Barcelona while being the best overall benchmark track, is one of the hardest to overtake on, probably the hardest one after monaco and hungaroring.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

I think you can also add Valencia in that category.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

I know and I fully expect a fierce resistance in this issue but anyway I know I am right as I was right when I said RB played dirty tricks on Rubens, people may disagree with my POV but I know I am right, as a Kimi's fan I can't be wrong.

Amen

[Argento Reloaded 1]

remember that many team are now using the diffuser and that device affect the performance of the car behind complicating the overtaking move, maybe the track is not gilty after all.

If you watched the last 15 editons of the Spanish GP is hardly to argue the track is not guilty...

[Quiet One 15]

If you watched the last 15 editons of the Spanish GP is hardly to argue the track is not guilty...

Amen