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Force India has submitted an unconditional entry after submitting its conditional FOTA entry. Expect to be kicked out of FOTA.

http://in.reuters.com/article/formulaOneNe...=formulaOneNews

How long before McLaren and Brawn follow?

FOTA is crumbling as I predicted.... getting to the stage where it becomes unviable. 8 teams?

Smacks to me of Bernie doing deals behind the scenes, picking them off. I expect McLaren and Brawn to submit next with Red Bull and STR on their heels.

Bernie/CVC has too much to lose and for the relatively small concessions he can make, he can buy the loyalty of the non-manufacturer teams.

As for the manufacturers, I can't see BMW, Renault or Toyota continuing - they are under pressure anyway on spend and think their boards will use it as an excuse to bail - they may even sell their assets to one of the incoming teams a la Jaguar/BAR/Jordan. At least it would not be a total loss to them. That just leaves Ferrari. 50:50 on whether they would continue. Fiat is spending a lot currently with acquisitions and also under pressure to reduce costs.

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No surprise if FOTA falls.

It holds no power at all and thus the teams have to put up or shut up.

Ferrari still holds a veto - the other seven don't but power is not the issue. Solidarity and retaining the integrity and heritage of F1 is. Max doesn't care about that. He just wants to take a whip to anyone who defies him. Power is certainly the issue with him - F1 isn't. I seriously hope the teams get what they want and leave if they don't. Williams is toothless and they owe Bernie money. They're on a hiding to nothing. Farce India is a rich man's plaything and will never challenge for a title - who needs them - they're spineless.

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F1 does need teams of the ilk of Williams and Force India though.

Without them, there wouldn't be F1 as you wouldn't have enough competitors.

I also doubt there is any less passion from the guys who work at FI then those at the sharp end.

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F1 does need teams of the ilk of Williams and Force India though.

Without them, there wouldn't be F1 as you wouldn't have enough competitors.

I also doubt there is any less passion from the guys who work at FI then those at the sharp end.

I not suggesting it doesn't, I'm disappointed that they chose break ranks. Williams were over the coals with Bernie but could have held fast for the good of the sport they lovet and FI weren't under any pressure at all.

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8 teams in a breakaway = 24 cars on a grid if they run three cars....and who's to say if they did have a breakaway that other "new" teams wouldn't join their series...with Sir Frank coming on board after his contract with FOM/FIA is complete?

That article from Secret Spice says "commercial obligations" have forced Force India to rethink....whats the odds that they are without Merc engines next year? Merc going with Brawn and McLaren for 2010 (in whatever guise of F1) leaves FI with the only option of customer Cossies at 5-mil.

So far Williams have jumped ship because they only go racing, have a contract to 2012 with FOM/FIA, and have already been paid 2010 TV money (i think thats right)...so a no brainer there. And IF Merc are dumping Force India, then what is Malaya to do but go race in the cheapest way possible.

Red Bull are tied in with Ferrari AND Renault, so they will no doubt follow in line with those two manufacturers, or else its off to Cossie heaven for those two teams too.

And I think that it would be easy enough to have a race series established by next April - they have all the old "dumped" tracks to go to. The only reason Canada is back in the news is that Bernie will be sounding them out to stop FOTA approaching them...I'd say there is no guarantees coming from Bernie to Canada that they will get a race back.

And so what if the first year there is only a ten race championship? Race every other weekend, and thats a 20 week calander...sounds reasonable to me, and in 2011, expand to 16 races.

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The name F1 really does not mean anything to me. If Ferrari and FOTA leave and form their own championship I would Really see that as F1. Its not the name but the teams and the spirit that counts.

If next May I could Either watch F1, with the 11 teams now signed up unconditionally, or Formula FOTA with those 8 teams I would watch FFOTA. Ok it would not be FOTA seeing as they would no longer be the FORMULA ONE TEAMS ASSOCIATION but you get my point.

And I would see the driver that wins the Championship within the FOTA league as the true successor to the 09 champion. Technically the FOTA leauge could call itself just F1, they would not have a Trademark on it but neither does burnie because the courts have rules that F1 is not specific enough to be trademarked.

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I take the point but ultimately I think the FIA will do what they want.

If the teams wish to not become obscure then they have to follow.

If the FIA ultimately lose control over the manufacturer teams plus BGP, RBR, Macca and STR then Max will have no one left who is significant enough to bully. That's what turns him on. He just loves to throw his weight around, especially with Ferrari who he seems to reserve a special hatred for. He always has. I have seen the man operating at close quarters - it's ugly. Forget the improvements he implemented for car and driver safety - that was his job and he wasn't alone - Charlie Whiting and a lot of other good people put in the real work. Running the FIA has been a power trip for him - nothing else.

A new series, GPOne, call it what you wish, will attract sponsors, broadcasters and a couple of new teams who would be allowed to run customer cars for a year or two while they develop their own. GPOne will have all the sexy brands and top drivers. Bernie will have nothing. Who will want to watch a series where there would hardly be a discernible difference between the support race, and the main event anyway?

In 2012, the new series would be established, Williams will track back, closely followed by Aston Martin, Bernie will be 82 and dribbling at the mouth and Max will no longer be eligible to stand for re-election, thank God! Sounds like a plan to me.

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8 teams in a breakaway = 24 cars on a grid if they run three cars....and who's to say if they did have a breakaway that other "new" teams wouldn't join their series...with Sir Frank coming on board after his contract with FOM/FIA is complete?

That article from Secret Spice says "commercial obligations" have forced Force India to rethink....whats the odds that they are without Merc engines next year? Merc going with Brawn and McLaren for 2010 (in whatever guise of F1) leaves FI with the only option of customer Cossies at 5-mil.

So far Williams have jumped ship because they only go racing, have a contract to 2012 with FOM/FIA, and have already been paid 2010 TV money (i think thats right)...so a no brainer there. And IF Merc are dumping Force India, then what is Malaya to do but go race in the cheapest way possible.

Red Bull are tied in with Ferrari AND Renault, so they will no doubt follow in line with those two manufacturers, or else its off to Cossie heaven for those two teams too.

And I think that it would be easy enough to have a race series established by next April - they have all the old "dumped" tracks to go to. The only reason Canada is back in the news is that Bernie will be sounding them out to stop FOTA approaching them...I'd say there is no guarantees coming from Bernie to Canada that they will get a race back.

And so what if the first year there is only a ten race championship? Race every other weekend, and thats a 20 week calander...sounds reasonable to me, and in 2011, expand to 16 races.

There is nothing wrong with Cosworth engines. There is certainly something wrong with Max Mosley. Williams and FI have no choice. Frank took the King's shilling and Mallya ain't selling enough girders and booze. FOTA will be just fine. They'll get the venues they need.

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The name F1 really does not mean anything to me. If Ferrari and FOTA leave and form their own championship I would Really see that as F1. Its not the name but the teams and the spirit that counts.

If next May I could Either watch F1, with the 11 teams now signed up unconditionally, or Formula FOTA with those 8 teams I would watch FFOTA. Ok it would not be FOTA seeing as they would no longer be the FORMULA ONE TEAMS ASSOCIATION but you get my point.

And I would see the driver that wins the Championship within the FOTA league as the true successor to the 09 champion. Technically the FOTA leauge could call itself just F1, they would not have a Trademark on it but neither does burnie because the courts have rules that F1 is not specific enough to be trademarked.

What they call it is irrelevant. That they get on and do it is crucial. If things were sorted out , [which they won't be - it's gone to far], Max would be back at it every season until he goes. F1 is a dead duck. Long live F1!

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What they call it is irrelevant. That they get on and do it is crucial. If things were sorted out , [which they won't be - it's gone to far], Max would be back at it every season until he goes. F1 is a dead duck. Long live F1!

Bernie broke world record for keeping silent about events in F1! When he speaks he will choose side and efectively decide how will things go on. Would be easier with him on board, but... a hard way is also the way to do it.

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Burnie is keeping his mouth shut because he knows he doesn't have a hand to play.

There is no Concord Agreement which means he really doesn't have any power. Really the only play he would have would be to go to the teams and say, " Hey guys, how about you guys leave and form your own series, you make the rules and I handle the promotion and financing"

The teams might like that Idea but only if the money starts getting distributed 70-30 instead of 40-60 in favor of the teams. And I would be that those 30% would need to be reinvested in tracks and promotion and not into Burnies pockets

The teams have the strongest hand right now, its like watching poker on tv and the Teams have flush in their had and Max is holding a pair of three's trying to out bluff the teams except that the teams know his hand and he knows theirs.

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Burnie is keeping his mouth shut because he knows he doesn't have a hand to play.

There is no Concord Agreement which means he really doesn't have any power. Really the only play he would have would be to go to the teams and say, " Hey guys, how about you guys leave and form your own series, you make the rules and I handle the promotion and financing"

The teams might like that Idea but only if the money starts getting distributed 70-30 instead of 40-60 in favor of the teams. And I would be that those 30% would need to be reinvested in tracks and promotion and not into Burnies pockets

The teams have the strongest hand right now, its like watching poker on tv and the Teams have flush in their had and Max is holding a pair of three's trying to out bluff the teams except that the teams know his hand and he knows theirs.

That is the role I expect him to play, but I guess he is waiting Friday. That course of action seems the most money wise from his perspective.

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I can't see Bernie disassociating himself with the big boys. His product loses all it's kudos and marketability without them. All he has to do is uncouple from the FIA and let FOTA regulate F1. F1 does not need the FIA to sanction it to operate. Otherwise, he manages the commercial side of a new series for FOTA on their terms. If the FOTA teams leave he can't sell what's left - it has no commercial value. With FOTA members now all posting a $50m loyalty bond, he's either got to put Max, the monster he created back in his cage, [and, I doubt he can], split with the FIA or do a deal with FOTA. He's toothless.

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8 teams in a breakaway = 24 cars on a grid if they run three cars....

Interestingly, I saw a rumor today (originating from the spanish AS newspaper) that the FOTA teams are planning such a series, and Ferrari would have Kimi, Massa and Alonso as their drivers. However, the Spanish are so eager to get Alonso to Ferrari, that this most likely is just a way to promote that agenda. ;)

EDIT: typo

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Interestingly, I saw a rumor today (originating from the spanish AS newspaper) that the FOTA teams are planning such a series, and Ferrari would have Kimi, Massa and Alonso as their drivers. However, the Spanish are so eager to get Alonso to Ferrari, that this most likely is just a way to promote that agenda. ;)

EDIT: typo

I would suggest that they run 3 cars with at least one driven by rookie/"freshman" or "sophomore".

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Report from Paddock Talk in an interview with Frank Williams: http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.p...c=8&catid=0

Williams does not believe the breakaway threats are serious, "otherwise they would be rampaging around the paddock saying 'come and join our new thing'" he said.

I would have thought if it was going to happen, Frank would know about it.

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Report from Paddock Talk in an interview with Frank Williams: http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.p...c=8&catid=0

Williams does not believe the breakaway threats are serious, "otherwise they would be rampaging around the paddock saying 'come and join our new thing'" he said.

I would have thought if it was going to happen, Frank would know about it.

Didn't they do that already? Just Frank and VJ thought they were joking.....silly buggars.

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Didn't they do that already? Just Frank and VJ thought they were joking.....silly buggars.

You got that right.

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I have heard today that FOTA is already in discussion with MotoGP commercial rights-holder Dorna Sports SL with a view to having them organise a new series. Dorna used to be owned by CVC Capital Partners, until the European Commission ordered the private equity firm to sell its 71 per cent stake to Dorna Sports Management for

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Hmm, so far there hasn't been such a bad case in MotoGP as in F1 really. Bridgestone are the sole tyre supplier but basically because Michelin underperformed severely and the riders complained. The rest of unpopular rule changes have been introduced generally thinking of the safety of the riders, though the teams already found their way around them...

If the breakaway series could be similar to MotoGP that would be at the very least amazing.

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