2010 Entry List

[mikathegreat2 2]

FIA= bunch of c0cksucking, money grabbing a$$holes!!!!! i hope they're proud of ruining F1! Don't worry, once Le Mans & sportscar racing dominates the world of motorsport again, the FIA will be very unhappy & remove the budget cap to make F1 the most popular motorsport in the world! Watch this space!

[aussief1 4]

You were talking about them not being able to sue if they agree to a set of rules, Nathan was talking about them agreeing to a set of rules which then subsequently changed and then suing because they didn't get what they ordered, so to speak.

Correct

The only reason we have these three new teams is because of the imposed budget cap, now if that budget cap were to be removed do you think the three new teams would have submitted entries into the 2010 World Championship?? I think not.

Now the three new teams saying that they will race regardless of the budget cap being in place or not is a load of BS, these teams would be nowhere it it were a finacial arms race like what we have now. Good example is how Brawn GP are still yet to sign a title sponsor.

[wapi 4]

Correct

The only reason we have these three new teams is because of the imposed budget cap, now if that budget cap were to be removed do you think the three new teams would have submitted entries into the 2010 World Championship?? I think not.

Now the three new teams saying that they will race regardless of the budget cap being in place or not is a load of BS, these teams would be nowhere it it were a finacial arms race like what we have now. Good example is how Brawn GP are still yet to sign a title sponsor.

No they would not be nowhere. Since one Croatian journalist is involved in USF1 project we have been hearing in our media for more than a year that USF1 is entering F1 in 2010. They were claiming that they have 3 years of operations financially covered. It was way before latest Mosley regulation f..k up. BGP has financing solved for this year so they are playing hardball with potential sponsors asking for lot of money because their price is on the rise, they will be WCC and WDC unless heaven falls on Jenson's head.

Financial arms race is bs. Beneton used to be WCC and WDC with McLaren and Ferrari as competition. Same is true for Williams. Why is Williams nowhere? Probably because they made some bad management/technical development decisions somewhere in the past. If you are good you can get money from sponsors to continue being good, but when you are not good for 2 years in a row, nobody is going to pay you any more. May be it is time for Patrcik Head and Frank Williams to go fishing?

If they all end up in the same series budget cap is not going to help Williams be any better than they are now. Even they would have to downsize staff and give up some development "tools".

[aussief1 4]

No they would not be nowhere. Since one Croatian journalist is involved in USF1 project we have been hearing in our media for more than a year that USF1 is entering F1 in 2010. They were claiming that they have 3 years of operations financially covered. It was way before latest Mosley regulation f..k up. BGP has financing solved for this year so they are playing hardball with potential sponsors asking for lot of money because their price is on the rise, they will be WCC and WDC unless heaven falls on Jenson's head.

Financial arms race is bs. Beneton used to be WCC and WDC with McLaren and Ferrari as competition. Same is true for Williams. Why is Williams nowhere? Probably because they made some bad management/technical development decisions somewhere in the past. If you are good you can get money from sponsors to continue being good, but when you are not good for 2 years in a row, nobody is going to pay you any more. May be it is time for Patrcik Head and Frank Williams to go fishing?

If they all end up in the same series budget cap is not going to help Williams be any better than they are now. Even they would have to downsize staff and give up some development "tools".

Okay when USF1 say that they are going to enter and when they enter was still open ended, however I believe them that they would have entered in 2010 regardless of the budget cap. But can you give arguement for Campos and Manor???

Brawn GP is living off Honda at the moment and the commitment they gave to Ross that they would keep money pumping through for the 2009 season as a part of the deal. If Honda didn't give this commitment Ross would have to sign a sponorship deal to keep development happening. Are they really playing hard ball or are they struggling to find a sponsor?? You be the judge, they have / had a great backer in the Virgin Group but all talks seem to have cooled somewhat. You can ask too much and end up with nothing but that's the game Brawn are playing at the moment.

Yes there is arguement that Benetton and Renault have made good on a smaller budget then that of the bigger manufacturer teams but these results when you look back are few and far between. So in the real world the bigger the budget the bigger your chance at winning championships. Now to counter act what money isn't everything Honda and Toyota being prime examples that all the money in the world cannoyt ensure wins and championships will follow suit.

And to suggest that Frank and Patrick have lost the ability to win is a joke, the reason for their less than competitive showing over the last so many years is largely down to a result of not having the funds to compete, but you are right the budget cap will aid them.

[HandyNZL 1]

Okay when USF1 say that they are going to enter and when they enter was still open ended, however I believe them that they would have entered in 2010 regardless of the budget cap. But can you give arguement for Campos and Manor???

Brawn GP is living off Honda at the moment and the commitment they gave to Ross that they would keep money pumping through for the 2009 season as a part of the deal. If Honda didn't give this commitment Ross would have to sign a sponorship deal to keep development happening. Are they really playing hard ball or are they struggling to find a sponsor?? You be the judge, they have / had a great backer in the Virgin Group but all talks seem to have cooled somewhat. You can ask too much and end up with nothing but that's the game Brawn are playing at the moment.

Yes there is arguement that Benetton and Renault have made good on a smaller budget then that of the bigger manufacturer teams but these results when you look back are few and far between. So in the real world the bigger the budget the bigger your chance at winning championships. Now to counter act what money isn't everything Honda and Toyota being prime examples that all the money in the world cannoyt ensure wins and championships will follow suit.

And to suggest that Frank and Patrick have lost the ability to win is a joke, the reason for their less than competitive showing over the last so many years is largely down to a result of not having the funds to compete, but you are right the budget cap will aid them.

Nahhhh...it's because they had Mark Webber :P :P

[aussief1 4]

Nahhhh...it's because they had Mark Webber :P :P

It's becuase of Mark they did as well as they did in 2005, 2006

[Insider 0]

Team Coca-Cola Brawn Mercedes? It's on the wind. Other strong rumours are that Apple and have had a look in, Carlos Slim is still hovering, Vodafone may jump ship from Macca and O2/Telefonica are also sniffing around. Virgin pay BGP $250K per race and they won't involve themselves further that that - they made that position clear from the outset. Basically, Branson is having a 'jolly'. BGP are looking for a long-term partner and the current FIA/FOTA squabble is obviously a major hinderance. Sponsors won't risk shareholder cash unless BGP operate under conventional governance and have entered into a long term commitment to F1.

Though Ross Brawn may wholeheartedly agree with FOTA's objections concerning budget caps, governance and rules changes, he is firmly trapped 'twixt a rock and a hard place. On one hand, he is challenging the FIA's attempt at a wholesale re-structuring of F1 DNA and on the other, finds himself leading both World Championships comfortably but may not be able to continue racing beyond the season's end [through lack of funding], unless he complies with the FIA directive to remove the conditions of his 2010 entry. I cannot see the FIA budging an inch until there is compliance with it's current demands. Those who do not sign unconditionally by Friday will not be in Bernie and Max's F1 next year. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

It's probably too late to organise an alternative series for 2010 and more importantly, sponsors would want to see how such a thing evolved before getting involved. It would certainly be no place for privateers like BGP - that's for sure. I believe BGP have done well to evolve this far despite Honda's support and especially, in light of Bernie's refusal to give them their predecessors share of the 2009 prize money. Their fellow FOTA members have done nothing but slag them off all year and I think Ross, despite his well-founded principles would do well to bite the bullet and get his team into next year's championship. 'You can only defeat your enemy if you sleep inside his camp'. I don't know who said that, it might of been my Dad. Ross doesn't need anything as elaborate as a Trojan Horse - he just needs to sign a piece of paper. Alas, 'tis the only game in town.

[monza gorilla 1]

Lola have withdrawn their entry. How long before Prodrive do likewise?

[Insider 0]

Lola have withdrawn their entry. How long before Prodrive do likewise?

Looking at this, I shouldn't think anyone would want to be involved at this time! If Prodrive do withdraw, there is still Epsilon, Lightspeed and the paper teams. Nevertheless, Max appears to be offering FOTA a way to continue negotiation and become unconditional entrants - if you trust what he says, that is. I feel FOTA were quite right to point out in their letter, [see here] that Cosi have had 8 months to re-tune their engine stock while the FOTA teams had a hell of a lot less. There is some progress though. I firmly believe the sport needed this debate. It's such a shame it became so childish and bitter.

From F1 Live.com:

F1's crisis is creeping awkwardly towards a compromise after the FOTA rebels wrote to FIA President Max Mosley on Tuesday.

As already reported, the eight teams said they would agree to a budget cap - now called "resource restriction" - if it could be policed by a group of independent accountants.

"We have already offered to accept the report of a reputable auditor backed up by the signature of a main company board member," Mosley replied by letter on Wednesday.

He added, however, that a "fundamental problem" with FOTA's proposal is the "absence of a clear figure." Mosley has previously indicated that he would agree to a 100m euro cap in 2010, reducing to 45m in 2011.

FOTA asked that Friday's deadline for making their 2010 entries unconditional be extended until July 1st, but Mosley declined, arguing that the "remaining applicants" for places on the 2010 grid need to be informed "no later than Friday."

He also turned down FOTA's request for governance provisions changes in a renewed version of the 1998 Concorde Agreement, insisting that there is "not time left" for the necessary lengthy negotiations.

Mosley advised the teams to simply agree to extend the 1998 Concorde and then "we can negotiate a new 2009 Concorde Agreement under the protection of the 1998 arrangements.

"

FOTA said the teams want a judge's seat at the International Court of Appeal, but Mosley said this would require a change in the FIA Statutes.

"There are elements in your proposals which we may be able to agree to, but we need time to look at them," he wrote.

The FOTA members also said Cosworth should not be allowed to run its 2006-spec engines with a higher rev limit next year, but Mosley responded that the British firm has "neither the time nor the resources to retune for 2010" and claimed that in any case, the three new Cosworth-powered teams will not have "any competitive advantage whatsoever."

In short, Mosley remains firm that the teams need to make their 2010 entries unconditional by Friday.

"We propose that you accept the 2010 rules, as published (...) If necessary, these can be revised within the above governance procedures in due course," he wrote.

The FIA President also indicated that each team will shortly receive a letter. If signed and returned to the sport's governing body, Mosley's proposals will be made "legally binding and the relevant team's entry unconditional."

[F1 FANatic 1]

HAHA, nice play by the teams, they get to choose an independent auditor that would only deliver a final report to the FIA at the end of the year

Sounds like the chef writing the restaurants reviews

[The Rumble Strip 0]

Sounds good to me.

[Insider 0]

A pal, who used to be retained as a legal advisor to a leading F1 team muted last evening that Ferrari and RBR could face costs in excess of

[monza gorilla 1]

One assumes that Frank and Patrick stand to make a few quid if Toyota bail - don't they have a supply contract for 2010?

[F1 FANatic 1]

But Honda was signed up till 2012 and Burnie tried to get money out of them for not following through with their contract but he didn't get a dime so I doubt he would be able to get much from those teams especially when one teams has the backing of FIAT and the other of RedBull. Burnie is rich but even in this economic climate FIAT and RedBull are richer. It will come down to a game of who has the most lawyers and I doubt Burnie is up for wasting his hard "earned" money

Also, I doubt McM will join up because it would mean they have to pay each FOTA team $50mill, thats one thing the news about the bond never was very clear about but its not 50mill to FOTA its 50 mill to each team in FOTA who signed the bond measure. with 50mill burnie might just have stepped in and said, we'll pay it for you but 50mill times 5 other teams just turned into a full years budget

[Insider 0]

One assumes that Frank and Patrick stand to make a few quid if Toyota bail - don't they have a supply contract for 2010?

Yup.

[Insider 0]

Here we go

Another letter from Mosley:

On the eve of his second deadline, Max Mosley has written to the five teams - Brawn GP, BMW, McLaren, Renault and Toyota - whose entries for 2010 remain conditional, proposing an

[mikathegreat2 2]

[Insider 0]

[The Rumble Strip 0]

And a decent one at that.

[Rainmaster 7]

All these smart guys in F1 and it takes them that long to come up with something reasonable. Good stuff.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

The question is how to make F1 sustainable in the long term and I'm not sure that it is such a massive problem.

Drivers and teams come and go as do rules and given that F1 has been around for sixty years, I'm not convinced that it will all of a sudden stop.

Whilst we may have to look at costs, fans will always watch the sport.

Here's to another sixty years.

[Silas Talbot 0]

But Honda was signed up till 2012 and Burnie tried to get money out of them for not following through with their contract but he didn't get a dime so I doubt he would be able to get much from those teams especially when one teams has the backing of FIAT and the other of RedBull. Burnie is rich but even in this economic climate FIAT and RedBull are richer. It will come down to a game of who has the most lawyers and I doubt Burnie is up for wasting his hard "earned" money

In 'The FIA statement in full' that was out a couple days ago, it says:

...any of the manufacturers could stop at any moment. The FIA would have no recourse against the main company, only against the team which would have no assets in excess of its debts.

It's an interesting admission to make, I wonder if it was strategic fibbing. =)

The news now is that they've reached a compromise, 100 mil budget cap for next yr, so perhaps its all moot

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Even if FIA did sue them, all the teams have to do is put their F1 racing company into liquidation, launch a new company, sell the assets from the old into the new and FIA have no recourse.

[cavallino 2]

One assumes that Frank and Patrick stand to make a few quid if Toyota bail - don't they have a supply contract for 2010?

They can still give them engines, I mean engines are frozen anyway.