Those Who Ignore History..................

[pumpdoc 2]

FOTA vs. FIA, CART vs. IRL, along with others series in the past will never work. What will FOTA call itself? I'm sure the Formula 1 name is out. Why can't these ignoramis see that this will kill open whell racing as it did in the U.S.?

There is no fixing stupid.

[Cinco 30]

Indeed.

Though I do think CART mismanaged itself to death; which isn't sympathizing with TG or his joke of a series, the split permanently killed the Indy 500 for sure, but I do think if CART wasn't run by idiots late in its life, the IRL would've been absorbed by them, not the other way around.

This split seems more similar to USAC/CART to me, though I wasn't alive then.

But I certainly agree two series competing against eachother in the same region with similar rules cannot last very long.

I don't think we'll see that. They were going to split a few years ago, but they didn't. If anything, most of the teams will come home, the ones who don't will go sports car racing.

[wapi 4]

Indeed.

Though I do think CART mismanaged itself to death; which isn't sympathizing with TG or his joke of a series, the split permanently killed the Indy 500 for sure, but I do think if CART wasn't run by idiots late in its life, the IRL would've been absorbed by them, not the other way around.

This split seems more similar to USAC/CART to me, though I wasn't alive then.

But I certainly agree two series competing against eachother in the same region with similar rules cannot last very long.

I don't think we'll see that. They were going to split a few years ago, but they didn't. If anything, most of the teams will come home, the ones who don't will go sports car racing.

I do not see a problem. It is not splitting on two halves. It is 80% going somewhere and 20% percent remaining under F1 brand. Those 80% have clear marketing advantage. In contemporary liberal economy world Bernie and FIA cannot stop TV networks to broadcast those races. And it is immediatelly clear which series is more media attractive.

[Cinco 30]

I do not see a problem. It is not splitting on two halves. It is 80% going somewhere and 20% percent remaining under F1 brand. Those 80% have clear marketing advantage. In contemporary liberal economy world Bernie and FIA cannot stop TV networks to broadcast those races. And it is immediatelly clear which series is more media attractive.

That's part of Bruce's point, I think. With the CART/IRL split, it was the same. CART had all the big teams, the biggest fan following, the better drivers, etc. And yet it died and folded into the IRL. It's very possible. FOTA, like CART, is run by the teams. It's a setup for failure; they're united in leaving the FIA, but once they have their own series, do you really see Ferrari, McLaren, etc working together to make fair rules? I don't. They look after their interests, not the sport; you can't compete at such a cut-throat level as F1 teams do and then make rules so that are good for growing the series when they can make rules to advance their individual teams. Power corrupts; you know those teams will abuse it when they get it. It may not be immediately; CART lasted years after the split, but it does happen. And then it collapses. And then they have to go back to the FIA, and by that point, the FIA, like the IRL, will be in such a sorry state you'll be putting two pieces of crap together to form, well, a bigger piece of crap.

[DOF_power 0]

I don't really think FIA, FOM or FOTA have fan's preoccupation on their agenda.

They kept up this pinnacle non-sense, even thought the active rides, the late IMSA GTPs, the old ITC/DTM racecars where more/the most advanced racecars, and in some areas the sport-prototypes are the real pinnacle today.

And let's not forget the DARPA Challenge cars.

Grand Prix racing died with the ban of the active ride cars.

1906 - 1993 R.I.P. Grand Prix motor racing.

[DriftingGuy 0]

Bottom line

FOTA with Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams, Renault + Monza, Monaco, Silverstone = The real F1

FIA with ADD NEW TEAM HERE + some tracks in the desert where camels once roamed = No chance in hell to succeed

[Medilloni 6]

Those who ignore history ......., well yes, they could repeat mistakes.

It's also possible (having ignored the past) they could have a fresh, inventive way of doing things that bring more fun and competition. Just because someone fu(ked-up before shouldn't stop them going for it - sh1t, history is also full of people that have improved the breed and made great things out of others' mediocre attempts - and I think the USA is famous for just that!

They could make it the best thing since sliced bread, and when they do, there won't be an FIA equivalent that'll last, so there'll only be one series and two championships, and that's the Grand Prix World Championship for Drivers and the Grand Prix World Championship for Constructors.

It's weird hearing people talk of doom and gloom when this could be the opportunity of GP racing's lifetime (F1 came later...).

Bring it on.

[Cinco 30]

there won't be an FIA equivalent that'll last

But there's the flawed logic...the Indy Racing Leauge was the most pointless, stupid racing series...it was all speedways (as in foot-to-the-floor never lift until you wreck), had all these really stupid drivers with no talent who were there because the series wanted Americans and Americans only (Racin Gardner...seriously...there was a driver called Racin Gardner. He was s##t. There was also a dentist, Dr. Jack Miller, which was ironic, since IRL fans don't have teeth, but...), no one watched, there weren't any sponsors, etc, etc...and it survived. Longer than the true, real open wheel series, CART, did.

It was money that kept a silly billy series like the IRL going, so if the FIA have the money to prop it up, it'll be there. And there are plenty of Middle Eastern billionaires who will provide those funds. It's hard for a series to just die. If you look on forums, yeah, FOTA's going to win, woo hoo, but forum posters make up such a small percentage of race fans; the hardcorest of the hardcore. I wonder if your casual "OMG LEWIS!" viewer even has a clue there will be two series, and if he/she does, I'd expect them just to tune out altogether, like they did with American open wheel. They'll find something better to do with the time.

[Rainmaster 7]

Maybe history will repeat, I don't think that is the point really. It's not like they are making a choice to split, for a bit of fun. This argument has been going on for some time and now it is reaching it's grande finale. FOTA feel like they have to make such a move as it is better than staying under the FIA's thumb.

What's left afterwards may well be rubbish, or it could be much better. In the words of our Raikks: lets wait and see.

(I still think they'll compromise)

[Cinco 30]

(I still think they'll compromise)

(I agree).

[F1 FANatic 1]

I think we can all agree that today's state of F1 is no bueno and that something in F1 right now is kaput.

We may not agree on what is wrong and how to fix it but the current situation can not last.

I think the teams have decided that change is necessary and that a split is the only way they believe the necessary change is going to come about.

Will it fail? Maybe. Will it work? Maybe. And there is the crux of the entire situation, the teams have decided that it would be better to try to change and fail than it would be to sit around in today's mess.

[Rainmaster 7]

I think we can all agree that today's state of F1 is no bueno and that something in F1 right now is kaput.

We may not agree on what is wrong and how to fix it but the current situation can not last.

I think the teams have decided that change is necessary and that a split is the only way they believe the necessary change is going to come about.

Will it fail? Maybe. Will it work? Maybe. And there is the crux of the entire situation, the teams have decided that it would be better to try to change and fail than it would be to sit around in today's mess.

That was the post I wanted to write.

[Jean Todt 4]

I think we can all agree that today's state of F1 is no bueno and that something in F1 right now is kaput.

We may not agree on what is wrong and how to fix it but the current situation can not last.

I think the teams have decided that change is necessary and that a split is the only way they believe the necessary change is going to come about.

Will it fail? Maybe. Will it work? Maybe. And there is the crux of the entire situation, the teams have decided that it would be better to try to change and fail than it would be to sit around in today's mess.

+1 agreed.

[Cinco 30]

I disapprove of 99.99% ****age of the system and rebelling against the man. So I will have to say -1 I want to agree but don't.

[yurp 0]

i agree wih everyone - especially cinco cos he said I was the "hardcorest or the hardcore" - stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

Th last time the Contructors -FOCA- fight against FIA was in 1980 and someone called Bernie emerged with all the power... It seems in a couple of years someone will emerge and take all the power, but who will be?

[Piotr 0]

Th last time the Contructors -FOCA- fight against FIA was in 1980 and someone called Bernie emerged with all the power... It seems in a couple of years someone will emerge and take all the power, but who will be?

Let's hope and pray to a Deity of your choice it's not Max - the man who single-handedly destroyed a 60-year-old sport...

[Cinco 30]

Let's hope and pray to a Deity of your choice it's not Max - the man who single-handedly destroyed a 60-year-old sport...

No, it won't be Max, but I doubt if it's coming from the teams it'll be anyone better.

[maure 1]

I think we can all agree that today's state of F1 is no bueno and that something in F1 right now is kaput.

We may not agree on what is wrong and how to fix it but the current situation can not last.

I think the teams have decided that change is necessary and that a split is the only way they believe the necessary change is going to come about.

Will it fail? Maybe. Will it work? Maybe. And there is the crux of the entire situation, the teams have decided that it would be better to try to change and fail than it would be to sit around in today's mess.

Yep... plus the money distribution. In order to maintain spending levels, teams have got to get more out of the competition.

[Insider 0]

As Felipe baby would say: 'For sure, is gonna be tough but we just 'ave to push". Most Team Principals are intelligent men, as are the people they answer too. The FOTA position is that the governance of the sport is unacceptable in it's current form. None of them really want another series - it's a logistical nightmare. They just want the F1 they had before Max started tinkering unmercifully, determined it seems to turn F1 into a spec series. He is unstable. He can't keep his gob shut when he should. He's lost his cool and is calling people names. It's all got extremely prep schoolish. Like all dictators, he is determined to have his way, wrong or right and that is where it must end. Bernie can see that too but he appears helpless and tootheless in all of this. If Max would stand down, then F1 would stand proud again. I am quite ashamed to admit I once worked in the sport. I never thought I would say that. I spent the whole weekend in and around the paddock, chatting with old friends and making new ones. It is as clear as glass what the sport wants at this moment in time: no Max Mosely. Everyone's favourite to replace him? Jean Todt.

[HandyNZL 1]

As Felipe baby would say: 'For sure, is gonna be tough but we just 'ave to push". Most Team Principals are intelligent men, as are the people they answer too. The FOTA position is that the governance of the sport is unacceptable in it's current form. None of them really want another series - it's a logistical nightmare. They just want the F1 they had before Max started tinkering unmercifully, determined it seems to turn F1 into a spec series. He is unstable. He can't keep his gob shut when he should. He's lost his cool and is calling people names. It's all got extremely prep schoolish. Like all dictators, he is determined to have his way, wrong or right and that is where it must end. Bernie can see that too but he appears helpless and tootheless in all of this. If Max would stand down, then F1 would stand proud again. I am quite ashamed to admit I once worked in the sport. I never thought I would say that. I spent the whole weekend in and around the paddock, chatting with old friends and making new ones. It is as clear as glass what the sport wants at this moment in time: no Max Mosely. Everyone's favourite to replace him? Jean Todt.

Jean Todt??????? Why not just hand all championships to Ferrari on a silver platter. I can't see him being unbiased.

If Max goes, I would prefer to see someone without F1 connections. Surely someone from sportscar, or touring car pedigree would be better. Fresh ideas and all that.

Or Eric.

[yurp 0]

...yes, but those who pay attention to history can make a much better series than the current F1.

[Insider 0]

I said Jean Todt was the favourite in the paddock. There are other names being bandied around too. Alain Prost for one and Patrick Head. You have to remember the position is unsalaried. Its a vocation in some respects or in the case of MM, a well-heeled megalomaniac's wet dream. Complex operations like F1 should be ruled by consensus, to my mind. Max's management style has always been divide and conquer. He has spent his tenure stirring things up, setting one team against another and causing chaos. This is his finest hour and he's loving every second of it. The FIA Senate are toothless. He must have some dirt on every one of them. No one has ever stood up to him except the ADAC, who censured him for his personal behaviour and withdrew their affiliation. It is this despotic stranglehold that allowed his mate Bernie to acquire the F1 TV rights for 100 years with no other bidder asked to tender. The cost then was

[Medilloni 6]

There's many threads this could go in, but hey ho....

There will be no split, according to the BBC @ 11:55 today, agreement reached. Allegedly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8116756.stm ....it does say more to follow. I'll bet there is!

[Insider 0]

There's many threads this could go in, but hey ho....

There will be no split, according to the BBC @ 11:55 today, agreement reached. Allegedly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8116756.stm ....it does say more to follow. I'll bet there is!

We hope so Meds. It's been over two hours and nothing from FOTA. I'm dubious.