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Insider

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I completely agree with you there Insider. Everybody has bad cars and they should jst accept it and get on with it. It happens. Unfortunatly lovely little Lewis is throwing his toys out the pram just as much as Kubica because they have never experienced a bad car before. That's why i think it is very easy to get over/underestimated in F1, i mean look at Fisichella. For my mind he's doing a great job in a car that clealry isn't the quickest on the grid, yet he's getting closer and closer to scoring the team's maiden points, but he's being slagged off as "rubbish" just because the car he is in is rubbish.

What do you want these guys to do to prove themselves? Win the WDC or something? Okay, go and show us how it's done!

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As a racer, Trulli is a fine vintner and Sutil hasn't got equality there and ought to be a BMW target. It would certainly liven Kubica up.

Shurely shome mishtake? Did you mean Glock? In which case I think Sutil would be better.

And yes, Jarno produces some quality plonk.

EDIT: Just had a look at Bernard's spoutings in the Times. He's completely lost the plot. But he'll probably get away with it. Again.

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Rosberg shouldn't get number one status anywhere but Williams or lower. I don't know what people see in him but whatever it is I sure don't. He isn't horrible but I have no reason to have any reason to think he's all that good.

What she said!

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Shurely shome mishtake? Did you mean Glock? In which case I think Sutil would be better.

And yes, Jarno produces some quality plonk.

EDIT: Just had a look at Bernard's spoutings in the Times. He's completely lost the plot. But he'll probably get away with it. Again.

Yes, sorry - I did. Dementia rampant, I'm afraid. Thanks for pointing it out, MG.

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I completely agree with you there Insider. Everybody has bad cars and they should jst accept it and get on with it. It happens. Unfortunatly lovely little Lewis is throwing his toys out the pram just as much as Kubica because they have never experienced a bad car before. That's why i think it is very easy to get over/underestimated in F1, i mean look at Fisichella. For my mind he's doing a great job in a car that clealry isn't the quickest on the grid, yet he's getting closer and closer to scoring the team's maiden points, but he's being slagged off as "rubbish" just because the car he is in is rubbish.

What do you want these guys to do to prove themselves? Win the WDC or something? Okay, go and show us how it's done!

I don't think anyone slagged anyone. Some drivers are better than others. It is a fact of life. Nico isn't "rubbish," but he isn't the future WDC everyone made him out to be after Bahrain 2006, nor is he someone I ever see winning races. He's just not that kind of driver. I think it's somewhat startling that Nico has gone top five or even P1 in practice this year but never seems to be able to match that in the race or in qualifying. The Williams has pace, it's no Brawn but it's no Force India either. I think it's a bit funny, too, to say Lewis and Kubica have "peaked" because their cars are bad and they should do better, but then use the "Williams has a bad car" excuse for Nico. Sure, Nico's handled it better in the media than Lewis, and Lewis better than Robert, but words don't make a world champion, driving does, and Lewis has shown he is more than capable of that. Rosberg v Kubica? Not sure who I rate higher, both are a tad over-rated, but Kubica is more exciting to watch than Kubica. Of course, excitement doesn't win championships, either, but F1 is entertainment, and I like being entertained, and all that fun stuff. They're the 20 best drivers in the world (sort of, Piquet isn't, but I bet Piquet could easily win an IndyCar championship, so even a loser like him is still a world class talent compared to the drivers in most other series), but they aren't all joint-first. Nico's somewhere in the middle; which to me just isn't top team material.

And sure, I'll go win a WDC, because, you know, you NEED to win a WDC to be eligible to post opinions on an Internet forum, right?

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As well as Max he also cherishes simpaty for the devil.

In Germany, his words are criminal offense. So I suppose that Nurburgring organizers might declare him "persona non grata" on the next event. If CVC has significant part of Jewish investors he might expect to be fired before sun rise on Monday.

So maybe it is "suicide by police". He does not have power of mind to withdraw but he does something stupid so he can pretend that he was forced to retire.

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Bah, Bernie's comments weren't so bad imo, I think he used some unfortunate analogies and is probably misinformed quite badly, but he isn't trying to insult anyone. Just ignorant, perhaps. In any event ignorant people have a right to free speech just like anybody else.

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Bah, Bernie's comments weren't so bad imo, I think he used some unfortunate analogies and is probably misinformed quite badly, but he isn't trying to insult anyone. Just ignorant, perhaps. In any event ignorant people have a right to free speech just like anybody else.

Ignorance does not save you from prosecution. He is too old to be ignorant. Yes but every freedom has its limits. This time he is over that boundary, he insulted and hurt all the victims of Third Reich. If I was German promoter or car manufacturer or German TV or German something I would make a big fuss about it.

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Bah, Bernie's comments weren't so bad imo, I think he used some unfortunate analogies and is probably misinformed quite badly, but he isn't trying to insult anyone. Just ignorant, perhaps. In any event ignorant people have a right to free speech just like anybody else.

Ignorance? Misinformation? Bernie? Nah. He knows pretty well what he is talking about. And no, he has no right to defend the Third Reich. It was a crime. Freedom of speech does not allow you to talk in favor of paedophilia, or torture...or nazism.

So I say throw the old b#####d in jail and let him rot.

EDIT: better yet. Just everybody who was offended by his stupid comments should sue his a## and strip him of his money. I bet that would hurt him even more.

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Ignorance does not save you from prosecution. He is too old to be ignorant. Yes but every freedom has its limits. This time he is over that boundary, he insulted and hurt all the victims of Third Reich. If I was German promoter or car manufacturer or German TV or German something I would make a big fuss about it.

Ignorance? Misinformation? Bernie? Nah. He knows pretty well what he is talking about. And no, he has no right to defend the Third Reich. It was a crime. Freedom of speech does not allow you to talk in favor of paedophilia, or torture...or nazism.

So I say throw the old b#####d in jail and let him rot.

EDIT: better yet. Just everybody who was offended by his stupid comments should sue his a## and strip him of his money. I bet that would hurt him even more.

Well I gotta disagree. Clearly he is misinformed or he wouldn't hold such views. I can't condemn him for being ignorant or stupid, if I did that then I would have to condemn a whole lot of people for a whole lot of things. He wasn't defending Hitler or talking in favour of Nazism as far as I can tell, he was trying to make a point about leadership and getting things done, and used a terribly poor example. In the article I think his views on Saddam Hussein are probably more controversial than what he says about Hitler, but that is a less sensitive issue so nobody says anything. Since he is just expressing his views and not intending to incite hatred or anything, he does have a right to say what he wants, and we have a right to call him an idiot...and that is the beauty of a free society.

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Hate me, but I agree with Bernie. As he said above, he's not talking about Nazism properly said, but leadership. You have a main figure that makes thing work as he wants, and get things done (as Bernie said). About Saddam, I think he means that maybe we can't understand why he did things that way, but for some reason they had to be done so, otherwise it wouldn't work. I can't judge that, sorry, dunno enough about Saddam and can't properly compare before-after him. But on the first matter I have to agree. You learn that when you study marketing, obviously not with such example, but if things are going down, you need a leader that can get things done his way, no oppinions, no seconds thoughts. And that's what he meant.

As I think I've said before, ok Bernie just wants the money, and is only thinking about his returns, but well, while it DOES make money, it means things are working, and doing great as possible. It's why I do think he is the one figure that does care about it working.

I know people tend to say Bernie is old and doesn't have a clue of what he's doing, but well, I think he's way more sensible when it comes to business (and even if you don't like it, F1 is about business and money, sorry), than Max Mosley who just cares about having the top chair, or even FOTA, who just wanted to prove they had power enough to take him off his seat.

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Well, in my mind and I'd think most people's minds, there's a HUGE difference between saying that strong, decisive leadership is needed and making a comparison to Hitler. Portraying him and Saddam in a positive light...you just don't do that, no matter what point you are trying to make.

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Bernie went to school during WW2, so he is brainwashed with Hitler being bad and evil. There is no way he could have escaped it. So he can't be uninformed, he is evil. Any decent human being does not make remarks like that knowing that you are going to hurt so many people.

We will see if Germans are going to go nuts. If they do, I would not bet on him keeping his job.

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Bernie's comments were repellent and maybe this is the beginning of the end for him. As others have said here, "ignorance" on topics such as these might be dismissed in a 12 year old with no sense of history; B.E. can make no such excuse. He knows exactly what he is saying and I do think that the firestorm that has been brewing all season has allowed that he's become somewhat unhinged and is no longer editing his opinions. Of course I thought the scandal surrounding Max M. last season would have brought about his demise as well...

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What?! F1 linked to Nazism?! Shock horror!!!

I have to agree with what some people have already said here, it's not like he said "Hitler was the best goddamn human that ever lived!" he just admired his leadership abilities.

I find it sad in this day and age that as soon as you utter "Hitler" or whatever, all of a sudden, no matter what context it was said in, you are a racist. That's just sad.

How F1 is run is in a mess, no doubt about it, and maybe it is time for Bernie to call it a day. But who'd replace him?

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What?! F1 linked to Nazism?! Shock horror!!!

I have to agree with what some people have already said here, it's not like he said "Hitler was the best goddamn human that ever lived!" he just admired his leadership abilities.

I find it sad in this day and age that as soon as you utter "Hitler" or whatever, all of a sudden, no matter what context it was said in, you are a racist. That's just sad.

How F1 is run is in a mess, no doubt about it, and maybe it is time for Bernie to call it a day. But who'd replace him?

Also, if you are decent human you do not do or say some things because many people may find it repulsive and offensive. If you want to compare with leadership abilities there many more examples in the history which are not so hot as Hitler is. So you can do it without risking anything. If you tap around Hitler it is obvious that your intentions are to cause harm and unrest.

It is very sad if sport depends on diminishing capabilities of 78 years old man.

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Ok, so let's all stop watching tv, stop going to history classes on school, and forbid words from our vocabulary, as if nothing ever happened, because we are all too stupid to respect personal oppinions without feeling offended.

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Well I gotta disagree. Clearly he is misinformed or he wouldn't hold such views. I can't condemn him for being ignorant or stupid, if I did that then I would have to condemn a whole lot of people for a whole lot of things. He wasn't defending Hitler or talking in favour of Nazism as far as I can tell, he was trying to make a point about leadership and getting things done, and used a terribly poor example. In the article I think his views on Saddam Hussein are probably more controversial than what he says about Hitler, but that is a less sensitive issue so nobody says anything. Since he is just expressing his views and not intending to incite hatred or anything, he does have a right to say what he wants, and we have a right to call him an idiot...and that is the beauty of a free society.

Nobody says anything about Saddam because:

1) Jewish Organizations are more prominent throughout the Western world than Iraqi Organizations.

2) Between Hitler, the Holocaust and WW2 for one side, and Saddam Hussein (including his war against Iran, his killing of kurdish people and his Iraqi dictatorship), it doesn't take a genius to figure out who was the guy who caused more harm to the humanity as whole, and thus become more noticeably a figure of horror for everybody.

3) This doesn't lessen the fact that Saddam Hussein was every bit as evil and a mass murderer as Hitler and also as condemnable. He just wasn't able to spread it further.

Now, back to Hermann Ecclestone:

1) While it is true that he didn't defend racism or the racist side of Nazism per se, he took a mass murderer and used him as "an example of leadership". Why not Charles Manson? He also got things done. He was quite a leader, he got a few teenaged girls to kill in the most horrible way a couple of families and their guests. A kid's game compared to Hitler. Why not Fidel Castro? He got a lot more things done, he maitnained his power for half a century and even if you choose to believe the worst version of Fidel Castro as stated by the most prominent anti Castro member of the CIA, the guy was nowhere as close to killing millions as Hitler or Saddam.(And no, I do not support Castro in any way)

2) We discused this many times before. Freedom of speech (or any other right, for that matter) are not absolute values. Just as free enterprise does not let you have a company of child porn, or right to private property does not allow you to build a drug manufacturing plant in your bathroom. Freedom of speech does not allow you to defend crimes. Certainly Bernie didn't defend Hitler's crimes. He only defended the fact that trains were on scheduled under nazism or something like that Curiously enough, that was the excuse most Germans and pro nazi people around the world always used to support Hitler without openly admitting that they admire him for the obvious. He might not be punishable by law, but he will be condemned by society. I hope so, at least, if we really have a sensible society and not just a bunch of selfish, coward and violent people.

3) Like Eric and wapi said, Bernie cannot act all naive about all this. He knows what he is talking about, he know the implications (unless he is really senile). I have no sympathy for such a light take on one of the worst dramas in the history of Humankind. Putting Hitler as a leadership example is malicious, cretinous and cruel. Believing that he did it in good faith is not one of your finest moments, George, sorry.

4) This is MY use of freedom of speech. And right now the Jewish Organizations throughout the world are asking for him to step down based on THEIR freedom of speech. He deserves everything that will come to him for this.

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Ok, so let's all stop watching tv, stop going to history classes on school, and forbid words from our vocabulary, as if nothing ever happened, because we are all too stupid to respect personal oppinions without feeling offended.

It is problem that something did happened!

Millions of souls perished because of that efficient leader, almost complete Europe was in ruins as result of his actions. Some nations were almost erradicated. I am sorry but it is undefendable and making this man look good in any aspect is unacceptable. You might not be able to understand it, but... in my "civilized subset of this world" it is unacceptable to talk nicely about criminals against mankind.

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its over, live with it. learn what happened, understand what went wrong, and do the best from now on. i studied history in my first uni, so yes i do understand you and i do know what happened there. but i wont pretend it didn't happened to the point people can't mention something, in none perspective and everyone thinks it's the end of the world. bernie is polemic, yes. bernie knew this would happen, yes. bernie wanted it, yes. he's not crazy, he's not out of his mind, he's making money out of each of us, and he IS successfull.

id completely understand if bernie said 'oh, its so nice to kill everyone if i gotta dominate the world' and everyone reacted like this. what he said was 'he could get things done' and well he could. he did it and we know it. what's the big news?

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Nobody says anything about Saddam because:

1) Jewish Organizations are more prominent throughout the Western world than Iraqi Organizations.

2) Between Hitler, the Holocaust and WW2 for one side, and Saddam Hussein (including his war against Iran, his killing of kurdish people and his Iraqi dictatorship), it doesn't take a genius to figure out who was the guy who caused more harm to the humanity as whole, and thus become more noticeably a figure of horror for everybody.

3) This doesn't lessen the fact that Saddam Hussein was every bit as evil and a mass murderer as Hitler and also as condemnable. He just wasn't able to spread it further.

Yes, I can understand why his comments against Hitler are more controversial than his comments about Saddam.

Now, back to Hermann Ecclestone:

1) While it is true that he didn't defend racism or the racist side of Nazism per se, he took a mass murderer and used him as "an example of leadership". Why not Charles Manson? He also got things done. He was quite a leader, he got a few teenaged girls to kill in the most horrible way a couple of families and their guests. A kid's game compared to Hitler. Why not Fidel Castro? He got a lot more things done, he maitnained his power for half a century and even if you choose to believe the worst version of Fidel Castro as stated by the most prominent anti Castro member of the CIA, the guy was nowhere as close to killing millions as Hitler or Saddam.(And no, I do not support Castro in any way)

2) We discused this many times before. Freedom of speech (or any other right, for that matter) are not absolute values. Just as free enterprise does not let you have a company of child porn, or right to private property does not allow you to build a drug manufacturing plant in your bathroom. Freedom of speech does not allow you to defend crimes. Certainly Bernie didn't defend Hitler's crimes. He only defended the fact that trains were on scheduled under nazism or something like that Curiously enough, that was the excuse most Germans and pro nazi people around the world always used to support Hitler without openly admitting that they admire him for the obvious. He might not be punishable by law, but he will be condemned by society. I hope so, at least, if we really have a sensible society and not just a bunch of selfish, coward and violent people.

3) Like Eric and wapi said, Bernie cannot act all naive about all this. He knows what he is talking about, he know the implications (unless he is really senile). I have no sympathy for such a light take on one of the worst dramas in the history of Humankind. Putting Hitler as a leadership example is malicious, cretinous and cruel. Believing that he did it in good faith is not one of your finest moments, George, sorry.

4) This is MY use of freedom of speech. And right now the Jewish Organizations throughout the world are asking for him to step down based on THEIR freedom of speech. He deserves everything that will come to him for this.

Andres, as far as I can tell, we agree on most things. At least that he wasn't defending Hitler's crimes, he does have a right to free speech, and society does have the right to condemn him if they want to. Personally I don't see the point in getting worked up or angry at the comments of some old guy (I guess that's because I never lived through such atrocities). Still, getting Bernie out of his job for this, I'm not entirely sure what it achieves apart from maybe some misplaced sense of revenge for some people. Does Bernie really care if he loses his job? I think he has enough money. It might be better for somebody from some of the organisations you mentioned to sit down and set him straight, rather than some mob mentality trying to force him out.

I don't think he made the comments in good faith, I just don't think he made them to anger people, either. I think he tried to make a point and didn't really consider the consequences. I'm surprised so many people think age isn't a defence to ignorance; ignorant people come in all shapes, sizes and ages. Ignorance is a way of life for some people. All kinds of intelligent people like Bernie have all kinds of silly, ignorant views. Should we really attack somebody for holding those views? I'm not sure it helps anybody. I find it a lot easier to believe that an old guy like Bernie is ignorant than I do to believe he is a Nazi deep down, sorry.

He could've used much better examples of good leaders, although he was trying to make a point about dictatorships (in an attempt to defend Max, iirc), so I guess when you think of dictators Hitler was the guy who came to mind. He does say in the article that it's 'terrible to say this I suppose' so clearly he did know it wasn't a great example, but it also shows he wasn't really trying to offend anybody, and didn't realise that it would be that offensive. Btw, if you believe that Bernie did know the implications of this, then what do you think his reasons were for saying it? I can't really understand why he would want to cause such outrage with people, which is why I think he didn't realise the consequences.

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bernie is polemic, yes. bernie knew this would happen, yes. bernie wanted it, yes. he's not crazy, he's not out of his mind, he's making money out of each of us, and he IS successfull.

id completely understand if bernie said 'oh, its so nice to kill everyone if i gotta dominate the world' and everyone reacted like this. what he said was 'he could get things done' and well he could. he did it and we know it. what's the big news?

He is not John Smith, he is public figure, his words are quoted and he should take care what come out of his mouth if he want to keep being successful. I am not sure he is not crazy. His comments lately do not sound sane. After all he is 78. I think anyone who trust his money to 78 year old guy is very brave.

I think he is not going to do his job in the season 2010. He will be persuaded to retire.

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its over, live with it. learn what happened, understand what went wrong, and do the best from now on. i studied history in my first uni, so yes i do understand you and i do know what happened there. but i wont pretend it didn't happened to the point people can't mention something, in none perspective and everyone thinks it's the end of the world. bernie is polemic, yes. bernie knew this would happen, yes. bernie wanted it, yes. he's not crazy, he's not out of his mind, he's making money out of each of us, and he IS successfull.

id completely understand if bernie said 'oh, its so nice to kill everyone if i gotta dominate the world' and everyone reacted like this. what he said was 'he could get things done' and well he could. he did it and we know it. what's the big news?

I completely agree. Oh look, i said Hitler's name. Does that make me a Jew-killing Nazi? No.

Once again, it's the tabloid news papers and gossipers making something out of nothing. It was the same with Max Mosley's sex scandal. For sure what he did was wrong, but come on, it's his private life, emphasis on "private".

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Bernie says nothing by mistake. All his comments are weighted by pragmatism or devious design. If he discredits himself in front of the press it's because it serves a specific purpose, believe me.

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