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You mean photo shops sell fried chicken? :o I'm off to Boots to get a zinger.... :)

58630627-lol-reaction.gif

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You mean photo shops sell fried chicken? :o I'm off to Boots to get a zinger.... :)

58630627-lol-reaction.gif

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Sorry bad connection, but I think you get my point.

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Bah, these triple posters clogging up the forum. I thought this was an F1 forum not a cartoon forum for crying out loud.

This is an outrage. I'm never posting again.

Sorry biggrin.png

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Bah, these triple posters clogging up the forum. I thought this was an F1 forum not a cartoon forum for crying out loud.

This is an outrage. I'm never posting again.

Sorry biggrin.png

JimCarreyLaugh_zps091ed197.gif

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Well, not F1 news but it seems we're having a bad year for deaths in motorsport, or at least high level racing. I'd be interested to know if that's actually true or it just seems that way to me. RIP to the motorcycle rider Andrea Antonelli who died while racing in atrocious conditions in Moscow, after being struck by other riders who hadn't a chance of seeing him in time.

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Well, not F1 news but it seems we're having a bad year for deaths in motorsport, or at least high level racing. I'd be interested to know if that's actually true or it just seems that way to me. RIP to the motorcycle rider Andrea Antonelli who died while racing in atrocious conditions in Moscow, after being struck by other riders who hadn't a chance of seeing him in time.

It does seem to be creeping back in. That's 2 in 2 years at the higher levels of motorbikes. I don't follow them all that closely, but it seemed to have been a while since there had been any deaths in motorbikes, that I can remember, until Simoncelli last year. Then again until you said about Antonelli, I hadn't seen that one either, so maybe I have just missed the reports.

I am not sure about other forms of motor racing, again I don't get to follow them all that closely, but has there been an increase in other series?

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I'm not sure if there's actually been an increase or not, I just seem to remember hearing about more than usual this year. Obviously there was Le Mans recently but shamefully my memory fails me on the other examples. I don't follow many of forms of racing either and I think there have been some others in the US and perhaps in sportscars or rallying. I don't know, it just feels like a strange year, especially considering some of the accidents in MotoGP lately and the dangerous circumstances in F1 (pitlane incident and car rolling backwards).

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I'm not sure if there's actually been an increase or not, I just seem to remember hearing about more than usual this year. Obviously there was Le Mans recently but shamefully my memory fails me on the other examples. I don't follow many of forms of racing either and I think there have been some others in the US and perhaps in sportscars or rallying. I don't know, it just feels like a strange year, especially considering some of the accidents in MotoGP lately and the dangerous circumstances in F1 (pitlane incident and car rolling backwards).

Ermmm...sorry, but I think that the inclusion of F1 is not justified. The two accidents were pretty mild. Of course we can imagine a scenario a thousand times worse but nevertheless, tragic (or not) as they might seem they are part of the expected hazards in an inherently dangerous sport.

Compared with other seasons they are almost inconsequential, and I am not comparing with 1994, mind you. Let's see a few other incidents in the past few years:

- Perez crash at Monaco.

- Grosjean almost shaving Nando's brow at La Source.

- Massa and the naughty fuel hose

- At least a couple other tires (I can't remember the exact situations but I recall one falling from quite some height after bouncing and the picture of another being barely avoided by a couple of pit crew from another team)

- Buemi being ovetaken by his two front tires...

- And, above all, the only, true tragic accident in recent times in F1: Maria de Villota's.

Any of those would have made for a more grim coincidence than the two accidents you named, so I think this year is pretty average on that regard.

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Ermmm...sorry, but I think that the inclusion of F1 is not justified. The two accidents were pretty mild. Of course we can imagine a scenario a thousand times worse but nevertheless, tragic (or not) as they might seem they are part of the expected hazards in an inherently dangerous sport.

Compared with other seasons they are almost inconsequential, and I am not comparing with 1994, mind you. Let's see a few other incidents in the past few years:

- Perez crash at Monaco.

- Grosjean almost shaving Nando's brow at La Source.

- Massa and the naughty fuel hose

- At least a couple other tires (I can't remember the exact situations but I recall one falling from quite some height after bouncing and the picture of another being barely avoided by a couple of pit crew from another team)

- Buemi being ovetaken by his two front tires...

- And, above all, the only, true tragic accident in recent times in F1: Maria de Villota's.

Any of those would have made for a more grim coincidence than the two accidents you named, so I think this year is pretty average on that regard.

Oh, I wasn't trying to make any serious case here, I was just talking generally and not particularly logically about having a bad feeling laugh.png If I wanted to make a case it was a worse year, I would try to look up how many drivers actually died this year in various categories compared to previous years (I have a feeling it is more), rather than basing this on my awful memory (I actually did try to Google that but I wasn't too successful). Even if I was making some serious case, my mention of F1 would be tangential to that because I agree the accidents in F1 were not more dangerous than usual.

Like I said, just a somewhat bad feeling about this year based on some things I can't remember too well, and perhaps that some of the accidents/potential accidents I've seen had the capacity to be much more dangerous than they were without a stretch of the imagination (not just in F1).

I think there might be another reason I am becoming slightly more sensitive/nervous of safety issues, but maybe I'll do another post on that (no, it isn't that this year contains "13").

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Yes, I thought it was more of a feeling than anything else, that is why I tried to cheer you up about F1 :D

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Good news! The Dacia Sander...oops, sorry, the A1 Ring is back in 2014!

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It does seem to be creeping back in. That's 2 in 2 years at the higher levels of motorbikes. I don't follow them all that closely, but it seemed to have been a while since there had been any deaths in motorbikes, that I can remember, until Simoncelli last year. Then again until you said about Antonelli, I hadn't seen that one either, so maybe I have just missed the reports.

I am not sure about other forms of motor racing, again I don't get to follow them all that closely, but has there been an increase in other series?

Actually, sorry to be picky but Simoncelli died during the race in Sepang in 2011, so it wasn't last year, it was actually two years ago in a few weeks time. I know, the years zip by quicker than you thought they had don't they?

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I think, for me, what has happened elsewhere has made everything that happened in F1 seem a lot worse. I'm already on edge, so when something goes wrong in a Grand Prix, it really makes me worried.

It's definitely been a tough year for racing, and I wish there would be more collaborations in safety. "Oh, well, that's a NASCAR problem" or "oh, that only happens on bikes" or whatever are attitudes I've heard around the Internet, and I don't really agree. I think a lot of series know different things about safety that might be useful to other series. F1 and IndyCar should be working together on exploring whether or not closed cockpits would be beneficial. NASCAR and IndyCar should be working together to figure out a solution to catchfencing, such that it 1) actually keeps the fans safe and 2) doesn't cause the severe driver injury/death that has happened. I'm sure other series could work together on some safety procedures, too, whether that's about employing red flags in dangerous conditions (which seem to be involved with the most recent incident) or blocking rules or pit lane rules. Variety in technical regulations avoids redundancy, but some uniformity in safety regulations might benefit all so long as there is the flexibility to make sure specific concerns of disciplines are addressed, too.

Recall that some of the greatest safety developments recently were universal:

1. The HANS device, which was originally designed for drag racing, is now used in just about all car racing.

2. The SAFER barrier for oval racing, which was developed by the University of Nebraska with help from IndyCar. NASCAR and their tracks were instrumental in actually distributing it beyond Indianapolis.

3. Run-off room and other track improvements. Typically added for F1, a lot of other series share those same tracks.

Even now, with the ALMS and Grand-Am merging to form one series, Grand-Am has already made a safety change to the ALMS cars. I believe it's something that was actually pioneered in NASCAR, as far as U.S. racing goes, which makes sense, as NASCAR owns Grand-Am and ALMS now.

So, there's something to be said for that, I think.

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Actually, sorry to be picky but Simoncelli died during the race in Sepang in 2011, so it wasn't last year, it was actually two years ago in a few weeks time. I know, the years zip by quicker than you thought they had don't they?

Geez. Indeed they do.

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Problem with enclosed c#ckpits (damn the c#cking c#ck-catching word filter...) is that they are a double edged sword - whilst they may save the driver from an impact like a tyre, or Massa's "spring to the head" incident - I can see problems where they may not help/could make things worse - e.g. if the car was upside down and on fire, stopping driver getting out, etc.

I've been amazed by the improvements in safety since I was a nipper (yes, they did have internal combustion engines then :P ) and indeed death, injury and nasty crashes were all treated then as part of the spectacle and certainly lighter than they are now. A dark time in motor-racing...

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Problem with enclosed c#ckpits (damn the c#cking c#ck-catching word filter...) is that they are a double edged sword - whilst they may save the driver from an impact like a tyre, or Massa's "spring to the head" incident - I can see problems where they may not help/could make things worse - e.g. if the car was upside down and on fire, stopping driver getting out, etc.

I've been amazed by the improvements in safety since I was a nipper (yes, they did have internal combustion engines then tongue.png ) and indeed death, injury and nasty crashes were all treated then as part of the spectacle and certainly lighter than they are now. A dark time in motor-racing...

Another issue with the enclosed c#ckpits, what happens when it rains? I mean we've all seen the way the spray comes up, and somehow I doubt windscreen wipers would work at that speed.

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I think not so long ago the FIA were investigating closed c#ckpits and considering all of those difficult issues.

Since we're talking safety, the FIA has introduced grid penalties for when wheels come off cars. http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108955

Like I've argued in the past, I'm not sure this will actually make any difference to safety (though I would agree with the argument it sends the right message that the FIA takes the issue seriously). I'm just not convinced it's effective. Mistakes happen because teams are in a hurry to do competitive pit stops, and the risk of grid penalties won't change that fact. It also has the undesirable consequence of punishing drivers for something which isn't their fault. Why not design a penalty that only impacts the team? It would probably be equally ineffective but it achieves the same message without the consequence of punishing the faultless driver.

In terms of other solutions, I can understand why teams are reluctant to introduce a minimum stop time, because it's an important competitive part of the sport. What I don't understand is why a mechanical solution isn't or hasn't been looked at more closely (as far as I know). I think that's what Massa was sort of talking about in that article.

--------------------------------------

Looks like Horner has confirmed what we already knew, that Vergne isn't a candidate for the Red Bull seat: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108951

In lighter news, and for Kimi fans only biggrin.png (21 minutes 50 seconds in, unless of course you want to hear the other "interesting" drivers too!) https://docs.google....HF4X1Z0eVE/edit

Edited by Rainmaster

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Since we're talking safety, the FIA has introduced grid penalties for when wheels come off cars.

Wow. That's four grid penalties for every car in every pit stop... oh wait, I see what you mean :)

Why not design a penalty that only impacts the team?

A ha! For those teams that transgress, force them to use wheel guns powered by compressed custard instead of compressed air! (moves slower, less compressible). :D

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Wow. That's four grid penalties for every car in every pit stop... oh wait, I see what you mean smile.png

A ha! For those teams that transgress, force them to use wheel guns powered by compressed custard instead of compressed air! (moves slower, less compressible). biggrin.png

You should work at the FIA Grabman!

Apparently they are looking at pitstop technology and teams are investigating different wheel retention systems. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108969

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You should work at the FIA Grabman!

Apparently they are looking at pitstop technology and teams are investigating different wheel retention systems. http://www.autosport...t.php/id/108969

Don't encourage him!! It will be Custard F1 if he has his way!! ;)

Edited by Angellica

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