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wapi

3 Cars On The Grid

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In the FOTA announcement primarily concerned with BMW leaving the sport, another idea was published.

FOTA suggests that each team fields 3 cars. Why do you think they want that?

My opinion is that they can find sponsors associated to drivers to contribute more than additional car would cost to be run.

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maybe that will give the teams a greater chance to show their sponsors and therefore more companies will be atracted to invest in F1, I can really think of another reason.

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you see why i believe in bernie? fota has no sense.

You should believe in someone younger ;)

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A few benefits spring to mind,

  • More television exposure
  • More scope for testing new parts
  • A chance to give young drivers...a chance
  • Helps to fill up the grid so it doesn't look empty and ridiculous
  • Actually running another car isn't that expensive, most of the expense in F1 surely comes from design.

Doesn't seem like a terrible idea to me, of course it's better to fix the root of the problem of diminishing grids rather than applying quick remedies - but as quick remedies go, not such a bad one.

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@wapi: want to apply for the role? lol [/jk]

@ElMaestro: - you do not get more tv exposure because at the same time u get one more car, all other teams do, so it's divided between more cars. gets more crowded, thatd b the word.

- and less money to get new parts, because they will have to get more two for the extra car.

- young drivers do have chances. alguersueri got there w no driving at all. we dont need more bad rookies.

- you mean you miss the massive crash at starts, when we had 30 min off for a red flag?

- we are cutting costs. its one more car to be produced, one more driver to be paid, a dozen extra mechanics to be hired...

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@ElMaestro: - you do not get more tv exposure because at the same time u get one more car, all other teams do, so it's divided between more cars. gets more crowded, thatd b the word.

- and less money to get new parts, because they will have to get more two for the extra car.

- young drivers do have chances. alguersueri got there w no driving at all. we dont need more bad rookies.

- you mean you miss the massive crash at starts, when we had 30 min off for a red flag?

- we are cutting costs. its one more car to be produced, one more driver to be paid, a dozen extra mechanics to be hired...

1) I concede that my thinking was a bit flawed there :P (enjoy this moment). If all teams did run 3 cars then the exposure would be divided up just the same as it is now, so my idea fails on that part; unless of course all the crap teams put young, rubbish drivers in and waited for them to crash, that would be one way of them getting tv exposure. I should run this sport, not.

2) A negligible cost when compared with the millions that goes into design (e.g. CFD, Wind tunnel usage, testing). Cost reduction should focus on the design element, that is where the money is going, i.e. it costs more to design an F1 car, than it does to build and run one.

3) Young drivers do have chances, but maybe not enough. The only reason Algu-jazeera (or whatever his name is) got a seat is because Bourdais got kicked; rare occurrence. If he turns out to be semi-decent he may have been a talent we missed out on easily enough. Young drivers should be given testing exemptions so that they can get experienced before entering F1, once they have proven valuable in testing a 3rd car would allow them a seat.

4) Bah, that doesn't happen these days. Drivers know that if they bugger around at the start they are likely to be heavily penalised and probably lose their job. The turn one crashes are gone in corporate F1, and I don't think bigger grids will bring them back either.

5) Which is still a negligible cost compared to what gets spent on design and refinement.

Don't be too concerned about what makes business sense for teams, that is their problem, if they want to spend a (relatively small) amount fielding a 3rd car then it's up to them. It gives us viewers the chance of more racing and that is our concern ;)

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I'm not concerned, won't happen ^^ the point is that still it'd be adding costs instead of cutting them. for sure ferrari and mclaren can afford a third seat, but i do not think the back-field teams will be able to afford two competitive cars, now imagine three.

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I doubt it will happen either, mostly because the catalyst for that suggestion was BMW pulling out, except there is a likelihood that the team will carry on in another form: so we won't lose two cars anyway so the suggestion is moot.

If there were 3 car teams though, I don't think it would be all that bad. Instead of patching up the grid like that though they should be trying to ensure that they don't have to patch up the grid in the first place with some sensible cost cutting measures (emphasis on sensible).

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fota is again suggesting things that would be 'attractive to fans' (they so called it), to get support. it's a continuation of the 'cheap tickets', 'traditional tracks' and 'fan-friendly politics' they've announced when they tried to split of fia. again, i wonder how long it'd last, how far it'd go, and what does it have to do with bmw at all lol. just because max had said formula one couldn't depend on manufacturers? ^^

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What do you prefer a 3rd car for Ferrari, McLaren, Toyota, Renault etc or a lot of new teams with 40 million cap?

a third car is a good oportunity to see new talent in good cars

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whats the point in having an extra seat in the existent teams instead of another team then?

3rd seat -

33% more seats in commited teams

more expensive sponsoring deals ( can result in less closed deals )

more cost for the team

slight more investment in formula one

a new team -

2 more seats in each new commited team

more sponsoring deals ( smaller prices, but winning in quantity )

less cost for each team

more investment in formula one

new merchandising/image usage return ( + introduction of formula one to new groups -> more money )

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Is this a sneaky way to try and get Schumi back into Ferrari with a 3rd car? Haha, wishful thinking.

But to be honest, as much as another manufacturer leaving IS a downer, teams will come and go, no doubt as with Brawn replacing Honda somebody will replace BMW in due course. At least in a way it is good to have this announcement now rather than at the end of the year, because there is more time to find a buyer. I doubt much will change apart from a new team name and different colours for the cars.

Back to the 3rd car deal, i'd say no. Not now whilst the economy, whilst getting slightly better, is still very shakey. Forcing privateers to get the funds to run a 3rd car would be stupid, and in my view you'd see privateers like USF1, Campos and Manor Grand Prix, heck, maybe even Force India and Williams dropping out because they can't afford it. On the face of it, it looks good with more cars on the grid, but at this moment in time the idea is full of problems. Likewise if only the big budget manufacturers ran a 3rd car, they'd be, essentially, at an advantage. Having 3 cars would mean a good set-up for a race would be easier to find and theny could just monopolise F1. A uneven playing field for F1 has already been snuffed at once this year, so i doubt things have changed when it comes to that.

Maybe another time, another year, it's a good idea, but it isn't good timing.

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A few benefits spring to mind,

  • More television exposure
  • More scope for testing new parts
  • A chance to give young drivers...a chance
  • Helps to fill up the grid so it doesn't look empty and ridiculous
  • Actually running another car isn't that expensive, most of the expense in F1 surely comes from design.

Doesn't seem like a terrible idea to me, of course it's better to fix the root of the problem of diminishing grids rather than applying quick remedies - but as quick remedies go, not such a bad one.

Another consideration is that top drivers will be more likely to stack onto top teams. We would be less likely to see 5-7 teams 'captained' by a high quality driver with a secondary, less prominent driver in tow.

A side effect of this is that it could increase the disparity between top teams and the small fish, however when only 1 or 2 teams are competing for the WDC as happens many years, it will be more exciting with 3 or 6 drivers in the frey with a chance to take the top step each weekend.

I'm not concerned, won't happen ^^ the point is that still it'd be adding costs instead of cutting them. for sure ferrari and mclaren can afford a third seat, but i do not think the back-field teams will be able to afford two competitive cars, now imagine three.

Steve Machett was talking about this on the SPEED network this past weekend here in America, in regards to Hamilton having a new front wing that Kovy did not. Apparently the creation of the aluminum molds is the expensive part, pouring carbon fiber and creating car components is marginally more expensive. Once you've got the designs and the molds, duplication is not exceptionally expensive. Of course there are all sorts of other costs that come along with a third car, not just fabrication.

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The three car idea was to make way for Schumi to come back

Nah, Schumi had a more direct way of getting his ride this season...lets just say I saw him fiddling around the back of Barrichello's car before qualifying. Puts Rascasse-gate in a whole new light. The cheeky devil.

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schumi doesnt need a third seat. he can get a first seat in any of those teams. they all dream of him calling.

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The three car idea was to make way for Schumi to come back

Nope, it was to make room for Monty. If he wants a drive in F1 he needs 3 cars by himself.

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Why not third car in different livery? i.e. different sponsors? Quashes some points raised above.

Maybe someone there has been looking to see why CART was so successful in the '90's and almost topped F1 for viewership. BAR wanted to run two liveries as they could get more money, instead some wallies made them do that horrible zip livery.

More cars the merrier - if its an option to run 3, then let em do it. I don't care about their spending....that's their own perogative and sensible teams don't over spend in the first place.

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Why not third car in different livery? i.e. different sponsors? Quashes some points raised above.

IndyCar does that! Andretti Green Racing have 4 cars but all have completely different sponsors!

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Maybe they can put 2 car and refuelling machine on the grid. Or 3 car and a snowcat. Or a second grid 200 meters behind with one truck per team. or... all the morons of the FOTA so people can see their lovely faces and Flavio

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