Schumi Back In The Saddle Again

[Rainmaster 7]

and you call yerself a Kimi fan....traitor!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, but it has limits, I'm a realist too!

Yes one motorbike race and a handful of european races on the pitwall as opposed to an F1 driver's season :S You make total sense. Remember, unlike the rest of the grid who0'll **** everything that moves, he does have a family - it isn't much of a stretch to believe he wants to spend time with them. It's not like Lewis Hamilton quitting F1 to spend more time with the pussycat dolls.

Sorry, I didn't hear you - could you write that in caps lock for me?

For me the fact that he immediately started doing bike racing, and continued turning up at F1 events, sort of undermines the idea that he lost his motivation to stay fit; especially considering he is fit enough to return now almost 3 years later - 'cos that makes sense yes?

The whole "I want to be with my family more" excuse for retirement has been dragged out by many sportsmen, and it's usually bollocks. Recently I heard Rubens Barrichello saying something similar, that he may not be in F1 next year because he wants to spend more time with his family...

[Ikyrotz 0]

Nah...you all know who is the one and only that kicked Schumi's a## fair and square. That is the the guy MS would like to be able to race again.

Of course we do. It's... Mika!

[pabloh20 1]

No. "Scared" is the wrong word for what I am suggesting was a factor in Schumacher's decision. I don't think he was "scared" of Kimi in the sense of fear or loss of courage or anything like that. I suggest that it was probably a factor in his decision; and potentially a deciding one. He wasn't scared, he just thought after 7 titles he could do without the challenge.

I suspect Kimi doesn't care that much, largely due to his personality, but also because if Kimi even cares about his reputation then he probably already realises it isn't that great lately, so why would it bother him if Schumacher happens to outperform him? Likewise, Schumacher's reputation is no longer under threat and that's why he's willing to be in the same team as Kimi.

Maybe I am giving F1 drivers too much credit in general (as I don't think too many of them would run from a challenge), but I don't think it was ever a factor in Schumi's decisions. It's not like he's ever shyed away from a challenge. Indeed, I don't think he would have entered the race of champions (even if it is a fun event) if he was that afraid of 'tarnishing' his reputation.

Let's be honest, considering the rumour that Montezemelo whatchamacallit, is supposed to have put pressure on him to retire, I could say that Kimi only signed for Ferrari on the understanding that they would get rid of Schumi. It would have as much credibility as your theory

[pabloh20 1]

Of course we do. It's... Mika!

Indeed. Schumi does say he was his best competitor and most enjoyable time for him in racing.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Yeah, but it has limits, I'm a realist too!

I'm going to repeat your statement,"(probably a decision he regrets now because he almost certainly would have thrashed him).", look at your statement carefully, digest it. Now think of Raikkonen with his first year at Ferrari. Where is the realism in that statement, it's completely unfounded!

[Quiet One 15]

Indeed. Schumi does say he was his best competitor and most enjoyable time for him in racing.

That's only because they get along better outside the track than with Nando. And because Mika loved to cry like a baby when he lost to Schumi. But FA was more challenging to him.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Indeed. Schumi does say he was his best competitor and most enjoyable time for him in racing.

Mika had his weaknesses. Although he dug deepest when the prize was greatest, he was a fragile and insecure figure.

[pabloh20 1]

That's only because they get along better outside the track than with Nando. And because Mika loved to cry like a baby when he lost to Schumi. But FA was more challenging to him.

Bollocks. Nando has cried loads of times, but it's just that his eyebrows are so big they have their own gravity, so the tears get dragged upwards and consumed.

Mika had his weaknesses. Although he dug deepest when the prize was greatest, he was a fragile and insecure figure.

You don't get to be world champion by being fragile and insecure

[wapi 4]

A thought provoking view on Schumi's return, here clickensee

There is no view. There is only hatred.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

You don't get to be world champion by being fragile and insecure

you get it by having the dominant and fastest car on the grid...like Nando, MS and Mika. Wether you fragile or break down in tears with a helicopter hovering over you while you think the championship is over.... F1 pundits will tell you how fragile and insecure Mika really was, I guess the father figure of Ron Dennis helped him with that aspect as he was the darling of the team.

edit: I just realise how applicable the last statement is to Fernando's championship years too, when he acted like a spoilt kid who threw his toys when things did'nt go his way...

[pabloh20 1]

you get it by having the dominant and fastest car on the grid...like Nando, MS and Mika. Wether you fragile or break down in tears with a helicopter hovering over you while you think the championship is over.... F1 pundits will tell you how fragile and insecure Mika really was, I guess the father figure of Ron Dennis helped him with that aspect as he was the darling of the team.

Wuld you like some bollocks with those sour grapes???

[Rainmaster 7]

Maybe I am giving F1 drivers too much credit in general (as I don't think too many of them would run from a challenge), but I don't think it was ever a factor in Schumi's decisions. It's not like he's ever shyed away from a challenge. Indeed, I don't think he would have entered the race of champions (even if it is a fun event) if he was that afraid of 'tarnishing' his reputation.

Let's be honest, considering the rumour that Montezemelo whatchamacallit, is supposed to have put pressure on him to retire, I could say that Kimi only signed for Ferrari on the understanding that they would get rid of Schumi. It would have as much credibility as your theory

He never shyed away from a challenge, but he never had a team mate on equal terms either, maybe towards the end of his successful career he felt he didn't need the hassle/challenge, and he preferred to keep it that way. Maybe not, I don't claim to know, and neither should you. I don't really see the problem with it though if that is what happened, anybody could understand Schumacher not feeling the need to go out and beat Raikkonen over a season. As for RoC, nope not the same. Nobody's reputation is on the line in the RoC, it's not like anybody is going to say "did you hear that Michael Schumacher, 7 times world champion but crashed out of the RoC, he must be a rubbish driver". Racing against a bunch of other highly skilled racer's from other categories for fun does not have the same bearing on someone's reputation as racing in Formula One for a season. When Kova won the RoC nobody proclaimed him an exceptionally gifted driver, likewise if Schumi did crap no one could claim he was a poor driver.

Nope, your theory is dependant on completely unprovable rumour, my theory is based on Herr Schumacher's actions post retirement. His actions do not fit his words, so in my opinion it was a number of things which lead to his retirement, e.g. the reaction from the Monaco incident, the fact he'd satisfied what he wanted to do in the sport, and the hiring of Raikkonen, and maybe spending more time with his family was somewhere near the bottom of that list.

I'm going to repeat your statement,"(probably a decision he regrets now because he almost certainly would have thrashed him).", look at your statement carefully, digest it. Now think of Raikkonen with his first year at Ferrari. Where is the realism in that statement, it's completely unfounded!

It would have been nice to see Schumi vs Raikkonen in 2007, maybe it would've been quite close...sadly we'll never know 'cos Schumi is such a pussy :whistling emoticon:

[Rainmaster 7]

A thought provoking view on Schumi's return, here clickensee

[BradSpeedMan 6]

It would have been nice to see Schumi vs Raikkonen in 2007, maybe it would've been quite close...sadly we'll never know 'cos Schumi is such a pussy :whistling emoticon:

I just realise, how could it not occur to me.....I guess you're more a Schumacher fan than a Kimi fan...am I right?

There's not alot of you around, that is, a Schumacher turned Kimi fan.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Wuld you like some bollocks with those sour grapes???

you still don't believe me? Paul, I'm serious here

[pabloh20 1]

He never shyed away from a challenge, but he never had a team mate on equal terms either, maybe towards the end of his successful career he felt he didn't need the hassle/challenge, and he preferred to keep it that way. Maybe not, I don't claim to know, and neither should you. I don't really see the problem with it though if that is what happened, anybody could understand Schumacher not feeling the need to go out and beat Raikkonen over a season. As for RoC, nope not the same. Nobody's reputation is on the line in the RoC, it's not like anybody is going to say "did you hear that Michael Schumacher, 7 times world champion but crashed out of the RoC, he must be a rubbish driver". Racing against a bunch of other highly skilled racer's from other categories for fun does not have the same bearing on someone's reputation as racing in Formula One for a season. When Kova won the RoC nobody proclaimed him an exceptionally gifted driver, likewise if Schumi did crap no one could claim he was a poor driver.

Nope, your theory is dependant on completely unprovable rumour, my theory is based on Herr Schumacher's actions post retirement. His actions do not fit his words, so in my opinion it was a number of things which lead to his retirement, e.g. the reaction from the Monaco incident, the fact he'd satisfied what he wanted to do in the sport, and the hiring of Raikkonen, and maybe spending more time with his family was somewhere near the bottom of that list.

I'm not claiming to know, I'm just claiming your wrong

However, if you are admitting to not knowing, then you have to take Schumi and his reasons at face value.

Regarding the RoC, I am not saying that his reputation would be tarnished to the general public, however, if he was that bothered about competing with other drivers on equal terms, and in some cases terms balanced in favour of other drives in the RoC, then he just wouldn't do it. To me that's an indication that he would have quite happily taken on anybody coming into 'his' team in a car that was probably developed towards his driving style.

It would have been nice to see Schumi vs Raikkonen in 2007, maybe it would've been quite close...sadly we'll never know 'cos Schumi is such a pussy :whistling emoticon:

He always had a team mate on equal terms............he just beat them like he was their Daddy at the start of the season and then they had to become his b!tch. Which is exactly what he would have done to Kimi {whistling emoticon]

[Rainmaster 7]

you get it by having the dominant and fastest car on the grid...like Nando, MS and Mika. Wether you fragile or break down in tears with a helicopter hovering over you while you think the championship is over.... F1 pundits will tell you how fragile and insecure Mika really was, I guess the father figure of Ron Dennis helped him with that aspect as he was the darling of the team.

edit: I just realise how applicable the last statement is to Fernando's championship years too, when he acted like a spoilt kid who threw his toys when things did'nt go his way...

I think your right about that, lots of sportsmen are insecure deep down and I do think Mika was one of those (out of the c#ckpit).

I just realise, how could it not occur to me.....I guess you're more a Schumacher fan than a Kimi fan...am I right?

There's not alot of you around, that is, a Schumacher turned Kimi fan.

Depends how you mean. Schumacher was a better driver, due to his consistency and application of his talent. Kimi is just as talented in my opinion, but less complete, and his application/attitude isn't as admirable. However, I identify more with Kimi (just waiting for someone to tell me sports has nothing to do with personality, yeah right) because he seems like a more chilled out, intelligent person, he reminds me of myself more than Schumacher does (who never showed any kind of good personality or integrity). So basically Schumi is the kind of sportsmen we love to hate, and Kimi is (sort of) the one we hate to love, because he doesn't seem at all bothered yet he still wins. Saying that, Schumi won 7 titles and Kimi will only probably end up with 1, so the universe is fair in this regard because MS worked much harder and got rewarded better....but he'll never be as cool or have as much fun as Raikkonen. Maybe.

[pabloh20 1]

I just realise, how could it not occur to me.....I guess you're more a Schumacher fan than a Kimi fan...am I right?

There's not alot of you around, that is, a Schumacher turned Kimi fan.

I think you may have read By George's post a bit wrong there, Bradley

you still don't believe me? Paul, I'm serious here

Overcompensating, I think is the term, Brad

[F1 FANatic 1]

MS retired because F1 was no longer a challenge for him. He'd done it all. It's not hard to imagine. Getting back in at this juncture would almost be impossible for most individuals. The rigorous medical tests associated with re-acquiring a Super Licence may prove difficult for some individuals with little under four weeks to prepare, specifically the neck strength tests but in Michael's case, politics will probably win the day. The granting of Super Licences has become something of a joke over the years. To qualify for an FIA Super Licence the requesting driver must already be the holder of a Grade A competition licence, and additionally meet the requirements of the FIA International Sporting Code, Appendix L. These requirements state that the driver must be either the reigning champion in a lower category of motor sport, for example Formula 3 (British, Italian or Japanese championship, or Euroseries) or GP2 Series (formerly known as Formula 3000), or must have consistently finished well in these categories. For example, a driver finishing in the first three positions five times within the last two years in GP2 will be eligible for a Super Licence. Additionally, drivers who have competed in the IndyCar Series are eligible for a Super Licence if they finished within the first six places of the drivers championship. This allows drivers from the United States domestic series to move into Formula One without first taking part in other FIA sanctioned events. Under exceptional circumstances Appendix L also allows the FIA to award a Super Licence to a driver who does not meet the normal criteria if a vote reveals unanimous agreement by the members, and provided that the driver has completed 300 kilometres of testing at racing speeds in a current car. Neither Raikkonen or Davidson were eligible under any of the above Regulations or Appendix L when they joined their teams. Go figure. The FIA's Chief Medical Officer, Professor Sid Watkins will have to issue a Medical Certificate Of Aptitude to MS and although Sid is a very strict examiner, the pressure from the FIA, FOM and SF will be enormous. Having said that, I don't believe Michael will race if he feels he is less than 100% fit for the job in hand.

There is one more way to qualify for a super-license though, and that is the way schumi will be eligible for his. Any former F1 competitor is eligible for a super-license if he has raced in 15 F1 GPs in the last 3 seasons. Since this is the 09 season, the 06 07 and 08 seasons are counted, it doesn't matter that its half way through the season.

Secondly, to say that a doctor, especially someone of Sid Watkins caliber would be bent with political pressure to allow an unfit man into F1 is absolutely ridiculous, especially with what has happened to Felipe and Henry in the past few weeks. If Michael was to get hurt because of a medical problem that would be the death knell for F1

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I think your right about that, lots of sportsmen are insecure deep down and I do think Mika was one of those (out of the c#ckpit).

Depends how you mean. Schumacher was a better driver, due to his consistency and application of his talent. Kimi is just as talented in my opinion, but less complete, and his application/attitude isn't as admirable. However, I identify more with Kimi (just waiting for someone to tell me sports has nothing to do with personality, yeah right) because he seems like a more chilled out, intelligent person, he reminds me of myself more than Schumacher does (who never showed any kind of good personality or integrity). So basically Schumi is the kind of sportsmen we love to hate, and Kimi is (sort of) the one we hate to love, because he doesn't seem at all bothered yet he still wins. Saying that, Schumi won 7 titles and Kimi will only probably end up with 1, so the universe is fair in this regard because MS worked much harder and got rewarded better....but he'll never be as cool or have as much fun as Raikkonen. Maybe.

If we have to go by what you say here, then it means that Kimi is more talented than Schumie, because he does'nt require the application and the long hours (the hard work) that Schumie need to be the fastest.

[pabloh20 1]

I think your right about that, lots of sportsmen are insecure deep down and I do think Mika was one of those (out of the c#ckpit).

In all serious now, it's not something I would have ever associated with Mika. Yeah, I know he had his cry in the woods, but to me I always thought that was just the outpouring of emotion due to being stretched to the limit and always hiding the emotions. I am not saying you and Brad are wrong, just not something I would associate with Mika. Personally, I think he was a more fearce competitor than most of the current bunch of F1.

Depends how you mean. Schumacher was a better driver, due to his consistency and application of his talent. Kimi is just as talented in my opinion, but less complete, and his application/attitude isn't as admirable. However, I identify more with Kimi (just waiting for someone to tell me sports has nothing to do with personality, yeah right) because he seems like a more chilled out, intelligent person, he reminds me of myself more than Schumacher does (who never showed any kind of good personality or integrity). So basically Schumi is the kind of sportsmen we love to hate, and Kimi is (sort of) the one we hate to love, because he doesn't seem at all bothered yet he still wins. Saying that, Schumi won 7 titles and Kimi will only probably end up with 1, so the universe is fair in this regard because MS worked much harder and got rewarded better....but he'll never be as cool or have as much fun as Raikkonen. Maybe.

Interesting and very similar to my own views, except that I think Kimi's attitude is admirable

[pabloh20 1]

If we have to go by what you say here, then it means that Kimi is more talented than Schumie, because he does'nt require the application and the long hours (the hard work) that Schumie need to be the fastest.

I think what George means, if I have read correctly, is that he thinks Kimi and Schumi are of an equal talent, in that Kimi is as fast as Schumi and vice versa, but that Schumi has made more of that talent by working harder.

[Rainmaster 7]

I'm not claiming to know, I'm just claiming your wrong

However, if you are admitting to not knowing, then you have to take Schumi and his reasons at face value.

Regarding the RoC, I am not saying that his reputation would be tarnished to the general public, however, if he was that bothered about competing with other drivers on equal terms, and in some cases terms balanced in favour of other drives in the RoC, then he just wouldn't do it. To me that's an indication that he would have quite happily taken on anybody coming into 'his' team in a car that was probably developed towards his driving style.

He always had a team mate on equal terms............he just beat them like he was their Daddy at the start of the season and then they had to become his b!tch. Which is exactly what he would have done to Kimi {whistling emoticon]

Ah well, you can claim I'm wrong but if you don't know either then it's all bollocky bollocks isn't it? Trust me, this will go quicker and less painful if you 1) agree with me or 2) accept either explanation might be true!

I don't have to take anything at face value just because I don't know it's not true, that doesn't sound like a smart way of living to me! Better to question these things, and we get these fun debates like these, which are so much fun. Besides, everybody knows when it comes to a liar liar pants on fire like Schumacher you have to be on your guard - if you left him alone with your granny he would probably try to force her off the track or something like that. The cheeky devil.

As for the RoC, well I see your point (nice piercing, btw) but I can't agree that competing in a one off event for fun is really anything like competing over a full season of F1 - that's sounds like bollocky bollocks on your part to me Also, the mere hiring of Kimi for such money would have been a strong indication to Schumi that the days of it being "his" team were probably over.

Yep, I think he would have done that too and that's the way it would have gone down. Shame we'll never know, thanks Michael

If we have to go by what you say here, then it means that Kimi is more talented than Schumie, because he does'nt require the application and the long hours (the hard work) that Schumie need to be the fastest.

Mmm that would only work if he won a similar amount of titles or had as much success as Schumi. He's good Brad, just not that good

In all serious now, it's not something I would have ever associated with Mika. Yeah, I know he had his cry in the woods, but to me I always thought that was just the outpouring of emotion due to being stretched to the limit and always hiding the emotions. I am not saying you and Brad are wrong, just not something I would associate with Mika. Personally, I think he was a more fearce competitor than most of the current bunch of F1.

Interesting and very similar to my own views, except that I think Kimi's attitude is admirable

I think Mika was a fierce competitor too, but out of the c#ckpit it did seem to get to him so I think in that regard it was a weakness (although not a real weakness because it didn't affect his driving). I think Alonso and Hammy are pretty strong competitors though, it would've been fun to see more battles between Schumi and them.

As for Kimi, yeah I agree actually, he's done alright for himself with his attitude

[Rainmaster 7]

I think what George means, if I have read correctly, is that he thinks Kimi and Schumi are of an equal talent, in that Kimi is as fast as Schumi and vice versa, but that Schumi has made more of that talent by working harder.

Pretty much, yup.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I think what George means, if I have read correctly, is that he thinks Kimi and Schumi are of an equal talent, in that Kimi is as fast as Schumi and vice versa, but that Schumi has made more of that talent by working harder.

ok, after rereading George post I agree