Kati

Renault Under Investigation?

600 posts in this topic

This from Associated Press article in Wall Street Journal... source

"Mr. Alonso, who wasn't expected to attend the meeting, is likely to be questioned over Mr. Briatore's role."

hmm

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This from Associated Press article in Wall Street Journal... source

"Mr. Alonso, who wasn't expected to attend the meeting, is likely to be questioned over Mr. Briatore's role."

hmm

I just read on TF1 a link to an article "BRIATORE ADMITS RESPONSIBILITY". Wow! Big news, I thought, and promptly clicked on the link. Don't bother. All it says is that Mr.Pelata said that before leaving Briatore told him that he felt morally responsible for what happened. :meh:

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NobleF1 Two year suspended ban for Renault

less than 10 seconds ago from web

NobleF1 Lifetime FIA ban for Flavio Briatore. Five-year ban for Pat Symonds

less than 10 seconds ago from web

OUCH. Noble is Autosport editor, btw.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wmsc/2009/Pages/wmsc_210909.aspx FIA PR

Edited by Kati

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As regards Mr. Briatore, the World Motor Sport Council declares that, for an unlimited period, the FIA does not intend to sanction any International Event, Championship, Cup, Trophy, Challenge or Series involving Mr. Briatore in any capacity whatsoever, or grant any license to any Team or other entity engaging Mr. Briatore in any capacity whatsoever. It also hereby instructs all officials present at FIA-sanctioned events not to permit Mr. Briatore access to any areas under the FIA

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Renault (the parent company, as opposed to Renault F1) committed to making a significant contribution to FIA safety-related projects.

i like this piece ^^

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That's EXACTLY how I expected it turn out.

the World Motor Sport Council has had regard not only to the severityof the breach in which Mr. Briatore was complicit but also to his actions in continuing to deny his participation in the breach despiteall the evidence.

Flav was always Max's target - it doesn't matter that he still maintains his innocence or that the evidence against him orchestrating this accident ammounts to Jnr's say so.

What this basically means is because he didn't roll over himself, they're going to punish him further.

Talk about vendetta. FIA has become Max's toy army. Disgraceful.

On the other hand Flav got what was coming to him - ha

Edited by adamstrags

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In addition - the funniest part is that FIA got Renault to say Flav was guilty, still without having to give any evidence of this. That way FIA manage to avoid having to make that verdict stick themselves - brilliant.

Plus FIA has a new cow to milk in Renault F1 - who get off with basically nothing apart from paying for the investigation and 'significant' money towards safety research.

Alonso's home and dry too - personally I don't have an opinion either way on that.

Edited by adamstrags

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So what about the race result? they don't say anything about it, if the race was fixed I guess the logical next step was to eliminate that result which are not valid.

I know FB was the target but they should anyway do this a little better.

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in addition - the funniest part is that FIA got Renault to say Flav was guilty, still without having to give any evidence of this. That way FIA manage to avoid having to make that verdict stick themselves - brilliant.

I don't know what else do you want, PS confessed and Renault said they were guilty of that, no more evidence is necessary, most of the guilty people declared tehmselves innocent so probably you won't get a confession from FB.

What is really brilliant is the way Alonso scaped from this, probably he was given a hidden immunity to betray FB, maybe this will explain why the race result was not touched at all. :eusa_think:

Edited by Schumikonen

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So what about the race result? they don't say anything about it, if the race was fixed I guess the logical next step was to eliminate that result which are not valid.

I know FB was the target but they should anyway do this a little better.

thatd probably change championship result (not lewis felipe thing, but others), and it's also not fair to those drivers since they don't have anything to do with the Sh#t. had this been found out then they wouldve canceled race, probably. now makes no sense at all. surprises me though, that they didnt cut off renaults wcc points.

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The 'judgement' is the corrupt whitewash I feared. Even I hope when Max's gone things will be more principled.

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So what about the race result? they don't say anything about it, if the race was fixed I guess the logical next step was to eliminate that result which are not valid.

I know FB was the target but they should anyway do this a little better.

nah - if you start getting into 'ifs' then the whole championship needs abandoning - just imagin reallocating winnings et al. you would have to declare the whole WDC and WCC void. not possible.

I don't know what else do you want, PS confessed and Renault said they were guilty of that, no more evidence is necessary, most of the guilty people declared tehmselves innocent so probably you won't get a confession from FB.

What is really brilliant is the way Alonso scaped from this, probably he was given a hidden immunity to betray FB, maybe this will explain why the race result was not touched at all. :eusa_think:

Did he? - I never heard that - curious.

If I were them I would have done Max's dirty work for him too - really what else could they have said? Think about it - They were up efluent ally without the proverbial flapping stick.

What more do I want? Okay - that's simple - some actual proof - I didn't think that was asking for much, but obviously it is. If Renault did an internal investigation and FIA did too and they both found him guilty of planning this why can't they give us any witness from within Renault - even just some bloke who thought Flav's actions were suspicious - anything, any evidence at all other than "Jnr says he planned it". Jnr is not what I would call a "reliable" witness. He has good motive to lie and from past experience is obviously quite adept at it.

I repeat for the umpteenth time - I do think Flav did it, but what they're basing their case on is paper thin and it doesn't stand up to any kind of objective scrutiny.

thatd probably change championship result (not lewis felipe thing, but others), and it's also not fair to those drivers since they don't have anything to do with the Sh#t. had this been found out then they wouldve canceled race, probably. now makes no sense at all. surprises me though, that they didnt cut off renaults wcc points.

indeedaroo

The 'judgement' is the corrupt whitewash I feared. Even I hope when Max's gone things will be more principled.

indeedalicious

Who is actually happy with this verdict - anyone?

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I am really disappointed..

1.Reno was not fined the way Mclaren was fined, which clearly shows the amount of partiality and hatred they had towards Ron.

2. Piquet was not banned.

3. So the guy who benifited from this scandal is innocent...despite his knowledge about the wierd pit strategy, and someone who self proclaimed he knows the abc about a car's set up and knows what to do and when to do, someone who back in 2007 told things like as if he was bigger than the team itself..If all those race fixing thing was true, then Monobrow is as guilty as anyother person who is involved.

4.The funniest thing is that, there is still no solid evidence. From the transcripts or from the statements flying around, there is no single evidence that the race was fixed...it seems that someone complained something and they all accepted it under a gun point.

Playing with FIA is simply like playing with a poisonous snake. Many car manufacturer's reputation is at stake if they mess with them....Such as Euro Ncap..There must have been something that went behind the scence...FIA just got their revenge by taking Flavio out with the help of Piquet. Now with Flavio gone, things must be much more smooth with the FIA, and Reno cars would not find it hard to get some good star ratings in the crash tests..Somethings like this already happened in the past with BMW, back when they opposed the change of V10 to V8, their new 5series' Ncap ratings were at stake...

What a waste of time....a bunch of ****ed up Drama queens.....

Next target would be Ferrari and Luca..

Edited by abbas_gear

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I will await for the full version. This version sounds like all they wanted to do was punishing Briatore so they made up all this. Funny thing is that according to what we have so far (and no "shocking new revelations" came thorugh so far), they let Piquet (the only guy which is actualy guilty beyond reasonable doubt) get away with it. PS, who was either an accomplice by omision or the mastermind if they decide to believe everything Piquet said, gets a punishment of medium severity. And Flavio, whose connection was marginal by Piquet's own words, gets a lifetime ban. The proof of culpability? Because he denies it. So I guess that they would let him get away with this if he confessed? And Renault's ban suspended "unless they make a breach of comparable severity"? That is the same as letting them get away with no punishment whatsoever (except for the obvious expenses and blah...pocket money). Hey! I killed a man! Ok, you get a suspended jail sentence unless you kill somebody else in the next 2 years...

It makes no sense. I hope the full version will give us a clearer picture.

Yes, it still smells more like a personal vendetta than a serious investigation.

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It makes no sense. I hope the full version will give us a clearer picture.

Yes, it still smells more like a personal vendetta than a serious investigation.

Thats the picture my friend....they forced Favio out....After Ron went away it was Flavio, Luca and Mario who made the most noise, Martin and Haug were just telling everyone to cool down. Now out of four menace, three are out, one left to go. It wont be that long before Luca too comes under fire. I belive so..Just my opinion..

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Personally i dont want renault out. its a lot of people's jobs and brings investment to the sport. a fine wouldve been welcome, but it did kinda happen, where it says 'renault agreed on contributing to a fund of safety in sport'. thats an informal fine.

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Well, Piquet clearly had no choice whether to crash into the wall or not or he coulda lost his seat, so I see no reason why he should be punished.

I'm getting a bad feeling that this is neverthless enough for Renault to pull away from the sport...

While a completely different case compared to SpyGate, some kind of $$ fine was expected or at least removing Renault drivers away from 2008 Singapore results...

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Personally i dont want renault out. its a lot of people's jobs and brings investment to the sport. a fine wouldve been welcome, but it did kinda happen, where it says 'renault agreed on contributing to a fund of safety in sport'. thats an informal fine.

Neither do I, but if FIA call this "a breach of unparalelled severity in the sport" either you act as if it is or you don't say it is so. As it comes out, they fail to deliver a fitting punishment for the crime. In fact, they failed to deliver any punishment at all besides what they would have gotten for a minor breach, except for the higher costs involved.

If I choose to believe that according to all this it is obvious that everybody but Piquet was innocent, there is nothing so far to contradict me.

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Renault (the parent company, as opposed to Renault F1) committed to making a significant contribution to FIA safety-related projects.

i like this piece ^^

In the middle ages Catholic church held patent for that. It was called "Indulgencies". :)

At the time it was significant source of church income.

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4.The funniest thing is that, there is still no solid evidence. From the transcripts or from the statements flying around, there is no single evidence that the race was fixed...it seems that someone complained something and they all accepted it under a gun point.

Playing with FIA is simply like playing with a poisonous snake. Many car manufacturer's reputation is at stake if they mess with them....Such as Euro Ncap..There must have been something that went behind the scence...FIA just got their revenge by taking Flavio out with the help of Piquet. Now with Flavio gone, things must be much more smooth with the FIA, and Reno cars would not find it hard to get some good star ratings in the crash tests.

Take note - people are starting to realise what I've been writing for the last umpteen posts. Although I do think there's proof enough that the race was fixed (Jnr says he crahsed deliberately, telemetry shows he crashed deliberately) - that incontrovertable evidence was what made renault roll over on Flav and blame him - They basically realised they were buggered and asked Max what he wanted them to do. He said - blame Flav and we'll go easy, cos we won't have to do so directly ourselves, we just get to punish him for a verdict handed down by his own team. We won't get questioned about evidence because it'll be your 'internal investigation' that proves his guilt. Easy peezy lemon squeezy. How long have I been saying this.

I will await for the full version. This version sounds like all they wanted to do was punishing Briatore so they made up all this. Funny thing is that according to what we have so far (and no "shocking new revelations" came thorugh so far), they let Piquet (the only guy which is actualy guilty beyond reasonable doubt) get away with it. PS, who was either an accomplice by omision or the mastermind if they decide to believe everything Piquet said, gets a punishment of medium severity. And Flavio, whose connection was marginal by Piquet's own words, gets a lifetime ban. The proof of culpability? Because he denies it. So I guess that they would let him get away with this if he confessed? And Renault's ban suspended "unless they make a breach of comparable severity"? That is the same as letting them get away with no punishment whatsoever (except for the obvious expenses and blah...pocket money). Hey! I killed a man! Ok, you get a suspended jail sentence unless you kill somebody else in the next 2 years...

It makes no sense. I hope the full version will give us a clearer picture.

Yes, it still smells more like a personal vendetta than a serious investigation.

One of us must try harder, I'm agreeing with you again.

Well, Piquet clearly had no choice whether to crash into the wall or not or he coulda lost his seat, so I see no reason why he should be punished.

nonsense - if I tell you to kill someone would you?

I'm getting a bad feeling that this is neverthless enough for Renault to pull away from the sport...

nonsense - they have to stick around for at least 1 more season now - FIA has them by the short and curlies and they need to work on brand image something rotten.

While a completely different case compared to SpyGate, some kind of $ fine was expected or at least removing Renault drivers away from 2008 Singapore results...

nonsense - I knew they would hand down a tiny punishment to Renault - they did exactly what Max asked of them.

Actually the second bit wasn't really nonsense - could happen - I just thought it looked good to say ;)

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Thats the picture my friend....they forced Favio out....After Ron went away it was Flavio, Luca and Mario who made the most noise, Martin and Haug were just telling everyone to cool down. Now out of four menace, three are out, one left to go. It wont be that long before Luca too comes under fire. I belive so..Just my opinion..

Nay, LCdM is too big for Mosley and maFIA. They already tried this summer and it did not work. This summer it was proven beyond reasonable doubt that there is no F1 without Ferrari, so LCdM is safe while he is Ferrari chairman.

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Neither do I, but if FIA call this "a breach of unparalelled severity in the sport" either you act as if it is or you don't say it is so. As it comes out, they fail to deliver a fitting punishment for the crime. In fact, they failed to deliver any punishment at all besides what they would have gotten for a minor breach, except for the higher costs involved.

If I choose to believe that according to all this it is obvious that everybody but Piquet was innocent, there is nothing so far to contradict me.

I have to say, I'm not too surprised by the outcome. I expected a suspended ban, which was what McLaren got at the first hearing and a fine. As Kati points out, they have got the fine, in a roundabout way, and it's probably a more beneficial way of doing it, I think. At least this way it should go towards safety in some way.

I think the punishment probably does fit the crime, at least the crime that the FIA can prove. There's no doubt the removal of Briatore and Symonds has helped alleviate some of the punishment. However, I am taking the leniency of the punishment (in light of the "a breach of unparalelled severity in the sport" comment) to mean that there is actually not much in the way of reliable evidence to prove there was a deliberate crash. I am sticking with my theory that Symonds was the key to unlocking the evidence :lol:

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