Kati

Renault Under Investigation?

600 posts in this topic

Now that's a proper conspiracy theory! I like it!

:D I've yet to work in the grassy knoll and strange men living in caves in far flung countries, but give me time..... :D

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And the worst thing now, is that Massa (brazilian too) suddenly remembered he thought Piquet crashed in purpose at the time... mhhh maybe he will say that Flavio (and Alonso) in an awsome race strategy told Ferrari mechanics to let the Gas hose connected to the ferrari... that spring hit opened his mind.

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What an absolutely fun thread! I can't believe I missed it!

This story is hilarious. :lol: Looking forward to seeing it develop.

At this stage it's most likely speculation but there is a fascinating chance it's real. For now we can only rely on Alonso's track record of cheating, lying and manipulation to guide us. There's something fishy about any team he goes to, and he doesn't even eat paella...

Hey you stole my words :(

The only thing is would Renault actually be stupid (stupid, not smart) enough to try something like that? I mean, we know Alonso would, with his track record he should already have a long ban from the sport.

So what next, Alonso rats on Renault like he did on Mclaren?

Or is this another Piquet rant - I mean if I was running the prosecution, he would be the one person I would not use as a credible witness. He's a megalomaniac like his dad, he imagines the world spins around him.

And Alonso is allegedly headed for Ferrari. I've found that I rather like Stefano Domenicali (and by extension the Ferrari he's trying to create) and I hope he shies away from Fernando. Let Badoer be his last driver-related mistake.

As to Arrogance Jr., there may be a good reason for his anger at being dropped aside from sour grapes....

honestly nothing else surprises me in formula one. if nelson really did this under orders, well, he did expect some more than half a season more at renault. seems pretty much like a 'vow of trust', i do this and get ur confidence and trust. but i don't think briatore thinks it's so beautifully special.

Yup. In the words of Bernie, this 'angry young man' might have a right to his anger if he did bin it and then got booted as a reward for it. Now having a right to the anger is no excuse for having a lack of character. Any true racing driver who was asked to bin his own car would have told the team to go sit on Flavio's cigarette case.

also, piquet had all an experience in crashing. he crashed for months, who would suspect anything? lol

:clap3:

After having seen so many weird thing in F1 during all these years, I wouldn't rule out foul play from Renault, no matter how preposterous the thing might sound (after all, Macca and Ferrari taught us many times how stupid and unscrupulous F1 teams can be :P)

That being said, until more facts or evidence gets disclosed I find the story ludicrous, to say the least.

It was even more sad to read the comments. Funny, nobody recalls LH crashing against his main contender for the title at the moment at Montreal. Team

orders? (I am being ironic, in case you haven't noticed) :P

Ah, good Frank Zappa, you were never fully understood by us mere mortals.

Hm. I seem to remember Renault having their fair share of unscrupulous moments. Anyone remember a hidden traction control function on a race computer back when they were Benetton? What about McLaren information found on a Renault computer a bit more recently? Tread softly when history is rearing it's ugly head....

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And the worst thing now, is that Massa (brazilian too) suddenly remembered he thought Piquet crashed in purpose at the time... mhhh maybe he will say that Flavio (and Alonso) in an awsome race strategy told Ferrari mechanics to let the Gas hose connected to the ferrari... that spring hit opened his mind.

:lol:, no wonder he needed few stitches.

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Well...there will be a WSMC hearing and Renault issued a statement refusing to make any comments before it. For a ludicrous charge everybody is taking it very seriously.

I am starting to wonder...

My happy world is shaken :(

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Andres you seriously believe Renault, headed by Flabby-ho aren't at least as evil as any other team in F1?

Hmm come to think of it, which big team has a clean history in F1?

BMW-Sauber I guess. And they're leaving :lol:

Mclaren - No

Ferrari - No

Renault/Benetton - No

BAR-Honda-Brawn - No

Toyota - No (Ferrari spying scandal)

And no not Williams, before anyone says anything.

RBR-STR-FI are too new.

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Well...there will be a WSMC hearing and Renault issued a statement refusing to make any comments before it. For a ludicrous charge everybody is taking it very seriously.

I am starting to wonder...

My happy world is shaken :(

:clap3:fantastic....fantastic...I really want to see them punished more than ever....mainly cos they escaped spying charges two years back....weather true or not I hope they get punished...mainly to see some of you guys cry.....remember the fus you all made for Mclaren controversy?:lol:

If it is true that Reno really did it, its a shame that Nando had to win a race like that, :lol:

Funny that it is Reno who may be getting punished, not Nando..:lol:

And he is off the Ferrari...:P

May be Ferrari saw the Schumi in him..:D

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Andres you seriously believe Renault, headed by Flabby-ho aren't at least as evil as any other team in F1?

Hmm come to think of it, which big team has a clean history in F1?

BMW-Sauber I guess. And they're leaving :lol:

Mclaren - No

Ferrari - No

Renault/Benetton - No

BAR-Honda-Brawn - No

Toyota - No (Ferrari spying scandal)

And no not Williams, before anyone says anything.

RBR-STR-FI are too new.

Never dared to say that Renault is cleaner than the other teams. And not even my deep love for Renault made me deny that Flavio is as honest as the whole Cossa Nostra put together.

That being said, it is true that they were found guilty a very few times and even those times were minor infractions (besides the aforementioned traction control gate back in Benetton's days). If this one is true, though, would be a cosmic fckup (both in blatant cheating as well as in stupidity) that would even surpass that of the spygate *shudder*

Oh well...if this is true, would you accept my membership application to become a Force India fan? After all...Renault with Alonso or Force India with Liuzzi...what's the difference? :unsure:

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Never dared to say that Renault is cleaner than the other teams. And not even my deep love for Renault made me deny that Flavio is as honest as the whole Cossa Nostra put together.

That being said, it is true that they were found guilty a very few times and even those times were minor infractions (besides the aforementioned traction control gate back in Benetton's days). If this one is true, though, would be a cosmic fckup (both in blatant cheating as well as in stupidity) that would even surpass that of the spygate *shudder*

Oh well...if this is true, would you accept my membership application to become a Force India fan? After all...Renault with Alonso or Force India with Liuzzi...what's the difference? :unsure:

Should make atleast 10 visits to India and serve six months in the Indian army posted near Pakistan border before being accepted as a Force India fan.

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Never dared to say that Renault is cleaner than the other teams. And not even my deep love for Renault made me deny that Flavio is as honest as the whole Cossa Nostra put together.

That being said, it is true that they were found guilty a very few times and even those times were minor infractions (besides the aforementioned traction control gate back in Benetton's days). If this one is true, though, would be a cosmic fckup (both in blatant cheating as well as in stupidity) that would even surpass that of the spygate *shudder*

Oh well...if this is true, would you accept my membership application to become a Force India fan? After all...Renault with Alonso or Force India with Liuzzi...what's the difference? :unsure:

The 'infractions' were the same as other teams have done, but Renault's punishment was minor. Don't confuse the two. That being said, take heart that the Renault F1 team isn't being run by the heads of Renault. You can safely love the car company and despise the F1 team's management.

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Race-day meeting key to Renault case

By Jonathan Noble and Michele Lostia Wednesday, September 9th 2009, 16:20 GMT

A meeting between Nelson Piquet, Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds hours before last year's Singapore Grand Prix is central to the race fixing allegations surrounding the Renault team, AUTOSPORT has learned.

With the FIA's World Motor Sport Council due to meet on September 21 for Renault to answer charges that the team caused a deliberate crash in Singapore last year to help Fernando Alonso win, sources have confirmed for the first time background details of the case.

AUTOSPORT understands that key to what happened in the race is the discussion that took place in one of Renault's offices at the Singapore track on the Sunday, where race tactics were discussed between Piquet, team principal Briatore and director of engineering Symonds.

Sources claim that in evidence submitted to the FIA by Nelson Piquet, the Brazilian driver says he was asked by Briatore and Symonds to crash deliberately early in the race so as to help Alonso win.

Piquet says that he agreed to do so because he felt uncomfortable about his situation at the team, with Renault having not renewed his contract for 2009 at that time - and Briatore was stalling on making a firm commitment. Piquet suggests that he only went ahead and caused the accident because he felt he would be rewarded for his actions.

In his evidence, Piquet claims that he was taken aside by Symonds after the first meeting and instructured that he should crash on lap 13 or 14, shortly after Alonso's scheduled first stop, at Turn 17.

The reason this part of the track was singled out was because there were no cranes present there to lift the car away, so any accident would virtually guarantee a safety car.

Piquet's claims have, however, been denied by both Briatore and Symonds in documents that are believed to have been submitted with the FIA. Although they confirm that the meeting between the three of them took place, both suggest that it was Piquet's own suggestion to cause an accident.

Sources claim that the Singapore race-fix matter came to light on July 26 - the day of Piquet's last race for Renault in Hungary - when his father Nelson contacted FIA president Max Mosley to make him aware of what had happened.

Piquet Jr. then visited the FIA's headquarters in Paris on July 30 to present a statement to FIA representatives, believed to be stewards' advisor Alan Donnelly, and external investigators from the Quest agency.

Following Piquet's testimony, the three stewards from the Singapore Grand Prix, plus two external investigators from Quest, were flown to the Belgian Grand Prix to conduct interviews with Renault representatives.

A report in Italian magazine Autosprint also suggests that telemetry data from Piquet's car has emerged as another reason why the matter has gone to the WMSC.

At Turn 17 where Piquet crashed, normally the rear wheels of the Renault would lose grip on the exit - requiring the driver to ease off the throttle briefly. However, on the lap he crashed, Piquet kept accelerating even though the rear wheels had lost grip.

Briatore is reported to have claimed that he was: "a victim of extortion by the Piquet family.

"I confirm the meeting with Piquet on Sunday morning, but nothing like that was ever talked about. I also remember that Piquet at Singapore was in a very fragile state of mind. Besides that, there are the audio recordings where I express disappointment when I see on the screens that Piquet had crashed."

Symonds is also reported as saying: "It's true, during the Sunday meeting with Piquet the issue of deliberately causing a SC deployment came up, but it was proposed by Piquet himself. It was just a conversation."

Renault has said it will not comment on the matter officially before the WMSC hearing later this month.

hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha this is so brilliant. 'he said he wanted to crash, i didnt say I agreed!'

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The article is quite interesting, because Briatore says: "I confirm the meeting with Piquet on Sunday morning, but nothing like that was ever talked about". Whereas Symonds says: "It's true, during the Sunday meeting with Piquet the issue of deliberately causing a SC deployment came up, but it was proposed by Piquet himself. It was just a conversation".

Bit of a discrepancy there, but I guess neither was giving a full explanation. Anyway, they better get their stories straight for the hearing.

Edited by El Maestro

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Yeah it's a fun article. It's fascinating that they admit this was even discussed at all. Some of their comments seem ridiculous: Briatore's best defence is that he looked disappointed when Piquet crashed and Symmonds seems to think discussing race-fixing is perfectly normal 'conversation'. Briatore doesn't normally care too much what happens to Piquet, especially when he must have been praying for a safety car at that very moment... and what are the odds that they had this discussion and then Piquet just happens to crash at the exact point they admit they were 'just' chatting about a few hours earlier?

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Yeah it's a fun article. It's fascinating that they admit this was even discussed at all. Some of their comments seem ridiculous: Briatore's best defence is that he looked disappointed when Piquet crashed and Symmonds seems to think discussing race-fixing is perfectly normal 'conversation'. Briatore doesn't normally care too much what happens to Piquet, especially when he must have been praying for a safety car at that very moment... and what are the odds that they had this discussion and then Piquet just happens to crash at the exact point they admit they were 'just' chatting about a few hours earlier?

Indeed, it's looking a bit of a flaky defence for Renault isn't it? Still though, I would've thought the WMSC would need an even stronger case than that before they can brand Renault cheaters. Will be fun to see the gory details all come out.

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If there is true in this script, there is only one way out for Renault. THey have to fire Briatore, Alonso, Symonds immediatelly and start legal action against them (+ Piquet) for damaging the Renault brand. That course of action might persuade FIA not to exclude Renault from F1 but to direct their fire towards people who engineered it. Renault (mothership) is likely to wait for hearing before making any action.

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Yeah it's a fun article. It's fascinating that they admit this was even discussed at all. Some of their comments seem ridiculous: Briatore's best defence is that he looked disappointed when Piquet crashed and Symmonds seems to think discussing race-fixing is perfectly normal 'conversation'.

Indeed... Renault's defence is wafer-thin. The correct way to handle if a driver talked of crashing and then did it under his own steam would be to suspend/sack him as this would be gross misconduct. To do nothing is admission of guilt by management. i.e. they allegedly knew he was going to do it, allegedly told him not to and when he still does it, punitive action should have been taken. By doing nothing, they are equally implicated regardless of whether it was his idea or not.

Idiots.

And just goes to prove what I already know that they are all a bunch of cheating b******s :)

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You know, this whole silly situation got me thinking...

We have:

1) McLaren potentially out of the Mercedes relationship, really needing a new engine and no longer a works team

2) BMW up for grabs with an engine supply (albeit not the best)

3) Renault, who in the light of this scandal may elect to exit stage left, another potential team up for sale - Flabbio shamed out of the picture with a half-decent engine and customers

New entrants looking to get a head start (e.g. Prodrive and all the others)

Where could this all end up....?

McLaren, needing an engine and having the infrastructure to deal with customers could potentially bid for Renault's engine supply part - giving them a guaranteed, half decent engine supply, plus customer contracts which could offset the costs.

Renault chassis/facilities could be sold to one of the new entrants with a deal with McLaren for engine supply - they probably would not want to/could not afford to buy the engine manufacture anyway. Gives a new team a reasonable chassis to work with.

BMW ??? er dunno

OK so its all speculation, but could work out that way.....

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If there is true in this script, there is only one way out for Renault. THey have to fire Briatore, Alonso, Symonds immediatelly and start legal action against them (+ Piquet) for damaging the Renault brand. That course of action might persuade FIA not to exclude Renault from F1 but to direct their fire towards people who engineered it. Renault (mothership) is likely to wait for hearing before making any action.

Do you think Alonso knew a word about that? I don't think so, he would not even suspect anything as Piquet is able to crass anywhere, any time. rolleyes.gif

I haven't seen anything connecting Alonso with that incident but you probably have some information nobody knows, maybe you were there at the meeting. eusa_think.gif

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:unsure: ermm....I won't make any further comments on this issue. Please, if you have any questions, contact my lawyer. :unsure:

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Things usually seem clearer in the morning. Surely we now know there was foul play in Singapore? Despite all the poo-pooing of the conspiracy theories, the admission by Renault that they did discuss race-fixing that morning makes it hard to imagine the crash was purely coincidental. The crash happened at the perfect time, and at a pretty good place with no crane, to make the alleged plan work. As George and Chris say, the question that remains is whether Piquet acted alone, and if not how can we prove it?

He might well have acted alone. Perhaps to keep his job, he wanted a barrel over which to bend Flabia, if you'll pardon the pun-any. Still, as Chris points out, Briatore & Symmonds would have known he did it deliberately and yet they covered it up, presumably so as not to upset some sponsors Piquet was bringing to the team. Still a serious offence, especially considering the huge benefit Alonso and the team reaped by dint of the cheating.

Based on the evidence we have so far, it's hard to figure out whether Renault wanted him to do this or not. Hopefully all the interviews Quest and the FIA have been conducting will show up some inconsistencies in one side's testimony. There were reports that the investigation extends beyond this one incident and the other issues may well shine more light on who was masterminding all this.

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