Kati

Renault Under Investigation?

600 posts in this topic


Yes, it was dishonest and he knew it. But he has to take a woman's bra if it's a Victoria's "Secrets" as it helps him win races. He can't help it! drool.gif

And it was Dennis' wife at that time, you know? hungary.gif

Now you understand why he had such a bad time in McLaren. frusty.gif

No, it was Victoria's Secrets. I swear! yes.gif

NOOOOOOOO! nono1.gif

Firstable the email was between PDLR and Alonso and not the other way round.

Thirdable it had nothing to do with Ferrari but with Victoria's Secrets!

Secondable it was not for tires, it was for a new padded bra design.

He is no saint? And why I pray to Him every night, eh? unsure.gif

I will give you your more tahn earned answer as soon as I find out how to respond the way you do sectioning the answers in just one post :eusa_think:

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Proves, Nando needs a weaker team mate or needs him to crash out in order to win a race....or needs his opponent's engines to blow up to win the world championship...:P

And he is wanted by none other than Ferrari! :P

Don't believe that rumor about Alonso going to Ferrari, they can not do this to me.

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Indeed Tommy. It will be Alonso's finest hour if he can prove there was cheating in his team and he remained out of the fray. If only he had the emails to prove such a thing...

My investigators at Quest have uncovered multiple irregularities in your Spanish. Note, if you will, that you are clearly making up words like 'nunca' and 'de' because they don't even end in an 'o'. Even Pabloh ends in an 'o' (when he bends over).

Btw I hate all those 'o' words in Spanish. I can't get that damn final 'o' sound right. Everything comes out like a posh person saying 'windowwwwww' in English.

Yes and Italian too. Molto clever.

He is already paving the way to try to get out of this without a scratch but even if he can make it that won't be the final prove that he wasn't involve in that, just at how nice he was talking about FB and NP he is just trying to step aside and let them fight each other, he is very clever but I know him very well.

And about the O's ending words how about this two: FernandO AlonsO

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For the record - currently there is nothing to show complicity on Alonso's part. Something could come up later, but for now, Alonso seems in the clear.

More importantly - all talk of Alonso aside...

12. I intentionally caused the crash by letting go of control of thecar just before the relevant corner. In order to make sure I wouldcause the incident during the correct lap, I asked my team severaltimes via the radio to confirm the lap number, which I would notnormally do. I was not injured during the accident, nor was anyone else.

...

14. After the race I informed Mr. Felipe Vargas, a family friend andadvisor, of the fact that the incident had been deliberate. Mr. Vargasfurther infirmed my father, Mr. Nelson Piquet, some time later.

...

16. In my own team, the engineer of my car questioned the nature of theincident because he found it unusual, and I replied that I had lostcontrol of the car. I believe that a clever engineer would notice fromthe car

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<br />Andres you seriously believe Renault, headed by Flabby-ho aren't at least as evil as any other team in F1?<br /><br />Hmm come to think of it, which big team has a clean history in F1?<br /><br />BMW-Sauber I guess. And they're leaving <img src='http://www.totalf1.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /><br /><br />Mclaren - No<br />Ferrari - No<br />Renault/Benetton - No<br />BAR-Honda-Brawn - No<br />Toyota - No (Ferrari spying scandal)<br />And no not Williams, before anyone says anything.<br /><br />RBR-STR-FI are too new.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

You are forgetting all that sabotage of Kubica's car by the German mechanics in 2006 and 2007...

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12 - Check the radio transcripts (easy)

16 - Will the engineer back this and does the telemetry show that he accelerated?

I believe that Flav and Symmonds are going with the 'He thought of it himself' defense BECAUSE they know that 12 and 16 match what Jr says. They can't flatly deny that he crashed deliberately now.

I suspect they are guilty of much more, since Jr thinking of and then executing this plan alone is a far FAR less believable.

They'll have to check a few more of his crashes just in case he accelerated as well. laugh.gif

Now seriously, the bold part could be the last nail in the coffin.

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here are my thoughts, many of which were partially explained by Paul, George, Ringo Graham and Adam.

1) I don't think Piquet did this alone. I barely give him enough credit to put his own helmet facing the right way.

2) From Nelsinho's own statements, Flavio could easily say that the comments about him crashing were obviously meant as a joke, and Piquet just took them seriously and decided to crash without informing the team. Of course, that won't explain Symond's talk after the meeting, but as Piquet himself declared "Pat took me to a quiet corner and..." which probably means that what was said there had no witnesses except the two of them. What if Pat denies everything? The "exact part and moment" are not too hard to figure out, even for Piquet, provided Pat "casullay" told him Nando's strategy sometime before the race or even if his own race engineer told him when Nando would stop, something I am pretty sure he was told during the race.

In any case, I can't imagine Piquet being bright enough to make it on his own, but his problem is that certainly COULD have done it on his own. That is something that can affect the WSMC hearing's outcome.

3) Like I said, you do not need too much careful planning or many persons involved for the plan (at least in Nelsinho's version) to work. I don't see why should they tell Alonso anything about this. All he had to do is drive for it to work, and they didn't have to tell him anything for that to happen.

4) The plan is so dumb that I don't it was something carefully planned or thought through. Looks more like a reaction to Nando's ominous words the day before "We will need a miracle here". My guess is that either Nando threatened to quit over a performance clause, or they were under the impression he might do that. I also have the impression from NP's dtatement that they never "ordered" him to do it. He states very clearly that he was very insecure and fragile and blah blah blah. I think they told it half jokingly, half serious and pushed forward when they saw he was actually willing to do such thing. His explanations are rather vague in that sense, so maybe I am only letting my own subjectivity cloud my judgement here.

5) As for the actual responsibles, I think that Piquet is not lying about Pat. Still not enough to condemn Flavio, but my guess is that if Pat did it, then Flavio knew it. In any case, I think it will be hard to prove much about them, while NP confession, and the telemetry is 100% guranteed to prove his own responsibility. As this is no court of law, probably Pat will gget heavily punished, too. Flav will depend a lot on a struggle between Max's hatred towards Flavio and Bernie's defense of his buddy and business partner. Renault will certainly have their corporate image tainted and leave F1. Alonso can easily get scot free from all this, unless more things come out to the light. The only thing he is 100% guilty as of now (and same goes for Pat and Flavio and the whole Renault team) is for covering up because there is no way none of them realized what happened aftewards.

6) Funny thing: it is a lose lose situation for Nando with regards of the cover up. Had he blowed the whistle, everybody would have said "see? just like at McLaren! Weasel!". Now he chose not to do it...and the same people is saying "he is a cheater he didn't tell the FIA what he knew!!!" :P

7) Anyways, Renault broke my heart. No matter which option is the real one, they are at least guilty of covering such a gross manoeuvre and with all probability, actually planning it.

With Nando moving to Maranello and Renault leaving the sport in such a humiliating way, I think I will start watching classical ballet :(

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here are my thoughts, many of which were partially explained by Paul, George, Ringo Graham and Adam.

1) I don't think Piquet did this alone. I barely give him enough credit to put his own helmet facing the right way.

That would explain some of his driving......... :eusa_think:

2) From Nelsinho's own statements, Flavio could easily say that the comments about him crashing were obviously meant as a joke, and Piquet just took them seriously and decided to crash without informing the team. Of course, that won't explain Symond's talk after the meeting, but as Piquet himself declared "Pat took me to a quiet corner and..." which probably means that what was said there had no witnesses except the two of them. What if Pat denies everything? The "exact part and moment" are not too hard to figure out, even for Piquet, provided Pat "casullay" told him Nando's strategy sometime before the race or even if his own race engineer told him when Nando would stop, something I am pretty sure he was told during the race.

In any case, I can't imagine Piquet being bright enough to make it on his own, but his problem is that certainly COULD have done it on his own. That is something that can affect the WSMC hearing's outcome.

You maybe right, but I am not sure from a logisitical point of view that he could have done it on his own. He crashed on turn 17, i think it was, and looking at the track, the pit straight is after turn 23. Surely, there would have had to been some communication from the pit that the timing was right, because he wouldn't know himself how far behind he was and if it was going to work, surely??

3) Like I said, you do not need too much careful planning or many persons involved for the plan (at least in Nelsinho's version) to work. I don't see why should they tell Alonso anything about this. All he had to do is drive for it to work, and they didn't have to tell him anything for that to happen.

I completely agree about Alonso not needing to know. If you do something like this (it's still a big if for me at the moment) then you involve the least number of people you can. However, I do think it would need careful planning even for Jrs version, as I mention above.

4) The plan is so dumb that I don't it was something carefully planned or thought through. Looks more like a reaction to Nando's ominous words the day before "We will need a miracle here". My guess is that either Nando threatened to quit over a performance clause, or they were under the impression he might do that. I also have the impression from NP's dtatement that they never "ordered" him to do it. He states very clearly that he was very insecure and fragile and blah blah blah. I think they told it half jokingly, half serious and pushed forward when they saw he was actually willing to do such thing. His explanations are rather vague in that sense, so maybe I am only letting my own subjectivity cloud my judgement here.

I have to disagree here, Sir. I can't imagine Nando threatened them regarding performance, but even if he did, surely he would know in his own mind that the car was no better and he won due to fortunate timing with the safety car. So that doesn't seem likely to me.

5) As for the actual responsibles, I think that Piquet is not lying about Pat. Still not enough to condemn Flavio, but my guess is that if Pat did it, then Flavio knew it. In any case, I think it will be hard to prove much about them, while NP confession, and the telemetry is 100% guranteed to prove his own responsibility. As this is no court of law, probably Pat will gget heavily punished, too. Flav will depend a lot on a struggle between Max's hatred towards Flavio and Bernie's defense of his buddy and business partner. Renault will certainly have their corporate image tainted and leave F1. Alonso can easily get scot free from all this, unless more things come out to the light. The only thing he is 100% guilty as of now (and same goes for Pat and Flavio and the whole Renault team) is for covering up because there is no way none of them realized what happened aftewards.

Curious you think Jr is not lying about Pat.

The telemetry will be interesting, but I have a feeling it may not be conclusive. You would have to compare every crash Piquet has had and let's face facts, that's a lot of bollocking data!! I imagine that how a driver reacts to a situation would vary depending on the circumstances. However, it may be that there's always a pattern that emerges, when a particular driver loses control, in which case it will be easy to tell if he crashed on purpose or not.

At the moment, I still think this is a convenient consequence for Jr to exploit. In fact I doubt it's even Jr that is trying to exploit the situation, it sounds more like Sr to me. Obviously, that view may change in the future :whistling: At the moment, though, I am not convinced by these allegations at all.

6) Funny thing: it is a lose lose situation for Nando with regards of the cover up. Had he blowed the whistle, everybody would have said "see? just like at McLaren! Weasel!". Now he chose not to do it...and the same people is saying "he is a cheater he didn't tell the FIA what he knew!!!" :P

Nah, I don't think Alonso had anything to do with it, on the evidence aso far anyway. I can't imagine why he'd need to know about it either before or after the incident. Like I said, you keep it between the least number of people possible.

7) Anyways, Renault broke my heart. No matter which option is the real one, they are at least guilty of covering such a gross manoeuvre and with all probability, actually planning it.

With Nando moving to Maranello and Renault leaving the sport in such a humiliating way, I think I will start watching classical ballet :(

Hold on hard there cully. How do you know that? What happens if it turns out the Piquets are just trying to exploit a convenient turn of events??

Edited by pabloh20

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The plot thickens...

Renault take legal action against Nelson Piquet Jr over race-fixing claims

Rearguard action (no other choice), lies upon lies (adding the blackmail accusation in order to muddy the waters further) or indication that Jr and his dad are real SOBs (timely truth from desperate renault who wished to keep things nice until now)?

Wow!

To be honest - I'll go with options 1,2&3 combined.

Seems likely to me that renault where complicit in the whole thing and then Jr threatened to let it all out unless they let him stay season end. Flavio called his bluff - it wasn't a bluff. The man with nothing to loose blabbed. The rest is history.

Edited by adamstrags

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That would explain some of his driving......... :eusa_think:

Wrong. That would explain ALL of his drivings.

You maybe right, but I am not sure from a logisitical point of view that he could have done it on his own. He crashed on turn 17, i think it was, and looking at the track, the pit straight is after turn 23. Surely, there would have had to been some communication from the pit that the timing was right, because he wouldn't know himself how far behind he was and if it was going to work, surely??

He needed to know some information (Nando's position on the lap, his pitstop, etc.) but I think he could have obtained all that info by means of innocent questions that normally happen during a race (my guess here)

I completely agree about Alonso not needing to know. If you do something like this (it's still a big if for me at the moment) then you involve the least number of people you can. However, I do think it would need careful planning even for Jrs version, as I mention above.

NPs version mentions only Pat as the guy that actually conspired with him. Flavio is said to have only asked if he would be willing to sacrifice himself for the team and NP, in his fragile state of mind understood that they were asking for him to crash. In the most benevolent vision from Piquet's sayings, Flavio just made a "haha only serious" comment. Piquet came out saying he would crash and Pat took the opporunity and filled him with the details. "As always, should you or any of your IM Force be caught or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions"

I have to disagree here, Sir. I can't imagine Nando threatened them regarding performance, but even if he did, surely he would know in his own mind that the car was no better and he won due to fortunate timing with the safety car. So that doesn't seem likely to me.

I can easily imagine Nando threatening to quit over a performance clause! :P The season was dismal so far, and that qualifying session was specially frustrating for him (remember him getting out of the car after the fuel pump problem?). He said "Only a miracle can save us" or something along those lines. That night after the qualifying session must have been gloomy at Renault's offices.

Curious you think Jr is not lying about Pat.

Apparently, Renault is hitting back at him now, but I still think that Piquet is not lying. Maybe he distorted the facts to make them look more involved (and in that case, it is interesting that he didn't mention Nando or involved Flavio more but instead he says that Pat took him to a quiet corner). In the end, Pat and Flavio's behaviour after the crisis started are the best proofs of guilt from their part. I hope I am wrong, but my guess is that they are guilty (at least Pat). In any case, they are all guilty for covering up because there is no way nobody suspected anything at Renault AFTER the race. That goes for Flavio, Pat and Nando as well as their race engineers.

The telemetry will be interesting, but I have a feeling it may not be conclusive. You would have to compare every crash Piquet has had and let's face facts, that's a lot of bollocking data!! I imagine that how a driver reacts to a situation would vary depending on the circumstances. However, it may be that there's always a pattern that emerges, when a particular driver loses control, in which case it will be easy to tell if he crashed on purpose or not.

Telemetry (and most proofs here) will only provide circumstancial evidence. All it can prove is that Piquet deliberately crashed. It won0t prove that he did so under team orders, though. In any case, this won't be a trial but a WSMC hearing and we all know that this is only tangencially connected with actual legal proceedings. In that case, most of it will depend on Mosley's power to apply a penalty, and keeping in mind Mosley's hatred for Flavio he will most likely hit, and hit hard, evidence or not.

At the moment, I still think this is a convenient consequence for Jr to exploit. In fact I doubt it's even Jr that is trying to exploit the situation, it sounds more like Sr to me. Obviously, that view may change in the future :whistling: At the moment, though, I am not convinced by these allegations at all.

I wish I could share your optimism, but something inside me tells me that is not the case. It is true that so far there is no "hard" evidence in any sense...oh, well....

Nah, I don't think Alonso had anything to do with it, on the evidence aso far anyway. I can't imagine why he'd need to know about it either before or after the incident. Like I said, you keep it between the least number of people possible.

I agree with the caveats mentioned before

Hold on hard there cully. How do you know that? What happens if it turns out the Piquets are just trying to exploit a convenient turn of events??

Then they would hopefully go to jail (Renault has just started legal action against them)

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<br /><br /><br />

You are forgetting all that sabotage of Kubica's car by the German mechanics in 2006 and 2007...

earth calls...

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Everyone seems mainly concerned with what happened leading up to the crash.

However it is what did or rather did not happen post-crash which interests me.

No action was taken by Renault. If, as they say Piquet acted alone then why did they not react - suspend/sack him, conduct an internal investigation or refer the matter to FIA? You could say that they did not want to risk losing Alonso's win, but then if they could demonstrate he acted alone, that would not be an issue and I can't imagine FIA punishing the team, only Piquet. Indeed, this could even help Briatore as he did not want to keep Piquet.

And as for the news coming out that Piquet Snr tried to blackmail Renault. Very, very silly and on this one Flav has done the right thing in starting blackmail proceedings.

All in all, goes to prove that they are all a bunch of lying, cheating b******s :D

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Everyone seems mainly concerned with what happened leading up to the crash.

However it is what did or rather did not happen post-crash which interests me.

No action was taken by Renault. If, as they say Piquet acted alone then why did they not react - suspend/sack him, conduct an internal investigation or refer the matter to FIA? You could say that they did not want to risk losing Alonso's win, but then if they could demonstrate he acted alone, that would not be an issue and I can't imagine FIA punishing the team, only Piquet. Indeed, this could even help Briatore as he did not want to keep Piquet.

And as for the news coming out that Piquet Snr tried to blackmail Renault. Very, very silly and on this one Flav has done the right thing in starting blackmail proceedings.

All in all, goes to prove that they are all a bunch of lying, cheating b******s :D

Quite the contrary, if you read my posts and some others you will notice that we acknowledge the fact that whatever the situation is relating to Piquet's proceedings, the team (and Nando!) is at least responsible for covering it up.

So...it's time to pull the final defense: "Bah, I am fed up with all these politics! I want a pure sport. I will start watching professional wrestling!"

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Quite the contrary, if you read my posts and some others you will notice that we acknowledge the fact that whatever the situation is relating to Piquet's proceedings, the team (and Nando!) is at least responsible for covering it up.

So...it's time to pull the final defense: "Bah, I am fed up with all these politics! I want a pure sport. I will start watching professional wrestling!"

:lol:

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me thinks she won't like the idea... ^^

it doesn't matter if she likes the idea or not as long as she says is ok for me to teach you.

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it doesn't matter if she likes the idea or not as long as she says is ok for me to teach you.

hahahaha i think she not liking the idea would imply in her saying no.

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Ok this is going TOO far.

Briatore insinuates Nelsinho had an affair with an older man

http://jbonline.terra.com.br/pextra/2009/09/11/e11093653.asp

ROMA - The polemic involving Renault and driver Nelsinho Piquet is taking even bigger proportions. After the french team went to french court accusing Nelsinho and his father of blackmalining and lying, Flavio Briatore made insinuations about the driver's personal life, after he was fired of Renault in end of july.

According to Briatore, Nleisnho had an affair with an older man and was angry with the boss interfering on it. - He accused me of breaing a relationship between him and a friend but I don't wanna be falsely accused. His father asked me to interfere. He lived with this man and we didn't know what kinda relationship they had. His father was real worried about thier proximity and asked me to take an attitude. - Briatore spoke to radio Jovem Pan.

- I made him move from Oxford, where he lived, to an appartment on the building I live, so he could be under control. - he completed.

After the scandal in the Singaporean GP 2008, when Nelsinho admitted to have caused a crash in benefit of his teammate Fernando Alonso, many insinuations have been made from both sides and the argument may go on in court.

i don't get what this has to do with the whole thing, but it seems Flavio is NOT happy at all. o.O

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Ok this is going TOO far.

i don't get what this has to do with the whole thing, but it seems Flavio is NOT happy at all. o.O

Besides, Paul is not THAT old and...oops.

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With Nando moving to Maranello and Renault leaving the sport in such a humiliating way, I think I will start watching classical ballet sad.gif

I don't think he's moving to Maranello. He could go to Brawn GP if Mercedes invest money there, I still cannot see Schumacher and Alonso together in Ferrari and they have extended his contract 3 years more. You can mark my words. smile.gif

About the incident I have to completely agree with Paul. I imagine Alonso and even more the mechanics and engineers thought there could be something fishy but how you can say something if you are not 100% sure of what you're talking about. Only Briatore, Symonds and Piquet Jr. know the truth. I think Symonds knew they had a good car for that race and they decided to ask for some help as they were under pressure at that point of the season, it wasn't because Alonso threatened them but of course it might have added extra pressure. Probably Renault (Goshn) was very disappointed with the performance and they needed a win for the morale, prestige, money... and that win was a big boost for them in the championship.

Edited by AleHop

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Hahaha....

Flavio showing his true culture.....

:clap3:

This is getting better and better.....

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