Kati

Renault Under Investigation?

600 posts in this topic

:lol: Yes, some desperate Journos, who don't even have a clue about what is happening..

:huh:

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However, why would Piquet Sr say that 'Alonso knew' if that wasn't true at the risk of being sued by Renault?

:lol:

As I was reading down, I was wondering what had made Andres change his tone... and suddenly it all becomes clear! Anyway, I also wonder why Piquet Sr would make that up. It doesn't seem that implausible that Alonso would have planned it out, given his famous involvement in strategy decisions and the (otherwise) ludicrous strategy he was on in Singapore.

:lol:

'Mentirosa' is a classic here in what we call ''orquestillas de fiestas de barrio''.You know,typical fiestas where your aunt has a couple of dozens of wine glasses and your uncle ends up dancing with the priest.

At least it's not your nephew.

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:lol:

As I was reading down, I was wondering what had made Andres change his tone... and suddenly it all becomes clear! Anyway, I also wonder why Piquet Sr would make that up. It doesn't seem that implausible that Alonso would have planned it out, given his famous involvement in strategy decisions and the (otherwise) ludicrous strategy he was on in Singapore.

At least it's not your nephew.

:lol:

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:lol:

As I was reading down, I was wondering what had made Andres change his tone... and suddenly it all becomes clear! Anyway, I also wonder why Piquet Sr would make that up. It doesn't seem that implausible that Alonso would have planned it out, given his famous involvement in strategy decisions and the (otherwise) ludicrous strategy he was on in Singapore.

:huh: :huh:

Changed my tone?

I don't wonder at all why would Piquet Sr say that. It's an obvious case of pure bitterness, just like Flavio's remarks about Nelsinho Pikachu's private life. Piquet the Elder "thinks" or "believes" that Nando knew about it. I "think" or "believe" that right now Cameron Diaz is touching herself thinking about me. He did not bring anything new to the debate. His theory makes no sense and fails to provide evidence so far to make such connection. And that's a lot in a case that does not make much sense since the beggining, anyways.

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I "think" or "believe" that right now Cameron Diaz is touching herself thinking about me.

Wrong, actually, Cameron Diaz is touching me thinking about herself....

....wait that's not right, ah well what the hell :)

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:huh: :huh:

Changed my tone?

I don't wonder at all why would Piquet Sr say that. It's an obvious case of pure bitterness, just like Flavio's remarks about Nelsinho Pikachu's private life. Piquet the Elder "thinks" or "believes" that Nando knew about it. I "think" or "believe" that right now Cameron Diaz is touching herself thinking about me. He did not bring anything new to the debate. His theory makes no sense and fails to provide evidence so far to make such connection. And that's a lot in a case that does not make much sense since the beggining, anyways.

:lol: Yeah I was just kidding really. It did seem to me that the tone of your replies changed a little, especially regarding how convinced you were/are of Renault's guilt. But I wasn't criticising you, just joking. You've been very fair as always, even if I still disagree a little.

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Right, on to some good news 'bout this 'ole mess, lads. I 'ave just read that I'm second in queue be'ind Alain Prost to replace Flavio at Renault! It'll be utter rubbish if I don't get it, me past forays into F1 'ave been quite cracking. I feel quite ready for it, my teeth are bad as ever ('aven't seen a dentist in years! You'd 'ave to travel to Wales to do that and I don't 'ave the time, too busy 'avin' tea and 'ailin' the queen) and I 'ave a new 'at to wear with my new jumper that I like to wear over my vest and those nice trousers I 'ave that go so well with my Batman pants. Oi, where was I, right, I was about to let you blokes in on a bit of a secret, you 'ave all been so great to me, ain't yer? Idn't it about time I done somethin' for you? I plan on usin' an old McLaren chassis (gotta be Bri'ish, yeah? Renault idn't Bri'ish, an' the queen wouldn't like that, an' she really guides me life) with a Mercedes lump, straight from me lorry, that engine. I'd like to 'ire me ol' mate Jacques Villeneuve, 'e's the bees knees, 'e says 'e'll race for three bags o' crisps per race, I'm not so sure, I asked 'im if he'd be okay if I just gave 'im some Marmite and drove 'im to Asda, they're 'avin a baby and toddler event right now you know, just 25 of the queen's own sterling silver pounds for a Red Kite Pebble 'ighchair, can you believe that? 'e said 'e'll get back to me, I 'ave to think it's all going well, and our team will 'ave a smashin' good time! I quite like Jacques, good lad that boy. The other driver will be Bri'ish, we 'ave been talkin' to some guy named George, I told 'im "give me a ring ol' boy!" and 'e never did, what an arse bandit, 'e's turned out to be a real marmite miner an' I dun like that, I thought me an' 'im 'ad something special, but then I go see 'im off snoggin' with Nicole Scherzinger one day, ya think yer a real big bloke, don't yer? We're lookin' at someone else now, I can't tell you 'oo, though (we really idn't lookin' at anybody, we just wan' George, 'e's so good in the wet, a real rainmaster that bloke is, gah, we'll get 'im, we'll 'ire Drymaster, then wot)?!

I say, I 'ave to use the bog real bad after all that, I'm off now.

Dog's bollocks for all,

Dave

Seriously, that's the truth, Alain Prost and Dave Richards are linked to the team now. I think Flavio and Pat are gone, even if miraculously found not guilty.

Edited by lewisthegreat2

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Right, on to some good news 'bout this 'ole mess, lads. I 'ave just read that I'm second in queue be'ind Alain Prost to replace Flavio at Renault! It'll be utter rubbish if I don't get it, me past forays into F1 'ave been quite cracking. I feel quite ready for it, my teeth are bad as ever ('aven't seen a dentist in years! You'd 'ave to travel to Wales to do that and I don't 'ave the time, too busy 'avin' tea and 'ailin' the queen) and I 'ave a new 'at to wear with my new jumper that I like to wear over my vest and those nice trousers I 'ave that go so well with my Batman pants. Oi, where was I, right, I was about to let you blokes in on a bit of a secret, you 'ave all been so great to me, ain't yer? Idn't it about time I done somethin' for you? I plan on usin' an old McLaren chassis (gotta be Bri'ish, yeah? Renault idn't Bri'ish, an' the queen wouldn't like that, an' she really guides me life) with a Mercedes lump, straight from me lorry, that engine. I'd like to 'ire me ol' mate Jacques Villeneuve, 'e's the bees knees, 'e says 'e'll race for three bags o' crisps per race, I'm not so sure, I asked 'im if he'd be okay if I just gave 'im some Marmite and drove 'im to Asda, they're 'avin a baby and toddler event right now you know, just 25 of the queen's own sterling silver pounds for a Red Kite Pebble 'ighchair, can you believe that? 'e said 'e'll get back to me, I 'ave to think it's all going well, and our team will 'ave a smashin' good time! I quite like Jacques, good lad that boy. The other driver will be Bri'ish, we 'ave been talkin' to some guy named George, I told 'im "give me a ring ol' boy!" and 'e never did, what an arse bandit, 'e's turned out to be a real marmite miner an' I dun like that, I thought me an' 'im 'ad something special, but then I go see 'im off snoggin' with Nicole Scherzinger one day, ya think yer a real big bloke, don't yer? We're lookin' at someone else now, I can't tell you 'oo, though (we really idn't lookin' at anybody, we just wan' George, 'e's so good in the wet, a real rainmaster that bloke is, gah, we'll get 'im, we'll 'ire Drymaster, then wot)?!

I say, I 'ave to use the bog real bad after all that, I'm off now.

Dog's bollocks for all,

Dave

Seriously, that's the truth, Alain Prost and Dave Richards are linked to the team now. I think Flavio and Pat are gone, even if miraculously found not guilty.

:lol: I have a confession to make, I do like a bit of marmite, I bet you already knew that though, what with me being British. I don't like tea that much though, if that helps.

The team really wouldn't be the same without Flav and twat, I mean Pat, and it wouldn't take long for Prost and Davey to run it into the ground I'm sure. Time will tell.

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WTF?

now its Pat who is given the immunity!

Renault executive director of engineering Pat Symonds, central tothe ongoing Singapore 'Crashgate' scandal, has been offered immunity bythe FIA in exchange for him telling the truth about the events leadingup to the infamous crash, meaning the Briton could escape an almostcertain lifetime ban from F1 if found guilty. The news was revealed inTuesday's edition of Britain's Times, as Monday's World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) draws ever-nearer.

The news means Renault's team principal Flavio Briatore will be theonly member of the team holding a pivotal role in the case not to haveimmunity from prosecution. Protagonist Nelson Piquet has already beentold by the FIA that he will not face sanctions in exchange for thetruth. Flavio Briatore now remains the only man in line for theexpected lifetime ban from F1.

A copy of Symonds interview with FIA stewards at the Belgian GrandPrix to discuss Piquet's crash revealed that the British engineerrefused to answer questions relating to a crucial pre-race meeting andthe crash itself, but the governing body is now hoping of unravellingthe precise chain of events that led to Piquet's crash, whichsubsequently resulted in team-mate Fernando Alonso winning the race.Symonds evidence may prove crucial to prove Briatore's involvement,with the charismatic Italian having so far denied any knowledge of theconspiracy.

The Times is also carrying details of pit-to-car radiotransmissions early during the race, and although the transcript failsto definitively prove the crash was orchestrated within the team, a fewunusually-timed radio calls were recorded. For example, Piquet is heardasking for the current lap number (lap 8 at the time), informationwhich is routinely available to the driver at the end of each lap viahis pitboard.

Then, after Alonso pits, Briatore issues an order for Piquet to pushhard, supposedly in an attempt to catch Honda's Rubens Barrichelloahead. However the chase ended just a lap later when the Brazilian spunout at turn 17, bringing out the decisive safety car that handed Alonsothe win.

http://www.manipef1.com/news/articles/10001/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Give Flavio too some immunity and problemo solved.

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:lol: Everybody will have immunity and nobody gets punished! Winner all around. Seriously, if that's true, could it be any more obvious that Max hates Flavio?

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Max has just played every card he got. There is no way Flavio can walk out of those hearings without a guilty charge. Otherwise, Flavio's lawyers will demolish Mosley for such a gross manipulation of the case. I think it was a serious mistake from Mosley. Even if he gets a damning veredict against Flavio (and, like I said, FIA has now no other choice), the fact that he had to give immunity to the two only persons actually involved in the matter at hand to incriminate a less commited third person (according to the evidence so far disclosed) will certainly nullify any credibility the veredict might have had. It's as if the USA gave immunity to Bin Laden and all the terrorists involved in 9/11 to testify against Hugo Chavez. It has come down to a simple war of revenge amongst two powerful mobsters. Basically, from now on, you can believe anything you want because no statement from Piquet, Pat, Mosley or Flavio will be free from taint.

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Now its just Nando who has to get caught, please Max, don't spare the monobrow....please...:D

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:lol:

'Mentirosa' is a classic here in what we call ''orquestillas de fiestas de barrio''.You know,typical fiestas where your aunt has a couple of dozens of wine glasses and your uncle ends up dancing with the priest.

I wish I coud go to one of those fiestas, I mean if they don't play any bachata.

:lol:

As I was reading down, I was wondering what had made Andres change his tone... and suddenly it all becomes clear! Anyway, I also wonder why Piquet Sr would make that up. It doesn't seem that implausible that Alonso would have planned it out, given his famous involvement in strategy decisions and the (otherwise) ludicrous strategy he was on in Singapore.

That's the kind of things that makes you think that he knew about it, NOBODY will start a race in a street circuit were is almost impossible to pass, with a light fuel load risking to stuck on traffic(like it really happened to him) and not going at least to ask how do you think this this strategy is going to work? he knew it and even those who can't see he knew it know that knew it.

:huh: :huh:

Changed my tone?

I don't wonder at all why would Piquet Sr say that. It's an obvious case of pure bitterness, just like Flavio's remarks about Nelsinho Pikachu's private life. Piquet the Elder "thinks" or "believes" that Nando knew about it. I "think" or "believe" that right now Cameron Diaz is touching herself thinking about me. He did not bring anything new to the debate. His theory makes no sense and fails to provide evidence so far to make such connection. And that's a lot in a case that does not make much sense since the beggining, anyways.

If he said Alonso knew it he must be based on some info from Piquet, I bet he knows more about this than all of us together, maybe NPJ didn't want to involve Alonso in this but this doesn't mean he wasn't in this at all, NP does not have any reason to be bitter about Alonso at all, if he said he knows why he did it and FIA should know about it already even if they are giving another vaccine to FA like in Mclaren or maybe he is already immune since then.

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Now its just Nando who has to get caught, please Max, don't spare the monobrow....please...:D

He should be sentenced to work in Renault's pit changing tires or holding the fuel rig for at least five year or until Piquet Jr wins a F1 race whichever comes first.

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It's just a little sad, like, un poco, maybe dos pocos, that the sport is so full of liars that anyone is exempt from their actions just for telling the truth, as if telling the truth is some great feat that no man is capable of. What a bunch of lame POS pitiful excuses of sportsman and people in general.

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earth calls...

...aaaaaaand... she takes the bait!!!!

clap3.gif

But! Didn't we hear that all those allegation of Mercedes spying on Ferrari were a bunch of baloney???

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Max has just played every card he got. There is no way Flavio can walk out of those hearings without a guilty charge. Otherwise, Flavio's lawyers will demolish Mosley for such a gross manipulation of the case. I think it was a serious mistake from Mosley. Even if he gets a damning veredict against Flavio (and, like I said, FIA has now no other choice), the fact that he had to give immunity to the two only persons actually involved in the matter at hand to incriminate a less commited third person (according to the evidence so far disclosed) will certainly nullify any credibility the veredict might have had. It's as if the USA gave immunity to Bin Laden and all the terrorists involved in 9/11 to testify against Hugo Chavez. It has come down to a simple war of revenge amongst two powerful mobsters. Basically, from now on, you can believe anything you want because no statement from Piquet, Pat, Mosley or Flavio will be free from taint.

Remember those old times when F1 was about racing?

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Can't be arsed to look up the source, but I see that now Pat Symonds is being offered immunity to testify. Crazy given that he and Piquet are equally involved, yet both have immunity.

Oh goodie, yet another objective investigation that has nothing to do with personal vendettas.... NOT!

....and this is precisely why Max and Bernie have to go

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Max has just played every card he got. There is no way Flavio can walk out of those hearings without a guilty charge. Otherwise, Flavio's lawyers will demolish Mosley for such a gross manipulation of the case. I think it was a serious mistake from Mosley. Even if he gets a damning veredict against Flavio (and, like I said, FIA has now no other choice), the fact that he had to give immunity to the two only persons actually involved in the matter at hand to incriminate a less commited third person (according to the evidence so far disclosed) will certainly nullify any credibility the veredict might have had. It's as if the USA gave immunity to Bin Laden and all the terrorists involved in 9/11 to testify against Hugo Chavez. It has come down to a simple war of revenge amongst two powerful mobsters. Basically, from now on, you can believe anything you want because no statement from Piquet, Pat, Mosley or Flavio will be free from taint.

Offering Pat Symonds immunity does not guarantee that he will 'spill the beans'. He is immensely loyal to the team and Flavio. This is basically a war of words, allegation and innuendo. The FIA have nothing in terms of hard evidence and never will have unless, Alonso or a senior member of the team comes out and supports Piquets's claims. I have known Pat for a number of years and I find it hard to imagine, that he would even contemplate becoming involved in such a horrendous scenario. If he has, it would be my guess that he would retire rather than drop the team in the mire. No wonder Ferrari are sitting on the fence with regard to Kimi - if Nando in implicated in Crashgate, the Scuderia will probably steer well clear of him for a year or two. At this time, they could do a lot worse than sign Luizzi, especially after the way he handled himself in Practice, Quali and the race at Monza. At least he will have his heart and soul in the job. They need an extraordinary car with an extraordinary driver team if they are to win another Championship and for my money, Kimi isn't up to the job.

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Well, now it is pretty obvious who ia target, but what if too many people already have immunity? What would FIA do if Pat Symmonds in spite of immunity shields Briatore and Renault in exchange for generous retirement. Briatore might get no penalty or minor penalty and two executors will have immunity. That would look like comedy. In my opinion Symonds should not get immunity because FIA risks not being able to punish anyone. Pat cannot escape, there is physical evidence that implicate him in the conspiracy, but there is no physical evidence that implicate Briatore - on the contrary he "expresses disappointment when NPJ crashes". Only way Briatore can be implicated is if both Pat and Symonds agree that he was informed and active in organizing it.

So, thinking again about it... Symonds immunity is Bernie's way to rescue Briatore honor in exchange for his retirement from F1 at the end of the season. Pat would take all the blame and a lot of cash once spotlights are off. Didn't they use similar scenario to remove Ron Dennis except Dennis did not need cash?

Creadibility of F1 would decrease one notch further but who cares: Max is stepping down and Bernie cannot go much longer. So, while they are around it will be business as usual.

EDIT: This post was written at the same time as Insider's but he was faster to publish :)

Edited by wapi

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Can't be arsed to look up the source, but I see that now Pat Symonds is being offered immunity to testify. Crazy given that he and Piquet are equally involved, yet both have immunity.

Oh goodie, yet another objective investigation that has nothing to do with personal vendettas.... NOT!

....and this is precisely why Max and Bernie have to go

Whatever. If that's what it takes for the truth to come out. It's not a court of law, they can't subpoena someone. They're using the best of what they have available. Frankly blaming Max and Bernie for the fact that the biggest teams in F1 are a bunch of cheats is a bit rich.

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Offering Pat Symonds immunity does not guarantee that he will 'spill the beans'. He is immensely loyal to the team and Flavio. This is basically a war of words, allegation and innuendo. The FIA have nothing in terms of hard evidence and never will have unless, Alonso or a senior member of the team comes out and supports Piquets's claims. I have known Pat for a number of years and I find it hard to imagine, that he would even contemplate becoming involved in such a horrendous scenario. If he has, it would be my guess that he would retire rather than drop the team in the mire. No wonder Ferrari are sitting on the fence with regard to Kimi - if Nando in implicated in Crashgate, the Scuderia will probably steer well clear of him for a year or two. At this time, they could do a lot worse than sign Luizzi, especially after the way he handled himself in Practice, Quali and the race at Monza. At least he will have his heart and soul in the job. They need an extraordinary car with an extraordinary driver team if they are to win another Championship and for my money, Kimi isn't up to the job.

Do you really have such immense faith in anyone working in F1? The standards of unscrupulousness seem perfectly normal for any profession where this kind of money is involved. And Symonds feels he owes his personal loyalty to a sleaze bag like Flavio? Maybe there's just too many skeletons..

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I can't believe how everyone's pinning this on Max and Bernie, with the already available evidence before us:

FIA adviser: Nelson Piquet Jnr says that he was asked by you to cause a deliberate crash. Is that true?

Symonds: Nelson had spoken to me the day before and suggested that. That's all I'd really like to say.

So it's one giant coincidence that Piquet crashed??

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How the f$%& are Bernie and Max responsible for the fact that two of the biggest teams in F1, MClaren and Renault are f&*king cheats? PEople like Ron Dennis, Alonso, Piquet, Flavio have destroyed the sport more than B & M could even if they tried.

"FIA adviser: Nelson Piquet Jnr says that he was asked by you to cause a deliberate crash. Is that true?

Symonds: Nelson had spoken to me the day before and suggested that. That's all I'd really like to say."

And I suppose it's one giant coincidence that that is exactly what happened??

Edited by cavallino

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