Kimi'S Career

[Schumikonen 2]

This has somehow turned into a discussion about who is better out of Michael and Kimi. I don't think that's the point. The point I made from the start is that Kimi is not the driver that he was. He is not hungry looking. Please don't try and blind me with fastest lap figures and claims that Kimi was better than Michael at handling bad cars. That's a big bucket load of subjective cod w*nk.

Let's deal with what we have. Michael re-built Ferrari to be able to give Kimi the opportunity to drive a competitive car. Kimi can only dream what is like to be as devoted to the role of success as Michael was.

And now the nail in the coffin, the indisputable fact. Ferrari have retained Massa and dropped Kimi. Why would they do that if they had utter faith in him being fast? WHY?

I'm getting tired of all this Button worship and Kimi disappointment. The team owners know what they are doing. We ourselves as casual observers have brought into question the motivation and/or ability of Button and Kimi this year. Why is it now that Ross Brawn and Stefano Domenicali have acted, as professionals, that we turn our backs on all the questions we had and instead get all gooey eyed?

This is motor racing. It's survival of the fittest, not tolerance of the weak.

Let me start by saying that you started it by saying Kimi was suppose to fill Schumi's shoes and I am showing you how he did this and more I am not comparing them or trying to show who is the best between them, like I said they are two different persons and two different drivers but you are taking into consideration that when Kimi arrived to Ferrari he found a team in transcition for the Schumi's team to what it is today with a different management and even a different car degsiner and you called Kimi slow (which is the only reason why we are having this discussion here) but so far you haven't show me anything to aval your claims, Kimi said about Toyota that is not cool to drive bad cars, if Kimi lost some motivation this year was only because of having to drive a bar car, he won the WDC in 2007 and you already saw what he did in 2008 and it is still fresh in memory that Kimi was the best driver of the second half of the season even when did had a bad car which it was not being developed.

So you call it slow but you won't have any fact to sustain your words, so I think it is time to hang the helmet in this topic, as for Massa, yes Massa (I already gave my reason why Ferrari chose Massa over Kimi, so there's no point in bringing that here again) was faster but that doesn't mean Kimi was slow and let's hope for Kimi to be in a good team in 2010 and let's see what happen, if it happen.

[dribbler 6]

Let me start by saying that you started it by saying Kimi was suppose to fill Schumi's shoes and I am showing you how he did this and more I am not comparing them or trying to show who is the best between them, like I said they are two different persons and two different drivers but you are taking into consideration that when Kimi arrived to Ferrari he found a team in transcition for the Schumi's team to what it is today with a different management and even a different car degsiner and you called Kimi slow (which is the only reason why we are having this discussion here) but so far you haven't show me anything to aval your claims, Kimi said about Toyota that is not cool to drive bad cars, if Kimi lost some motivation this year was only because of having to drive a bar car, he won the WDC in 2007 and you already saw what he did in 2008 and it is still fresh in memory that Kimi was the best driver of the second half of the season even when did had a bad car which it was not being developed.

So you call it slow but you won't have any fact to sustain your words, so I think it is time to hang the helmet in this topic, as for Massa, yes Massa (I already gave my reason why Ferrari chose Massa over Kimi, so there's no point in bringing that here again) was faster but that doesn't mean Kimi was slow and let's hope for Kimi to be in a good team in 2010 and let's see what happen, if it happen.

Kimi hasn't filled Michael's shoes. If he had, he would have equalled his successes and driven the team forwards. He hasn't done either. My description of Kimi as 'slow' refers more to his current state compared to his previous state. I have never been one to archive statistics to prove a point, I go by what I see in front of me. I see a Kimi who is not as quick as he was. A slower Kimi. A Kimi beaten by Massa.

Finally, great drivers never give up. Kimi has given up.

[Schumikonen 2]

Kimi hasn't filled Michael's shoes. If he had, he would have equalled his successes and driven the team forwards. He hasn't done either. My description of Kimi as 'slow' refers more to his current state compared to his previous state. I have never been one to archive statistics to prove a point, I go by what I see in front of me. I see a Kimi who is not as quick as he was. A slower Kimi. A Kimi beaten by Massa.

Finally, great drivers never give up. Kimi has given up.

Like I told you Kimi's 3 years at Ferrari were more succesful that Schumi's first three years(and don't tell me excuses, those are facts)

Schumi sucked big time with the worse car Ferrari gave him(2005) while Kimi overcame the situation to end the season as the best driver.

Don't tell you go by what you got in front because the whole world(and I think you are in it) saw Kimi being the best driver from half of the season so you too got that in front of you and you don't admit it(and that's OK with me as long as you don't tell me different from the real thing)

In all you wrote here I will only buy that Massa beat him but once again that's doesn't make him slow, that make Massa fast and everybody know that he is fast and I like him too so I don't mind if Massa beat him and I never tried to hide it or find an excuse for that, simply Massa did a better job in terms of points and that ok with me too.

So as a finishing point I am going to tell this once more in the same frame of time Kimi was a lot more sucessful at Ferrari that Schumi and I even have a son named after Michael and I don't have any problem admiting this but I will remind you about Prost and his time at Ferrari and why he was sacked from the team and how he won another championship in style after that, so not every great driver have to succeed at Ferrari and even a legent like Prost had his hard time at that team and that didn't mean anything, he was hired by another team and he won and he retired as the WDC.

[Quiet One 15]

Kimi sucks.

Just because Kimi is great but doesn't think we are worthy of enjoying him giving his best. So he acts like a guy that can't be bothered and asks for money.

Sorry, Kimi, you are not that great, and never were. **** you.

[Schumikonen 2]

Kimi sucks.

Just because Kimi is great but doesn't think we are worthy of enjoying him giving his best. So he acts like a guy that can't be bothered and asks for money.

Sorry, Kimi, you are not that great, and never were. **** you.

You don't have this one right it's quite the contrary, he is trying to show us the best of him but in order to do that he wants to have a top drive otherwise people will be talking about his lack of motivation or that he is slow even when he is getting the best possible result in the car he has, I would be tire of that situation too, I understand perfectly why he is only willing to drive the best possible car and he is right about it. Just look at what people are saying about him this season even with the result he got and knowing that he had a bad car.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Schumikonen. Nobody will ever be able to fill MS' shoes.

I'll take on board the fact that Kimi's start in Ferrari was much better than Michael's. But in his time has he managed to pull the team, including Massa's to work for him? Not even after his WDC. Sad fact.

Michael managed that in a year. He had Eddie's team and after Eddie, Rubens. You didn't ness with the Schumi. You gave him everything and more. Sad fact.

Its impossible to deny that Kimi somewhere down the line lost his fight. Sad fact.

But to say he stepped into Michael's shoes. Not doable. Like comparing Jim Clark with Nelson Piquet Jr.

Delusion has to end here. I get it most of all. I'm a Button fan! There's only so much you can argue.

[dribbler 6]

Oh dear. Okay, one more, Schumikonen;

Did you watch Formula One in 1996? Did you see what Michael had and what he did with it? Are you seriously comparing the Ferrari of 1996 with the Ferrari of 2007? Michael helped make Ferrari great again. The difference is that Kimi won a championship because of the hard work that had been done before him, not because of what he has done. Ironically, during his tenure, the team has slipped. What does that tell you? What do you see in front of you? Is there a single F1 fan in the land who hasn't once asked "what the f*ck has haapened to Kimi?"? Did you ever question Michael's commitment?

I hope you know the difference between chalk and cheese or your sandwiches are gonna taste f*ckin' horrible.

[wapi 4]

Ironically, during his tenure, the team has slipped. What does that tell you? What do you see in front of you? Is there a single F1 fan in the land who hasn't once asked "what the f*ck has haapened to Kimi?"? Did you ever question Michael's commitment?

Team slipped because of bad "let's make Ferrari Italian again" concept. SD is clearly not capable of managing pitwall. Level of errors in the garage and on the pitwall they managed to make in 2007 and 2008 is incredible. As a punishment they removed Baldiseri, but who really had to be removed was Domenicali.

There is single F1 fan that did not ask your question - me. I think this guy is driving as good as he ever did, but the team is not on the level of McLaren where he used to drive before. He is not the guy to make self-promotional events of criticizing his team or to make sure everyone thinks he brings 0.6 seconds to the car. He is not going to demand special "number one" treatment. He made public that he does not enjoy promotional activities although in some commercials he did, you can see that he enjoyed. He believes that there is role for each team member and that his role is to drive the car as fast as possible. He is not the guy to impose him self on anyone. He is not the guy to volunteer to help Badoer, but he would not be rude or reject to help if Badoer asked. That is very Scandinavian - helpful but not intrusive. He did not find common language with Ferrari constructors, but that is two way process. We will see how is next in line going to work with them. Maybe much better, maybe not. Nevertheless, those guys from Ferrari garage admired him (based on telemetry) for his achievements with F60. Nobody from the pitlane, ever complained for his committment. That is swine flu of the Formula 1 world.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Do you know, I've realised something. It seems every thread with Kimi on the title seems to be a hot thread with loads of pages & I'm not sure why?? I remember a 20-page thread about him in 2007 but can't find it!

[Jean Todt 4]

Great Debate, and Andres finally having his chance to throw the mud back at resident perv Priest...

Well well, Ferrari didn't slip that backwards, they still won the constructors, lost the WDC by just one point and they have only themselves and the new rules to blame for their performance this season...by new rules I mean, limited testing. Kimi can never match Micheal's exclusive commitment, no drivers in the history of F1 can be as patient and commited to building a team like the way he did, he single handedly made Ferrari a team every driver dreams of driving for. Can we thing of any other driver staying back in the team factory late night and making sure the car is developed in the right way and going out to buy Pizza for the guys who working on it? nope......

Kimi won the WDC during his first year, but he did it without much experience before the first race, he was able to master a car which was not tailor made for him, and it was still not the best car on grid. Massa on the other hand had several years of experience but he was trashed by Kimi, during his second year, Massa returned the favour but Ferrari did seem to have a faster car compared to Mclaren, but Kimi could not get with grip and the media made a lot of stories about his lack of commitment. Well, Massa could not win the WDC, thanks to countless blunders, but his rival team too had their fare share of blunders and unwanted punishment...,anyways.. During the third year, we cannot say that Massa beat Kimi, because the season didn't end when Massa had to move aside, and Kimi did have some mechanical failures. He scored consistently despite the fact that Ferrari stopped developing the car, never whined and complained much other than saying that he doesn't know if it was the right discession to have stopped developing the car, and yet single handedly took the team to finish almost third.....lost by just one point.

[Schumikonen 2]

Oh dear. Okay, one more, Schumikonen;

Did you watch Formula One in 1996? Did you see what Michael had and what he did with it? Are you seriously comparing the Ferrari of 1996 with the Ferrari of 2007? Michael helped make Ferrari great again. The difference is that Kimi won a championship because of the hard work that had been done before him, not because of what he has done. Ironically, during his tenure, the team has slipped. What does that tell you? What do you see in front of you? Is there a single F1 fan in the land who hasn't once asked "what the f*ck has haapened to Kimi?"? Did you ever question Michael's commitment?

I hope you know the difference between chalk and cheese or your sandwiches are gonna taste f*ckin' horrible.

you need to read my post if you want to continue with this, I told you and you know that Ferrari during Kimi's time was not the same team that Michael had, Kimi never drove a car design by the same designer that created Schumi'w winning title cars, Brawn and Todt left the team, Michael became a Ferrari's "advisor" who was in full support of Massa instead of Kimi he even admited that he left the team to make place for Massa and he was a big part of Alonso hiring, who do think tht Advisor would Advise the team to keep between Massa and Kimi, you may see as you want but Kimi never had the same team that took Michael to win a WDC and that is a fact so Kimi won the WDC with a different "team" you can't deny that, Ferrari changed its designer in 2005 and they built a crap car in that season from that time o Michael never won a WDC again so when he left Ferrari, he left a team who was changing and that changed team is that has taken Ferrari to the point where it is today it is not Kimi's fault, Kimi is just a driver and we are talking about driver not about managing, Schumi was also a manager Kimi is just a driver I'll give you that but in the drivers apartment Kimi did his job and did it better that Schumi in the same frame time.

But there is someting that you are intentionally omiting here, when Schumi went to Ferrari he took his winning team with him and eventhougt it took four(4) dry seasons in that team(from 1996 to 1999) and another full season(2000) for him to win the WDC if we count the 2000 season we may say he took 5 years to win the first Ferrari's title

You definitelly are not reading the cars that I am comparing(I even gave you the years) are 2005's and 2009's, keep reading and answer accordingly.

[Schumikonen 2]

Team slipped because of bad "let's make Ferrari Italian again" concept. SD is clearly not capable of managing pitwall. Level of errors in the garage and on the pitwall they managed to make in 2007 and 2008 is incredible. As a punishment they removed Baldiseri, but who really had to be removed was Domenicali.

There is single F1 fan that did not ask your question - me. I think this guy is driving as good as he ever did, but the team is not on the level of McLaren where he used to drive before. He is not the guy to make self-promotional events of criticizing his team or to make sure everyone thinks he brings 0.6 seconds to the car. He is not going to demand special "number one" treatment. He made public that he does not enjoy promotional activities although in some commercials he did, you can see that he enjoyed. He believes that there is role for each team member and that his role is to drive the car as fast as possible. He is not the guy to impose him self on anyone. He is not the guy to volunteer to help Badoer, but he would not be rude or reject to help if Badoer asked. That is very Scandinavian - helpful but not intrusive. He did not find common language with Ferrari constructors, but that is two way process. We will see how is next in line going to work with them. Maybe much better, maybe not. Nevertheless, those guys from Ferrari garage admired him (based on telemetry) for his achievements with F60. Nobody from the pitlane, ever complained for his committment. That is swine flu of the Formula 1 world.

you gave him a great answer but he won't take it, he will look into every little detail not related to drive to blame Kimi, like not managing the team, failure to appear at Schumi's goodbye ceremony because he was in the toilet or any other insane reason, because he just want to ignore the facts and keep fedding his crazy opinion about Kimi, look how long had we've been debating this and so far he've been aroung Kimi's life but haven't said why in the world he(and only he) is saying that Kimi's slow even when everybody else is supporting Kimi in that department and I expect him to keep saying so but are his words against clear facts, I bet that he can not do Kimi's job even in a playstation, itis very easy to criticize in front of a tv, ask me about, I continually do it wiht Alonso

[Schumikonen 2]

Do you know, I've realised something. It seems every thread with Kimi on the title seems to be a hot thread with loads of pages & I'm not sure why?? I remember a 20-page thread about him in 2007 but can't find it!

I think this is the one you're looking for Kimi's thread

[Schumikonen 2]

Great Debate, and Andres finally having his chance to throw the mud back at resident perv Priest...

Well well, Ferrari didn't slip that backwards, they still won the constructors, lost the WDC by just one point and they have only themselves and the new rules to blame for their performance this season...by new rules I mean, limited testing. Kimi can never match Micheal's exclusive commitment, no drivers in the history of F1 can be as patient and commited to building a team like the way he did, he single handedly made Ferrari a team every driver dreams of driving for. Can we thing of any other driver staying back in the team factory late night and making sure the car is developed in the right way and going out to buy Pizza for the guys who working on it? nope......

Kimi won the WDC during his first year, but he did it without much experience before the first race, he was able to master a car which was not tailor made for him, and it was still not the best car on grid. Massa on the other hand had several years of experience but he was trashed by Kimi, during his second year, Massa returned the favour but Ferrari did seem to have a faster car compared to Mclaren, but Kimi could not get with grip and the media made a lot of stories about his lack of commitment. Well, Massa could not win the WDC, thanks to countless blunders, but his rival team too had their fare share of blunders and unwanted punishment...,anyways.. During the third year, we cannot say that Massa beat Kimi, because the season didn't end when Massa had to move aside, and Kimi did have some mechanical failures. He scored consistently despite the fact that Ferrari stopped developing the car, never whined and complained much other than saying that he doesn't know if it was the right discession to have stopped developing the car, and yet single handedly took the team to finish almost third.....lost by just one point.

And yet this guy says Kimi is slow and he say the he only see what he got in front, I guess I will have to go to Mike's thread about what are you looking at to see what it is that he got in front it looks like it is not anything about F1.

[freaky2 1]

OK, wapi, good defense. Abbas, good defense. Dribbler, good offense. Shumikonen, makes me want to never again look at the thread. Face it Tommy, you become unreasonable when you talk about Kimi, and unreasonable debate is never fun. And you p**sed Dribbler and soon you'll start throwing punches maybe... xD

Anyway, I'd like Kimi to stay in F1 in whichever team, I don't give a Sh#t. Because he's quite random and we might see some brilliance, no matter if he drives for Ferrari or Manor (what an ugly name if I may say xD). And that randomness should be damned because it's the cause of everyone messing with Kimi >.< He's fast, but what's that good for if you're just gonna crash fast against a wall? Oh well... My point is, he might impress more in a Sh#tty team if he finds his long lost motivation, and then we'll have long debates about how unfair it is that he's in a Sh#tty team... it's all cyclical xD

[Kati 0]

Look here: Haug says it is not going to be all German team http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80175 - so most probably Button-Rosberg.

no. in no moment he says he can't have two germans. he says it's not about nationality, but about the best drivers for the seat. if they consider two germans the best drivers for the seat, great.

[mikathegreat2 2]

I think this is the one you're looking for Kimi's thread

That's the 1! I knew it was about Kimi being back in Bahrain but kept searching it in title !

[Schumikonen 2]

OK, wapi, good defense. Abbas, good defense. Dribbler, good offense. Shumikonen, makes me want to never again look at the thread. Face it Tommy, you become unreasonable when you talk about Kimi, and unreasonable debate is never fun. And you p**sed Dribbler and soon you'll start throwing punches maybe... xD

Unreasonable because I said Kimi is fast and that he did a good job a Ferrari? well, then yes I am, I admited Massa did a better job and beat Kimi and was faster but I don't acept the Kimi is slow part or that he didn't do a good job at Ferrari or that he was suppose to take Schumi's roll in the team, Kimi is a driver and did a very good job at Ferrari, that's my point and if that is being unreasonable then I admit that too

PS: I may be more unreasonable wen talikng about Alonso, is there anyone who wants to start a thread about Alonso because it looks like this one is getting to and end.

[wapi 4]

no. in no moment he says he can't have two germans. he says it's not about nationality, but about the best drivers for the seat. if they consider two germans the best drivers for the seat, great.

We want to have the best ones and we definitely do not want to have the pure German team - it's an international Silver Arrows team and we want to have the best drivers in the car.

[Kati 0]

We want to have the best ones and we definitely do not want to have the pure German team - it's an international Silver Arrows team and we want to have the best drivers in the car.

they're relative sentences. he's putting the importance of first against the second. we want this and not that. he even concludes saluting the first phrase idea instead of second. you're just reading what u want to read.

[wapi 4]

they're relative sentences. he's putting the importance of first against the second. we want this and not that. he even concludes saluting the first phrase idea instead of second. you're just reading what u want to read.

As well as you are

I would use different wording to say that: "we do not aim to have all-German team" instead of "we do not want...". My understanding of English might be less than perfect, but second sentence would imply that "we will fight against something happening", while first one implies that "it is not our intention but we might end up with it anyhow". My 2 cents

[Kati 0]

As well as you are

I would use different wording to say that: "we do not aim to have all-German team" instead of "we do not want...". My understanding of English might be less than perfect, but second sentence would imply that "we will fight against something happening", while first one implies that "it is not our intention but we might end up with it anyhow". My 2 cents

well, we'll find out soon ^^

[Ikyrotz 0]

Apparently Kimi's manager, Steve Robertson, has confirmed to Finnish Turun Sanomat that negotiations with McLaren have ended without a solution and Kimi will take a year off F1, concentrating on other challenges. At least a few rallies and Le Mans 24 hour race is mentioned. He says Kimi still wants to race in F1 if he can find a seat for 2011 with which he can fight for WDC.

http://www.ts.fi/onl...eilu/89167.html

[Schumikonen 2]

Apparently Kimi's manager, Steve Robertson, has confirmed to Finnish Turun Sanomat that negotiations with McLaren have ended without a solution and Kimi will take a year off F1, concentrating on other challenges. At least a few rallies and Le Mans 24 hour race is mentioned. He says Kimi still wants to race in F1 if he can find a seat for 2011 with which he can fight for WDC.

http://www.ts.fi/onl...eilu/89167.html

It's a sad news but I think he took the best decision.

[Negative Ions 0]

F&CK

will I even bother watching anymore... time will tell.