la force supreme des mclaren

Felipe 1 Fernando 0

95 posts in this topic

Funny how some of Alonso fans and some guys with M1F1 like to throw Sh#t on the fan.....by pulling Lewis in this...Too bad they are left with no other option, just to divert the bad light away from their favourite driver, they come up with desperate excuses like Lewis not wanting Kimi as his team mate, blah blah....man...you guys are really desperate, the only Nando fan who seem to be more on the sensible side is (hate to admit it) is Andres.

About this topic, ofcourse Nando knew about it, Massa is right I belive.....but kicking out or punishing Nando (even though I wish they did it just to shut up some goats here) does not make sense in many ways, just because he gained advantage doesn't mean he has to be punished, its something like a market place, where when someone loses, due some unfortunate events someone automatically gains....and more over, it would have been a big loss for F1 if they banned Nando even for one season. Massa can speak his mind, he blames the singapore GP for his title loss, but what if he crashed on the last corner and never gained any points anyways? What if they didn't take away Lewis's win from SPA, there are a lot of what ifs one can ask when Massa keeps whinning......when someone cries over the spilt milk like him, then he automatically loses that respect he had built....Goodluck to Nando and Massa as team mates...

I just hope Kimi and Lewis become team mates......my dream team!!:)......

Edited by abbas_gear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anybody really be critical of Massa for what is essentially being upset at losing the title? That's all this is even if his perception of what happened is flawed and he isn't bright enough to consider the alternatives. Nobody at Ferrari is going to explain to him the numerous mistakes he and they made during the 2008 season which, in fact, had an even greater contribution to his loss of the title - that isn't the way the world works.

Do people really think Massa is throwing mud? I'm not sure the guy is really capable of playing mind-games or politics with Alonso. I think he is an emotional man and is genuinely under the belief that he was robbed. I find this quite easy to believe rather than some psychological/political intentions on Massa's part because Massa always seemed a few cards short of a deck.

Alonso's reply was quite classy and I'm glad to see he doesn't feel the need to fire back. In short: Felipe 0 - Alonso 1 ;)

Ferrari will have a job on their hands in 2010.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just making a joke about your reasoning (and Felipe's). No need to go thorugh all the nauseating 2007/2008 Alonso and Alonso haters issue.

The fact was and still remains that neither you nor Felipe can see the difference between a TAINTED championship and a ROBBED championship.

Last year championship was tainted due to the crashgate (among many other things). Did it cost Felipe the WDC? He (and you, and whoever agrees) must be kidding. It is simply stupid to believe that if the crashgate didn't happen all the other things (except for Massa winning that race) would have been remained the same. Under such light, Lewis was robbed of his WDC because of the Spa incident. It simply doesn't work that way. If (and this is a HUGE "if") Massa had won in Singapore, perhaps his engine would have given up at some other race. Lewis will certainly would have pushed harder...who know what would have happened?

Of course the crash gate tainted the championship. But it didn't deprive Massa of his "deserved" WDC any more than Nico's misteriously delayed drive through at that same race, for example.

:thbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Au contraire, my friend. You haven't thought this through. With the fuel rig still attached, he wouldn't have had to pit again and so would have won the race!

:clap3:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hasn't Massa consistently said the same thing right from the day it happened? I know it's possible he brought it up again to smear Alonso but he probably does genuinely believe what he's saying - and he must surely have a good idea how teams in F1 operate.

Also perhaps someone asked him about his views again in light of Alonso's move to Ferrari. Felipe might just be being honest when asked directly what he thought. Or perhaps the comments were supposed to be off the record.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watch this video and tell me why did LH have to let Alonso pass?

They had a meeting before qulifying and they agreed it was Alonso's turn to get the extra lap. Listen to Hamilton at the end of your video, you're blind if you cannot see he is lying. Good video, thank you. thumb.gif

What did Hamilton do?

As the final phase of qualifying began Hamilton was told to let Alonso by so the Spaniard could complete an extra lap.

Only one of McLaren

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anybody really be critical of Massa for what is essentially being upset at losing the title? That's all this is even if his perception of what happened is flawed and he isn't bright enough to consider the alternatives. Nobody at Ferrari is going to explain to him the numerous mistakes he and they made during the 2008 season which, in fact, had an even greater contribution to his loss of the title - that isn't the way the world works.

Nobody ever accused the kid of being too bright, I grant you that :whistling: Regarding the argument itself, it is idiotic! So was Nico's argument that he deserves to have won that race, as if his 2nd place weren't graciously given by Whitting which unexplicably took so manylaps to grant him a drive thru that should have been automatic. It's kiddo talk. Valuable only for their honesty value (no PR move there) but stupid nonetheless.

Do people really think Massa is throwing mud? I'm not sure the guy is really capable of playing mind-games or politics with Alonso. I think he is an emotional man and is genuinely under the belief that he was robbed. I find this quite easy to believe rather than some psychological/political intentions on Massa's part because Massa always seemed a few cards short of a deck.

:lol: We are not talking about some devious scheme to destabilize Alonso's emotional stance; a stance that, I must admit, is rather surprising and has been most of this year. Perhaps he is on medication? Anyways, back to Massa, you don't need to be Einstein to know that accusing your future teamate of deliberately cheating to steal your WDC is not a nice thing to say.

This is even funnier when compared to this interview he gave to O Globo a fortnight ago:

"Ser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the only Nando fan who seem to be more on the sensible side is (hate to admit it) is Andres.

Shut up you! We weren't supposed to be seen together! :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hasn't Massa consistently said the same thing right from the day it happened? I know it's possible he brought it up again to smear Alonso but he probably does genuinely believe what he's saying - and he must surely have a good idea how teams in F1 operate.

Also perhaps someone asked him about his views again in light of Alonso's move to Ferrari. Felipe might just be being honest when asked directly what he thought. Or perhaps the comments were supposed to be off the record.

I don't think Massa went to the press to talk about this, it is just like you said, he was asked about the topic and he answered, Massa said he went to complain about this with FB after the race, another thing to keep in mind here is that Massa was the WDC for a few seconds, he was celebratiing when he was told he actually lost the title, I don't remember anyone going through somehting like this before, he has every reason to be bitter.

Everybody, even the people from FIA knows Alonso knew about it but they would not gain anything punishing him like Abbas just said, even his fans know he knew about it but they just don't want to admit it, even if Alonso says he knew his fans will say he was forced to admit it, just like some people here said Renault was forced to blame FB without evidence.

Sad but true

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They had a meeting before qulifying and they agreed it was Alonso's turn to get the extra lap. Listen to Hamilton at the end of your video, you're blind if you cannot see he is lying. Good video, thank you. thumb.gif

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/CARS/FEATURES/TRACKSIDE/35614.html

At the end of the season Hamilton had had 7 extra laps while Alonso had only 2. swoon.gif

The extra lap was the key factor to get the pole position or at least a better position. eusa_think.gifErrr... Mmmm... Equality... Sure.

Nonsense (I like this word and I was looking for a chance to use it :P ) IF Hamilotn was so slow to the point of slowing Alonso down why he didn't pass him? on the other hand if he wasn't being slowed down why was he complaining? he is suppose to be the champ he is suppose to handle situations like that without loosing his head like he did that day. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nonsense (I like this word and I was looking for a chance to use it tongue.gif ) IF Hamilotn was so slow to the point of slowing Alonso down why he didn't pass him? on the other hand if he wasn't being slowed down why was he complaining? he is suppose to be the champ he is suppose to handle situations like that without loosing his head like he did that day. tongue.gif

You're lost. Ask Sherlock Holmes for a clue: extra lap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course he knew, I said it form the beggining, anyone who said he didn't it is just talking what he wants to think about this, but the real fact is that this whole thing just wouldn't work without Alonso knowledge/involment, you need to believe in your strategy in order for you to make it work, you need to understand it, you just don't go out to drive, without having any goals or expectations, you just don't drive expecting everybody to have a failure and that stuff of starting that race in the lightest fuel load from that position is very suspicious for any driver, you don't accept that kind of strategy with questioning and Alonso's comments that he leave the strategies to his engineers make is even more clear that he was looking for a way out of this.

I am sory for those who disagree, it is you right to do so and to think whatever you want but you are just fooling yourself by believing a lie, I mean if you really believe it which I doubt too.

Knowing that Fernando unreservedly made use of Ferrari information a few years back, I have no trouble believing he would be involved in this, but his comments to Flavio after the race, where he draws attention to the safety car as the reason why he won, seems too clever a ploy. Most guilty people of average intelligence (as I would place Fernando) would instinctively not draw attention to the 'crime'. Add to this that when asked about the race, Fernando, every single time, credited the Safety Car.

Another thing to consider....knowing how easily Fernando squealed on McLaren, would you, as Flavio and Pat, bring him in on this? I think not.

You can like him or hate him, but I don't think he knew about Piquet's intentional crash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Knowing that Fernando unreservedly made use of Ferrari information a few years back, I have no trouble believing he would be involved in this, but his comments to Flavio after the race, where he draws attention to the safety car as the reason why he won, seems too clever a ploy. Most guilty people of average intelligence (as I would place Fernando) would instinctively not draw attention to the 'crime'. Add to this that when asked about the race, Fernando, every single time, credited the Safety Car.

Another thing to consider....knowing how easily Fernando squealed on McLaren, would you, as Flavio and Pat, bring him in on this? I think not.

You can like him or hate him, but I don't think he knew about Piquet's intentional crash.

:lol:

Thank you because we have spent a thousand posts and what I was trying to explain was that, even from people that thinks very little about Alonso's attitude (like you) it would still make no sense to have brought Alonso into the plot. So, sinner or saint, the most logical conclussion was that he was not involved. I am sure that he must have been more than a little suspicious afterwards (like you said, he has average intelligence and a better view form the inside than us), but I don't think he knew it beforehand and I don't think he actually knew anything for sure afterwards. He must have been smart enough not to inquire too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

F1 media is so...............

Never mind, I just can't be bothered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Knowing that Fernando unreservedly made use of Ferrari information a few years back, I have no trouble believing he would be involved in this, but his comments to Flavio after the race, where he draws attention to the safety car as the reason why he won, seems too clever a ploy. Most guilty people of average intelligence (as I would place Fernando) would instinctively not draw attention to the 'crime'. Add to this that when asked about the race, Fernando, every single time, credited the Safety Car.

Another thing to consider....knowing how easily Fernando squealed on McLaren, would you, as Flavio and Pat, bring him in on this? I think not.

You can like him or hate him, but I don't think he knew about Piquet's intentional crash.

the same is applicable to FB when he said NPJ is not driver for crashing that day even when he sent him to crash, Alonso din't have another choice, he has to point at the safety car as he was in a position where he would never win the race and with a strategy that woud have never work without the safety car, no intelligence required here, he wouldn't pilled the bean if he was part of the whole scheme as he would have been as guilty as the others involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol:

Thank you because we have spent a thousand posts and what I was trying to explain was that, even from people that thinks very little about Alonso's attitude (like you) it would still make no sense to have brought Alonso into the plot. So, sinner or saint, the most logical conclussion was that he was not involved. I am sure that he must have been more than a little suspicious afterwards (like you said, he has average intelligence and a better view form the inside than us), but I don't think he knew it beforehand and I don't think he actually knew anything for sure afterwards. He must have been smart enough not to inquire too much.

Why didn't he question the strategy BEFORE the race? a light fuel load in the back of the grid when the F1 comoe sense is to fuel heavily the cars in those positions an early stop just would benefit him in case of a safety car and the most probable safety car that day may 0ahve come at the start of the race in which case he strategy would have been doom to failure even with NPJ crash due to the fuel comsumption behind safety car, that strategy it just doesn't make any sense ans he should know that, at least his fans says he knows is part of his strategies' planning but he said NOW that he leave that to his engineers. :eusa_think:

EDIT: the boy in the balloon was actually at his home.

Edited by Schumikonen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't we covered all this already...

Hamilton - glory seeking, but yellow (or some might say shrewd) in his team politicing.

Massa - not very good at playing the psychological game, feels cheated and likes a bit of a whinge.

Alonso - great driver, but cry baby and doesn't mind stitching others up if he can.

Hamilton's Dad - bully seeking vicarious glory through his son.

They deserve each other.

I think that just about wraps it up no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makes you feel bad about human nature, don't it?

Oh wait, we covered that too. Why are all the good topics already taken?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Massa is trying to make Alonso's life as harder as possible before he joins Ferrari, he's trying to make difficult his adaptation to the team and the tifosi but I don't think it will work. Only numbers will matter. I think he only started talking about Alonso after his arrival at Ferrari was made public. Massa should think about his first couple of races in 2008, that cost him the title. Or he should ask Ferrari for their mistake in Singapore. He's accusing Alonso for something already judged and sentenced where FIA remarked that Alonso didn't know anything about it.

It was funny that Pat Symonds was guilty of cheating because he used to say that Alonso lost control when a teammate beat him. What's his credit know?

I think Mercedes, and some people that worked with him in the past, want Kimi there for next season but Hamilton's daddy and some McLaren directors are doing their best to bring a weaker teammate. The story about Alonso in 2007 and the disadvantage of having 2 very good drivers is the main reason they repeat 24/7/365. What I know is that Mercedes are fed up with how things worked out in the past. They know what happened in 2007 and why they lost both championships, they know too that with a stronger driver along with Hamilton they would have won the WCC and even Hamilton made too many mistakes in 2008 to Mercedes's eyes.

But hey, around here it's Alonso who didn't want to partner Kimi in Ferrari. Yes, Alonso is that driver that would never find a team and blah, blah, blah... Remember?

And we still have to laugh a bit more this season while smiling about next one.

I hear you... and it's inevitable too that each driver loks after himself. Massa is trying his mouth at it and, well, I think it's been pointed out already that, in all truth, all have responded better to the situation than Massa. So as the sensei said:

Alonso's reply was quite classy and I'm glad to see he doesn't feel the need to fire back. In short: Felipe 0 - Alonso 1 ;)

Enough said, really.

Let me remind you that Alonso willfully/intentionally blocked Hamilton in the pit lane and he was punished for that action,...

It's interesting that every single time this matter is brought up there is no mention of the penalty that the _team_ also got. How come the team was punished? Was the team "willfully/intentionally" blocking Hamilton despite the teamboss confession that the team was racing against Alonso?

It is like I toold you one thing lead to another, but we will never know how the final result of the whole championship may have been without this crash, the only thing for sure now is that we all know that that race result was altered and the number may have been different at the end of the year...

Very, very true. But race results are altered on a race by race basis. In fact, noone beats Whiting when it comes to fixing races.

So...

Funny how some of Alonso fans and some guys with M1F1 like to throw Sh#t on the fan.....by pulling Lewis in this...

I ain't an Alonso fan AND if you have missed how Hamilton and his tennis dad run their business, you are completely out of touch with reality.

Besides, regardless of the many shortcomings of the two goofs you desperately want to "protect", their actions are completely understandable. When you land in F1, rob an entire top team, and have it all for yourself, you want to keep it no matter what. No driver would want to throw that away and their actions make sense no matter which driver would be involved.

And, be honest with yourself for once, Hamilton needs number one status more than the average driver. Just take a look at fuel loads and race strategies. McLaren knows they are not working with a strong racer. It's no secret... far from it.

Edited by maure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't we covered all this already...

Hamilton - glory seeking, but yellow (or some might say shrewd) in his team politicing.

Massa - not very good at playing the psychological game, feels cheated and likes a bit of a whinge.

Alonso - great driver, but cry baby and doesn't mind stitching others up if he can.

Hamilton's Dad - bully seeking vicarious glory through his son.

They deserve each other.

I think that just about wraps it up no?

we have to do something while we wait for the race :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1)It's interesting that every single time this matter is brought up there is no mention of the penalty that the _team_ also got. How come the team was punished? Was the team "willfully/intentionally" blocking Hamilton despite the teamboss confession that the team was racing against Alonso?

2)Very, very true. But race results are altered on a race by race basis. In fact, noone beats Whiting when it comes to fixing races.

So...

3)And, be honest with yourself for once, Hamilton needs number one status more than the average driver. Just take a look at fuel loads and race strategies. McLaren knows they are not working with a strong racer. It's no secret... far from it.

1)I think the team was punished because their employees did this mess and the rules states that whatever is done by any member of a team, that team will be responsible for that, but honestly speaking I don't rememeber that penalty. :blush:

2)I really think so too but as I pointed the difference with this one was the intention to alter it.

3)Maybe you're right about this but I consider LH a strong racer maybe I am mistaken in the meaning of strong racer but I do like what he can do with a car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ain't an Alonso fan AND if you have missed how Hamilton and his tennis dad run their business, you are completely out of touch with reality.

Besides, regardless of the many shortcomings of the two goofs you desperately want to "protect", their actions are completely understandable. When you land in F1, rob an entire top team, and have it all for yourself, you want to keep it no matter what. No driver would want to throw that away and their actions make sense no matter which driver would be involved.

And, be honest with yourself for once, Hamilton needs number one status more than the average driver. Just take a look at fuel loads and race strategies. McLaren knows they are not working with a strong racer. It's no secret... far from it.

So in short you admit that you do throw Sh#t on Lewis.....

Proof, where is the proof that Hamilton family is blocking Kimi? you and Alehop make countless posts about not just Lewis but also his dad....and when ever we ask you for the proof or a proper answer you keep dodging and in the end of the post you always say, that makes me smile....goofs, etc etc...we never get proper answers.....really sad that you do make some good posts here and you ruin all of them because of the unlimited hatred you have towards a family who have worked hard to get were they are now.

Secondly, Mclaren are still a racing team, and we all very well know that you and Alehop hate them to the core....and Alehop says that Lewis dad keeps blocking....it seems he thinks that Mercedes want Kimi but Hamiton's dad doesn't want him...etc etc....but who the **** are they to choose the drivers? you think a team like Mclaren would let two men stand who have come up with Mclaren's charity get in their way to deciding what is best for them? They have signed two strong drivers in the past and they wouldn't hesitate to do again and again....

Edited by abbas_gear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was funny that Pat Symonds was guilty of cheating because he used to say that Alonso lost control when a teammate beat him. What's his credit know?

Its funny that you think we buy your words more than Pat's..He may have been found guilty of cheating, but his words are still anyday more credible than yours. What Alonso showed or they way he reacted when he got trashed by his team mate was a perfect human reaction..I would have done the same thing if I were him...The only driver who immune to such reaction or emotion is Kimi.

Edited by abbas_gear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing that matters is who wins, on track. Only then will we be able to bitch, moan, hypothesize and spout out endless lines of bollocks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now