la force supreme des mclaren

Felipe 1 Fernando 0

95 posts in this topic

Makes you feel bad about human nature, don't it?

Oh wait, we covered that too. Why are all the good topics already taken?

:lol:

Ah but - Trulli, Webber, Glock, Rosberg, Heidfeld, Vettel, Button, Kimi, Kovi, Grosjean, Alglotsofvowelsesuari, Buemi are all very nice.

we have to do something while we wait for the race :P

only 2 days away now ;)

The only thing that matters is who wins, on track. Only then will we be able to bitch, moan, hypothesize and spout out endless lines of bollocks.

This thread is proof positive that you're incorrect on that one.

If there's one thing we are good at, it's bitching, moaning, hypothesizing and spouting endless lines of bollocks long before (and after) anyone's won anything.

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why is this such a big deal??? it was Glock who fuked Massa in last race. And it's not 100% sure he would win the race ( Singapore 08)...it was still long way to go, so Massa stop b!tching and prepare urself for the next season.

Edited by UrKo

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Surely this topic should infact be titled Felipe 0 - Alonso 1...

Lets face facts, all this shows is the following:

1. Massa has no problem at making up big fictional stories.

2. Massa a terrible looser as it wasn't Piquet that lost him the championship but rather his multiple errors throughout the 2008 season.

3. Massa is already sh!tting himself at having Alonso as a team mate!

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Surely this topic should infact be titled Felipe 0 - Alonso 1...

Lets face facts, all this shows is the following:

1. Massa has no problem at making up big fictional stories.

2. Massa a terrible looser as it wasn't Piquet that lost him the championship but rather his multiple errors throughout the 2008 season.

3. Massa is already sh!tting himself at having Alonso as a team mate!

what about this? :naughty:

Crashgate allegations continue to pursue Alonso

Friday 16th October 2009

Fernando Alonso just cannot shake off the allegation that he knew of the Renault conspiracy to fix last year's Singapore GP.

Any hope that the FIA World Council's verdict that Alonso was not privy to the plan would have put an end to the matter has proved forlorn. Not only has Felipe Massa, Alonso's team-mate at Ferrari next season, declared that "of course he knew" and refused to categorically withdraw the accusation despite Ferrari seeking to play down the inevitable furore but Nelson Piquet Sr has once again repeated his suspicions against the Spaniard.

"They all knew about it," Piquet told Gazzetta dello Sport this week. "Do you think Alonso would conceive a race where he starts 15th and makes a pit stop almost straight away? It was a perfect plan."

Of perhaps more concern to the Alonso camp will be the claim of James Allen, made in his personal blog, that 'Many of the drivers say the same thing privately, but have not wanted to say it publicly.'

In an interesting aside, Allen suggests that Massa's incendiary remarks have been motivated by a refusal to be cowed by the imminent arrival of the two-times World Champion.

'What's intriguing about Massa's comments here is that he wants to show Alonso from the outset that he is no pushover and he has no qualms about probing Alonso's weak points, such as the doubt over his involvement in the crash scandal and thus, by extension, his reputation,' says Allen.

The impression that Massa is seeking to unsettle Alonso has been endorsed by the Brazilian also warning his future team-mate that he will have to adapt to Ferrari rather than vice versa.

"It will have to be Fernando who adapts himself to the Ferrari style and not the other way around," said Massa. "I know how Ferrari works, he has to learn. If I was going to Renault it would be up to me to adapt to them."Source :ph34r:

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:lol:

Thank you because we have spent a thousand posts and what I was trying to explain was that, even from people that thinks very little about Alonso's attitude (like you) it would still make no sense to have brought Alonso into the plot. So, sinner or saint, the most logical conclussion was that he was not involved. I am sure that he must have been more than a little suspicious afterwards (like you said, he has average intelligence and a better view form the inside than us), but I don't think he knew it beforehand and I don't think he actually knew anything for sure afterwards. He must have been smart enough not to inquire too much.

Exsqueeze me, baldy, I said this right from the start, whilst you were still pondering if Alonso was involved or not. I feel like Felipe, robbed of the only reasonable conclusion I have ever posted on this forum!!! :lol:

In all serious, though, why would he have felt the need to inquire about the safety car? All joking aside, it's not like Piquet Jr hadn't already crashed a few times, so you'd automatically assume that it was just another mistake that was lucky enough to bring a SC to play into your hands. Coming in early is nothing new nor an excuse to question the involvement of Alonso in this case. I believe Kimi and Lewis have both come in earlier than planned this year, even when we know exactly how much fuel they have on board. I don't believe there is anything to be read into it.

The only thing that might have made Alonso suspicious afterwards would have been the telemetry and even that's not conclusive. I am sure the team kept that away from Alonso, though and I imagine the 1st time he saw it was at the hearing.

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Exsqueeze me, baldy, I said this right from the start, whilst you were still pondering if Alonso was involved or not. I feel like Felipe, robbed of the only reasonable conclusion I have ever posted on this forum!!! :lol:

In all serious, though, why would he have felt the need to inquire about the safety car? All joking aside, it's not like Piquet Jr hadn't already crashed a few times, so you'd automatically assume that it was just another mistake that was lucky enough to bring a SC to play into your hands. Coming in early is nothing new nor an excuse to question the involvement of Alonso in this case. I believe Kimi and Lewis have both come in earlier than planned this year, even when we know exactly how much fuel they have on board. I don't believe there is anything to be read into it.

The only thing that might have made Alonso suspicious afterwards would have been the telemetry and even that's not conclusive. I am sure the team kept that away from Alonso, though and I imagine the 1st time he saw it was at the hearing.

Well, I thought that if someone knew about robbing that must be you so no scooby snacks this time

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what about this? naughty.gif

Sorry, Nelsinho's Daddy and James Allen comments still proves nothing. Alonso started lighter that race at the back of the grid because his problem on Saturday wasn't that he didn't have the speed. He was one of the fastest cars on Saturday but his fuel pump stopped working. Remember? The strategy was clear and reasonable if Alonso could pass many heavier cars before the first stop.

Keep working, you're getting closer.

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Sorry, Nelsinho's Daddy and James Allen comments still proves nothing. Alonso started lighter that race at the back of the grid because his problem on Saturday wasn't that he didn't have the speed. He was one of the fastest cars on Saturday but his fuel pump stopped working. Remember? The strategy was clear and reasonable if Alonso could pass many heavier cars before the first stop.

Keep working, you're getting closer.

closer to convincing you that Alonso knew all along? or closer to realising that he didn't? :naughty:

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closer to convincing you that Alonso knew all along? or closer to realising that he didn't? naughty.gif

About Nando, I think that the events unfolded like this: he was given an unusual strategy, he does not suspect anything at that stage because unusual does not mean suspicious (it was used many times by many different drivers/teams), then comes the race, piquet crashes, blah blah blah, and he wins. In retrospective he might have found suspcious that the unusual strategy came along with the luckiest crash from Piquet so far. But I guess not damning enough to make Alonso want to inquire further. It was not his problem (quite the contrary) and deniability was the name of the game. No reason for him to know and no reason for him to want to know even if he suspected anything.

That was all I wanted to say.

Thanks Andr

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Sorry, Nelsinho's Daddy and James Allen comments still proves nothing. Alonso started lighter that race at the back of the grid because his problem on Saturday wasn't that he didn't have the speed. He was one of the fastest cars on Saturday but his fuel pump stopped working. Remember? The strategy was clear and reasonable if Alonso could pass many heavier cars before the first stop.

Keep working, you're getting closer.

Alonso confessing it will not prove anything to you, there's no more blind than the one who doesn't want to see. and ou are an ABF. B)

EDIT: He didn't know that he was handling Ferrari's confidential information when he was at Mclaren :whistling:

Edited by Schumikonen

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Saw in free paper that Massa apologised about his comments that Nando knew about the 2008 Singapore GP race fixing! Felipe 0-1 Fernando+Flabbio+Symonds+RF1

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Well, I thought that if someone knew about robbing that must be you so no scooby snacks this time´:P

About Nando, I think that the events unfolded like this: he was given an unusual strategy, he does not suspect anything at that stage because unusual does not mean suspicious (it was used many times by many different drivers/teams), then comes the race, piquet crashes, blah blah blah, and he wins. In retrospective he might have found suspcious that the unusual strategy came along with the luckiest crash from Piquet so far. But I guess not damning enough to make Alonso want to inquire further. It was not his problem (quite the contrary) and deniability was the name of the game. No reason for him to know and no reason for him to want to know even if he suspected anything.

You forget that I'm an honorary baldy and know exactly what you're thinking :lol:

CAMERON DIAZ

Geez, will you stop thinking about her all the time damnit.

Exactly. Quite a few teams have run lighter when they are out of position on the grid, if nothing else, just to do something different to the cars around them. I still don't think the lighter strategy and the lucky crash would have made Alonso even remotely suspicious, because he just wouldn't concieve that a driver would crash on purpose. Well, that's my theory, anyway.

Edited by pabloh20

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what about this? :naughty:

Crashgate allegations continue to pursue Alonso

Friday 16th October 2009

Fernando Alonso just cannot shake off the allegation that he knew of the Renault conspiracy to fix last year's Singapore GP.

Any hope that the FIA World Council's verdict that Alonso was not privy to the plan would have put an end to the matter has proved forlorn. Not only has Felipe Massa, Alonso's team-mate at Ferrari next season, declared that "of course he knew" and refused to categorically withdraw the accusation despite Ferrari seeking to play down the inevitable furore but Nelson Piquet Sr has once again repeated his suspicions against the Spaniard.

"They all knew about it," Piquet told Gazzetta dello Sport this week. "Do you think Alonso would conceive a race where he starts 15th and makes a pit stop almost straight away? It was a perfect plan."

Of perhaps more concern to the Alonso camp will be the claim of James Allen, made in his personal blog, that 'Many of the drivers say the same thing privately, but have not wanted to say it publicly.'

In an interesting aside, Allen suggests that Massa's incendiary remarks have been motivated by a refusal to be cowed by the imminent arrival of the two-times World Champion.

'What's intriguing about Massa's comments here is that he wants to show Alonso from the outset that he is no pushover and he has no qualms about probing Alonso's weak points, such as the doubt over his involvement in the crash scandal and thus, by extension, his reputation,' says Allen.

The impression that Massa is seeking to unsettle Alonso has been endorsed by the Brazilian also warning his future team-mate that he will have to adapt to Ferrari rather than vice versa.

"It will have to be Fernando who adapts himself to the Ferrari style and not the other way around," said Massa. "I know how Ferrari works, he has to learn. If I was going to Renault it would be up to me to adapt to them."Source :ph34r:

Massa was just speaking his mind about the crash gate....and the last sentence was a real fact...but 2007 proves it cannot be true always...before we jump into conclusions about what these press idiots put up, we have to understand what questions were asked which made him tell all these.

Edited by abbas_gear

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You forget that I'm an honorary baldy and know exactly what you're thinking :lol:

CAMERON DIAZ

Geez, will you stop thinking about her all the time damnit.

Exactly. Quite a few teams have run lighter when they are out of position on the grid, if nothing else, just to do something different to the cars around them. I still don't think the lighter strategy and the lucky crash would have made Alonso even remotely suspicious, because he just wouldn't concieve that a driver would crash on purpose. Well, that's my theory, anyway.

:loljump::lmavfa:

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[...]he just wouldn't concieve that a driver would crash on purpose.

Besides Senna, Prost and Schumi, you mean? :whistling:

What you probably meant is that Nando (or anybody else) wouldn't conceive Piquet capable of doing anything on purpose.

Never seemed the purposeful kind of guy to me.

He even neede his Dad's advice to ruin his own life.

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Thanks Tommy for the James Allen reference. It is indeed very fun to read. I wonder what the Alonso fans make of Allen's claim that 'many' drivers say privately that Alonso likely knew.

The advice Whitmarsh gives on team harmony for Ferrari next tear year is funny too: 'I’m sure as long as Fernando is winning everything will be fine'. :lol:

(Edit: I also don't really place too much weight on the argument that Alonso didn't need to know in advance for the plan to work.)

Edited by Max Mosley

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Besides Senna, Prost and Schumi, you mean? :whistling:

What you probably meant is that Nando (or anybody else) wouldn't conceive Piquet capable of doing anything on purpose.

Never seemed the purposeful kind of guy to me.

He even neede his Dad's advice to ruin his own life.

No, I meant crash into a wall on purpose :lol:

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The advice Whitmarsh gives on team harmony for Ferrari next tear year is funny too: 'I

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No, I meant crash into a wall on purpose :lol:

you did your homework, Renault fixed the race and you fixed you answer :P

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Thanks Tommy for the James Allen reference. It is indeed very fun to read. I wonder what the Alonso fans make of Allen's claim that 'many' drivers say privately that Alonso likely knew.

The advice Whitmarsh gives on team harmony for Ferrari next tear year is funny too: 'I’m sure as long as Fernando is winning everything will be fine'. :lol:

(Edit: I also don't really place too much weight on the argument that Alonso didn't need to know in advance for the plan to work.)

they won't see it B) they're blind, they just don't want to look in that direction, Massa (and others) it's saying the same I've been saying from the beggining and like you said Massa (and the others) are suppose to know more than us how F1 works, so if they say it, they know why they do it, they are not behind the TV/PC like us :P

EDIT: Schumikonen 1 ABFs 0 :naughty:

Edited by Schumikonen

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1)I think the team was punished because their employees did this mess and the rules states that whatever is done by any member of a team, that team will be responsible for that, but honestly speaking I don't rememeber that penalty. :blush:

2)I really think so too but as I pointed the difference with this one was the intention to alter it.

3)Maybe you're right about this but I consider LH a strong racer maybe I am mistaken in the meaning of strong racer but I do like what he can do with a car.

For a moment I thought you were Abbas and was delighted to see his IQ had improved tenfold. Oh well.

1. Drivers are punished regularly without penalty to the team. There is a reason why Alonso and McLaren were both crushed by FIA and, yes, in hindsight, the timing of the spygate burst that followed the event explains a lot (of FIA's actions). Do look into it if you want to have some retrospective fun.

2. The problem, again, is FIA. They have no credibility and no matter what issue comes up, it's foolish to believe a single word they say. So, was there a spygate? Who can say. Was there a crashgate? Who can say. One thing is certain, if FIA says so, it amounts to nothing much in my book as it regards to the x-gates and, rather, speaks to who knows what political maneouver to screw over someone or get a foot up on someone.

3. Hamilton is fun to watch. No mistake there. And he can deliver on occasion, true again. However, look into what was his best run of performances in F1 and you will come to his very first 5 or 6 races when he was no more than a xerox of Alonso (and Alonso beat him). It was only after Hamilton's first betrayal of McLaren in Monaco that the team turned against Alonso and, interestingly, Hamilton slowly came to settle into what he's been since, few interesting performances amid a great deal of blunder.

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So in short you admit that you do throw Sh#t on Lewis.....

Proof, where is the proof that Hamilton family is blocking Kimi? you and Alehop make countless posts about not just Lewis but also his dad....and when ever we ask you for the proof or a proper answer you keep dodging and in the end of the post you always say, that makes me smile....goofs, etc etc...we never get proper answers.....really sad that you do make some good posts here and you ruin all of them because of the unlimited hatred you have towards a family who have worked hard to get were they are now.

Secondly, Mclaren are still a racing team, and we all very well know that you and Alehop hate them to the core....and Alehop says that Lewis dad keeps blocking....it seems he thinks that Mercedes want Kimi but Hamiton's dad doesn't want him...etc etc....but who the **** are they to choose the drivers? you think a team like Mclaren would let two men stand who have come up with Mclaren's charity get in their way to deciding what is best for them? They have signed two strong drivers in the past and they wouldn't hesitate to do again and again....

If your requirements for absolute proof or whatever your fantasy contrives where consistent, they would have credibility. Since your demands are a joke, I do what is appropriate, that is, _smile_.

Besides, don't freak out. I did say it is a rumor... and an understandable one at that.

Regarding my sources, it will do you no good if I told you, but I feel a generousity you don't deserve. First, I have several friends that are Toyota engineers (main company, not in the F1 team) and that are also F1 die-hards so, consider how much the company grapevine gives. Second, I'm once removed from the pits. The son of a very good friend works as a mechanic for an F1 team. The third source I cannot reveal because the resident bigots would go nuts.

Last, McLaren has made a tragic decission investing it all in Hamilton. They have already lost 1 drivers WC and 2 constructors WC's... to date. It was no surprise to hear the comments of sheer relieve made by both McLaren's and Mercedes' big wigs when Hamilton, by pure chance, ended it up winning last year. Yep. A single step away from the edge of the cliff...

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I wonder what the Alonso fans make of Allen's claim that 'many' drivers say privately that Alonso likely knew.

they won't see it cool.gif they're blind, they just don't want to look in that direction, Massa (and others) it's saying the same I've been saying from the beggining and like you said Massa (and the others) are suppose to know more than us how F1 works, so if they say it, they know why they do it, they are not behind the TV/PC like us tongue.gif

I wonder WHO is 'many' drivers. eusa_think.gif

Maybe a pet name for a former driver like Piquet Snr. unsure.gif

Edited by AleHop

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you did your homework, Renault fixed the race and you fixed you answer :P

It's a pity you don't follow my lead then :whistling:

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