Insider 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 A bit more realistic. Brawn: Nico?? I guess he might be exchanged for Rubens McLaren: Sutil?? Williams: pretty accurate, Hulkenberg deserves a Williams seat Toyota: perfect Ferrari: spot on Renault: spot on RBR: spot on STR: probably will be but I don't think Alguersuari deserves a seat Lotus: Trulli?? Sauber: Naka?? I think he might go back to Japan & race in Super GT. Force India: Gary flippin Paffett?????????? Virgin/Manor: Anthony friggin Davidson??? Would like to see a Mick in F1 again Sutil is Hamilton's big mate and I can tell you he is pushing for him. He doesn't want Rosberg or KImi and he will get his way. Rubens is a done deal at Williams and BGP need someone who can set a car up. Paffett was talked about when the FI tie up with McLaren was brokered and it's under discussion again. Ant is very good on development, quick and cheap! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 Are they behind in funding? As the last I heard, Brawn had signed a contract with a big-money company for 2010, thus meaning they would be safe in the future. The money they will recieve from winning the championship ( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 With a more-or-less stable technical rules package and continued limited testing, I would expect the teams with sharp aero guys who can design a piece for the car and have it work straight away to be on top. A lot is being said in the articles I'm reading about how the teams with all the advanced simulator equipment will be at the top, but I would remind everyone that BMW have some of the most advanced gear around...and they did squat with it. I would guess McLaren and Red Bull to be a the sharp-end of the grid next season with Force India right behind (I'm basing this off of their good luck at rapidly designing a car update and it running well straight away). Brawn is not the place to be unless you want to fight for 4th place (as Steve has pointed out, their advantage is gone). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 Sutil is Hamilton's big mate and I can tell you he is pushing for him. He doesn't want Rosberg or KImi and he will get his way. Rubens is a done deal at Williams and BGP need someone who can set a car up. Paffett was talked about when the FI tie up with McLaren was brokered and it's under discussion again. Ant is very good on development, quick and cheap! I don't think Hamilton has too much say in who Mclaren sign. If he did, Mclaren would in fact keep Heikki in the team! As it stands, Mclaren want the two best drivers available; I don't think Sutil qualifies as one of the best drivers available by a long way (sure, he's quick at times, but he's not as proven as Trulli, Glock, Button, Raikkonen et al). Certainly it would be an odd decision if Mclaren signed Sutil (who never looked anywhere near as strong as Lewis in their former experience as team mates) in replacement of Kova (who never looked anywhere near as strong as Lewis in their experience as team mates). There would be no point in doing that - not even a monetary one. The reason Mclaren are dumping Heikki (if indeed they do) is because they want a better driver in the car, it is just a bonus whether the new driver gets on with Lewis or not. Rosberg goes to Brawn because he doesn't want to get beaten by his good friend Hamilton, and because Mercedes and Ross Brawn are partial to a fast German - I don't think that decision has anything to do with LH & co. Similarly, I think the only stumbling block for hiring Kimi is a matter of payment, not some veto by Lewis. If Lewis could handle Alonso in his first year, I think he can handle anyone in his fourth year, and while he would prefer a weaker team mate (who wouldn't?), I doubt it's a big issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 Sutil is Hamilton's big mate and I can tell you he is pushing for him. He doesn't want Rosberg or KImi and he will get his way. Rubens is a done deal at Williams and BGP need someone who can set a car up. Paffett was talked about when the FI tie up with McLaren was brokered and it's under discussion again. Ant is very good on development, quick and cheap! What about Heidfeld? He's German, he's fast and he finishes races, which isn't always the case for Sutil. Sutil has a lot to prove in my mind yet before he deserves a top seat. His season in 2009 hasn't exactly been brilliant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 What about Heidfeld? He's German, he's fast and he finishes races, which isn't always the case for Sutil. Sutil has a lot to prove in my mind yet before he deserves a top seat. His season in 2009 hasn't exactly been brilliant. You could teach Adrian not to crash. You will never teach Nick how to go fast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 You could teach Adrian not to crash. You will never teach Nick how to go fast. Ouch. Could anyboidy teach Sutil not to prance like a maiden in distress? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schumikonen 2 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 You could teach Adrian not to crash. You will never teach Nick how to go fast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted October 27, 2009 I don't think Hamilton has too much say in who Mclaren sign. If he did, Mclaren would in fact keep Heikki in the team! As it stands, Mclaren want the two best drivers available; I don't think Sutil qualifies as one of the best drivers available by a long way (sure, he's quick at times, but he's not as proven as Trulli, Glock, Button, Raikkonen et al). Certainly it would be an odd decision if Mclaren signed Sutil (who never looked anywhere near as strong as Lewis in their former experience as team mates) in replacement of Kova (who never looked anywhere near as strong as Lewis in their experience as team mates). There would be no point in doing that - not even a monetary one. The reason Mclaren are dumping Heikki (if indeed they do) is because they want a better driver in the car, it is just a bonus whether the new driver gets on with Lewis or not. Rosberg goes to Brawn because he doesn't want to get beaten by his good friend Hamilton, and because Mercedes and Ross Brawn are partial to a fast German - I don't think that decision has anything to do with LH & co. Similarly, I think the only stumbling block for hiring Kimi is a matter of payment, not some veto by Lewis. If Lewis could handle Alonso in his first year, I think he can handle anyone in his fourth year, and while he would prefer a weaker team mate (who wouldn't?), I doubt it's a big issue. I personally don't give a monkeys who Macca sign. I've based all my listings on rumour, conjecture and paddock gossip as it shifts daily. I agree with Mike - Heidfeld would be my choice - he's reliable. quick and virtually anonymous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 Ouch. Could anyboidy teach Sutil not to prance like a maiden in distress? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 Ouch. Could anyboidy teach Sutil not to prance like a maiden in distress? I can't wait for that boyt to take the centre step on the podium. We have had the 'Schumi leap', how about the 'Suti mince'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 Wednesday is upon us and a couple of things came past my ears last evening. Rumours abound that AABAR, an Abu Dhabi, state-owned corporation will act as proxy stakeholder of 75% of BGP, on behalf of Diamler AG until the Mercedes/McLaren tie-up expires in 2011. My understanding is that this is rock solid info and that senior Daimler managers will be meeting with both Ross Brawn and AABAR reps in Abu Dhabie this weekend. I believe Haug will push for a German in the second seat at Macca and I'm going to choose Heidfeld over Glock and Sutil. There could be some more fine tuning with Rosberg taking the McLaren seat and Heidfeld going to Brawn - after all, anything is possible. Mercedes Brawn | Button/Rosberg Team McLaren | Hamilton/Heidfeld Williams Cosworth | Barrichello/Hulkenberg Team Toyota | Glock/Kobayashi Scuderia Ferrari | Massa/Alonso Megafon Renault | Kubica/Kovalainen Red Bull Renault | Vettel/Webber STR Ferrari | Buemi/Alguersuera Lotus Cosworth | Trulli/Fauzy Qadbak Sauber Ferrari | R Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 I can't wait for that boyt to take the centre step on the podium. We have had the 'Schumi leap', how about the 'Suti mince'? Sutil mince.... you know, I bought some of that from my local supermarket. Made a meal with it - cooked it with a dash of rosewater, a few pink marshmallows and some marigold petals. Funny thing is, after eating it I got this strange craving to watch Annie, listen to Barbra Streisand and eat bratwurst.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medilloni 6 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 OK, I have a soft spot for them I'll admit. Lot's of talk about Brawn not being the place to be next year, and honestly, I'm curious to see how the wind blows with them. I mentioned last winter when they were on their arse, that one of my customers is a guy that's one of their suppliers, and his thoughts from comments he's heard make a great deal of sense.... And yes, 'sources' are bloody annoying, but he's the only one I've got Comments about Brawn tend to centre around how much effort went into this year's car, "a year head start, no wonder they're so good" etc. It was nothing like as simple as that. Their base line was so poor, and their calibration systems (not just tunnel, jigs they use too) were so fcuked up, that the first 5 months were spent catching up and simulating to a (theoretical) level that would have seen them (theoretically) well up the grid in '08. They achieved these levels with virtually no testing to confirm calibrations - they got it right without thousands of kilometers of testing. Only at this point could they start on the '09 choice of direction - they had 3 main routes to follow, 2 for a KERS car and one for a conventional car. When Honda pulled the plug, they chose to run with the conventional car (fro obvious reasons). My point here is that they didn't have the advantage some might imagine, if say, they had the McLaren as a baseline, then spent a year developing it, I'd agree with the "but they had a coons age to get it right" gang. Then along came the engine problem... The Merc lump was supplied, and then they found the first problem - 15mm would have to be removed from the back of the tub. The weight distribution was massively affected, the c of g was badly affected, the gearbox is set to work slower than it's built for (which we've seen problems with anyway),they were severely hampered with their choices of where ballast could go.... so, this car is an almighty c#ck-up in F1 engineering terms. Because of all of that, and the fact that next year's car is so well advanced (a huge amount of their budget has gone into this since July), I think you're all wrong about next year BUT............ ........Then we have the budget problem that's been mentioned here. And I really know nothing other than the guys at the factory are chipper about what they have been told (means nothing with sh1t management I know), but one thing has set the place on fire, and zat's ze meetinks at ze factory mit men in suitz, zat only arrive in Mercs und tork vunny. Just one fly in the ointment stops me making predictions just now, and that is that Ross is as tight as a duck's arse with money, and it seems some of the rumours re unhappy techy bunnies could be true. IF they can sort that problem, I'm going for a top three in 2010, both WCC and WDC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 OK, I have a soft spot for them I'll admit. Lot's of talk about Brawn not being the place to be next year, and honestly, I'm curious to see how the wind blows with them. I mentioned last winter when they were on their arse, that one of my customers is a guy that's one of their suppliers, and his thoughts from comments he's heard make a great deal of sense.... And yes, 'sources' are bloody annoying, but he's the only one I've got Comments about Brawn tend to centre around how much effort went into this year's car, "a year head start, no wonder they're so good" etc. It was nothing like as simple as that. Their base line was so poor, and their calibration systems (not just tunnel, jigs they use too) were so fcuked up, that the first 5 months were spent catching up and simulating to a (theoretical) level that would have seen them (theoretically) well up the grid in '08. They achieved these levels with virtually no testing to confirm calibrations - they got it right without thousands of kilometers of testing. Only at this point could they start on the '09 choice of direction - they had 3 main routes to follow, 2 for a KERS car and one for a conventional car. When Honda pulled the plug, they chose to run with the conventional car (fro obvious reasons). My point here is that they didn't have the advantage some might imagine, if say, they had the McLaren as a baseline, then spent a year developing it, I'd agree with the "but they had a coons age to get it right" gang. Then along came the engine problem... The Merc lump was supplied, and then they found the first problem - 15mm would have to be removed from the back of the tub. The weight distribution was massively affected, the c of g was badly affected, the gearbox is set to work slower than it's built for (which we've seen problems with anyway),they were severely hampered with their choices of where ballast could go.... so, this car is an almighty c#ck-up in F1 engineering terms. Because of all of that, and the fact that next year's car is so well advanced (a huge amount of their budget has gone into this since July), I think you're all wrong about next year BUT............ ........Then we have the budget problem that's been mentioned here. And I really know nothing other than the guys at the factory are chipper about what they have been told (means nothing with sh1t management I know), but one thing has set the place on fire, and zat's ze meetinks at ze factory mit men in suitz, zat only arrive in Mercs und tork vunny. Just one fly in the ointment stops me making predictions just now, and that is that Ross is as tight as a duck's arse with money, and it seems some of the rumours re unhappy techy bunnies could be true. IF they can sort that problem, I'm going for a top three in 2010, both WCC and WDC. All very interesting. To be honest though, even I, as one of the doomsayers would have a punt on a top three. Surely, if faith is had in Brawn's depth of ability and it's potential coffers, you should be putting money on a repeat of this year? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 Sutil mince.... you know, I bought some of that from my local supermarket. Made a meal with it - cooked it with a dash of rosewater, a few pink marshmallows and some marigold petals. Funny thing is, after eating it I got this strange craving to watch Annie, listen to Barbra Streisand and eat bratwurst.... Go, girlfriend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 I like your pairings and I'll throw my thoughts into it. Mercedes Brawn | Button/Rosberg Assuming the car will be inherently the same as this year, it will need a bit of smooth driving in the hot races and a bit of aggression in the cold ones. Button has shown an inability to drive aggressive enough in the cold races and has suffered. By contrast, Rosberg is a bit like Rubens only moreso; he's aggressive. Rosberg will be strong in the cold but can he be smooth in the hot? That's the question. If the answer is yes, then I see Button being beaten by Rosberg. As for Brawn, the rules stability will help them but their sometimes good, sometimes bad aero department will be their Achilles Heel. Team McLaren | Hamilton/Heidfeld I hope this pairing will prove true. I like Heidfeld at McLaren. Unlike most, I rate Ickle-Nicky pretty highly. He's fast, consistent and has a good work ethic. He'll surprise Hamilton on a few occasions and will be closer to the boy-god than Hickie was. In my opinion, McLaren are the strongest team currently out there. They have proven that they can bounce back from technical foibles pretty quickly without any real testing and aren't really failing in any one area of their car. They'll not stumble over having to redesign their car around the missing KERS. Williams Cosworth | Barrichello/Hulkenberg Oh dear. Team Toyota | Glock/Kobayashi So Trulli is truly gone from Toyota? Unfortunate. He sucked in races, but he gave a good one-lap baseline for the car's speed and was moderately consistent. Without him, this is a weak pairing. Not enough experience. As a result, the team may be left chasing figments of their driver's lack-of-imaginations. Scuderia Ferrari | Massa/Alonso Massa fires off a shot at Alonso concerning his involvement in the Renault race fixing extravaganza. This is telling. Massa is getting his first shot in, hoping to destabilize Alonso early. This quite frankly won't work. Alonso is faster, more confident, more experienced.....just more than Massa in just about every area (and no doubt Massa knows it). If Ferrari listen to the two-times World Champion on car set-up, they'll move up the grid. Megafon Renault | Kubica/Kovalainen Hickie will be struggling with the car. It's likely been designed around Alonso and he likes an understeery car with a goodly amount of rear weight distribution. Kubica, on the other hand, will love it. He drives more like Alonso than any of the other drivers out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 Red Bull Renault | Vettel/Webber With his leg fully-healed, I'll go out on a ...er.... limb and say Webber will overshadow Vettel. In on-track penalties. STR Ferrari | Buemi/Alguersuera Why is this team still here? If it were a true small team, I'd be cheering. I'll not cheer for a Red Bull Driver Development Team. STR belong in a lower formula. Lotus Cosworth | Trulli/Fauzy I have no idea, but starting a team with Trulli will reap benefits if the team are paying attention. As I've said before, he's a good indicator of where a car is at, on a single lap basis. Qadbak Sauber Ferrari | R Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medilloni 6 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 All very interesting. To be honest though, even I, as one of the doomsayers would have a punt on a top three. Surely, if faith is had in Brawn's depth of ability and it's potential coffers, you should be putting money on a repeat of this year? No Steve, my two bets on Brawn were half-laugh-half-once-every-ten-years-treat (really, I never bet!), any more... and where do you stop? Mrs Meds thinks I'm a friggin genius with the dosh from this year, she says the same as you, but F1 is too effing corrupt unpredictable to bet too often Seriously, one of the main reasons I don't think they will slip into the midfield (longterm) is simply because Brawn has only ever known success, and will do whatever it takes to get out of it, he's Schumi-esque in his hunt for success - Williams could do to take some lessons from him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted October 28, 2009 For the massive 0 people who might care, here's my list: Ferrari Massa and Alonso McLaren Hamilton and Heidfeld Renault Kubica and Kovalainen Toyota Raikkonen and Glock Red Bull Vettel and Webber Williams Barrichello and Hulkenberg Brawn Button and Rosberg Toro Rosso Buemi and Alguersuari Force India Sutil and Liuzzi Lotus Trulli and Fauzy Campos Di Grassi and Senna Manor Parente and Jani US F1 I really have no idea......so Summerton and Busch? Qadbak Sauber Won't even happen probably, so Nakajima and Piquet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewisthegreat2 0 Report post Posted October 29, 2009 US F1 I really have no idea......so Summerton and Busch? Just for the record, there is absolutely 0 chance of Busch racing for US F1 in 2010. The team would like to do a test or two with him, but have no interest in him actually racing until 2011 at earliest, and Busch has no interest in them period. And they aren't even real. Wurz has given up on them, stating that he doesn't think they'll make it, and all of their employees (including the team manager) are on monthly contracts to ease the laying off process when they release all 60 employees when the team doesn't happen. On the off chance they somehow stumble onto the grid, they'll probably do so with zero US American drivers, the way it should have been all along. It's confirmed they need a pay driver (and a race shop and a car and a team and a budget), so expect Roldán Rodríguez or Nelson to be paired with another pay driver like Rodríguez or Piquet. Or just expect US F1 to submit the wind tunnel model they won't complete in time for the Bahrain Grand Prix as the IndyCar chassis of the future, and get rejected because the IRL's folding anyway, and they'll all fold together and go to NASCAR. Team US SC (stock car), coming to a merry-go-round near you. Or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted October 29, 2009 I'm feeling increasingly confident about my predictions, so I think it's time to unveil them. McLaren - Roe/Wade Ferrari - Cosmo/Dibbs Red Bull - Bert/Ernie Toro Rosso - Brad/Angelina Williams - Ike/Tina Renault - Hale/Pace Brawn - Chas/Dave Toyota - Laurel/Hardy Force India - Daniels/Baker BMW Sauber - Tom/Jerry Lotus - Morecambe/Wise Campos - Sonny/Cher Manor - Fry/Laurie US F1 - Abbot/Costello EDIT - swapped the McLaren and USF1 drivers over - if there are going to be fireworks anywhere it'll be in the McLaren garage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted October 29, 2009 I'm feeling increasingly confident about my predictions, so I think it's time to unveil them. Only thing that worries me is that 8 of your drivers are dead, passed away, stiffs, bereft of life, joined the choir invisible, etc.... Does this imply some form of cheating (remote control?) or have you discovered a means of re-animation? Zombie-F1! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted October 29, 2009 Only thing that worries me is that 8 of your drivers are dead, passed away, stiffs, bereft of life, joined the choir invisible, etc.... Does this imply some form of cheating (remote control?) or have you discovered a means of re-animation? Zombie-F1! have you not seen what they can do with cgi these days? EDIT - hmmm - now you mention it... 6 of my drivers are either animated characters or puppets too - might need a rethink. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted October 29, 2009 okay okay - revised driver line up thanks to mr pedantic-aenioni-face (removing wholey or half dead pairings and animated characters or puppets) McLaren - Roe/Wade Cheech/Chong Ferrari - Cosmo/Dibbs Madonna/Ritchie Red Bull - Bert/Ernie Ant/Dec Toro Rosso - Brad/Angelina Williams - Ike/Tina Penn/Teller Renault - Hale/Pace Brawn - Chas/Dave Toyota - Laurel/Hardy Vera/Jack Force India - Daniels/Baker BMW Sauber - Tom/Jerry Kylie/Jason Lotus - Morecambe/Wise Daphne/Celeste Campos - Sonny/Cher Putin/Medvedev Manor - Fry/Laurie US F1 - Abbot/Costello Tucker/Zammo Okay - that's it now - final 100% definite, unquestionably correct lineup for 2010 - anyone who disagrees is an idiot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites