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Button's visit to Woking is certainly ominous. Whether he just wished to demonstrate to Brawn that he is serious about being paid a salary consummate with his current market worth or not, rarely has a member of the 'opposition' been invited into the camp of his rivals. There is real substance here. If Ross had the money, the deal would have been done and dusted by now. That's my view. £6m may buy you a rising star like Kubica but it is way of the mark for a ten-year veteran at the top of his game with a WDC under his belt. The other point is, now the whole thing has become public, Jens will look like a twat even if Brawn relent and give him £8m. That too, is far too small a sum for the new WDC and undervalues him by at least 50%, in my view. Not that he will care much, he simply wants to drive the best car available to him next year. Will that be an MP-25 or a BGP002? Ross has talked up the BGP002 as being well-advanced in terms of development, indeed to the detriment of the current car in the mid-season races. McLaren will be doing the same, though it is clear that a huge amount of resources were poured into the 09 car in the second half of the season. Which way should the Frome Flyer jump? Will JB get equal kit at Macca? Will the young gun drive him right to the pinnacle of his talent or will he take clear No.1 status at BGP to swop tenths with Nico and depend on Brawn's substantial strategic nous for his results. He's on a mission - he wants back-to-back WDCs - one wrong move and he's blown it. What a conundrum.

Certainly interesting. My money is on Jenson still staying at Brawn. He has already demonstrated that he understands the virtues in taking a pay cut. He did it last year and ended up with a peach of a drive. He may want more money but he's not just suddenly turned into a cruise a collector; he'll still want the best ride available to him. McLaren may indeed produce a great car for next season but he still has to beat Lewis and I don't see that happening. His best bet is to count on team continuity giving him an edge over Nico (who, let's face it could still beat Jenson too).

I don't see any mind games going on here by Ross either. If Ross didn't want him, he would have said so. Equally, if the cash was there to pay him what he wants, he would pay it. It's not such a bad deal on the table for Jenson. I would take it and quickly, or he'll end up in a sh!tbox, just like Damon did after he got greedy and delusional.

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If a team is not willing to pay a driver what that driver deserve it is because they don't have the confidence in that driver, in Brawn case I think they are betting on another driver to do the job next season and that is why they are not willing to invest in Button.

The same apply to Kimi/Mclaren, I think Mclaren it's not very confident about Kimi and/or they think they have the driver to do the job (I think Hamilton can lead the team to another title they just need a good driver who can finish in the points to help them with the WCC) and that is why they offer so little money for Kimi's service.

Brawn must have a driver signed for 2010 and they think that driver will be a big improvement for the team so in their eyes it would be a waste of money to pay more to Button when they are already betting on the new driver.

I disagree entirely with that view. Nico will not come cheap - I'd say around

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Certainly interesting. My money is on Jenson still staying at Brawn. He has already demonstrated that he understands the virtues in taking a pay cut. He did it last year and ended up with a peach of a drive. He may want more money but he's not just suddenly turned into a cruise a collector; he'll still want the best ride available to him. McLaren may indeed produce a great car for next season but he still has to beat Lewis and I don't see that happening. His best bet is to count on team continuity giving him an edge over Nico (who, let's face it could still beat Jenson too).

I don't see any mind games going on here by Ross either. If Ross didn't want him, he would have said so. Equally, if the cash was there to pay him what he wants, he would pay it. It's not such a bad deal on the table for Jenson. I would take it and quickly, or he'll end up in a sh!tbox, just like Damon did after he got greedy and delusional.

I have to agree JB cannot dawdle. If he went to Macca, I'd put a clause in the contract that gets Hamilton Snr. out of the garage, if I were him. Lewis's style will not suit tyre conservation and there could be a ding-dong battle if the chips fell that way. The sooner he nails a ride, the better.

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I still think Button will go to Brawn cos if there's 2 #1 drivers @ McLaren, it's gonna be 2007 all over again!

Yup!

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Good sources inside the sport are saying Button's visit to Macca was entirely to discuss whether the development of the MP-25 could be fashioned to accommodate his driving style. That will be some challenge for the team - no two pilots could be more different in their driving styles. There are no problems with money nor with Mercedes. Jenson wants a race-winning car. I understand he is not entirely convinced that BGP have the cash to develop the BGP002 all throughout the season. Bernie does not want two WDCs in the same team and is keen to have Brawn sort out their differences with JB. I expect an announcement by mid-week.

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I still think Button will go to Brawn cos if there's 2 #1 drivers @ McLaren, it's gonna be 2007 all over again!

That's assuming Button is as good as Alonso.

Question. You are Stefano and you want a driver to 'do a Michael' for you after a patchy period. You could have Button or Alonso, who would you pick? Who's gonna deliver consistently, day in, day out with no wobbles?

I would rather pick up a few broken toys than see them all travelling safer but slower.

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After 4 races in McM Jenson will be screaming Calimero!


Brawn probably thinks that any driver with so superior car would win WDC this year, so almost anyone can replace JB. In line with that BGP is not offering too much money to JB, most probably the marginally larger amount of money as they are willing to give to Rosberg.

I were JB I would not go to McM. I would stay with Brawn, because Brawn is the only team to have chance to repeat WDC. There is absolutely no chance that JB would be able to beat Hamilton in McM for at least 2 good reasons: 1. Lewis is better driver, 2. JB is outsider at McM - equal treatment of drivers is fairytale.


Kimi in McM:
- epic battle expectations with Ferrari pair before testing and season start; later depends on results
- no internal turmoils
- bigger dispersion of points for WDC
- safer WCC bid

JB in McM
- two WDC in same team (only UK press would go nuts with it)
- Calimero - lot's of internal problems
- less dispersion of WDC points - LH is getting 2/3 of points
- WCC likely but depends on JB ability to deliver under unfavorable conditions inside team

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After 4 races in McM Jenson will be screaming Calimero!

Brawn probably thinks that any driver with so superior car would win WDC this year, so almost anyone can replace JB. In line with that BGP is not offering too much money to JB, most probably the marginally larger amount of money as they are willing to give to Rosberg.

I were JB I would not go to McM. I would stay with Brawn, because Brawn is the only team to have chance to repeat WDC. There is absolutely no chance that JB would be able to beat Hamilton in McM for at least 2 good reasons: 1. Lewis is better driver, 2. JB is outsider at McM - equal treatment of drivers is fairytale.

Kimi in McM:

- epic battle expectations with Ferrari pair before testing and season start; later depends on results

- no internal turmoils

- bigger dispersion of points for WDC

- safer WCC bid

JB in McM

- two WDC in same team (only UK press would go nuts with it)

- Calimero - lot's of internal problems

- less dispersion of WDC points - LH is getting 2/3 of points

- WCC likely but depends on JB ability to deliver under unfavorable conditions inside team

Point 1: Barrichello couldn't do it and he was driving out of his skin! Alonso could have and Hamilton, perhaps, if he didn't choke. No one else on the grid has their Sh#t together properly yet.

Point 2: JB won the WDC by 15 points - Hamilton by 1 - and that's contentious.

Stop knocking this guy. He won the thing by a country mile in a highly competitive season plus a poor second-half car and showed great tenacity and courage in doing so. I hope he stays at Brawn and that Brawn can afford stay competitive in F1. He's not scared of Hamilton and nor should he be - he's a superb driver.

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Point 1: Barrichello couldn't do it and he was driving out of his skin! Alonso could have and Hamilton, perhaps, if he didn't choke. No one else on the grid has their Sh#t together properly yet.

Point 2: JB won the WDC by 15 points - Hamilton by 1 - and that's contentious.

Stop knocking this guy. He won the thing by a country mile in a highly competitive season plus a poor second-half car and showed great tenacity and courage in doing so. I hope he stays at Brawn and that Brawn can afford stay competitive in F1. He's not scared of Hamilton and nor should he be - he's a superb driver.

I think wapi makes a good point and your counter argument is a little subjective. Barrichello is hardly the greatest yardstick to measure Jenson by; he was never the best(or in the running to be considered the best out there) and is in the very late afternoon of his career.

Alonso and Hamilton, by contrst are already former world champions and so easier to judge that they may be better than Jenson. But, as we know, merely very good drivers in great cars are a more successful package than great drivers in merely good cars. For that reason, I agree with wapi that there may be a good number of drivers who are capable of doing what Jenson did, and what he is currently capable of delivering. Rosberg is a good case in point. He has matured, he is fast and he doesn' often make mistakes, much like Jenson.

Telemetry talks, not a bunch of know all forum gawpers. Brawn knows the true worth of Button and how good he really is. He also knows about the other drivers, how good they really all are and how to judge them, with out emotion, against Jenson. I bet he's up there but I bet he's not one of the best either.

It's not knocking Jenson or his achievement, and you shouldn't deem it that way either. The very best drivers should always be scrutinized and this is a good place to do it.

On your second point, Hamilton may have only beaten Alonso by one point and Jenson beat Rubens by fifteen but that means nothing, only that Alonso is probably better than Rubens, hardly a shocking revelation.

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Point 1: Barrichello couldn't do it and he was driving out of his skin! Alonso could have and Hamilton, perhaps, if he didn't choke. No one else on the grid has their Sh#t together properly yet.

Point 2: JB won the WDC by 15 points - Hamilton by 1 - and that's contentious.

Stop knocking this guy. He won the thing by a country mile in a highly competitive season plus a poor second-half car and showed great tenacity and courage in doing so. I hope he stays at Brawn and that Brawn can afford stay competitive in F1. He's not scared of Hamilton and nor should he be - he's a superb driver.

I cant belive that you typed that, especially considering the difference between the performance of Jenson's and Lewis's nearest rivals cars for a significant amount of time...

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I did not say that JB is not worthy WDC. He deserved it, like any other WDC in history. He collected the most points.

My opinion is that he would not get another chance driving alongside Lewis in McM. Staying in Brawn gives him best chance to repeat it.

Comparing point differences is hardly relevant for anything. Point difference can come from various reasons and some of those are not under driver control thus it unfair to attribute it completely to driver performance.

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I am not a Hamilton devotee. He may get better, he may be a flash in the pan. I think the latter is probably true. I thought 'great' drivers were meant to be able to win races in bad cars. Or, at least that is what some of us 'forum gawkers' would seem to believe. He seemed to be doing a lot of dummy spitting when his car was driving like a shed rather than wrestling into the points as Button did on all but one occasion. I will admit that Jenson got a little childish too but I believe he had cause, after winning six out of the first seven races. He's not the best driver out there but he's certainly the prime, all-round package. He has something that Rosberg and Webber haven't yet acquired, Vettel and Kubica will perhaps eventually find in abundance and Heidfeld has probably lost - getting used to winning. The Woking visit was probably just a joust at Brawn. If Ross didn't rate him, he'd hardly be going around saying Button was 99% signed. McLaren certainly wouldn't be giving him equal equipment but they'd happily pay the asking price to keep him out of play in the WDC and help them grab the WCC. With regard to my remark that Hamilton's WDC was 'contentious'. I was merely referring to 'Crashgate' and the fall out from that.

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I'm led to believe that any talks Lotus had been having with Jarno Trulli have stalled.

Trulli was always scheduled to have his NASCAR test this year, but his stance has changed. At first, he was sure he'd return to F1 in 2010 and was only doing it for fun. Now, he's going about complimenting NASCAR, talking about keeping his doors open, suggesting that his business interests in Europe don't mean much, and that he loves living in the US (he has a flat in Miami). One has to wonder if he's losing faith in getting the Lotus seat.

Meanwhile, it's been reported that Lotus are talking to Jacques Villeneuve and Kamui Kobayashi. That's not a bad driver lineup for a new team.

A NASCAR move might make sense for Jarno, too. He's not going to be winning grands prix with Lotus, but he certainly has a shot on the road course races in NASCAR. Everything's starting to align for him; he started following in 2007 when Montoya came over, and now that Montoya has been in championship contention up to this point, he realizes he can have a restarted career in stock cars if he takes a few years to learn them. It just so happened that he conveniently had a "gift" test from Toyota, and that he lost his F1 drive...

Timo Glock and his manager seem to have given up on Renault. They're talking to Manor right now, and plan to decide which of the three teams they've spoken with they'll race for.

I wonder if Alguersuari would go to Campos if he loses his STR drive (which he might, though it's unlikely). I haven't read anything about that, though. He has a personal sponsorship deal with SEAT now, so I guess we could see him in WTCC if he's off the F1 grid. I'm not sure if I care if he stays or goes. If he does go, I'd like to see him have another shot at it after doing GP2. I don't think he's a bad driver, though I do think he's an arrogant prick. He has time to grow up, I suppose.

Robert Wickens had the LOL of the day, saying he thinks he can be on the F1 grid in 2010. Right. One win in Formula 2 and no sponsorship. Not happening. IndyCar beckons. I don't dislike Wickens, but it's silly to think he could be in Formula 1.

Pedro de la Rosa and Vitaly Petrov for Team US F1? Just throwing it out there. It's probably wrong. And of course it assumes they run. Both drivers have funding, both drivers have spoken with the team, and neither driver probably has many other options beyond Ken and Peter.

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That's assuming Button is as good as Alonso.

Question. You are Stefano and you want a driver to 'do a Michael' for you after a patchy period. You could have Button or Alonso, who would you pick? Who's gonna deliver consistently, day in, day out with no wobbles?

I would rather pick up a few broken toys than see them all travelling safer but slower.

Give Alonso a Brawn & he'd make Button look like Anthony Davidson but the thing is, both Button & Alonso were World Champions in 2009 & 2006 respectively. If Button were to race with McLaren in 2010 he, like Alonso in 2007, will not like the fact that he'll be the #2 @ the team cos he's the world champion & should be the #1 driver in the team & not on the car.

That's why I think if Button moves to McLaren, he's basically committing suicide!

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I am not a Hamilton devotee. He may get better, he may be a flash in the pan. I think the latter is probably true. I thought 'great' drivers were meant to be able to win races in bad cars. Or, at least that is what some of us 'forum gawkers' would seem to believe. He seemed to be doing a lot of dummy spitting when his car was driving like a shed rather than wrestling into the points as Button did on all but one occasion. I will admit that Jenson got a little childish too but I believe he had cause, after winning six out of the first seven races. He's not the best driver out there but he's certainly the prime, all-round package. He has something that Rosberg and Webber haven't yet acquired, Vettel and Kubica will perhaps eventually find in abundance and Heidfeld has probably lost - getting used to winning. The Woking visit was probably just a joust at Brawn. If Ross didn't rate him, he'd hardly be going around saying Button was 99% signed. McLaren certainly wouldn't be giving him equal equipment but they'd happily pay the asking price to keep him out of play in the WDC and help them grab the WCC. With regard to my remark that Hamilton's WDC was 'contentious'. I was merely referring to 'Crashgate' and the fall out from that.

Hamilton has impressed me immensely this year. He was all at sea at the beginning of the year having been used to having great cars. He was visibly strained and not atall happy. Who would be though? He's a racing driver. He craves the opportunity to win everywhere. I don't think any of his reactions this year were dummy spitting. He pulled the team together by forcefully requesting more performance and rewarding the team with some stunning drives as the car got better. I would argue that his wins were with a car that wasn't the best out there. It's a little naive to suggest that great drivers should be able to win in bad cars. That hasn't happened for decades. The most recent examples as exceptions to that are Spain '96 and Donny '93, but generally speaking we are firmly in the age where car performance is king. The difference in driver performance has closed up. We are not in the days of when a Fangio or an Ascari could close down a one minute lead. They were mighty beyond comparison. Nowadays, although we probably don't like to think so, driver differences are tiny, it's down to the minutae.

Hamilton didn't have the car that Button had all year long so your suggestion that Button somehow got more out of his car than Lewis did doesn't make sense, to me. I would say that in fact, the times when Button 'wrestled his car into the points' he was in fact underperforming, He should have been winning or getting podiums. He certainly made heavy weather of things at times.

Lewis has come of age this year. He understands what is to develop a difficult car, whilst driving brilliantly and gelling his team. He can handle dissapointment philosophically and remain positive. He has reminded me this year many times of Michael in, say, '96 or '97.

Let's see if Nico does go to Brawn. If he does, I predict he will beat Button because he can only get better and he is already the real deal. He has progressed gently and methodically with clearly some brilliant management from his father. I can't wait to see what he will do with a competitive car.

Mark, on the other hand can only go down from here. Vettel is to strong, too driven. He has handled Mark all year, even when Mark has beaten him. He has handled the defeat like water off a ducks back. I haven't seen Vettel rattled by Mark's flashes of speed. He know where he is going. All you need to know about that kid was demonstrated by his utter dismay at Brazil. Many drivers would have been in acceptance of defeat at the title. but he was totally gutted. It means so much to him. I predict that in the future Mark will always talk about how his leg ended his dream of dominance.

Meanwhile, it's been reported that Lotus are talking to Jacques Villeneuve and Kamui Kobayashi. That's not a bad driver lineup for a new team.

:lol: Thanks, I needed that.

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I am not a Hamilton devotee. He may get better, he may be a flash in the pan. I think the latter is probably true. I thought 'great' drivers were meant to be able to win races in bad cars. Or, at least that is what some of us 'forum gawkers' would seem to believe. He seemed to be doing a lot of dummy spitting when his car was driving like a shed rather than wrestling into the points as Button did on all but one occasion. I will admit that Jenson got a little childish too but I believe he had cause, after winning six out of the first seven races. He's not the best driver out there but he's certainly the prime, all-round package. He has something that Rosberg and Webber haven't yet acquired, Vettel and Kubica will perhaps eventually find in abundance and Heidfeld has probably lost - getting used to winning. The Woking visit was probably just a joust at Brawn. If Ross didn't rate him, he'd hardly be going around saying Button was 99% signed. McLaren certainly wouldn't be giving him equal equipment but they'd happily pay the asking price to keep him out of play in the WDC and help them grab the WCC. With regard to my remark that Hamilton's WDC was 'contentious'. I was merely referring to 'Crashgate' and the fall out from that.

You don't need to be a devotee to notice how well he performed with a car that was not the best out there, he infact did win a few races, While Button did struggle with the best car, Barichello's performance proves it. Give them Lewis and Button the same car, Lewis will trash him anyday, anywhere.

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Good sources inside the sport are saying Button's visit to Macca was entirely to discuss whether the development of the MP-25 could be fashioned to accommodate his driving style. That will be some challenge for the team - no two pilots could be more different in their driving styles. There are no problems with money nor with Mercedes. Jenson wants a race-winning car. I understand he is not entirely convinced that BGP have the cash to develop the BGP002 all throughout the season. Bernie does not want two WDCs in the same team and is keen to have Brawn sort out their differences with JB. I expect an announcement by mid-week.

You mean that Kimi is not going to Mclaren? I also read this about Bernie but I don't know what is he thinking about Kimi who said he will only drive for Mclaren and they already have a champion there.

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Point 2: JB won the WDC by 15 points - Hamilton by 1 - and that's contentious.

That doesn't mean anything and if it does it is saying that Hamilton can cope with pressure a lot better than Button and IMO Hamilton is a lot better that Button.

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With regard to my remark that Hamilton's WDC was 'contentious'. I was merely referring to 'Crashgate' and the fall out from that.

You can't say that. Decision teams make are partially based on the championship standings. If the result of Singapore 08 race was different, strategies the teams used in remaining races may have been different thus results would be god knows what. Only result of last race of the season can be altered without considering ripple effects.

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You can't say that. Decision teams make are partially based on the championship standings. If the result of Singapore 08 race was different, strategies the teams used in remaining races may have been different thus results would be god knows what. Only result of last race of the season can be altered without considering ripple effects.

I was merely pointing out what other drivers have said in regard to that - specifically Massa.

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You mean that Kimi is not going to Mclaren? I also read this about Bernie but I don't know what is he thinking about Kimi who said he will only drive for Mclaren and they already have a champion there.

IMO if Whitmarsh signs Kimi and pays him what he reportedly expects then he needs his head examining.

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You don't need to be a devotee to notice how well he performed with a car that was not the best out there, he infact did win a few races, While Button did struggle with the best car, Barichello's performance proves it. Give them Lewis and Button the same car, Lewis will trash him anyday, anywhere.

I completely agree with Dribs and you Abbas. I usually don't like to admit that Hamilton is that good, but I like it when people get better :)

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That's assuming Button is as good as Alonso.

Question. You are Stefano and you want a driver to 'do a Michael' for you after a patchy period. You could have Button or Alonso, who would you pick? Who's gonna deliver consistently, day in, day out with no wobbles?

I would rather pick up a few broken toys than see them all travelling safer but slower.

Dribs, I usually agree with you but I have to point out with respect that you're talking bollocks!

Stefano and the whole of the Ferrari team realise that there will never be another Michael. So whats the point in trying? You're forgetting that Michael has raced against both Button and Alonso - all three completely different drivers. Ferrari employ MS to act as an advisor to 'the team' when the general consensus from the fans is he's there to support Massa. Note the word support? Not transform into.

If I was Stefi Dominoes, I'd be looking for somebody that delivers consistently, never throws his toys out of the pram, young enough to progress and get better, yet has a few seasons under his belt. I'd sign Kubica or Vettel in an instant.

Maybe I'm wrong? And if I've offended you its not meant to be like that.

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Dribs, I usually agree with you but I have to point out with respect that you're talking bollocks!

Stefano and the whole of the Ferrari team realise that there will never be another Michael. So whats the point in trying? You're forgetting that Michael has raced against both Button and Alonso - all three completely different drivers. Ferrari employ MS to act as an advisor to 'the team' when the general consensus from the fans is he's there to support Massa. Note the word support? Not transform into.

If I was Stefi Dominoes, I'd be looking for somebody that delivers consistently, never throws his toys out of the pram, young enough to progress and get better, yet has a few seasons under his belt. I'd sign Kubica or Vettel in an instant.

Maybe I'm wrong? And if I've offended you its not meant to be like that.

I was merely making the point that Alonso is a better bet than Button. I'm not offended atall; I know I talk bollocks. Either way, they they are still a fabulous pair. Button and Alonso, that is.

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