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Teams & Drivers 2010

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Can't it? There isn't many major rule changes to next year unlike this year. The main one is the re-fueling ban. I can see no reason that Brawn won't be competitive again in 2010.

And as for McLaren showing no interest in him, you seriously telling me they'd turn down a chance to sign this year's champion even if there was a chance? McLaren have said again and again they want two of the best drivers in the field, and whether it means an all Brit line up or not, they are going to work hard to get 2 of the best drivers.

I just find it stupid that Jenson would move from Brawn to McLaren just for money. I'm not a McLaren fan at all so find it very difficult to give them any praise, espacially this year. I think it's clear that Brawn have kicked McLaren's arse this year. You just need to look at the championship tables to see this.

Next year's rule changes may be minimal on papers, but on track performance, there is a lot of work to be done. For sure Mercedes engines are the most effecient ones, Ferrari has a thirsty block, car is going to behave a lot different from 1st to last lap as the tank is draining, so teams have a lot to sort out.

As for Jenson driving Mclaren, he won't as long as there is another British driver lined up, do you belive every word that comes out Mclaren, when they say they want the best drivers on the grid? may be they belive Jenson is not the best driver, the main reason why they wont sign another British driver is to avoid causin the relation with Merc more itchy..

Don't let your hatred rule common sense, when did I claim Brawns have not kicked Mclaren's arse? Why just Mclaren's arse? they kicked everyones.

Phiew.....

Edited by abbas_gear

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Next year's rule changes may be minimal on papers, but on track performance, there is a lot of work to be done. For sure Mercedes engines are the most effecient ones, Ferrari has a thirsty block, car is going to behave a lot different from 1st to last lap as the tank is draining, so teams have a lot to sort out.

As for Jenson driving Mclaren, he won't as long as there is another British driver lined up, do you belive every word that comes out Mclaren, when they say they want the best drivers on the grid? may be they belive Jenson is not the best driver, the main reason why they wont sign another British driver is to avoid causin the relation with Merc more itchy..

Don't let your hatred rule common sense, when did I claim Brawns have not kicked Mclaren's arse? Why just Mclaren's arse? they kicked everyones.

Phiew.....

I doubt JB may want to drive with an experimental engine next year - if the Merc marriage becomes unraveled, that is.

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I doubt JB may want to drive with an experimental engine next year - if the Merc marriage becomes unraveled, that is.

Sorry, I didn't get what you meant by experimental engine....don't mind please explain...:D

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That's why he said F1 as a whole is NOT boring. He enjoys it. He just would like to see more overtaking, but finds the other aspects of a Grand Prix and the sport as a whole entertaining. At least that's what I think he was saying.

For the record, I'm fine with the number of overtakes and amount of action in F1. But that has nothing to do with this thread anyway.

That'a exactly what I meant, one of the things that I enljoy the most in F1 is the development of the cars, usually the season finish with a difference power balance than it started, I mean taking this season as an example, Brawn was invincible but at the end they could hardly win a race, I enjoy all out of the track actions, like Alonso complaining, the mass dampers,Alonso complaining, double diffuser saga, Alonso complaining, the spygate, Alonso complaining, crahsgate, Alonso complaining, the budge cap, Alonso complaining, kers, Alonso complaining, 14th team, Alonso complaining, new teams, Alonso complaining, three cars per team, Alonso complaining, Schumi's almost cameback and a lot of other stuff but most of all Alonso's fan complaining and inventing every wierd reason to give him the reason for his wierd behavior.

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That'a exactly what I meant, one of the things that I enljoy the most in F1 is the development of the cars, usually the season finish with a difference power balance than it started, I mean taking this season as an example, Brawn was invincible but at the end they could hardly win a race, I enjoy all out of the track actions, like Alonso complaining, the mass dampers,Alonso complaining, double diffuser saga, Alonso complaining, the spygate, Alonso complaining, crahsgate, Alonso complaining, the budge cap, Alonso complaining, kers, Alonso complaining, 14th team, Alonso complaining, new teams, Alonso complaining, three cars per team, Alonso complaining, Schumi's almost cameback and a lot of other stuff but most of all Alonso's fan complaining and inventing every wierd reason to give him the reason for his wierd behavior.

Schumikonen is back on form! :clap3:

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Sunday 25th October 2009

Jenson-Button-and-Ross-Brawn_2374502.jpgFormula One team boss Ross Brawn insists World Champion Jenson Button is "99% certain" to stay with the team next season.

Talks are continuing to try to deliver a pay deal worthy ofButton's new Champion status, and it has been reported Brawn GP areprepared to offer the Briton close to £8million-a-year.

Button took a £5million pay cut when former team owners Hondapulled out last December, and even agreed to pay for his own flightsand hotel bills.

But Brawn looks set to reward him with a huge salary hike to keep him from the clutches of other ambitious teams.

Brawn said: "Jenson's obviously a great driver, so he's got to be a target.

"We want Jenson to stay in the team, and I think we'll find a solution.

"Jenson has a contract with us. But that contract is not thesalary of a World Champion, not the salary of a team that is in a muchstronger position than it was 10 months ago.

"We're working with Jenson to find a balance between what we canafford and what he feels is fair for his status and the contribution hecan make in the future."

Asked on BBC Radio 5 Live's Sportsweek programme if he is 100%sure Button will stay, Brawn replied: "You're never 100% - but I'd say99%."

The Formula One season wraps up in Abu Dhabi next weekend, andBrawn expects the situation to be resolved within a fortnight of thatfinal grand prix.

He said: "It's really difficult going into Abu Dhabi, becauseobviously we still want to put up a good performance there - and it'snot the best environment.

"We've set a target of two weeks after the last race to get thisconcluded. But maybe it'll happen before then. It's finding this middleground between what we can afford, compared to all the other things weneed to do with the team.

"We have a finite amount of resource, money, whatever - and wehave to look at the best way of spending that. It's not money that'sgoing to the shareholders; it's money that's going into the team toinvest and to buy the things we need to be competitive in the future.

"We have a great relationship with Jenson, and he has been awonderful part of the team and has done a fantastic job this year.There have been a few difficulties on qualifying this season, but hisrace performance has been exemplary.

Edited by abbas_gear

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Next year's rule changes may be minimal on papers, but on track performance, there is a lot of work to be done. For sure Mercedes engines are the most effecient ones, Ferrari has a thirsty block, car is going to behave a lot different from 1st to last lap as the tank is draining, so teams have a lot to sort out.

As for Jenson driving Mclaren, he won't as long as there is another British driver lined up, do you belive every word that comes out Mclaren, when they say they want the best drivers on the grid? may be they belive Jenson is not the best driver, the main reason why they wont sign another British driver is to avoid causin the relation with Merc more itchy..

Don't let your hatred rule common sense, when did I claim Brawns have not kicked Mclaren's arse? Why just Mclaren's arse? they kicked everyones.

Phiew.....

Yeah, I find it rubbish to say that Brawn won't be competitive next season. As I have said the rules are hardly changing and the team is the same. They KNOW how to win races and championships.

Really? Okay, get a letter from Whitmarsh confirming he won't be a McLaren driver next year. Of course, I'm not saying the deal is done, it may simply be speculation, but I find it stupid to write some of these rumours of when very little official has been said. And yes, I DO believe McLaren when they say they want two of the best drivers in the field. They are hardly going to want some shoddy tail ender who can't go a race without binning it, will they? This is a team that prides itself on winning championships. At the end of the day, it's the talent of a driver that does a deal, not the nationality. Ferrari are Italian and I'm quite sure they'd want an Italian driver, but they haven't had a long term Italian driver for many many years. Indeed, they have a Spaniard and a Brazilian for next season.

Likewise, don't let your lovefest with McLaren rule common sense. I used McLaren as the example as you were refering how you think that McLaren will be back next year and how Brawn will be un-competitive.Using this year as the form book with very little on-track rule changes, I find it strange to imagine that Brawn will suddenly go from champions to back-markers.

Edited by JHS

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Sorry, I didn't get what you meant by experimental engine....don't mind please explain...:D

If McLaren buy BMW's engine plant, [a Ron Dennis initiative for the road car division] the will become fully independent, in much the same way as Ferrari are. Mercedes overtures to Brawn have been made against this background. If all went ahead, 2010 would be something of a transitional year, would it not? JB has had his fill of transitional years, I think.

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Yeah, I find it rubbish to say that Brawn won't be competitive next season. As I have said the rules are hardly changing and the team is the same. They KNOW how to win races and championships.

Really? Okay, get a letter from Whitmarsh confirming he won't be a McLaren driver next year. Of course, I'm not saying the deal is done, it may simply be speculation, but I find it stupid to write some of these rumours of when very little official has been said. And yes, I DO believe McLaren when they say they want two of the best drivers in the field. They are hardly going to want some shoddy tail ender who can't go a race without binning it, will they? This is a team that prides itself on winning championships. At the end of the day, it's the talent of a driver that does a deal, not the nationality. Ferrari are Italian and I'm quite sure they'd want an Italian driver, but they haven't had a long term Italian driver for many many years. Indeed, they have a Spaniard and a Brazilian for next season.

Likewise, don't let your lovefest with McLaren rule common sense. Iused McLaren as the example as you were refering how you think thatMcLaren will be back next year and how Brawn will beun-competitive.Using this year as the form book with very littleon-track rules, I find it strange to imagine that Brawn will suddenlygo from champions to back-markers.

It wasn't rubbish until Mercedes bought into them. Prior to that, it looked like they wouldn't have the budget to keep up. Now, I'd agree, they won't fall too far. I don't think it's a matter of them getting worse, but rather the other teams getting better. I think Ferrari will be very hard to beat; if Macca stay with Merc, they'll be tough, too, and I think Red Bull are right on the verge. Brawn could fall to fourth, but I'm not saying they will or will not.

I wish it wasn't the nationality, but sponsors have needs, too. If a sponsor wants a certain driver, you're getting that driver. A lot of times the drivers a sponsor wants depend on nationality (i.e. their biggest target market is Kazakhstan, so they want a Kazakhstani driver to appeal to Kazakhstani fans). Besides, Ferrari are playing the nation game; notice how they took three Italian drivers from Italian F3 when they were looking for young drivers last winter, instead of taking three well-qualified who cares what nation drivers from who cares what series. They wanted Bortolotti, Cicatelli, and Piscopo to test not because of talent (I'm not saying they are untalented, because they aren't), but because they were the best Italians. Don't let your Ferrari lovefest ruin your common sense. ;)

Did Shaliq ever say they'd be backmarkers, or did he say they'd be uncompetitive? There's a difference. Backmarker implies US F1, uncompetitive can imply third or fourth best team.

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I wish it wasn't the nationality, but sponsors have needs, too. If a sponsor wants a certain driver, you're getting that driver. A lot of times the drivers a sponsor wants depend on nationality (i.e. their biggest target market is Kazakhstan, so they want a Kazakhstani driver to appeal to Kazakhstani fans). Besides, Ferrari are playing the nation game; notice how they took three Italian drivers from Italian F3 when they were looking for young drivers last winter, instead of taking three well-qualified who cares what nation drivers from who cares what series. They wanted Bortolotti, Cicatelli, and Piscopo to test not because of talent (I'm not saying they are untalented, because they aren't), but because they were the best Italians. Don't let your Ferrari lovefest ruin your common sense. ;)

Yes, they used 3 Italians to test for them because the top 3 in the Italian F3 championship happened to be Italian. They simply use the top 3 drivers from that championship to test for them as their prize, and it just so happens that they are Italian.

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Or Ferrari are never wrong, like that time Fernando Alonso went form an annoying prick and overrated and all that to "pound-for-pound the best driver out there" after he was confirmed to be headed to the Scuderia. ;)

(I'm kidding, so don't think I'm going out of my way to be a d#ck. All I'm trying to prove is that as fans, we're all going to have some kind of bias. It's just a sport, and we're just a bunch of wannabes talking about it, so don't take things too seriously and/or personally :)).

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For me:

Brawn-Mercedes (Title sponsor: Monster Energy)

1 Jenson Button

2 Nico Rosberg

Red Bull-Mercedes (Title sponsor: Red Bull)

3 Sebastian Vettel

4 Mark Webber

McLaren-Mercedes (Title sponsor: Vodafone)

5 Lewis Hamilton

6 Timo Glock

Ferrari (Title sponsor: Santander /Marlboro)

7 Fernando Alonso

8 Felipe Massa

Toyota (Title sponsor: Panasonic)

9 Kimi Raikkonen

10 Kamui Kobayashi

Williams-Cosworth (Title sponsor: ???)

11 Rubens Barrichello

12 Nico Hulkenberg

Renault (Title sponsor: Megafon, Nokia?)

14 Robert Kubica

15 Heikki Kovalainen

Sauber-Ferrari (Title sponsor: Qadbak)

16 Nick Heidfeld

17 Christian Klien

Force India-Mercedes (Title sponsor: Kingfisher)

18 Adrian Sutil

19 Bertrand Baguette

Toro Rosso-Ferrari (Title sponsor: Red Bull Cola)

20 Sebastien Buemi

21 Jaime Alguersuari

Lotus-Cosworth (Title sponsor: Petronas, Air Asia, Proton)

22 Jarno Trulli

23 Fairuz Fauzy

Manor-Cosworth (Title sponsor: Virgin)

24 Adam Carroll

25 Lucas Di Grassi

Campos-Cosworth (Title sponsor: Telefonica?)

26 Nelson Piquet Jr

27 Bruno Senna

USF1???? (Will they make it to the grid?!?!?!?)

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For me:

Brawn-Mercedes (Title sponsor: Monster Energy)

1 Jenson Button

2 Nico Rosberg

Red Bull-Mercedes (Title sponsor: Red Bull)

3 Sebastian Vettel

4 Mark Webber

McLaren-Mercedes (Title sponsor: Vodafone)

5 Lewis Hamilton

6 Timo Glock

Ferrari (Title sponsor: Santander /Marlboro)

7 Fernando Alonso

8 Felipe Massa

Toyota (Title sponsor: Panasonic)

9 Kimi Raikkonen

10 Kamui Kobayashi

Williams-Cosworth (Title sponsor: ???)

11 Rubens Barrichello

12 Nico Hulkenberg

Renault (Title sponsor: Megafon, Nokia?)

14 Robert Kubica

15 Heikki Kovalainen

Sauber-Ferrari (Title sponsor: Qadbak)

16 Nick Heidfeld

17 Christian Klien

Force India-Mercedes (Title sponsor: Kingfisher)

18 Adrian Sutil

19 Bertrand Baguette

Toro Rosso-Ferrari (Title sponsor: Red Bull Cola)

20 Sebastien Buemi

21 Jaime Alguersuari

Lotus-Cosworth (Title sponsor: Petronas, Air Asia, Proton)

22 Jarno Trulli

23 Fairuz Fauzy

Manor-Cosworth (Title sponsor: Virgin)

24 Adam Carroll

25 Lucas Di Grassi

Campos-Cosworth (Title sponsor: Telefonica?)

26 Nelson Piquet Jr

27 Bruno Senna

USF1???? (Will they make it to the grid?!?!?!?)

I've just noticed next year's grid is goin' to be filled with german drivers: Seb Vettel, Nico Rosberg, Timo Glock, Nick Heidfeld, Nico Hulkenberg, Adrian Sutil....

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Or Ferrari are never wrong, like that time Fernando Alonso went form an annoying prick and overrated and all that to "pound-for-pound the best driver out there" after he was confirmed to be headed to the Scuderia. ;)

(I'm kidding, so don't think I'm going out of my way to be a d#ck. All I'm trying to prove is that as fans, we're all going to have some kind of bias. It's just a sport, and we're just a bunch of wannabes talking about it, so don't take things too seriously and/or personally :)).

Maybe that pharse is right but Kimi actually weights more than Alonso and that makes him the best driver pound-for pound as alonso will run out of pound before Matias does :P

Edited by Schumikonen

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I've just noticed next year's grid is goin' to be filled with german drivers: Seb Vettel, Nico Rosberg, Timo Glock, Nick Heidfeld, Nico Hulkenberg, Adrian Sutil....

Schumi could make a come back next season, hopefully fill in for Alonso as he gets trashed by Massa. :P

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Yeah, I find it rubbish to say that Brawn won't be competitive next season. As I have said the rules are hardly changing and the team is the same. They KNOW how to win races and championships.

As I mentioned in my earlier response above, rule consistency just allows others, who are behind to catch up. Why on earth is everyone going to stand still with Brawn still being so competitive? They are under funded and have already been caught. Look at this season; Jenson crept over the line (from a race position point of view). Their competitive edge has already gone. So what that they 'know' how to win championships. In reality that means nothing. Williams know how to win championships too but they can do f*ck all about it because their competition is stronger and healthier.

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As I mentioned in my earlier response above, rule consistency just allows others, who are behind to catch up. Why on earth is everyone going to stand still with Brawn still being so competitive? They are under funded and have already been caught. Look at this season; Jenson crept over the line (from a race position point of view). Their competitive edge has already gone. So what that they 'know' how to win championships. In reality that means nothing. Williams know how to win championships too but they can do f*ck all about it because their competition is stronger and healthier.

yep, Ferrari knew how to for a long time and they spend 19 years without a WDC.

Edited by Schumikonen

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Or Ferrari are never wrong, like that time Fernando Alonso went form an annoying prick and overrated and all that to "pound-for-pound the best driver out there" after he was confirmed to be headed to the Scuderia. ;)

(I'm kidding, so don't think I'm going out of my way to be a d#ck. All I'm trying to prove is that as fans, we're all going to have some kind of bias. It's just a sport, and we're just a bunch of wannabes talking about it, so don't take things too seriously and/or personally :)).

I think you'll find that if you researched it I admitted that BEFORE Alonso was confirmed to be going to Ferrari. Because I'm not biased, see? :P

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I've had the flu' - a first in 30 years - hey ho.

With the current developments that are afoot, a revised list:

Mercedes Brawn | Button/Rosberg

Team McLaren | Hamilton/Sutil

Williams Cosworth | Barrichello/Hulkenberg

Team Toyota | Glock/Kobayashi

Scuderia Ferrari | Massa/Alonso

Megafon Renault | Kubica/Kovalainen

Red Bull Renault | Vettel/Webber

STR Ferrari | Buemi/Alguersuera

Lotus Cosworth | Trulli/Fauzy

Qadbak Sauber Ferrari | R

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They are under funded and have already been caught. Look at this season; Jenson crept over the line (from a race position point of view). Their competitive edge has already gone. So what that they 'know' how to win championships. In reality that means nothing. Williams know how to win championships too but they can do f*ck all about it because their competition is stronger and healthier.

Are they behind in funding? As the last I heard, Brawn had signed a contract with a big-money company for 2010, thus meaning they would be safe in the future.

And I'm sorry, but I find it funny how people seem to be looking down on the job that Button and Brawn have done this season. I'll admit, I'm not the biggest supporters of theirs, but at the end of the day, they are CHAMPIONS. Jenson crept over the line to be champion. If they did such a bad job, I doubt they'd have won 6 out of the first 7 races and scooped up both championships with 1 race to go.

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I've had the flu' - a first in 30 years - hey ho.

With the current developments that are afoot, a revised list:

Mercedes Brawn | Button/Rosberg

Team McLaren | Hamilton/Sutil

Williams Cosworth | Barrichello/Hulkenberg

Team Toyota | Glock/Kobayashi

Scuderia Ferrari | Massa/Alonso

Megafon Renault | Kubica/Kovalainen

Red Bull Renault | Vettel/Webber

STR Ferrari | Buemi/Alguersuera

Lotus Cosworth | Trulli/Fauzy

Qadbak Sauber Ferrari | R

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Yeah, I find it rubbish to say that Brawn won't be competitive next season. As I have said the rules are hardly changing and the team is the same. They KNOW how to win races and championships.

Really? Okay, get a letter from Whitmarsh confirming he won't be a McLaren driver next year. Of course, I'm not saying the deal is done, it may simply be speculation, but I find it stupid to write some of these rumours of when very little official has been said. And yes, I DO believe McLaren when they say they want two of the best drivers in the field. They are hardly going to want some shoddy tail ender who can't go a race without binning it, will they? This is a team that prides itself on winning championships. At the end of the day, it's the talent of a driver that does a deal, not the nationality. Ferrari are Italian and I'm quite sure they'd want an Italian driver, but they haven't had a long term Italian driver for many many years. Indeed, they have a Spaniard and a Brazilian for next season.

Likewise, don't let your lovefest with McLaren rule common sense. I used McLaren as the example as you were refering how you think that McLaren will be back next year and how Brawn will be un-competitive.Using this year as the form book with very little on-track rule changes, I find it strange to imagine that Brawn will suddenly go from champions to back-markers.

I never said Brawns won't be competitive in first place, I was just pointing out how Mclaren has improved and I never said Mclaren will be back on top next season.

I don't need to get a letter from Whitmarsh to confirm,but you can check this link I have pasted and see why I am sure Button wont drive for Mclaren, does not mean Mclaren is a team that is too good for Button or viceversa http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_5647147,00.html Mercedes has been pushing for a German driver for a very long time.

I love Mclaren more than anyother team, everyone here knows, but I am not a hardcore fan boy who would switch off the tv if both their cars crash out.

I just pointed out Mclaren's improvement when you call them woeful compared to brawns and that Button leaving a competitive team like Brawns, as if Mclaren gave up like some teams on this season...with a Sh#tty car they even went to win some races..and they are still a top team currently in the third spot, and at second half of the season they were as competitive as Brawns, or even better than them on several occassions.

Now when did I say Mclaren will be top next season, and Brawns would be uncompetitive in first place? all I said was that, this season's success wont guarantee next season's success as some rules change...yes, those rules are minimal on a black and white paper, but on track performance will make a lot of difference, we don't know how the tyres are going to behave with a fully loaded car etc etc etc.....and teams like Ferrari and Mclaren are pushing hard for next season's car. The current Brawn gp car was developed in three directions, and used five wind tunnels....probably the most expensive F1 car currently on the grid, a luxury that they may not have enjoyed this season with the limited budget they had, and Mercedes money for sure has not yet arrived, if they did I don't think it would have taken Button this long to sign a new deal, perhaps we wouldn't have had this arguement in first place. This is why I asked you not to let your Hatred towards Mclaren rule your common sense.

Edited by abbas_gear

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It wasn't rubbish until Mercedes bought into them. Prior to that, it looked like they wouldn't have the budget to keep up. Now, I'd agree, they won't fall too far. I don't think it's a matter of them getting worse, but rather the other teams getting better. I think Ferrari will be very hard to beat; if Macca stay with Merc, they'll be tough, too, and I think Red Bull are right on the verge. Brawn could fall to fourth, but I'm not saying they will or will not.

I wish it wasn't the nationality, but sponsors have needs, too. If a sponsor wants a certain driver, you're getting that driver. A lot of times the drivers a sponsor wants depend on nationality (i.e. their biggest target market is Kazakhstan, so they want a Kazakhstani driver to appeal to Kazakhstani fans). Besides, Ferrari are playing the nation game; notice how they took three Italian drivers from Italian F3 when they were looking for young drivers last winter, instead of taking three well-qualified who cares what nation drivers from who cares what series. They wanted Bortolotti, Cicatelli, and Piscopo to test not because of talent (I'm not saying they are untalented, because they aren't), but because they were the best Italians. Don't let your Ferrari lovefest ruin your common sense. ;)

Did Shaliq ever say they'd be backmarkers, or did he say they'd be uncompetitive? There's a difference. Backmarker implies US F1, uncompetitive can imply third or fourth best team.

Ah Eric, from when did Kazakhstan start appealing to you? besides, I don't think there is a KFC outlet there....:naughty:

Anyways, if only I read your post earlier, I wouldn't have spent so much time typing such a long one as my reply to JHS...:D

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If McLaren buy BMW's engine plant, [a Ron Dennis initiative for the road car division] the will become fully independent, in much the same way as Ferrari are. Mercedes overtures to Brawn have been made against this background. If all went ahead, 2010 would be something of a transitional year, would it not? JB has had his fill of transitional years, I think.

Oh yes, I get it..but somehow it get that feeling that Cossy will be the best on grid next season...you know why!

Edited by abbas_gear

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Are they behind in funding? As the last I heard, Brawn had signed a contract with a big-money company for 2010, thus meaning they would be safe in the future.

And I'm sorry, but I find it funny how people seem to be looking down on the job that Button and Brawn have done this season. I'll admit, I'm not the biggest supporters of theirs, but at the end of the day, they are CHAMPIONS. Jenson crept over the line to be champion. If they did such a bad job, I doubt they'd have won 6 out of the first 7 races and scooped up both championships with 1 race to go.

Just because they have funding for next season does not mean they have spent the effort on next season's car. We saw teams like Ferrari and Mclaren being kicked despite them having the fuding, all due to the fact that they did not put the effort on the this year's car as early as Honda did last season. Everyone points out that it was Mercedes that made the difference, but if they could produce such a good chassis with good aerodynamics, they would have been able to produce a good engine too, perhaps even better engine to Merc, and their KERS was rumoured to be a way ahead of the rest....as a system like KERS is very important for them to market their so called GREEN values. I don't think anyone in this forum is taking away what Brawn GP achieved, perhaps everyone were happy to see a team which were not sure if they would even make it to the grid in OZ kick everyone for a change. Everyone here despite being biased to some team or drivers in someway or the other has accepted Brawns are the champs......no one is hiding.

Edited by abbas_gear

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