F1 Is Losing Its Appeal, To The Masses, And To The Hardcore Fans.

[AleHop 0]

i'm pro the 'if u r not happy, find smthg else to do'.

Fortunately I don't need to find anything. I can do more than just one thing in my life.

I'm happy and satisfied.

[Kati 0]

Fortunately I don't need to find anything. I can do more than just one thing in my life.

I'm happy and satisfied.

[Jean Todt 4]

You cannot be that naive. The diffuser row was instigated by the FIA and Bernie, they probably didn't expect such a result but they banned advanced aerodynamics to bring advanced diffusers? They banned advanced aerodynamics to ease overtaking and they brought advanced diffusers which are weapons of mass destruction for overtaking?

Any team what? Some people complain a lot, but some others just stick to the script way too much.

Diffuser was only an insturment that helped Brawn to win, even with a damaged diffuser, Brawns were quick, it didn't cost them much, and even without a diffuser it was possible to win, (Redbull won without diffuser, correct me if I am wrong)....guys like Flavio made stupid mess of it, while guys like Martin kept quite and waited to know if it was legal and made their own....even without diffusers I did not get to see much overtakings anyways in the start of the season..we should not narrow our search just to one component, suerly FIA will be working on new set of rules to help overtaking, but teams would make their jobs tough by making their cars go faster, suerly if you are a part of team you only want your car to go faster, why should you help the guy behind you overtake you?

Anyways, F1 is not losing appeal at all, when one loses interest, there are ten others gaining intersts, take this forum for example, when one regular memeber leaves, there are ten others joining and they become regular, like, Eric, eric2, burro, el cino and Lewisthegreat2. In the same manner, more and more people are buying computers, internet connections, more importantly TV sets, which is only increasing the awareness of the sport, sites like this kinda gets them more involved and make all of them feel as if they are experts....things like that. If someone thinks F1 is losing its appeal, it means he is one of them who is losing, but there are ten others for whom this sport appeals...

Like wise many brands do find F1 appealing, but some of them pull out of F1 sponsorship if they think they have achived their target, or some would like to stick if they think it is working and they feel if they stick around more they would make even more money in the market, take Santander sticking with Mclaren for example, after they found that their sponsorship for them made them gain some image in UK. Team like BMW, Renault, Toyota are pulling out because they have gained sufficient image or credit, some use this excuse of rescession, to pull out because they are not able to win, bad losers, but in the past we have seen manufacuterers coming in and going, so I don't know whats the big deal if we lose three of them this season, soon we will have some one coming in anyways...

[Autumnpuma 0]

Losing Toyota, BMW and Honda greatly reduces its pulling power as far as fans go, and Ferrari is right, the new teams are not going to be able to fill their shoes.

I think it sucks that these teams are pulling out, I dont want some sutpid series with all these car brands that have no relevance to the whole world, or even the real world. McLaren and Ferrari are the only teams left that are of any real interest, and neither make cars for the average Joe Blogg, so Mr Blogg who owns a Toyota now has nothing, and Mr Smith who owns a Honda or a BMW has nothing. Renault sound like theyre going to fold as well so there goes half of France's fanbase plus the other millions of Renault owners world-wide.

I think it sucks, and I dont know who to blame, except Mosely and Eccelstone, both of whom are retarded monkeys.

If F1 loses the manufacturers it loses a large chunk of its fans.

Also since Im in a bad mood, half of these new tracks suck, wow they LOOK good, but the racing is enough to put one to sleep.

F1 is about one man driving the wheels off of one machine. Dueling with the other drivers to gain that elusive, yet satisfying top step on the podium. That's it. All the other stuff you're talking about are additives, adjuncts, crap. Sorry, but there it is.

Here's a prime example of a person with a dead-nuts-on grasp of F1. Learn:

But I'm still very interested in F1 and will continue to watch in 2010. I think it's easy to be disappointed when you have the ability to imagine a dream series. Obviously, I want more from grand prix, but the things I need to keep me happy are still there (read best drivers in the world in the best cars in the world on some of the best circuits in the world making the best overtaking maneuvers in the world). Considering what it could be, and what most other series are going through, I can't complain.

But then you lose the plot when you say this:

Obviously, F1 needs to make itself more appealing to manufactures, but how?

Competition is it's own appeal. Manufacturers compete to be the best. If they have no interest in that, if their interest in F1 is more in selling cars than winning, I'll be happy to see the back of them. You save yourself with this next part:

Ultimately, if the sport gave the teams freedom, they could figure out how to balance competitiveness with cost. When you don't have much room to work with, you're forced to spend millions just to meet the rules. When you have fewer rules, you can work around things to save money but still be competitive; every problem has multiple solutions and some cost less than others.

Having fewer rules does not mean having less of a sport. It depends on what rules are made 'fewer'. I agree with you, however.

No, not to me. When they set off for the warm up lap, and the red lights go out, nothing's changed for me in 45 years, never mind this time last year ffs.

Yup. At that moment, the drivers are in control and God bless 'em for it.

"Too much politics", "no passing", "it's too easy to pass", "cars 3 secs a lap shouldn't be there", "the cars are too close to enable passing", "Jean Marie Balestre/sMax/Sweeny Todt are crooks", "he's a dirty/great/w#nker/God of a driver"...... ad sickium......the biggest single change in for F1 is the introduction of a means to speed up the passing-on of opinion, news, gossip and the marketing of F1 to more people. We're using it now.

I agree, but I think it goes deeper than that. People who had a decent grasp of F1 are now agreeing with the crap that's out there and actually participating in it, instead of holding the line and saying "Stop the crap, dammit, this is F1 so grab a beer, sit down and shut up."

It feels like every week someone wants to poll whether F1's crap or not. For those that's had it in the blood for a wee while, it's the same old corrupt, beautiful sport it's always been, and no, for the hard core fans it's not looking silly, it's looking the same as always, just different.

Yup.

Now for the best damned post this forum has seen since Steve paid homage to MIkey the Schu with a dropped trou and a bottle of Stella:

I could care less who the teams are as long as they are competitive and at each other's throats on the track. My most enjoyable experiences where when there was hardly a manufacturer in sight with teams like Tyrell, Williams, BRM, Brabham, Hesketh, McLaren, Cooper, Vanwall, March, Ligier, Fittipaldi, Surtees, Bennetton, Dallara, Jordan, Toleman, Minardi, Stewart and Lola gracing the grid. Ford/Cosi supplied the standard engine back then with the odd Judd, Alfa Romeo and even Pratt & Witney thrown in but that was about it in terms of motor industry participation. Ferrari and Lotus could have hardly be classed as 'manufacturers' in the sense that Renault can either. The Regie have alway been run by w#nkers - I know, I worked there. To me, the return of so many privateers to the grid is far more stimulating than the arrival of Hyundai or Audi. No one goes to see a race to support the maker of the car they drive, [with the possible exception of Ferrari - if you're that lucky] they go to see racing, pure and simple. I firmly believe, that with more minnows on the grid, crowds will increase. Of all the mass-market carmaker teams that have been involved in the sport, only Renault have ever won the constructer's Championship since it's inception in 1958 when it was taken by Vanwall.

Bravo, my friend. Bravo.

[Autumnpuma 0]

he is one of them who is losing, but there are ten others for whom this sport appeals...

But the question we must ask is this: What appeals to them and why have the initial fans left? There's a change that has happened in F1 and it may not be good. Games are governed by rules; sports are done for the doing of it. Are we OK with F1 becoming a game instead of a sport? Gaining fans is a poor substitute for losing the essence of F1. Amen.

[AleHop 0]

...we should not narrow our search just to one component, suerly FIA will be working on new set of rules to help overtaking, but teams would make their jobs tough by making their cars go faster, suerly if you are a part of team you only want your car to go faster, why should you help the guy behind you overtake you?

Let's go wacky races!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlTlL53KGRs

That could give FIA some good ideas to spice things up.

Like the famous 'pour oil on the track' button.

They're lovely!

[Negative Ions 0]

F1 is about one man driving the wheels off of one machine. Dueling withthe other drivers to gain that elusive, yet satisfying top step on thepodium. That's it. All the other stuff you're talking about areadditives, adjuncts, crap. Sorry, but there it is.

Yes well thats your opinion which you are entitled to. However times have changed since the "good ole days". What you refer to as crap is now what F1 is trying to use to attract people to the sport. Look at F1 Rocks for example, they are trying to bring a mainstream audience into the sport. For that to work you need mainstream teams. Theres too much money involved in this sport now, for it to be for a few hardcore racing purists. F1 needs to appeal to the masses, and to do so you need people to be able to say, "wow I drive a Renault and look my teams winning". This doesnt exclude fantastic drivers and racing, but it ensures the sport is sustainable and boosts its fanbase.

[maure 1]

If there's someone in the whole world who'd lose the most if F1 fails, that one is Bernie. Max has some ego crisis, yes, and I do think he should've been able to negotiate a little further, but in the end, they were right - manufacturers would pull out anyways - with or without max. Responsability on what? they have the responsability to keep the sport going, and well, it is going, when people wanted to break it apart.

I cheer for F1 the same way I've ever did. I loved BMW and was by far my favorite team. Still, teams come and go, and we know that for ages. Drivers come and go. The sport remains, and that's what matters in the end. I do not feel being robbed, and as far as I do take F1 as a big part of my life, I do not take it as personal to say I do feel so. Not happy? Go watch Nascar/indycar/GP2. I'm still pretty happy things are still going by now.

Come on, Kati, a season when the first half of the races are decided months in advanced and by trickery... what can I say, it is a spherical fraud.

It isn't enough to claim that this goes on every season. In fact, there are seasons when odds, skill, and sportsmanship, upset the script (not many, mind you). I don't see a reason to turn a blind eye on the mess FIA makes of F1.

Very good thread.

I posted my opinion somewhere else and I think F1 is neither attractive nor understandable for the average viewer. How can you explain RBR beating Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW, Renault, Toyota... And how can those F1 teams convince their big companies to stay and throw money in the F1 business . Is anybody so stupid to think it's any good to simply participate in F1 for those big names?

Some of us may be more interested than ever but so many TF1 members leaving the forums can give us the real answer to the poll.

Good points. All of them.

I would say, however, that this is not an issue of RBR beating other supposedly better teams. Why? Because RBR had the most legal car on track (a completely different issue is BrawnGP). Any manufacturer or team can deal with that (I mean, RBR) but few can deal with the fraud (I mean, BrawnGP).

Companies survive (or die) based on their capacity to thrive in competitive environments. Very successful companies (Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc) leave F1 because it is not a competition but a scripted fraud ruled by whim and inscrutable self-interest, iow, an environment in which it is impossible to thrive unless... you are on the take. Able companies understand F1 is a bad business environment... as are, for example, monopoly-based economies... and there goes Bridgestone, btw.

[yurp 0]

Bollocking Hell! The good 'ole Six cypresses trick eh? I nearly used the sausage-drying phrase

Faites attention mon ami...

Un chasseur sachant chasser doit savoir chasser sans son chien de chasse.

[HandyNZL 1]

What F1 is lacking is a game on the 360 for the off season.

Other than that I am looking forward to the new guys next year. Never really like the manufacturers in the sport as teams on their own...I'd rather they made some engines, like Honda and Renault did in the 80's and 90's. Merc has it right...have an interest in a team, supply some engines....let the racers get on with the racing and the running of a racing team.

[JHS 1]

The next F1 game comes out next year on PC, PS3 and Xbox 360. It will be of the 2010 season, so I'll be getting it for sure!

[Kati 0]

Come on, Kati, a season when the first half of the races are decided months in advanced and by trickery... what can I say, it is a spherical fraud.

It isn't enough to claim that this goes on every season. In fact, there are seasons when odds, skill, and sportsmanship, upset the script (not many, mind you). I don't see a reason to turn a blind eye on the mess FIA makes of F1.

I was never pro the diffusor thing, like i'm against kers if not all cars have it. However, it was again a breach on the rules. I would've cut them off the championship, but apparently, most people were 'appreciating' the fact someone new was on top, and brawngp was winning. The point is that breaches on rules have been getting to a point that, if you stop to read the f1 regulations, you'll come across things like 'the race will be finished once the first car passes the line that crosses the trackline. / no team or contender is allowed to paint lines.' this is ridiculous. it's up to also the fans to have sense of ethics and know which teams are doing right and which are doing wrong, and who to support. if they had banned brawn car, they wouldn't have raced - most likely - further, and by now, we'd have threads on how unfair fia is to the newcomers, since 'they didn't do anything against the regulations' and 'were making the championship more interesting'.

[Argento Reloaded 1]

In the 2000-2mm04 period one of the most boring era in F1 history -when a kinder child knows at january michel will be WDC at november. Where are you guys? OK, Fiarrari was winning and that

[mikathegreat2 2]

The next F1 game comes out next year on PC, PS3 and Xbox 360. It will be of the 2010 season, so I'll be getting it for sure!

+1

[NuFlyer 0]

On the Plus side . . .

New winning team & driver.

RBR being the next best.

Force India prove their worth.

Koyayashi

Max is gone.

A bit more passing or competitive racing.

New teams and drivers due in for 2010.

Alonso in a Ferrari, should be interesting.

YAS Marina looks magic.

On the downside.

Ferrrrrri & Macca will probably return to the top again in 2010.

Nelshino-crashgate.

Jean Todt will probably no different than Max.

Not as much passing as predicted.

BMW & Toyota leaving.

Looks like Trulli might still have a race seat.

Silverstone gone, SPA under threat.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Yes well thats your opinion which you are entitled to. However times have changed since the "good ole days". What you refer to as crap is now what F1 is trying to use to attract people to the sport. Look at F1 Rocks for example, they are trying to bring a mainstream audience into the sport. For that to work you need mainstream teams. Theres too much money involved in this sport now, for it to be for a few hardcore racing purists. F1 needs to appeal to the masses, and to do so you need people to be able to say, "wow I drive a Renault and look my teams winning". This doesnt exclude fantastic drivers and racing, but it ensures the sport is sustainable and boosts its fanbase.

In one paragraph, you've completely missed the point of a motor race. Why aren't you watching soccer or cricket or football or any of the other games devised to appeal to an audience? Times haven't changed and the essence of motorsport hasn't changed. It's fan-base has, however. I view people like you, with your wrongheaded ideas on what racing is, as an invader to a sport I dearly love. Spectacle can never create sport, but true sport always creates spectacle. Consider that.

[Schumikonen 2]

+1

I still have to get a PS3 but I want to buy it to get the new F1 game and also because it can play Blue Ray.

[mikathegreat2 2]

YAS Marina looks magic.

It looks like something very familiar :

[Max Mosley 2]

You glow like that, too, Danny?

[mikathegreat2 2]

You glow like that, too, Danny?

Only when I think of you!

[Schumikonen 2]

You glow like that, too, Danny?

I wouldn't be surprised I saw an advertisement were a company was offering a package to create a copy of your "Package" that can also glow in the dark and they stated that you do all the process, they send you everything you need for that, what I wonder is what can a man do with a copy of his "package"? and what is the purpose of glowing in the dark?

[Medilloni 6]

In one paragraph, you've completely missed the point of a motor race. Why aren't you watching soccer or cricket or football or any of the other games devised to appeal to an audience? Times haven't changed and the essence of motorsport hasn't changed. It's fan-base has, however. I view people like you, with your wrongheaded ideas on what racing is, as an invader to a sport I dearly love. Spectacle can never create sport, but true sport always creates spectacle. Consider that.

Absolutely. Indeed.

Yes well thats your opinion which you are entitled to. However times have changed since the "good ole days". What you refer to as crap is now what F1 is trying to use to attract people to the sport. Look at F1 Rocks for example, they are trying to bring a mainstream audience into the sport. For that to work you need mainstream teams. Theres too much money involved in this sport now, for it to be for a few hardcore racing purists. F1 needs to appeal to the masses, and to do so you need people to be able to say, "wow I drive a Renault and look my teams winning". This doesnt exclude fantastic drivers and racing, but it ensures the sport is sustainable and boosts its fanbase.

Don't be offended Neg Ions, but it sounds as though you've never had your ears split at a GP live, never had the smell-and-taste-invasion. If you have, I'm worried for the sport!If you haven't, you've got to go for your baptism, no band can't make this kind of music...

Times do change, and some of us are dragged kickin and screamin through it, but one thing is *for sure the insipid sanitation of TV and forums do F1 no favours.

*See? One day we'll all speak F1-ski

[Schumikonen 2]

Don't be offended Neg Ions, but it sounds as though you've never had your ears split at a GP live, never had the smell-and-taste-invasion. If you have, I'm worried for the sport!If you haven't, you've got to go for your baptism, no band can't make this kind of music...

I don't know exactly what are you talking about but that brought back to my mind when I used to go to races in my country, everytime a GTS went by there was that peculiar smell in the air like burnt oil or something that no perfume can imitate and the sound of those cars roaring together it was the most amazing music I have ever heard, I have a friend who used to say "I don't change that sound for any woman in this world"

[Negative Ions 0]

Autumnpuma and medilloni.

I suppose I can understand your frustration but you both seem to think that just because f1 is expanding it's target market that it precludes great racing? Manufacturers or not you will still get the type of racing you are after. You will still get to taste it and smell it and have your eardrums blown by it regardless of who is participating. The racing is governed by the rules.

I want this sport that I love to endear itself to others so they can share my passion.

[rodders47 2]

Can someone on here give me a LOGICAL answer why Bernie is so against Silverstone holding a Grand Prix ?? Donnington is a wish of the past, but now Bernie is stating that Silverstone only have a few days to sign up ??

He seems hell bent to drop this track, which by all accounts the drivers love to drive on and going by past attendances the spectators love to come and watch !!!