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cavallino

The Schumacher Thread

259 posts in this topic


Sorry, I watched Brokeback last night. Where the hell is Ben, anyway?

I wish I could quit you.

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Not so. Age does take it's toll and reflexes will dull despite any physical training. Fortunately, Mikey's brilliance isn't dependent on reflexes. He has good arse-feel*.

Well, it certainly has taken a toll on you. tongue.gif

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Schumacher has been by far the most exciting driver to watch in F1 over the last decade at least

I would agree to that if he have (ever) had a decent teammate that was at least allowed to win when he performed better...

Speed is a relative thing.

Karts can be much slower than F1, but because you can see two drivers with (about) the same equipement, you can get excited about how good someone is...

But when you have a driver in F1 that get all priorities over his teammate, no DNFs in years (while his teammate had one DNF race in race out), and when his teammate is not allowed even a win in an almost done WDC (many points ahead in a dominant car), I wouldnt be excited by just watching how fast he can drive a Ross Brawn car...

Cause any F1 driver driving a F1 car is fast (at least faster than me in my car)... So again, speed is relative to how others are doing... If you (or MS with his team around him) dont allow us to check him against a good standard, his speed means nothing...

Not to diminish him, but I would reserve that amount of excitment to when (if) I ever seen (or see) him doing this against someone like FA, JB, LH, Kimi, etc... in the same conditions... Until then, we will never know if he was that fast, or if it were Ross Brawn and his engineers...

Just look at what JB did: he decided to move to McL to face LH in a team already used to LH... That is a mark of a great men looking forward to prove himself... and not afraid of getting beating (in case it happens)...

Completely opposed to a supposedly greatest driver ever who only faced second category drivers in a #2 status by contract...

Edited by shields

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I think I'm right but Happy Birthday, Mr Schumacher.

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I would agree to that if he have (ever) had a decent teammate that was at least allowed to win when he performed better...

Speed is a relative thing.

Karts can be much slower than F1, but because you can see two drivers with (about) the same equipement, you can get excited about how good someone is...

But when you have a driver in F1 that get all priorities over his teammate, no DNFs in years (while his teammate had one DNF race in race out), and when his teammate is not allowed even a win in an almost done WDC (many points ahead in a dominant car), I wouldnt be excited by just watching how fast he can drive a Ross Brawn car...

Cause any F1 driver driving a F1 car is fast (at least faster than me in my car)... So again, speed is relative to how others are doing... If you (or MS with his team around him) dont allow us to check him against a good standard, his speed means nothing...

Not to diminish him, but I would reserve that amount of excitment to when (if) I ever seen (or see) him doing this against someone like FA, JB, LH, Kimi, etc... in the same conditions... Until then, we will never know if he was that fast, or if it were Ross Brawn and his engineers...

Just look at what JB did: he decided to move to McL to face LH in a team already used to LH... That is a mark of a great men looking forward to prove himself... and not afraid of getting beating (in case it happens)...

Completely opposed to a supposedly greatest driver ever who only faced second category drivers in a #2 status by contract...

I have always believed that every team mate of Michael's has had the same opportunity. It's what you do with that opportunity that counts. Michael has always stamped his authority on team mates by asserting himself, not only on track, but by putting in the out of hours effort equired to be at the top level and gain ultimate respect. It's the full package; fast, fit and fully committed. Yes, daunting to a team mate. The only other driver I see who understands it, who's acting it out in repeat performance, is Lewis. He understands it too. It's not rocket science but it can't be easy or they would all be doing it. Michael's driving took care of itself. It was an area he didn't concern himself with, so he concerned himself with other things too and gained a deeper understanding.

For me, it was never about controlling a team mate. It was about knowing the best way to achieve a goal. Michael understood that the best way to win a WDC was to get the full effort of his team. Once he proved it, he earned their trust and they backed him all the way. You may disagree with the methodology, but I think it's cold and calculated genius. It's sport at its most precise. Crystal clear thought process on the best way to get a job done.

So Jenson Button is less afraid than Michael because he is jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire? Well, if making a comeback at 41 years old, after three years out and no testing is somehow less of a challenge, I'm here waiting to be convinced. He wont have preference because he will have to prove himself all over again. Just like he did all them years ago.

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I have always believed that every team mate of Michael's has had the same opportunity. It's what you do with that opportunity that counts. Michael has always stamped his authority on team mates by asserting himself, not only on track, but by putting in the out of hours effort equired to be at the top level and gain ultimate respect. It's the full package; fast, fit and fully committed. Yes, daunting to a team mate. The only other driver I see who understands it, who's acting it out in repeat performance, is Lewis. He understands it too. It's not rocket science but it can't be easy or they would all be doing it. Michael's driving took care of itself. It was an area he didn't concern himself with, so he concerned himself with other things too and gained a deeper understanding.

For me, it was never about controlling a team mate. It was about knowing the best way to achieve a goal. Michael understood that the best way to win a WDC was to get the full effort of his team. Once he proved it, he earned their trust and they backed him all the way. You may disagree with the methodology, but I think it's cold and calculated genius. It's sport at its most precise. Crystal clear thought process on the best way to get a job done.

So Jenson Button is less afraid than Michael because he is jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire? Well, if making a comeback at 41 years old, after three years out and no testing is somehow less of a challenge, I'm here waiting to be convinced. He wont have preference because he will have to prove himself all over again. Just like he did all them years ago.

hmm - Generally fair enough post, although I'm not sure that Rubens was given an entirely even chance in their later seasons together. You could say that by that time Schumi had already proved himself by his hard work and thus deserved it - which I would tend to agree with.

I guess the debate is over perceived, undeserved, preferential treatment verses working you arse off and thus deserving any preferential treatment that comes you way. Schumi had a great work ethic and so whinging about him getting better treatment at Ferrari than Rubens begs the answer, - 'Rubens should have worked harder.' You are right though, Schumi would always put more in - it was/is the very embodiment of his desire to win.

The red sentence I tend to disagree with though. He will get preferential treatment to Rosberg. He has proved himself before (especially with Brawn) and the team will know from the get go that their hope of retaining the WCC rests with Schumi.

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I would agree to that if he have (ever) had a decent teammate that was at least allowed to win when he performed better...

Speed is a relative thing.

Karts can be much slower than F1, but because you can see two drivers with (about) the same equipement, you can get excited about how good someone is...

But when you have a driver in F1 that get all priorities over his teammate, no DNFs in years (while his teammate had one DNF race in race out), and when his teammate is not allowed even a win in an almost done WDC (many points ahead in a dominant car), I wouldnt be excited by just watching how fast he can drive a Ross Brawn car...

Cause any F1 driver driving a F1 car is fast (at least faster than me in my car)... So again, speed is relative to how others are doing... If you (or MS with his team around him) dont allow us to check him against a good standard, his speed means nothing...

Not to diminish him, but I would reserve that amount of excitment to when (if) I ever seen (or see) him doing this against someone like FA, JB, LH, Kimi, etc... in the same conditions... Until then, we will never know if he was that fast, or if it were Ross Brawn and his engineers...

Just look at what JB did: he decided to move to McL to face LH in a team already used to LH... That is a mark of a great men looking forward to prove himself... and not afraid of getting beating (in case it happens)...

Completely opposed to a supposedly greatest driver ever who only faced second category drivers in a #2 status by contract...

Welcome to the forums!

An opinion should not be passed around as fact, so starting from that, I disagree with most of your post!

MS was an active driver between 1992-2006! You didn't get to see him drive long enough in order to decide if he is "fast" or not?

And what about the "second category" drivers?

Rubens and Massa especially are among the strongest drivers on the grid. You saw MS vs FM and FM vs Kimi. Where you blinded by Kimi's performance or was FM blown to bits by the -"extraterrestrial talent" of KR??

And I won't even deal with the "contractual slowness". Why don't you post us a page of MS's or Felippe's contract then?

Actually there is no point to start debating this!

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I would agree to that if he have (ever) had a decent teammate that was at least allowed to win when he performed better...

Speed is a relative thing.

Karts can be much slower than F1, but because you can see two drivers with (about) the same equipement, you can get excited about how good someone is...

But when you have a driver in F1 that get all priorities over his teammate, no DNFs in years (while his teammate had one DNF race in race out), and when his teammate is not allowed even a win in an almost done WDC (many points ahead in a dominant car), I wouldnt be excited by just watching how fast he can drive a Ross Brawn car...

Cause any F1 driver driving a F1 car is fast (at least faster than me in my car)... So again, speed is relative to how others are doing... If you (or MS with his team around him) dont allow us to check him against a good standard, his speed means nothing...

Not to diminish him, but I would reserve that amount of excitment to when (if) I ever seen (or see) him doing this against someone like FA, JB, LH, Kimi, etc... in the same conditions... Until then, we will never know if he was that fast, or if it were Ross Brawn and his engineers...

Just look at what JB did: he decided to move to McL to face LH in a team already used to LH... That is a mark of a great men looking forward to prove himself... and not afraid of getting beating (in case it happens)...

Completely opposed to a supposedly greatest driver ever who only faced second category drivers in a #2 status by contract...

You're an idiot. You can't make the effort to engage your brain because it's much easier to post crap or just shovel other peoples crap around, because you are too stupid to even create your own crap.

Decent teammate? Either he never had a decent teammate, in which case the teammate wsn't good enough to win anyway, or he had teammates who sometimes performed better, in which case THEY WERE DECENT TEAMMATES. DID OYU GET THAT? DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW WHAT YOU SAID MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE? DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL? EVER TOOK PART IN A DEBATE? OR WERE YOU THE KID TOO SCARED TO EVER SPEAK UP AND ASK A QUESTION? SEE WHERE IT GOT YOU. YOU ARE STUPID, YOUR OPINIONS ARE STUPID, THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN AIR THEM IS A FORUM WHERE WITH ANONYMITY AND LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY YOU CAN ESCAPE WITH STUPIDITY. YOU FAIL AT LIFE.

MS let his teammates ahead under team orders at least as many times as he received any advantage of them. Is there any other driver on the grid, who gave up a win like Indy 2002 for his teammate, who set up a whole fvcking championship for his teammate who still couldn't win it??

DECENT TEAMMATE? ALL THREE OF his last TEAMMATES CAME WITHIN A HAIR'S BREADTH OF WINNING THE CHAMPIONSHIP. THEY'RE NOT DECENT DRIVERS? WHO IS THEN? YOUR MOM?

AND YOU FINISH BY TALKING ABOUT BUTTON? BUTTON? I AM A BIG FAN OF BUTTON, I RECOGNISED HIS CAPABILITY LONG BEFORE OTHERS DID. BUT ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING HIS MOVE TO MCLAREN IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN going for what he sees as his best option for 2010, just like Alonso did when he ditched Renault?

Blockheaded baboons like oyu said he left the sport because he was scared of Kimi. Guess what - he is prepared to come back at 41. Forty fvcking one. He's not scared. Especially not of you, or pussy drivers who run off to WRC.

Why were you even born?

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Indeed. Now let me light that for you.

Edited by dribbler

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Oh, yes Shields, by the way...have I introduced you to Cavallino? I think you two will get along just fine.

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I think I'm right but Happy Birthday, Mr Schumacher.

I am glad to find this post I just came to this thread to wish a happy birthday to Michael. :clap3:

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MS let his teammates ahead under team orders at least as many times as he received any advantage of them. Is there any other driver on the grid, who gave up a win like Indy 2002 for his teammate, who set up a whole fvcking championship for his teammate who still couldn't win it??

Take and apply some of your recommendations to shields.

Austria 2002 was the 6th race while Indy was the 16th and Michael had won the Championship by then. If Michael had needed the points for the Championship you know it would have not happened. I liked his gesture on that but it was just that, a nice gesture.

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You're an idiot. You can't make the effort to engage your brain because it's much easier to post crap or just shovel other peoples crap around, because you are too stupid to even create your own crap.

Decent teammate? Either he never had a decent teammate, in which case the teammate wsn't good enough to win anyway, or he had teammates who sometimes performed better, in which case THEY WERE DECENT TEAMMATES. DID OYU GET THAT? DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW WHAT YOU SAID MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE? DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL? EVER TOOK PART IN A DEBATE? OR WERE YOU THE KID TOO SCARED TO EVER SPEAK UP AND ASK A QUESTION? SEE WHERE IT GOT YOU. YOU ARE STUPID, YOUR OPINIONS ARE STUPID, THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN AIR THEM IS A FORUM WHERE WITH ANONYMITY AND LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY YOU CAN ESCAPE WITH STUPIDITY. YOU FAIL AT LIFE.

MS let his teammates ahead under team orders at least as many times as he received any advantage of them. Is there any other driver on the grid, who gave up a win like Indy 2002 for his teammate, who set up a whole fvcking championship for his teammate who still couldn't win it??

DECENT TEAMMATE? ALL THREE OF his last TEAMMATES CAME WITHIN A HAIR'S BREADTH OF WINNING THE CHAMPIONSHIP. THEY'RE NOT DECENT DRIVERS? WHO IS THEN? YOUR MOM?

AND YOU FINISH BY TALKING ABOUT BUTTON? BUTTON? I AM A BIG FAN OF BUTTON, I RECOGNISED HIS CAPABILITY LONG BEFORE OTHERS DID. BUT ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING HIS MOVE TO MCLAREN IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN going for what he sees as his best option for 2010, just like Alonso did when he ditched Renault?

Blockheaded baboons like oyu said he left the sport because he was scared of Kimi. Guess what - he is prepared to come back at 41. Forty fvcking one. He's not scared. Especially not of you, or pussy drivers who run off to WRC.

Why were you even born?

Cavallino. This disappoints me coming from you. It annoys me to f*ck that somebody who claims to be as intelligent as you resorting to telling somebody they fail at life. For an opinion on which I don't really agree with myself, where is your structure?

You want to have a go at me, be my guest. But thats unfair.

Maybe Schumacher should have stayed the f*ck away from F1 if this is what I read from you.

Await your response...

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Sooooo....

Can Nico beat Schumacher?

I thought he did quite a good job in a crap car last season. Can he carry that momentum forward?

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Nico is the one who really looses out in this whole affair. Either he beats Michael and people will say he beat a once great driver who came back for fun and never really had a chance of being good again, or he is beaten by MS and he will be the next Rubins or Eddie or whom ever you want to compare him to.

The only way he can survive 3 years as MS's team mate is if he pulls a Massa by becoming his protoge which I find very unlikely.

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OK I can see the MS-came-back-for-fun thing surviving the wash for the first half of the season, but not more than that....that is if Nico can beat him, which was more my question, not really if his career will suffer (or not).

Are you thus proposing that no matter whom MS has as a team mate, they are doomed either to be an Irvine, or to live purely in MS's shadow, and any results they obtain, say outracing MS, that it was because MS was just there for fun, and wasn't trying so therefore and QED the other driver was gifted the results and is not a true indictment of their abilities? Would Lewis be in the same boat as Nico if MS was at Macca, or is it because Nico has yet to prove his worth by not having a race win?

....but then he's not once had a race winning car.....

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OK I can see the MS-came-back-for-fun thing surviving the wash for the first half of the season, but not more than that....that is if Nico can beat him, which was more my question, not really if his career will suffer (or not).

Are you thus proposing that no matter whom MS has as a team mate, they are doomed either to be an Irvine, or to live purely in MS's shadow, and any results they obtain, say outracing MS, that it was because MS was just there for fun, and wasn't trying so therefore and QED the other driver was gifted the results and is not a true indictment of their abilities? Would Lewis be in the same boat as Nico if MS was at Macca, or is it because Nico has yet to prove his worth by not having a race win?

....but then he's not once had a race winning car.....

Totally agree!!

Or as Damon Hill said, he 'll probably remember through the season why he retired the first place!!

It looks like middle-age crisis to me :P !!

But with his kind of talent and commitment, he can definitely pull it off...

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Stop bashing Nico! He will do a great job, as Schumi's grid girl.

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In the "Things ain't what they used to be" department, apparently not all is well at the magic kingdom:

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/155603/1/schumacher_f1_signing_slammed_by_mercedes_board.html

Just think: If Norbert Haug had engineered the return of M.S. to a Mercedes car two years ago for the then paltry sum of 7 million Euros he would have been given a parade.

Umm very little here has to do with Schumacher, escept the headline that some hack cooked up. They have problems with going into F1, which, in the year Honda and Toyota pulled out isn't surprising..

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Take and apply some of your recommendations to shields.

Austria 2002 was the 6th race while Indy was the 16th and Michael had won the Championship by then. If Michael had needed the points for the Championship you know it would have not happened. I liked his gesture on that but it was just that, a nice gesture.

I thought the problem most people had with Austria 2002 was that Schumacher didn't need those points since the Ferrari was too fast anyway.

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Cavallino. This disappoints me coming from you. It annoys me to f*ck that somebody who claims to be as intelligent as you resorting to telling somebody they fail at life. For an opinion on which I don't really agree with myself, where is your structure?

You want to have a go at me, be my guest. But thats unfair.

Maybe Schumacher should have stayed the f*ck away from F1 if this is what I read from you.

Await your response...

It annoys the f*ck out of me that someone can make as stupid a post as the one I replied to and can't be bothered using the ability to think. I am not going to bother making a reasoned reply to someone spewing garbage like that.

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It annoys the f*ck out of me that someone can make as stupid a post as the one I replied to and can't be bothered using the ability to think. I am not going to bother making a reasoned reply to someone spewing garbage like that.

It annoys me too, but not responding atall carries more weight and has a better long term effect than the response you gave.

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