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LabradoRacer

2 True Religions/Gods

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I didn't intend this thread to be about religion-bashing (though it's a welcome bonus biggrin.gif ) . It's just that when you peel away the religion layer of any incident (whether good or bad, peaceful or violent) committed in the name of religion, you end up with an act that is a lot more understandable (or can somewhat empathise with). I mean, though it may sound perverse, the acts come across as a lot more human (as in with frailities, wants, desires, etc) For eg, suicide bombing? Well, think of it as a way out of grinding poverty , or the promise held out that your family will be taken care of, or just an act of hositility by the have-nots against the haves, or simply a case of psychopathic behaviour (admit it, you never fantasized about killing annoying people? tongue.gif ). Assassination attempts, like the one on the cartoonist, can treated as simply as being a one-time hitman to make a living. Or the conversion thing, it's an expression of wanting other humans to be like-minded in certain aspects (to be fair to the missionaries, this is easy to understand, I myself want to 'convert' all the world to atheism).

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Ahh...because he was one of them gays? And god don't like them gays....

Some reports suggest he got it from a woman.

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You know what Chris, asking me if I am a fanatic about non-religion is genius. Very good question.

Maybe I am, I try not to be. The amount of time I have searched my soul for the whole and looked into my heart to see if I could follow a religion I cannot tell you. But I have tried to look for the good. Maybe its me, but I just can't find it and I never will. I have tried so hard, its not for want of not trying.

I understand what you are saying. Variety is the spice of life.But you'll find in every religion, the same thing is preached. Equality. There will never be equality within the different races of human whilst religion exists. Why?

Hierarchy within itself stands to reason. Priests, Monks, Opus Dei, Vicars, Bishops, Archbishops right to The Pope himself. What gives to let a vicar be married with children, but not a priest.

If there was anything I truly believed in, thats not a religion - it would be The Illuminati (the enlightened ones). I hear a few of you hitch in your breath, and see your mind screaming "EVIL". Not so. The Illuminati was created to prove that God and Science could exist alongside each other. No religion in the world (apart from Scientology) will have that concept. Its funny, as I have a Knights Templar relative, and funnily enough a few years back, me and my mother were clearing through some really old papers, transcripts etc from my relatives now long dead. My mother found an Illuminati journal. My great great grandfather's name signed on the inside.

Anyway, I digress on the Illuminati. I do not think we should 'follow' anything, be it those or religion. We should follow our own truths.

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If we had the right calculator we might be able to come up with a total of the number of people killed in the name of religion over the last two thousand years (give or take).

People kill people ih the name of all kinds of crap. People killing people is wrong. That's the only thing they all have in common though, that they kill people. So we ban people killing people.

If you read Mein Kampf, and happen to be a research historian (as am I) you'd know that Hitler was into religion in a MAJOR way. He wanted to obtain the Holy Grail, the Staff of Ra, the Holy sepulchre, and sent his nazi's after many treasured religious artefacts apparently scattered all over the world. He was obsessed with eternal life. The true goal of Hitler was to exterminate the Jews as a way of becoming closer to God. He wanted to rule the world. Become God's right hand. Its all well documented. People such as Himmler, Goebels, Hoess catered to this at face value to Hitler in order to fulfil their own sick fantasies.

I'm not being insensitive when I say this, but perhaps a little research yourself, you will see just how much of a religious nut Hitler was. The Swastika symbol itself was taken from Egyptian religion. Its name was hakenkreuz in German, translating to Hooked Cross. Even the SS symbol. Two bolts of lightning - the symbol of God casting down Lucifer into Hell.

The one thing I will not tolerate on any level is people denying the Holocaust.

Religion killed six million Jews. Fact.

Some of the most wonderful people I know are religious. Would I try to 'deconvert' them - No - often their belief is what makes them the people they are. I don't however go wow you are so awesome therefore x religion is so awesome. You're doing the opposite, but you're equally wrong.

Religion took away the freedom of people to think in the first place. It is a form of mind control. I truly believe you are more free believing what you believe whether you be at work, shopping, taking a shower, feeding your kids. Rather than follow a sect that demands certain rituals and acts to be carried out in order for you to be accepted. Chris, I totally respect you but I beg to differ. Nothing will change my stubborn mind.

See. With religion I'm on early parole. It and I did not mix. Thats just something in my head, and my beliefs. I do respect yours however. Just disagree.

I went to a convent school for the first 2 years of senior or what you call High School. I did nothing but fight and argue with the nuns and the other girls. I got sent to an all boys school and had the best years of my education. No religion. No oppression. Thats just me.

I went to convent school for 2 years. It was the best school in town. Not sure if I made any point there.

You only have to step into the global warming thread to see the freedom to think isn't helping some people too much.. Or at leaast they aren't willing to use that freedom.

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You know what Chris, asking me if I am a fanatic about non-religion is genius. Very good question.

Maybe I am, I try not to be. The amount of time I have searched my soul for the whole and looked into my heart to see if I could follow a religion I cannot tell you. But I have tried to look for the good. Maybe its me, but I just can't find it and I never will. I have tried so hard, its not for want of not trying.

A happy medium is all I seek. Many atheists on the forum might have heard of Atheism 3.0, whose main point is "There is no God, but Religion might not be completely bad."

I understand what you are saying. Variety is the spice of life.But you'll find in every religion, the same thing is preached. Equality. There will never be equality within the different races of human whilst religion exists. Why?

The reason why is part of the human condition, isn't it? No two human beings are 100% alike, and I'm including identical twins in here. Because no two humans are 100% alike, they never will be equal because one might have an advantage to another in some way. That being said, some people succeed more easily than others, and we should not enforce equality by bringing those people down.

Hierarchy within itself stands to reason. Priests, Monks, Opus Dei, Vicars, Bishops, Archbishops right to The Pope himself. What gives to let a vicar be married with children, but not a priest.

I'm not well versed on every title of church authority, but from what I can remember, the only official members allowed to marry are deacons. They're the ones who took enough seminary hours and religious teaching to preach, but not go about performing the entire mass service.

If there was anything I truly believed in, thats not a religion - it would be The Illuminati (the enlightened ones). I hear a few of you hitch in your breath, and see your mind screaming "EVIL". Not so. The Illuminati was created to prove that God and Science could exist alongside each other. No religion in the world (apart from Scientology) will have that concept. Its funny, as I have a Knights Templar relative, and funnily enough a few years back, me and my mother were clearing through some really old papers, transcripts etc from my relatives now long dead. My mother found an Illuminati journal. My great great grandfather's name signed on the inside.

God and Science can live side by side. Hell I'm using a computer and the internet, right? If it weren't for science, we wouldn't have many of our modern day medical procedures and cars. If I remember right, the Catholic Church said years ago that it was acceptable for Catholics to hold belief in Evolution. As for the Illuminati journal, very interesting.

Anyway, I digress on the Illuminati. I do not think we should 'follow' anything, be it those or religion. We should follow our own truths.

Religion is mostly about the search for truth. Some people have different versions of the truth.

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I'm affiliated with a group that does regular volunteer stuff around schools in the area (mostly anti-drug/alcohol, anti-violence, etc). We have no religious affiliation.

But if we weren't receiving funding from grants due to our educational affiliation, we'd probably need a religious affiliation to do what we do.

An individual can volunteer without being religious. An individual is not an organization. It's harder for an organization to appeal to potential funders without having a religion. I can name one secular private high school within an hour of my house. The nicest high schools in the area as far as facilities, technology, food, etc go? The ones that are getting a Sh#t-ton of cash from the church.

For the record, I go to public school. My school failed in facilities, failed in technology, failed in safety, failed in asbestos, failed in handicap accessibility, failed in having fire sprinklers (it doesn't), failed in being aesthetically pleasing, failed in cafeteria, failed in funding, failed in meeting the state physical education requirement...but got the highest score in education. So at least I won't be stupid. Oh, and we don't have an alarming level of radon. Just a bit here and there. Not enough to, you know, fix anything.

See? God exists and He's punishing my school for teaching mean bad science :(

Some reports suggest he got it from a woman.

And then gave it to five more.

Tim Richmond had a thing for...women of debatable morals, so to speak. Horses, with a w, and the lack of the first s.

There's also a poster of him from the 1987 Winston where he's holding his cane near his crotch, and then he convinced everyone he had his genitals hanging out, so they airbrushed the poster before printing. Tee hee.

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Take for example Catholicism.

Lies from day one. Stole the pagan celebration for winter, turned it into Christmas. Burned innocent women at the stake and so forth.

Its an oppressive way to keep us in check. Well, f*ck that. I'm not part of the masses and I never will be.

:clap3:

Faith is the worst curse of mankind, as the exact antithesis and enemy of thought. -Ayn Rand

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If that's what you meant in your previous post I think we use a different dictionary for those concepts. In my opinion Hitler was a hardcore fan of esotericism, in no way he was a religious person and he never showed a true belief in God. Many people in History have commited crimes in the name of Yahweh, God, Allah... when they were looking for money, power, land...

If God says love your neighbor like yourself and you ask God who is my neighbor? And God replies even your arch enemy is your neighbor. If God says forgive your neighbor and you ask God how many times? And God replies always. How can we blame God for our crimes? We have many good things just because of those words but most of us are not up to the task. If I could ask for something in my life I would ask for a rock-solid faith in God but unfortunately money, health or happiness would come to my mind first.

A nice post, but irrelevant. God and religion are two completely different things. You can still believe without having to follow a particular sect - which is what my point is.

I admire those with a rock solid faith in something. I still to this day question my beliefs. I will never truly accept what I cannot see with my own two eyes and have not experienced in my own life. Fate to me is bullsh*t. Destiny also. You make your own choice, thus lead the life you choose to lead.

As children, most of our choices are made for us, until we are of the age where we question things ourselves. As parents we try to imprint our knowledge and dreams onto our children. I am not a parent, so I cannot possibly comprehend to what extent. But I am my fathers daughter so thus know what it is like from that scale (as do we all)

If I ever do become a parent (unlikely) - I would hope to raise my child to make their own mind up. Nurture what they seem to have talent for.

I will never push my beliefs onto them. I will share, yes. If my child has an eye for the church, then so be it. I won't stop them.

Eric - my point has been humans have created religion, but religion has and will continue to create monsters.

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God and religion are two completely different things. You can still believe without having to follow a particular sect - which is what my point is.

God and religion are not two completely different things. When you believe in God you necessarily express your beliefs through religion, so you do not honestly believe in God if you deny religion. Because of that, when people believe in a deity they make groups where they share their beliefs with each other. These groups are what you can call sects, not religion itself.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao... killed millions of people because of their prejudices against religion. That was my point.

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God and religion are not two completely different things. When you believe in God you necessarily express your beliefs through religion, so you do not honestly believe in God if you deny religion. Because of that, when people believe in a deity they make groups where they share their beliefs with each other. These groups are what you can call sects, not religion itself.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao... killed millions of people because of their prejudices against religion. That was my point.

Yes! They are. And no, you don't.

I know people, LOTS of people who believe in God, yet don't go to church, do not discuss God with their friends. Hands up those who do believe and choose not to discuss? Your point is completely invalid, and 101% wrong. Sorry Ale, but thats how it is.

Hitler killed because he was OBSESSED with Religion as stated earlier. Stalin did kill, granted. But did you know he also saved millions of lives? It was him who hid Hitlers rotting decomposing corpse in ammunition cases and shipped to all four corners of the world. Imagine if Hitler's body had have been buried. Multiple DNA tests, cloning? There would have been a shrine to his memory, right at his very graveside. A shrine to millions of Nazi's.

Don't tell me that religion and God are the same, because they are not. They never were and they never will be.

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God and religion same?

No, that's like saying that banks and money are the same thing.

I don't have to believe in banks to use money.

Banks, like religion are a human construct - an organisation and set of rules.

And as humans are involved, religion, just like banks has a habit of going pear-shaped and being bent for personal/political purposes.

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I know people, LOTS of people who believe in God, yet don't go to church, do not discuss God with their friends. Hands up those who do believe and choose not to discuss? Your point is completely invalid, and 101% wrong. Sorry Ale, but thats how it is.

If you know they believe in God it is just because they express their beliefs, don't you think? The rest of your comment has very little to do with my previous post as I never mentioned a word about going to church, discuss with friends...

Hitler killed because he was OBSESSED with Religion as stated earlier. Stalin did kill, granted. But did you know he also saved millions of lives? It was him who hid Hitlers rotting decomposing corpse in ammunition cases and shipped to all four corners of the world. Imagine if Hitler's body had have been buried. Multiple DNA tests, cloning? There would have been a shrine to his memory, right at his very graveside. A shrine to millions of Nazi's.

This is a very bad taste joke, right?

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000

Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)

Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

Don't tell me that religion and God are the same, because they are not. They never were and they never will be.

Go find where I said that religion and God are the same thing.

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In the previous post before mine.

'God and religion are not two completely different things'

Yes. They are. Granted, you didn't say same thing so I can concede. But you must also concede that your statement can be taken that way. Deal?

No offence Alex. I like you. But how bloody blind are you? If it was a bad joke, i'd have said HaHa. But I haven't. Really, Ale. Look at it like this. If it was not for Josef Stalin HIDING HITLERS DAMNED BODY IN AMMUNITION CASES AND SCATTERING IT IN DIFFERENT CORNERS OF THE EARTH, THE NAZI'S WOULD STILL BE IN POWER. Look. If he'd have been buried, how many sick f*cking people would have loved to exhume him and perform DNA tests on his stank corpse. How many Nazi's would be preaching to their kids at Hitler's graveside how great he was? I know Stalin was a b#####d. How many lives has he saved from preventing the above, by simply hiding Adolf, forever. You can keep your statistics pages. This one's a matter of opinion, and I know the stats too.

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When will people of this forum ever learn :rolleyes:

There is only one church and its god is named Schumi.

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When will people of this forum ever learn :rolleyes:

There is only one church and its god is named Schumi Liuzzi.

You heathen. <_<

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You heathen. <_<

Off with your head :ph34r:

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Glad you have your chain mail armour on ;)

Well to be honest when it comes to Mao-Tse-tung, Stalin, Hitler, etc, comparing their relative level of evil by body count is all a bit pointless.....

Oh you sneaky little ninja b#####d! Thats it.

I might have my chainmail on. Only to protect myself from Henry. :roll:

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Oh you sneaky little ninja b#####d! Thats it.

I might have my chainmail on. Only to protect myself from Henry. :roll:

Oh so you have chain-mail for real then do you? :eusa_think:

I bet you've got a load of swords too....

Stepho Warrior Princess lol

Oh sorry that was one of Andres' fantasies :D

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When will people of this forum ever learn rolleyes.gif

There is only one church and its god is named Schumi.

The only true religion is Ferrari and Alonso is his prophet.

Schumi is Mercedes' prodigal son. tongue.gif

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Oh so you have chain-mail for real then do you? :eusa_think:

I bet you've got a load of swords too....

Stepho Warrior Princess lol

Oh sorry that was one of Andres' fantasies :D

I hate you deeply.

Yes. I have chainmail. And six replica swords from Lord of the Rings. WITH NAMES!

At least I don't call myself Grabthaw. Claim to eat babies and kill kittens. I bet you call your manhood something stupid too. Like Flowerpot Girl or something.

Bring it Chris! Tanita knows your little Henry secret too remember! :roll:

That'd be your religion though. :lol: -falls about laughing-

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I hate you deeply.

Yes. I have chainmail. And six replica swords from Lord of the Rings. WITH NAMES!

At least I don't call myself Grabthaw. Claim to eat babies and kill kittens. I bet you call your manhood something stupid too. Like Flowerpot Girl or something.

Bring it Chris! Tanita knows your little Henry secret too remember! :roll:

That'd be your religion though. :lol: -falls about laughing-

If you were Chinese, I could say I found the chink in your armor :P

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As most of us listen and watch the awful and deplorable state of the people in Haiti one of America's finest explains it all. The right reverand Pat Robertson, televangelist and millionaire. Here's just one of many links capsulating his comments:

http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/8460520.stm

If you have no familiarity with this piece of garbage think of him as sort of a Bernie Ecclestone type but without the charm. Has too much money and power, is well past his prime, and is sufficiently old and dim-witted so that there is little to no self-censorship when he opens his mouth. What a loathsome, self-aggrandizing and thoroughly reprehensible excuse of a human being, and yet... he has had millions of followers over a period of decades and has accumulated great wealth all in the name of preaching god's word.

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As most of us listen and watch the awful and deplorable state of the people in Haiti one of America's finest explains it all. The right reverand Pat Robertson, televangelist and millionaire. Here's just one of many links capsulating his comments:

http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/8460520.stm

If you have no familiarity with this piece of garbage think of him as sort of a Bernie Ecclestone type but without the charm. Has too much money and power, is well past his prime, and is sufficiently old and dim-witted so that there is little to no self-censorship when he opens his mouth. What a loathsome, self-aggrandizing and thoroughly reprehensible excuse of a human being, and yet... he has had millions of followers over a period of decades and has accumulated great wealth all in the name of preaching god's word.

:lol: I didn't know Pat was still alive. My congratulations for Mr.Gibbs for his words!

Someday USA will have to stop looking at Christian Fundamentalists (or "Unique Denominations" as Martin Gardner used to call them in his many articles against these scums) as just an important group of leaders for voters that should be pampered and instead regard them with at least (if not more) as much prevention as they look at Muslim Fundamentalists.

Tthese guys were a liability for decades, being the driving force behind many of USA worst interventions abroad. They comments were usually full of hatred towards homosexuals, communists (homosexual and communists defined as anybody who didn't believe in the prehistoric superstitious crap they believed in)

Those guys are the real western version Bin Laden.

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