gaetanomarano

A Safer Roll-Bar For Formula Cars

44 posts in this topic

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my idea of a better and safer roll-bar may help save the driver's life to avoid

accidents like those that have killed Henry Surtees, and injured Felipe Massa

to avoid other accidents and deaths, I believe it should be added from 2010!

in my opinion, all the people that want SAFER CARS should support this idea!

of course, the drawing shows a BASIC concept to be made in BETTER ways

002rollbar.jpg

.

Edited by gaetanomarano

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I'm not commenting on that particular aid but if they're looking for zero risk they should stay home or go ahead and kill F1 racing completely.

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If the vertical rods are close enough they could probably stop a wheel approaching from the side or even from ahead (if positioned horisontally). With proper positioning you could probably have those bars out of the way of the mirrors.

Still, with open c#ckpit race cars you cannot have full protection. That roll-bar would not have stopped the spring that injured Massa or other parts small enough to get through. A whole engine could probably get through coming from ahead.

I wonder why a c#ckpit canopy has not been discussed, or even covering the wheels (Both these measures would produce faster cars) but I guess the (visual) purity of the cars is very important for the sport.

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Those anti roll bars are great! I support them for 2010!

Wait, we are not talking about implementing them on batracer but on actual F1 cars? Oh, then I'm afraid I don't support them. Well, they might still be useful considering the many old pops that will be racing this year. That would certainly help them get in and out of the car, if used as a support.

As for safety, those bars look like something prone to be expelled from a collapsing body of a car in a serious crash, so you will esentially end having two crowbars flying around at the closest car or spectator. Not that they will help much aerodinamically, either...

In short, they don't add significant protection against lateral G forces, they don't really protect the driver in the case of a rolling car...I am not sure what your idea is of extra protection these bars give.

Maybe you could ellaborate some more?

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if they're looking for zero risk they should stay home

my goal isn't a "zero risk" (that's clearly impossible) but only to better protect the drivers' head so they CAN go back home at race end... I think that Senna and Surtees (both killed by something that hit their head) could approve my idea... if alive...

.

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That roll-bar would not have stopped the spring that injured Massa or other parts small enough to get through.

yes, it's not sure, but very probable that it would have stopped or slowed the spring

.

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Maybe you could ellaborate some more?

as I've already said, it's just a concept to show my idea, the real roll-bar could be different and I'm already thinking to other possible shapes

.

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how about a big, jelly-like, translucent marshmallow instead of helmets?

EDIT - sorry - less snide answer... (but still rather blunt)

1) You have no lateral support at the front bend in those side bars - they would just get crushed inward if a lateral force was applied.

2) You have no diagonal reinforment either - they would just fold up with any pressure.

3) The line running from the top of the car to the nose already protects the driver c#ckpit in case of a roll - more so than your roll bars.

4) Objects coming from the front (from where the car is actually heading) are no more deflected with your design than currently.

5) You seem to be mixed up with the concept of a roll bar and a protective cage.

6) The diameter of those bars and the way they ae connected to the chasis means that they'd be pretty easily snapped off.

7) If you want to make drivers safer you would do better to increase the level of protection provided by the c#ckpit sides, c#ckpit back and helmet in unison. If you try to add another layer of protection, it's pointless unless its stronger than that that exists.

8) It wouldn't be long before a wheel, front wing or other debris snaps one of those bars off and stabs it into a driver's head.

Edited by adamstrags

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Bah, load of bollocks, it would be far safer if the steering wheel was where the pedals are, and have the driver inserted head first into the c#ckpit - a little window on the nosecone and we're sorted. And 'cos the drivers feet would be where his head is now, he could just kick debri out of the way. Simple.

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Bah, load of bollocks, it would be far safer if the steering wheel was where the pedals are, and have the driver inserted head first into the c#ckpit - a little window on the nosecone and we're sorted. And 'cos the drivers feet would be where his head is now, he could just kick debri out of the way. Simple.

Cons: Kubica would not fit and Sutil's rear would be too loose.

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Cons: Kubica would not fit and Sutil's rear would be too loose.

I see your point about Kubi Andres - though the FIA might let it form part of the deformable structure, and they could always insert something heavy in Sutil's rear to prevent the looseness.

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I see your point about Kubi Andres - though the FIA might let it form part of the deformable structure, and they could always insert something heavy in Sutil's rear to prevent the looseness.

You'd have to cut a hole in the chasis to accomodate kubi's nose...

EDIT - extra downforce.

Renault for 2010 WDC.

Edited by adamstrags

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I wonder why a c#ckpit canopy has not been discussed, or even covering the wheels

It's called open wheel racing, you know, with the wheels OPEN. There's other kinds of racing if you prefer that.

my goal isn't a "zero risk" (that's clearly impossible) but only to better protect the drivers' head so they CAN go back home at race end... I think that Senna and Surtees (both killed by something that hit their head) could approve my idea... if alive...

.

I really don't know if they would approve of an easily snapped off rod that could impale a driver even better than flying debris impale a driver.

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Cons: Kubica would not fit and Sutil's rear would be too loose.

Kubica would fit, he said nosecone! eusa_think.gif

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I'm not commenting on that particular aid but if they're looking for zero risk they should stay home or go ahead and kill F1 racing completely.

This is the only response this thread needs. Perfect.

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Wait, you are basically on about taking the "open c*ckpit" aspect away from racing? Bad idea.

I see no reason why these are any more safe than the ones of current design. What in the unlikely event that these came loose over time and flew off? Unlikely, sure, but everybody thought a spring bouncing down a track was unlikely...

The fact of the matter is this: Everything has risk in life. From Formula One to walking down the stairs. There's a chance that someday, walking down the stairs you could trip and break your neck. But you don't live upstairs or downstairs constantly do you, to avoid that risk? You get on with your life. F1 drivers know the risk they are putting themselves at but have chosen to accept it and get on with their careers. If F1 was a 'perfectly safe-no fluffly bunnies hurt here' sport, I may actually be less interested in the sport. Whilst drivers safety is paramount and I hope I never witness a death in F1 in my lifetime, I also want an element of risk to remain. It's what makes F1 exciting.

Edited by JHS

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I was one of the first to criticise Gaetano's idea, but I think you guys are just reading whatever you want to read from his post and then replying.

He clearly said, and I quote:

my goal isn't a "zero risk" (that's clearly impossible) but only to better protect the drivers' head so they CAN go back home at race end

So bashing at him because a couple of bars do not seem like an improvement is one thing, criticisng him for wanting a "zero risk" F1 is entirely obfuscating.

Now, we can disagree on the design or even the degree of risk drivers should have to endure. I could be as unfair with you as you were unfair to him and just say: "Ok, if you want a dangerous F1 why not mandatory smoking at refuelling pitstops?" (the first one to point out that refuelling is banned will get a free kick in the gonads from yours truly) :P

For the record, I don't think F1 or F2 are unsafe at all. Accidents like those of Senna and Surtees happen. And life threatening accidents are very, very uncommons which is amazing. So I don't think improving safety is really that much of a priority. It is something that should always be considered, of course (this is no Roman Coliseum, after all), but nothing more. Of course, I amo not the one who's life is at risk, so I can play the macho role as no one will ever find out that I would probably p**s on my pants if I had to drive an F1 car past 1st gear. :P

The guy is new, give him a break, save your misdirected replies for once he gets to know us better ;)

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I was one of the first to criticise Gaetano's idea, but I think you guys are just reading whatever you want to read from his post and then replying.

He clearly said, and I quote:

So bashing at him because a couple of bars do not seem like an improvement is one thing, criticisng him for wanting a "zero risk" F1 is entirely obfuscating.

Now, we can disagree on the design or even the degree of risk drivers should have to endure. I could be as unfair with you as you were unfair to him and just say: "Ok, if you want a dangerous F1 why not mandatory smoking at refuelling pitstops?" (the first one to point out that refuelling is banned will get a free kick in the gonads from yours truly) :P

For the record, I don't think F1 or F2 are unsafe at all. Accidents like those of Senna and Surtees happen. And life threatening accidents are very, very uncommons which is amazing. So I don't think improving safety is really that much of a priority. It is something that should always be considered, of course (this is no Roman Coliseum, after all), but nothing more. Of course, I amo not the one who's life is at risk, so I can play the macho role as no one will ever find out that I would probably p**s on my pants if I had to drive an F1 car past 1st gear. :P

The guy is new, give him a break, save your misdirected replies for once he gets to know us better ;)

You don't think improving safety is important? Don't you think it should at least be considered?! OMG what a barbarian you are! If you want blood watch boxing man, jeez.

Yeah, I agree.

Edited by Nivola

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The guy is new, give him a break, save your misdirected replies for once he gets to know us better wink.gif

He just needs to rethink the design.

He didn't achieved his zero risk goal with that one. what.gif

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The guy is new, give him a break, save your misdirected replies for once he gets to know us better ;)

Well, thats why I think eject seats would be perfect....

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002rollbar.jpg

Is that a 2008 spec roll-bar? :D

I still think my idea of filling the tyres with custard instead of air is a good one as if they did hit the driver they would just go squelch :)

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For the record, I don't think F1 or F2 are unsafe at all. Accidents like those of Senna and Surtees happen. And life threatening accidents are very, very uncommons which is amazing. So I don't think improving safety is really that much of a priority. It is something that should always be considered, of course (this is no Roman Coliseum, after all), but nothing more. Of course, I amo not the one who's life is at risk, so I can play the macho role as no one will ever find out that I would probably p**s on my pants if I had to drive an F1 car past 1st gear. :P

This is the core of the sport; watching another person do something extremely well that we don't have the courage to do, even ineptly.

The guy is new, give him a break, save your misdirected replies for once he gets to know us better ;)

I disagree. Spank 'em early to save 'em pain later. ;)

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This is the core of the sport; watching another person do something extremely well that we don't have the courage to do, even ineptly.

I completely agree.

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First I though this was supposed to be a joke, it made me laugh.

Now I think this is supposed to be real, it makes me cry.

God kills a kitten for every stupid idea on the internet. Lets not make him kill more

kitten_paw_01.jpg

SAVE THIS KITTEN

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