mikathegreat2

Pre-Season Testing

122 posts in this topic

Difficult to judge. McLaren seems to be quick on old tyres, but Ferrari seems to get more of a boost on new boots. Red Bull possibly a bit fragile, ditto Toro Rosso. Lotus a bit of a handful according to Jarno. Virgin not screwed together properly yet. Sauber and Williams solid. Renault anonymous. Force India neat and tidy. Some will win races and some won't. But at least they'll turn up and have a go.

It's Force India that I'd suggest as the wild card. I'm a big believer in Mark Smith* and he's got more of an input in the car these days. He's not the most brilliant chassis guy out there, but he's solid. What I like is that he knows the job of Technical Director, yet has enough self-awareness to stick with what he's best at....chassis design (are you listening Geoff?)

Also, Mike 'The Copier' Coughlan is at Stefan GP. Say what you want about the ole cheater, but, like Alonso, he's got teh skilz.

*Here's Mark's racing CV. Not bad. Not bad at all.

before 1988 : graduated in mechanical engineering from the Wolverhampton University, first class honours

1988 : engineer > Comtec Composites

1989 : designer > Reynard (F3000)

1990 : designer > project Jordan (F1)

1991-1998 : designer, project manager > Jordan (F1)

1999-2000 : chief designer > Jordan (F1)

2001-2004 : chief designer > Benetton/Renault (F1)

start of 2005 : brief period at Jordan as technical director

2005-2007 : assistant technical director, technical director > Red Bull (F1)

2007-2010 : design director > Force India (F1)

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Interesting the Mclaren are running new endplates. I doesn't look as extreme as the other type.

post-2937-126738830774_thumb.png

Edited by Paprika

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Anyone in anything can go faster than anyone in anything else if one is any good at all in any reasonable car with small amounts of fuel.

Indeed. The proper way to look at testing is to first visit the team website and see if they've posted what work they're scheduled to do. Then look at the times of that team only throughout the weekend. You can get a very good idea of how they'll improve the car after each race by seeing how fast they can complete their testing program and actually make the car better at the end of the session.

Comparing times between teams during testing just screams "I'm ignorant, please point the way to the football and golf forums".

EDIT: I'm not disputing you, my insider friend, just adding to your thought.

Edited by Autumnpuma

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Went to take a look at the last hours of testing yesterday, I can say I'm deafer now than before XD Oh, and the McLaren looks great, though that red/orange paint they use might leave some people blind with time XD Schumi and Hammy played a game of tag under our very noses, having fun I suppose... And then, Virgin came out only for a while (preocuppying I'd say) but Lotus were even worse, they only came out in the last half hour, we thought: and what car is that? Never seen it before... XD

@Mike: that guy you're talking about seems to be good, Renault 2004, Red Bull afterwards and now Force India... he must have some magic :) And I'm glad for Force India, as most of us are too, I suppose.

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Times from final session yesterday:

1. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 1:20.472, 134 Laps

2. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:20.496, 61 Laps

3. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:20.539, 114 Laps

4. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 1:20.611, 100 Laps

5. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1:20.667, 76 Laps

6. Michael Schumacher, Mercedes GP, 1:20.745, 123 Laps

7. Rubens Barrichello, Williams, 1:20.870, 84 Laps

8. Kamui Kobayashi, BMW Sauber, 1:20.911, 67 Laps

9. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 1:22.135, 88 Laps

10. Robert Kubica, Renault, 1:23.175, 107 Laps

11. Heikki Kovalainen, Lotus, 1:25.251, 65 Laps

12. Lucas di Grassi, Virgin, 1:26.160, 49 Laps

Top 8 separated by .5 of a second, sounds more like qualifying rather than pre-season testing!

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Should be in for a facinating season! 12 days till we hear those engines again....

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A few teams seem to be in good form. It's hard to believe, there's always a team or two ahead.

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I'd say it's the normal suspects currently. Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and Mercedes in that order.

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I'd say it's the normal suspects currently. Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and Mercedes in that order.

Ross Brawn has something up his sleeve for Bahrain, believe me. All the chatter from Schumi is completely out of character. Expect them to be challenging for pole. The quite a lot of sandbagging going on at McLaren and Red Bull too. They will both be competitive but I believe Jens and Lewis have the edge in terms of a quick single lap and tyre management. Have Ferrari got a quick lap? We shall see. They certainly have the legs. Don't be surprised if Sutil or Kobayashi turn up on the front row either.

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Well, the closer the better in my eyes. As long as there is a red car leading when the chequered flag falls.

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It's worrying the fact that many said that qualifying will be critical as overtaking would be hardly a possibility on most tracks. That means that even if in theory we would be able to watch an amazing confrontation among many top drivers, in practice we will just see the usual processional race. If races will just be a 2 hours extended version on what happened in Q3, then it's going to be a very disappointing season, no matter who wins.

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It's worrying the fact that many said that qualifying will be critical as overtaking would be hardly a possibility on most tracks. That means that even if in theory we would be able to watch an amazing confrontation among many top drivers, in practice we will just see the usual processional race. If races will just be a 2 hours extended version on what happened in Q3, then it's going to be a very disappointing season, no matter who wins.

After a certain someone expressed such eager anticipation over the mix of drivers and teams for 2010 it seems as if the pressure of reporting from Bahrain is taking effect. wink.gif

While pre-season testing is, as we know, hardly the definitive word of where everyone stands, until races become "processional" I for one still feel an exceptional year in Formula 1 is about to start. And I'm certain the wit and wisdom of your words will carry the day in Bahrain. rolleyes.gif

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After a certain someone expressed such eager anticipation over the mix of drivers and teams for 2010 it seems as if the pressure of reporting from Bahrain is taking effect. wink.gif

While pre-season testing is, as we know, hardly the definitive word of where everyone stands, until races become "processional" I for one still feel an exceptional year in Formula 1 is about to start. And I'm certain the wit and wisdom of your words will carry the day in Bahrain. rolleyes.gif

:lol: That's too much pressure for me!

Anyways, I guess I am preparing myself for the usual disappointment when the season starts. In any case, I know that no matter who wins or how, we will all fall back into our own rationalization processes and somehow content ourselves with that. I.e: if Kubica becomes a WDC just because his dog of a car is quick enough on Q3 to barely edge out the other cars and then he will drive at about 40mph during the whole race and still win; I will just say "well, it's not his fault that races were that way, and he is a deserving champion for adapting to such races". If any of the guys with a fan base does something similar (Alonso, Schumi, Lewis, Button) it will be even worse.

It won't matter whether the other "legends" perform heroically in the back, overtaking 20 cars per race or driving on two wheels under the rain. If one of the cars has the edge on qualifying ON ONE SINGLE LAP (let's say Alonso), some of us will be ecstatic and some of us will be immensely disappointed because we will feel that there was no real possibility for the others to use their skills to at least challenge that result.

Oh, I don't know! Maybe I am worrying too much for nothing, and probably my ideas are too confusing to be understood.

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Maybe I am worrying too much for nothing, and probably my ideas are too confusing to be understood.

No, you're not. It's f###ing worrying. There's a reason for the Q3 contenders to be obliged to start on their worn tyres which could hurt the best cars on one single lap so the final result can be more likely to change which I think is a bit stupid but I hope it makes winners to have a mix of good flying lap + good tyre management + good strategy.

My head spins when I think about all the possible strategies. wacko.gif

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In any case, I hope it really becomes the expected multiple horse race and not the usual "yet another pole to finish win from <insert your favorite teams>, film at 11"

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Here is my rough race simulation analysis of Schumacher, Kubica and Hamilton.

It is based on the last day of Barcelona testing.

post-1615-126754204357_thumb.png

Edited by milaszewski

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Here is my rough race simulation analysis of Schumacher, Kubica and Hamilton.

It is based on the last day of Barcelona testing.

Er beautifully graphed, but it proves what.....?

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Er beautifully graphed, but it proves what.....?

that Hamilton is faster than both Kubica and Schumacher, but Renault's race pace looks almost equal to Mercedes

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In any case, I hope it really becomes the expected multiple horse race and not the usual "yet another pole to finish win from <insert your favorite teams>, film at 11"

There are a couple of horses I don't want to watch yet another pole to finish win.

that Hamilton is faster than both Kubica and Schumacher, but Renault's race pace looks almost equal to Mercedes

Why is Hamilton the only of the three who worsen lap times from lap 43 onwards? clap3.gif

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that Hamilton is faster than both Kubica and Schumacher, but Renault's race pace looks almost equal to Mercedes

Sorry. Too many variables to draw any conclusions...

- Fuel levels

- Wing settings

- What were they testing at the time?

- Tyre wear

- Traffic

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Yeah but it's interesting! Were they on track at the same time? And do you have an equivalent from Ferrari in comparable conditions?

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I liked the idea. Can you keep track of the performances during the season as well? It is interesting because they almost comply to the stereotyped idea we have about the drivers: A smooth downslope for Schumi (a master at nursing tires/engines) and a slight upward slope in the end of Hamilton (the "hard with tires and brakes" guy). Kubica is harder to read but I am curious about what causes such a dramatic decrease in lap times in such a short number of laps.

Of course, the chart does not prove that LH sucks at nursing his tires/brakes, I am merely pointing out that the graph conforms to the stereotype (before any of you start yelling). To be meaningful, more data will be needed but the idea is interesting indeed.

Good job! :thbup:

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Yeah but it's interesting! Were they on track at the same time? And do you have an equivalent from Ferrari in comparable conditions?

I think Massa did a race sim with Hamilton, Schumacher and Kubica last Sunday I think he could find his lap times.

As Andrés said it would be very interesting to have that kind of graph for Bahrain and I would like to compare Massa-Alonso, Button-Hamilton, Rosberg-Schumacher too.

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Here's a very interesting site. I didn't realise aficonados were doing this kind of stuff. You can find more detailed race simulation comparisons for various days' testing. (Though very good idea, Milas! I had no idea this data was available.)

Hamilton got held up behind Schumacher towards the end of his run so there were several laps that were much slower than he was doing before but then once past, his times go back down to roughly where they were before. It is true that his times were a little eratic towards the end of the run, but many of them were still very fast. Hard to know exactly what was happening.

Lewis seems to have done the longest race simulation, though Schumacher's was curtailed due to red flags I think. His race simulation was really fast. A second a lap faster than Schumacher's on average, so he'd almost lap the German in a race if that's representative.

Also interesting is to look at the earlier days' results. Alonso's race simulation times were amazingly consistent. Of course that sounds like a good thing but not necessarily. Much better to get faster through your run as other people seem to. His times don't look that fast to me but then it was earlier in the week.

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Hamilton got held up behind Schumacher towards the end of his run so there were several laps that were much slower than he was doing before but then once past, his times go back down to roughly where they were before. It is true that his times were a little eratic towards the end of the run, but many of them were still very fast. Hard to know exactly what was happening.

I think Hamilton was lapping on the 23s before he got stuck behind Schumacher doing 25s. Schumacher said he hold Hamilton for a few laps to see how was overtaking like (vs. holding a car). And a roughly 2 sec a lap faster car cannot overtake a heavier and slower (fatter and older tongue.gif ) one??? I think Hamilton would have tried and done it if at all possible.

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