JHS 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 Oh well, I can't wait till Bahrain when the speculation of who's quick and who isn't stops and we see the truth for once and all. Role on qualifying! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaky2 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 Hahah, they spent 4 or 5 laps on the chase, but it was plain as day that Hamilton would pass. Of course if it hadn't been Schumi in the other car he would have passed him faster XDD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 Hahah, they spent 4 or 5 laps on the chase, but it was plain as day that Hamilton would pass. Of course if it hadn't been Schumi in the other car he would have passed him faster XDD Lewis gave him too much respect or Schumi is good at defending?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaky2 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 Lol, I saw no respect there XD But maybe he also wanted to see how the car responded to a chase (Anyway, we were sitting at the end of the straight and Hammy was breathing down Schumi's neck every time they passed, so... yeah, respect.. XD) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 Lol, I saw no respect there XD But maybe he also wanted to see how the car responded to a chase (Anyway, we were sitting at the end of the straight and Hammy was breathing down Schumi's neck every time they passed, so... yeah, respect.. XD) Cool Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 Hahah, they spent 4 or 5 laps on the chase, but it was plain as day that Hamilton would pass. Of course if it hadn't been Schumi in the other car he would have passed him faster XDD Schumi said after the tests he let him go once he realised overtaking was not possible. Next season if you get stuck behind a slower car, you will be stuck behind the slower car even if your car is lighter and 2 sec a lap quicker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaky2 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 Schumi said after the tests he let him go once he realised overtaking was not possible. Next season if you get stuck behind a slower car, you will be stuck behind the slower car even if your car is lighter and 2 sec a lap quicker. Hum, we were expecting to see a pass around the end of the straight for sure, Schumi might have let him pass, but what the hell, at least in the most obvious place there should be a way to pass... I think? We'll have to wait and see... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 that Hamilton is faster than both Kubica and Schumacher, but Renault's race pace looks almost equal to Mercedes But Michael's line is the most linear, suggesting to me that he is extracting the maximum from the car, albeit that his times aren't the quickest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted March 3, 2010 But Michael's line is the most linear, suggesting to me that he is extracting the maximum from the car, albeit that his times aren't the quickest. Apparently he was on a long-ish run too on old tyres. I guess any team would say that if they didn't want anyone to know that they may have a flaw with their car, but with this major upgrade package that is coming for Mercedes at Bahrain, I think they'll be right on the pace with the Ferraris, Red Bulls and McLarens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 You all realize that you're engaging in mental masturbation here right? There's no way in hell you can determine anything useful from pre-season testing. Even if it's a race simulation, you have no clue what aspect of a race the team is focusing on. Is the focus tyre wear or is it how fast the car can go on medium downforce settings? Is it judging if the new suspension bits are reliable enough to last a race or are they going full-on to see their times? You just don't know. Most of the best testing isn't done at actual race speeds. You want to know the best testers? They're the drivers who are able to rein-in their desire to go all-out and instead drive consistent times. Mikey does that. So does Alonso. Hamilton not so much. Why is that you might ask? I would expect Graham to know because it relates to the scientific method. In testing, parts aren't reliable; if a driver goes 10/10 in terms of speed there's a greater chance that aberrations will occur in a part you've little experience with...and at full-speed there is the chance a driver will make an error, thereby skewing the lap times and telling you nothing as a result. You need a driver who can be consistent with their lap times and able to go a steady 8/10 in terms of speed...just fast enough to provide a baseline for comparison but not so fast that you're inviting driving errors. This also explains why so many drivers who were decent in race-form have lost their edge after years of testing. Wurz, Panis and de la Rosa come to mind. A good testing driver can pull consistent lap times...but not raw balls-to-the wall speed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 Sorry. Too many variables to draw any conclusions... - Fuel levels - Wing settings - What were they testing at the time? - Tyre wear - Traffic You, sir, have your head screwed on straight when it comes to analyzing testing times. Kubica is harder to read but I am curious about what causes such a dramatic decrease in lap times in such a short number of laps. Tyre wear and a lighter car. There's a point in a car when it shifts from being too heavy to being just right. At that point, the tyres are hitting their 'sweet spot' and the car's aero is working at near 100%. The car is easier to drive and the lap times increase greatly as a result. Because you can't set your ballast and aero for both heavy and light conditions, it's my guess that most teams will set their aero to really come into it's own at around 75% of the race distance. Before that point the car will be more difficult to drive and after that point the car suddenly becomes easier to push. It's also possible that Robert's car isn't balanced right. EDIT: From that graph, if this were a race, I would judge that Hamilton is in the fastest car and is the best at handling the changing weight/mass of the car with Schumacher second. How much of that is the car or the driver? I have no clue at the moment, but I would guess that my order is still correct. What we learn from Robert's chart is that either his car isn't balanced right for heavy fuel or that he can't drive the car while heavy. Considering Kubica has a similar style to Alonso and somewhat closer to Hamiltons (and we know Hammy can drive a heavy car) I would guess that Kubica's bad showing whilst heavy is more the car's fault than the driver's. Also, if this were a race, we can see Hamilton's weakness on the first few laps (I say Hamilton's not McLaren's because the car would not change handling qualities that soon after the start...the chart shows Hammy needing a few laps to get into the swing of a heavy car). I would predict from the graph that Michael and Robert would have an early opportunity to get ahead of the McLaren. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 Robert's pace dropped off because he's driving something called a Lada Renault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 Robert's pace dropped off because he's driving something called a Lada Renault. It wasn't his pace which dropped off but his lap times. Quite the contrary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 It wasn't his pace which dropped off but his lap times. Quite the contrary. Actually, as it is a Lada, it was probably one of the mirrors which dropped off which lowered air resistance and improved his laptimes lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 Actually, as it is a Lada, it was probably one of the mirrors which dropped off which lowered air resistance and improved his laptimes lol Doubtful. Only the Lada's 2014 Concept Luxury Car, as shown at the XVIII People's Tapestry and Farming Tools Show has rearview mirrors so far. On the plus side, the Lada K-17 a.k.a. "Menshikov's Palace on Wheels" launched earlier this year includes TWO (!) windshield wipers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kopite Girl 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 You all realize that you're engaging in mental masturbation here right? There's no way in hell you can determine anything useful from pre-season testing. Even if it's a race simulation, you have no clue what aspect of a race the team is focusing on. Is the focus tyre wear or is it how fast the car can go on medium downforce settings? Is it judging if the new suspension bits are reliable enough to last a race or are they going full-on to see their times? You just don't know. Most of the best testing isn't done at actual race speeds. You want to know the best testers? They're the drivers who are able to rein-in their desire to go all-out and instead drive consistent times. Mikey does that. So does Alonso. Hamilton not so much. Why is that you might ask? I would expect Graham to know because it relates to the scientific method. In testing, parts aren't reliable; if a driver goes 10/10 in terms of speed there's a greater chance that aberrations will occur in a part you've little experience with...and at full-speed there is the chance a driver will make an error, thereby skewing the lap times and telling you nothing as a result. You need a driver who can be consistent with their lap times and able to go a steady 8/10 in terms of speed...just fast enough to provide a baseline for comparison but not so fast that you're inviting driving errors. This also explains why so many drivers who were decent in race-form have lost their edge after years of testing. Wurz, Panis and de la Rosa come to mind. A good testing driver can pull consistent lap times...but not raw balls-to-the wall speed. This is exactly what I have been trying to say. Mike. You deserve something for that. Awesomely said and no joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 This is exactly what I have been trying to say. Mike. You deserve something for that. Awesomely said and no joke. Well, if you agree with me then I know I'm on the right track. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 Doubtful. Only the Lada's 2014 Concept Luxury Car, as shown at the XVIII People's Tapestry and Farming Tools Show has rearview mirrors so far. On the plus side, the Lada K-17 a.k.a. "Menshikov's Palace on Wheels" launched earlier this year includes TWO (!) windshield wipers. It has a windshield Luxury! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHS 1 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 Cars today-beggars' belief! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 It has a windshield Luxury! No. Just the wipers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 No. Just the wipers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2010 No. Just the wipers. What kind of chicken crap outfit is that? At least spring for the wipers mounted on his helmet for crissake! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
