Dod Melbourne

[wapi 4]

they have started screwing ups in strategy since dominicali has taken over

Exactly!

I think SD should be fired and LdM should be cautioned. LdM's concept of making Ferrari Italian again is just wrong. Picking management based on nationality...

[AleHop 0]

they have started screwing ups in strategy since dominicali has taken over

Massa has b ecame Ferraris Lewis Hamilton (minus his talents)

I hope in 2011 ferrari go for Kubica instead of Massa

Good friends and great drivers.

Exactly!

I think SD should be fired and LdM should be cautioned. LdM's concept of making Ferrari Italian again is just wrong. Picking management based on nationality...

I suppose all the teams work to maximize output, or at least they believe they do. We, as fans, can judge by how we see things are done. The insiders, no matter what happens, always say they work towards the best outcome for the team.

As I see it, in Australia Ferrari's strategy was the worst of the 4 big teams until Red Bull, McLaren and Mercedes beat them in the nonsense when they called to bring their cars in while they were already ahead of the 2 Ferrari. As things went Massa and Alonso = Ferrari were aiming for 7th and 8th but Vettel's failure and massive stupidity from others allowed them to grab a 3rd and 4th.

It is assumed that Ferrari is a winning team but judging from the show in Australia makes me doubt about Domenicali's competence. If Ferrari are to appear worshiping equality, ala McLaren 2007, they are shooting their own feet because the other 3 teams that will battle for the WDC have, on paper, a clearer leader in the team.

I do not think we will see Rosberg, Button or Webber holding a much quicker Schumacher, Hamilton or Vettel respectively over 30 laps. So I do not know whether Ferrari will win the constructors' title but the drivers' will be in serious risk even when they seem to be able to win both. And that's unfortunate, as it would be if Massa were much quicker than Alonso and he had been overtaken by any car but his.

If Alonso had past Massa the chances of a Ferari win would have been real. Domenicali was satisfied with whatever the sky could provide and things went right this time. Is Ferrari a winning team? Yes, I suppose.

It's understandable that Alonso is happy after all. His bad start and the touch with Button could have been much worse for him but the final result was just a miracle or a mirage. The right decision was either to let him past Massa or to bring him in for new tyres between lap 20+ to lap 30+. Domenicali decided to keep him on a worn out set of tyres for no reason. Even that, I don't blame Domenicali as it was Alonso who screwed his own race up and no other.

[maure 1]

Stefano-fcking-Domenicali or Luca-fcking-Cordero-di-fcking-Montezemolo I would say.

You are both a poet and correct.

I hope in 2011 ferrari go for Kubica instead of Massa

Bar the fact that Kimi should still be in Ferrari and that the fact that he isn't is loony-bin material, both Alonso and Kubica should have been in Ferrari years back.

I suppose all the teams work to maximize output, or at least they believe they do. We, as fans, can judge by how we see things are done. The insiders, no matter what happens, always say they work towards the best outcome for the team.

As I see it, in Australia Ferrari's strategy was the worst of the 4 big teams until Red Bull, McLaren and Mercedes beat them in the nonsense when they called to bring their cars in while they were already ahead of the 2 Ferrari. As things went Massa and Alonso = Ferrari were aiming for 7th and 8th but Vettel's failure and massive stupidity from others allowed them to grab a 3rd and 4th.

It is assumed that Ferrari is a winning team but judging from the show in Australia makes me doubt about Domenicali's competence. If Ferrari are to appear worshiping equality, ala McLaren 2007, they are shooting their own feet because the other 3 teams that will battle for the WDC have, on paper, a clearer leader in the team.

I do not think we will see Rosberg, Button or Webber holding a much quicker Schumacher, Hamilton or Vettel respectively over 30 laps. So I do not know whether Ferrari will win the constructors' title but the drivers' will be in serious risk even when they seem to be able to win both. And that's unfortunate, as it would be if Massa were much quicker than Alonso and he had been overtaken by any car but his.

If Alonso had past Massa the chances of a Ferari win would have been real. Domenicali was satisfied with whatever the sky could provide and things went right this time. Is Ferrari a winning team? Yes, I suppose.

It's understandable that Alonso is happy after all. His bad start and the touch with Button could have been much worse for him but the final result was just a miracle or a mirage. The right decision was either to let him past Massa or to bring him in for new tyres between lap 20+ to lap 30+. Domenicali decided to keep him on a worn out set of tyres for no reason. Even that, I don't blame Domenicali as it was Alonso who screwed his own race up and no other.

All good points.

I would say that Alonso is not that happy (would be stupid, really) but says so because he hugs first and gives the team the benefit of the doubt. The best example is 2007. Alonso said nothing when Hamilton publicly accused McLaren of fixing the Monaco GP and still remained silent when, at the US GP, the pitwall told him to let Hamilton win. Of course, things got too crazy for anyone to bear and eventually (in the last race, btw), Alonso implied his unhappiness at the situation.

Perhaps Alonso has learned to do better. Perhaps he is simply the same guy, that is, a good guy that goes along... and sometimes gets taken advantage of.

[Quiet One 15]

Quite the contrary. It matters birdsht that Massa was pleased, he wears tattered skivvies for fck sake. Besides which, no matter what the "settlement" was, it was not in favor of Ferrari. Massa couldn't get more but Alonso could've... if his slower teammate had gotten out of the way.

And therein, my friend, lies the rub. It was a Mexican standoff for all participants. Ferrari could not ask any of the drivers to back up, as that would have meant team orders and, let's be frank, if I were a Ferrari boss I wouldn't trust any of those drivers to keep such orders in secret. Massa could not give up, even if knowing he was he was giving the team a signal that he is not the team player he vanaglories himself of being, for fear of giving yet another signal of weakness compared to Alonso. And, finally, Alonso could not risk an overtaking move on Massa because: 1) his tires were already in tatters by then and overtaking wasn't easy, 2) if he tried really hard and Massa didn't give up, he risked taking both cars out of the race a la Vettel/Kubica last year, that would have meant losing a lot more for him, for Massa (not that Nando would have cared much about it) and losing lots of credit in the eyes of the Ferrari management.

Each one of them had just one wise choice at that moment, except for Massa who was pretty much screwed by then. In the end, Ferrari did the right thing letting the two drivers alone instead of risking another Austria 2002. Alonso did the right thing taking as many points as he could, bearing in mind that he was poised for a horrible weekend by the end of turn one, and also got a few more ranks in his race against Massa to become the official LdM's #1 a##-licker. He shown that he is a better team player than Massa by accepting 4th place, and showed at the same time that he was clearly superior than a Felipinho whose driving was less than elegant.

Massa...well, at least he got a podium and some valuable points. If things keep going like this for him, he better makes sure he gets as much as he can, while he can, before being turned into Alonso's Rubinho either by his own deeds, or by Ferrari's decision. It is a matterof how much faith he had in his future. If he had plenty, he should have moved aside, confident on having another chance in the future to beat Nando and meanwhile looking good in the eyes of LdM. If his confidence wasn't as great, then the right choice was that that he made: get as much as possible, while he still can. The answer? On the track itself.

[AleHop 0]

I would say that Alonso is not that happy (would be stupid, really) but says so because he hugs first and gives the team the benefit of the doubt.

I meant he was happy with the result because he finished ahead of the most important title contenders and Vettel got no points. He could have lost the lead in the World Championship against an embarrasing Massa, it was scaring.

The best example is 2007. Alonso said nothing when Hamilton publicly accused McLaren of fixing the Monaco GP and still remained silent when, at the US GP, the pitwall told him to let Hamilton win. Of course, things got too crazy for anyone to bear and eventually (in the last race, btw), Alonso implied his unhappiness at the situation.

And who is publicly blaming McLaren again in 2010 after the second race?

Perhaps Alonso has learned to do better. Perhaps he is simply the same guy, that is, a good guy that goes along... and sometimes gets taken advantage of.

I think he's learned a lot, for good or bad, but he's simply the same guy that didn't let a bunch of pirates took advantage of in 2007. He's probably very unhappy with the strategy displayed in Australia by his team.

And therein, my friend, lies the rub. It was a Mexican standoff for all participants. Ferrari could not ask any of the drivers to back up, as that would have meant team orders and, let's be frank, if I were a Ferrari boss I wouldn't trust any of those drivers to keep such orders in secret. Massa could not give up, even if knowing he was he was giving the team a signal that he is not the team player he vanaglories himself of being, for fear of giving yet another signal of weakness compared to Alonso. And, finally, Alonso could not risk an overtaking move on Massa because: 1) his tires were already in tatters by then and overtaking wasn't easy, 2) if he tried really hard and Massa didn't give up, he risked taking both cars out of the race a la Vettel/Kubica last year, that would have meant losing a lot more for him, for Massa (not that Nando would have cared much about it) and losing lots of credit in the eyes of the Ferrari management.

Ok, but Domenically could have brought him in for a new set of tyres around lap 25-30. On lap 16 Alonso was 8th just behind Massa and Ferrari seemed to be happy with a quite poor result (7th and 8th was terrible for the standings before Vettel's DNF). Alonso might have just lost 1 position against Barrichello and he would have overtaken him again easily.

Each one of them had just one wise choice at that moment, except for Massa who was pretty much screwed by then. In the end, Ferrari did the right thing letting the two drivers alone instead of risking another Austria 2002. Alonso did the right thing taking as many points as he could, bearing in mind that he was poised for a horrible weekend by the end of turn one, and also got a few more ranks in his race against Massa to become the official LdM's #1 a##-licker. He shown that he is a better team player than Massa by accepting 4th place, and showed at the same time that he was clearly superior than a Felipinho whose driving was less than elegant.

If you account they called Alonso several times from the pit-wall to remind him to be gentle with the tyres I don't think they let the two drivers alone although maybe it was the right thing to do as the result was good eventually. Thank God.

I heard the team radio on La Sexta when Alonso surprisingly replied he didn't want to know how close Hamilton was. I don't buy the explanation I heard about him knowing Hamilton was going to catch him up anyway. No way, that was not the Alonso we know.

[Quiet One 15]

Ok, but Domenically could have brought him in for a new set of tyres around lap 25-30. On lap 16 Alonso was 8th just behind Massa and Ferrari seemed to be happy with a quite poor result (7th and 8th was terrible for the standings before Vettel's DNF). Alonso might have just lost 1 position against Barrichello and he would have overtaken him again easily.

Alonso himself has defined the whole season in one phrase so well, it is being used by everybody: Position is king. That is what Ferrari had in mind and that was Nando's conclusion from the simulator. No matter what conditions they simulated, there was no way to gain position in such situation by entering the pits. Teams knew better than us spectators. I would have called him in, too. But truth is, he would have ended up having to overtake Webber, Hamilton, Rosberg and Massa before even starting with Kubica...and that would have been an ever more daunting prospect no matter how hard he fought, how fast his car would have been on new tires or anything like that.

If you account they called Alonso several times from the pit-wall to remind him to be gentle with the tyres I don't think they let the two drivers alone although maybe it was the right thing to do as the result was good eventually. Thank God.

What should they have told him? Massa wasn't going to budge, Alonso was already struggling with his own tires and Massa was not only struggling with his tires but also being taught Driving 101 lessons from Rob Smedley. To try to overtake such a guy would have been suicidal. He was coming from 22nd, he was securing first place in the championship, doing a Webber could be interpreted as being a fighter to the end, a guy that never gives up...or a total moron. He already made the point of being a fighter. It was time not to be a moron. That is why he is top class. He is not a perfect machine. He is not a Gladiator. He is the best package out there because he can tell when to be one thing and when to be the other.

I heard the team radio on La Sexta when Alonso surprisingly replied he didn't want to know how close Hamilton was. I don't buy the explanation I heard about him knowing Hamilton was going to catch him up anyway. No way, that was not the Alonso we know.

I loved that phrase!

Here, for you, a typical Nando in Gladiator mode:

“The first laps with the intermediate tyres, if you see the times I was like two seconds quicker than anyone because I was not caring too much. I thought maybe I will crash or maybe I will recover my position – so it was maximum attack,”

[AleHop 0]

I loved that phrase!

Here, for you, a typical Nando in Gladiator mode:

I enjoy it now but...

I watched the start and nearly the whole race once I knew the outcome and what had happened there. I'm still concerned about my heart if I had watched the whole race live on TV.

[DarkLord 0]

You are both a poet and correct.

Bar the fact that Kimi should still be in Ferrari and that the fact that he isn't is loony-bin material, both Alonso and Kubica should have been in Ferrari years back.

I guess its just because of Massa's accident he is in the team. No one would like to have negative publicity....

All good points.

I would say that Alonso is not that happy (would be stupid, really) but says so because he hugs first and gives the team the benefit of the doubt. The best example is 2007. Alonso said nothing when Hamilton publicly accused McLaren of fixing the Monaco GP and still remained silent when, at the US GP, the pitwall told him to let Hamilton win. Of course, things got too crazy for anyone to bear and eventually (in the last race, btw), Alonso implied his unhappiness at the situation.

Perhaps Alonso has learned to do better. Perhaps he is simply the same guy, that is, a good guy that goes along... and sometimes gets taken advantage of.

Alonso is enjoying his stint in a competitive team after almost 2 years and he knows after his disastrous Mclaren experience how to handle crown prince of a team...(i hope so)

[JHS 1]

Kubica for me. Great drive from Casper the Friendly Ghost him.

[AleHop 0]

Kubica for me. Great drive from Casper the Friendly Ghost him.

Don't count him out for a win this season even if he's to outdrive the car.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Kubica for me. Great drive from Casper the Friendly Ghost him.

Thank you for putting this thread back on topic! It's becoming a 2007 recap!