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Shummacher Myths To Be Destroyed One By One...

483 posts in this topic

Hopefully at the end of this season, all overhype and worshippings about MS will fall, and will remain what he really is: a great driver, one of the most intelligent ones in history, but not necessarily the best in each and every aspect.

If you are a die hard an irrational fan of him, please read no further...

The myths will fall one by one: (to be updated during the season)

1- That he would wipe out competition immediately after his comeback from retirement.

I know what die hard fans will say (those who did not follow my advise). He is old but for his age he is doing more than he should... It is always like that: "he is always making miracles... It is never the car, the team or his engineers... "

Well, it is true he is old... But he decided to comeback... He would not do that if he though he could not perform close to what he was before... At least he would not "charge"30mEuros...

And Rubens, his old team mate did a much better race in Australia...

2- He was not "retired"by Kimi...

If that is so, why he came back now? He could have stayed and prove he could face a real team mate, at least once in his lifetime...

Just look at Button. A real champion who choose to face LH to prove himself... He knew he would either be killed or become a hero... That is a courageous move, knowing LH knows McLaren better.

3- That he was the best overtaker in history...

Well I always knew there were better ones even in his time in F1... But his dominant cars gave the world a misperception about his skills.

His elderly may again be used as an excused, but was his car that much worse than he couldnt even overtake Alguersuari? Or become overtaken by a Virgin?

I do concede he is old, and he might be a little below what he used to be...

But when in his whole career was he put in a condition like that: equal status with his teammate in a car that is no dominant (but among the bests)?

I predict that at the end of this season, many will be asking if he was THAT good all this time, or he simply was an intelligent guy, in the right place in the right time at the right conditions with a brilliant manager... of course with a great talent, but nothing that extraordinary, nothing above the other great racers (in capable cars, which was not the case throughout most of his career) we have this season...

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You should add to that a Alonso myths will go that way too, Massa showed him that he is not better driver as he kept him behind all the way home, he was suppose to pass Massa but he couldn't and there is more to come unless Ferrari once again do another Mclaren to keep Alonso(yesterday was just driving like Montoya)ahead, let me remind you that in the fisrt race Ferrari told Massa to slow down while Alonso had green light to push, yeah I know, I am biased against Alonso but what I said is true and as long as Massa is alowed to fight him Massa will have the upper hand at the end and I think that MS will improve his game but Alonso's will go down as he find the ugly truth that he is not better than Massa I even dare to say that this is the last week of Alonso leading the WDC.

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Hopefully at the end of this season, all overhype and worshippings about MS will fall, and will remain what he really is: a great driver, one of the most intelligent ones in history, but not necessarily the best in each and every aspect.

If you are a die hard an irrational fan of him, please read no further...

The myths will fall one by one: (to be updated during the season)

1- That he would wipe out competition immediately after his comeback from retirement.

I know what die hard fans will say (those who did not follow my advise). He is old but for his age he is doing more than he should... It is always like that: "he is always making miracles... It is never the car, the team or his engineers... "

Well, it is true he is old... But he decided to comeback... He would not do that if he though he could not perform close to what he was before... At least he would not "charge"30mEuros...

And Rubens, his old team mate did a much better race in Australia...

2- He was not "retired"by Kimi...

If that is so, why he came back now? He could have stayed and prove he could face a real team mate, at least once in his lifetime...

Just look at Button. A real champion who choose to face LH to prove himself... He knew he would either be killed or become a hero... That is a courageous move, knowing LH knows McLaren better.

3- That he was the best overtaker in history...

Well I always knew there were better ones even in his time in F1... But his dominant cars gave the world a misperception about his skills.

His elderly may again be used as an excused, but was his car that much worse than he couldnt even overtake Alguersuari? Or become overtaken by a Virgin?

I do concede he is old, and he might be a little below what he used to be...

But when in his whole career was he put in a condition like that: equal status with his teammate in a car that is no dominant (but among the bests)?

I predict that at the end of this season, many will be asking if he was THAT good all this time, or he simply was an intelligent guy, in the right place in the right time at the right conditions with a brilliant manager... of course with a great talent, but nothing that extraordinary, nothing above the other great racers (in capable cars, which was not the case throughout most of his career) we have this season...

Now answering to you post by numbers

1) I never heard of that, everybody was saying that he would have a hard time to adapt to the new rules/cars and as this is a new topic it can not be consider a myth so you should modify that one.

I think that he is doing a very decent job so far and he will be faster than what he is now, that doesn't mean that he is going to wipe out the competition or even defeat Rosberg but he will improve for sure.

2)I don't think he was retire by Kimi I have been saying this ever since he started to talk about retirement, IMO the most influencial force behind his retirement was his wife, MSC had everything under control at Ferrari and Kimi would have found himself in the need to adapt to that situation, MSC created the new Ferrari and the team was floating around him so there is nothing about this that is going to be destroyed tis season.

3)Schumy was a good overtaker but I can't say that he was the best overtaker not to mention that I never heard of this before, Schumy strengh was in making strategies work actually I would say that he learned at Ferrari to be a very pasive driver, I even got mad at him by his lack of agressiveness on track and his passing on the pits mentality.

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You should add to that a Alonso myths will go that way too, Massa showed him that he is not better driver as he kept him behind all the way home, he was suppose to pass Massa but he couldn't and there is more to come unless Ferrari once again do another Mclaren to keep Alonso(yesterday was just driving like Montoya)ahead, let me remind you that in the fisrt race Ferrari told Massa to slow down while Alonso had green light to push, yeah I know, I am biased against Alonso but what I said is true and as long as Massa is alowed to fight him Massa will have the upper hand at the end and I think that MS will improve his game but Alonso's will go down as he find the ugly truth that he is not better than Massa I even dare to say that this is the last week of Alonso leading the WDC.

I think we need a thread for each driver to destroy all their myths, another big one for destroying all the Formula One Myths and another tiny one to destroy all the Freakazoid myths. wink.gif

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I think we need a thread for each driver to destroy all their myths, another big one for destroying all the Formula One Myths and another tiny one to destroy all the Freakazoid myths. wink.gif

As far I as I know I have only two.

1) Kimi is the best. :D

2) Alonso is not the best. :P

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Whatever happens, idiots like you will come out with all your ridiculous notions reinforced. If he beats Rosberg, it's because of team orders as some were already insinuating before the start of the year. If he doesn't it proves that he can only win with team orders. You'll twist anything to support your twisted views. The truth is, he drove long enough before his retirement for any serious critic to form an opinion of him as a driver. You're stupid if you need an year of him driving at 41 to figure how good he is or isn't.

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With reference to the OP, I believe Schumi's hitting his stride. The gap in qualifying times was less than an ant's pube. Even more, he outdid Rosie in the practice session. One race ago, all stats were in Rosie's favour. I'm pretty certain had it not been for the opening lap incident, Schu would have finished ahead of Rosie.

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Further, on the ESPN live commentary (or perhaps another site, forgot the name), the reason Schu struggled to overtake was that his tyres weren't getting warmed up.

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A good effort, Mr.Shields, and I think I know what were you aiming at. Regretfully, it is hard to accomplish that kind of things not because of the drivers, but because of our own perceptions. I am an old Schumi hater, but lately I have found it hard to rekindle the hatred I always held for h im. Perhaps because his comeback brings back memories of happier days at Renault...anyways, while reading your comments it was obvious that your bias (which you might deny or not, but they are there) would make people focus more on your criticisms on Schumi than the actual achievements you recognize in him.

I was thinking the other day about starting a thread were every fan of a certain driver would explain how do they see him and why. A sort of profile of each driver made by their fans, with the intent of transmitting something of the good things. It would be hard to pull through as the temptation of making chants of devotion instead of profiles would be great, and trolls would complicate things. Is hard to see the driver beyond the bias. Pitty.

As for Schumi, my view on his still remains more optimistic than yours, but I am also stranegly disappointed at the same time that he didn't work the magic I supposed (feared) he might pull.

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Jay! Welcome back. :D I'd like to say I missed you but... I just did.

You said what I was thinking too. In Bahrain Schumacher was decent enough during the race but a bit off Rosberg's one lap pace, whereas qualifying looked a lot closer and the race hard to judge in Australia. Interestingly in Bahrain Jacques Villeneuve thought Michael had done a good job after taking time off and that it would take some time to get back up to speed.

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I'd like to add a few more...

4 - That he uses the hidden electronic control box (artfully disguised as a chin) to magnetically alter the courses of other cars.

Now - you might say, 'He's just not used it yet.' but come on people. wake up! what better oportunity to utilise the 'chinosar' than in Australia when he was only in 10th place.

I know some morons claim that the polarity reversal as a result of being in the southern hemisphere conflicts with the thought vibrations emitted by this device - but seriously - you don't think Ross Brawn would have engineered a solution yet?

5 - This one's an oldy but hey - it still hasn't been disproved until (I think) now...

Some people have always claimed that Schumi has no style. Well - did you not see his elk-skin moccasin and hockey shin-pad combo when he jumped on his plane back to Europe this week. Christ almighty - the guy is a fashion genius. No arguments here, so don't even try.

6 - Lastly - Myth 6 - that Schumacher was born to a koala and a rattlesnake and was raised in the arctic by a pack of wild tuna.

Okay - so I still haven't seen any convincing proof either way on this one. Perhaps we'll find out for sure this season, or perhaps we'll just never know.

Edited by adamstrags

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Whatever happens, idiots like you will come out with all your ridiculous notions reinforced. If he beats Rosberg, it's because of team orders as some were already insinuating before the start of the year. If he doesn't it proves that he can only win with team orders. You'll twist anything to support your twisted views. The truth is, he drove long enough before his retirement for any serious critic to form an opinion of him as a driver. You're stupid if you need an year of him driving at 41 to figure how good he is or isn't.

I agree with your POV here, if someone need to see how good he is o was just need to take a look at his record.

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With reference to the OP, I believe Schumi's hitting his stride. The gap in qualifying times was less than an ant's pube. Even more, he outdid Rosie in the practice session. One race ago, all stats were in Rosie's favour. I'm pretty certain had it not been for the opening lap incident, Schu would have finished ahead of Rosie.

I beleive that too.

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Jay! Welcome back. biggrin.gif I'd like to say I missed you but... I just did.

You said what I was thinking too. In Bahrain Schumacher was decent enough during the race but a bit off Rosberg's one lap pace, whereas qualifying looked a lot closer and the race hard to judge in Australia. Interestingly in Bahrain Jacques Villeneuve thought Michael had done a good job after taking time off and that it would take some time to get back up to speed.

Oh Graham, you missed me? I'm really touched down there. Do come on msn, I've got a few puns for you. I've also badly missed you, my sole audience for my lame jokes.

And, nice to know that you are still pro-Schumi. You aren't that bad after all.

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7 - That the Dopfelhiemerwaxworkenmusee have secretly switched Schumi's real neck for a wax one, thus allowing him to melt slightly and seal the c#ckpit during hot races - leading to an aero advantage.

I have a feeling that we'll get definative proof for this if his pace remains significantly slower at colder races - Aus was certainly cooler than usual, and he couldn't get passed Algimynameistoolongboy. Hmmmm. My gut feeling is that his 'myth' might just have some truth to it.

8 - Myth 7 is that he has a younger brother called Ralph.

Obviously utter nonsense. How would his parents have supported two children on the dilithium crystal diet that the young Schumi required while in training as a youngster.

9 - What? You think the dilithium crystal story is another myth?

Explain to me where all the uranium 472 in the Bavarian foothills went to circa 1835 then! Conveniently EXACTLY 134 years before Schumi was born. Coincidence? I don't think so.

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A good effort, Mr.Shields, and I think I know what were you aiming at. Regretfully, it is hard to accomplish that kind of things not because of the drivers, but because of our own perceptions. I am an old Schumi hater, but lately I have found it hard to rekindle the hatred I always held for h im. Perhaps because his comeback brings back memories of happier days at Renault...anyways, while reading your comments it was obvious that your bias (which you might deny or not, but they are there) would make people focus more on your criticisms on Schumi than the actual achievements you recognize in him.

I was thinking the other day about starting a thread were every fan of a certain driver would explain how do they see him and why. A sort of profile of each driver made by their fans, with the intent of transmitting something of the good things. It would be hard to pull through as the temptation of making chants of devotion instead of profiles would be great, and trolls would complicate things. Is hard to see the driver beyond the bias. Pitty.

As for Schumi, my view on his still remains more optimistic than yours, but I am also stranegly disappointed at the same time that he didn't work the magic I supposed (feared) he might pull.

Maybe your hatred is less because he is not winning?? :lol:

I think you should start those threads, would be an interesting exercise I think, especially after some of the comments that have been made about the Oz gp. Maybe you should expand it and invite people to say why they hate a driver too :whistling:

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OK, I'll try to be rational here.

This is quite possibly the worst Anti-Schumacher thread I have ever read in my 5 years of posting here. But we are all entitled to our opinions, so here is mine:-

Myths have never existed about this man. He smashed record after record. I don't think you could call him a mythical character. A legend, yes. Whatever you say, deny the fact that it is HIM who holds 7 titles, HIM who has smashed records and HIM who has written himself into F1 history books forever.

To point something out to you, to say something like "If you are a die hard Schumacher fan, do not read below..." is like waving a red flag at a bull. It will cause repercussions....

Not that I don't respect what you have to say, I just don't agree.

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It's not an Anti Schumacher thread, although it might seem like such (sorry, Shields, but your choice for a thread title was rather poor)

As far as I can read, the guy is not saying that Schumi's rate is a 0 over 10 or an F for all you with non-standard scoring systems :P

He is just saying that he isn't an 11/10 (or an A++++) and more like a 9.50/10. Which is completely rational, whether you agree or not. That is what I meant when talking about our bias. Us Alonso fans know that Nando is not an 11/10 either, I would rate him a 9/10. But one thing is reading my own comments on how good he is and something different is reading somebody else saying "he is not a ten!" and making it sound (in my own biased ears) as if the critic was spitting the words and meaning that Alonso is a total failiure, thus starting an ever growing spiral of "he is the best" against "he is the worst" when both the critic and the fan know the truth lies somewhere in between.

Oh, I don't know...some things are fascinating to think about, but really boring and confuse when I try to write about them.

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Whatever happens, idiots like you will come out with all your ridiculous notions reinforced. If he beats Rosberg, it's because of team orders as some were already insinuating before the start of the year. If he doesn't it proves that he can only win with team orders. You'll twist anything to support your twisted views. The truth is, he drove long enough before his retirement for any serious critic to form an opinion of him as a driver. You're stupid if you need an year of him driving at 41 to figure how good he is or isn't.

Sorry, but the guy is right. I have been saying for 6 month (and been crucified for it) that MS was far from greatest - just a great car, great team, and team orders. And the only team orders that I am aware of were in support of MS. He is (and was) a very, very good driver. God he was NOT.

Now, let's talk the demi-god Hamilton myth......

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Overtaking summary - 2. Australian Grand Prix

Laps 2-4 - Safety Car

Lap 5 - 24 Glock passed 20 Chandhok for 16th

8 Alonso passed 20 Chandhok for 17th

8 Alonso passed 24 Glock for 16th

3 Schumacher passed 25 di Grassi for 19th

3 Schumacher passed 20 Chandhok for 18th

3 Schumacher passed 24 Glock for 17th

24 Glock passed 3 Schumacher for 17th

Lap 6 - 6 Webber passed 7 Massa for 2nd

2 Hamilton passed 1 Button for 6th

8 Alonso passed 19 Kovalainen for 13th

3 Schumacher passed 24 Glock for 15th

Lap 7 - 9 Barrichello passed 14 Sutil for 7th

12 Petrov passed 14 Sutil for 8th

3 Schumacher passed 19 Kovalainen for 14th

Lap 9 - 1 Button passed 11 Kubica for 4th

Lap 11 - 2 Hamilton passed 9 Barrichello for 7th

Lap 13 - 8 Alonso passed 22 de la Rosa for 9th

Lap 14 - 8 Alonso passed 9 Barrichello for 8th

Lap 16 - 6 Webber passed 7 Massa for 5th

2 Hamilton passed 7 Massa for 6th

Lap 20 - 25 di Grassi passed 20 Chandhok for 16th

Lap 21 - 15 Liuzzi passed 22 de la Rosa for 10th

Lap 22 - 2 Hamilton passed 7 Massa for 5th

6 Webber passed 8 Alonso for 7th

Lap 23 - 3 Schumacher passed 17 Alguersuari for 12th

Lap 26 - 2 Hamilton passed 4 Rosberg for 3rd

Lap 28 - 6 Webber passed 7 Massa for 5th

Lap 34 - 6 Webber passed 4 Rosberg for 6th

Lap 51 - 9 Barrichello passed 22 de la Rosa for 9th

Lap 53 - 3 Schumacher passed 17 Alguersuari for 11th

Lap 57 - 3 Schumacher passed 22 de la Rosa for 10th

17 Alguersuari passed 22 de la Rosa for 11th

Total overtakes: 32

Drivers: most overtaking moves: Michael Schumacher (8), Fernando Alonso (5), Lewis Hamilton (5), Mark Webber (5)

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Quiet One,

Congrats, you can read and could exactly get my point...

The fact there is a myth falling does not mean the guy is not great.

Other guy said:

Sorry, but the guy is right. I have been saying for 6 month (and been crucified for it) that MS was far from greatest - just a great car, great team, and team orders. And the only team orders that I am aware of were in support of MS. He is (and was) a very, very good driver. God he was NOT.

Now, let's talk the demi-god Hamilton myth......

I would not say he is JUST great car great team and team orders, although he had all this. And when he did not have the best car, his only competitor was a second driver (DH)...

My point is that the special circunstances around him created an exagerated hype that was sold by the media to spectators that are always avid to (seeking) watch something extraordinary...

I prefer reality, unlike many fans...

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My point is that the special circunstances around him created an exagerated hype that was sold by the media to spectators that are always avid to (seeking) watch something extraordinary...

Like it happened with so many F1 drivers in the past.

I prefer reality, unlike many fans...

Average human beings cannot live without their myths.

Are you not finding yours?

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Like it happened with so many F1 drivers in the past.

Exactly!

Average human beings cannot live without their myths.

And that is well explored by the media, who wants to sell spectacular news...

Average human beings cannot live without their myths.

Really? So I have to find out from which planet I am from... :)

Are you not finding yours?

I dont need it... Well, I used to need it when I was a child, which makes me think I am (or at least was) human (?)

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Hopefully at the end of this season, all overhype and worshippings about MS will fall, and will remain what he really is: a great driver, one of the most intelligent ones in history, but not necessarily the best in each and every aspect.

If you are a die hard an irrational fan of him, please read no further...

The myths will fall one by one: (to be updated during the season)

1- That he would wipe out competition immediately after his comeback from retirement.

I know what die hard fans will say (those who did not follow my advise). He is old but for his age he is doing more than he should... It is always like that: "he is always making miracles... It is never the car, the team or his engineers... "

Well, it is true he is old... But he decided to comeback... He would not do that if he though he could not perform close to what he was before... At least he would not "charge"30mEuros...

And Rubens, his old team mate did a much better race in Australia...

2- He was not "retired"by Kimi...

If that is so, why he came back now? He could have stayed and prove he could face a real team mate, at least once in his lifetime...

Just look at Button. A real champion who choose to face LH to prove himself... He knew he would either be killed or become a hero... That is a courageous move, knowing LH knows McLaren better.

3- That he was the best overtaker in history...

Well I always knew there were better ones even in his time in F1... But his dominant cars gave the world a misperception about his skills.

His elderly may again be used as an excused, but was his car that much worse than he couldnt even overtake Alguersuari? Or become overtaken by a Virgin?

I do concede he is old, and he might be a little below what he used to be...

But when in his whole career was he put in a condition like that: equal status with his teammate in a car that is no dominant (but among the bests)?

I predict that at the end of this season, many will be asking if he was THAT good all this time, or he simply was an intelligent guy, in the right place in the right time at the right conditions with a brilliant manager... of course with a great talent, but nothing that extraordinary, nothing above the other great racers (in capable cars, which was not the case throughout most of his career) we have this season...

Easy, easy.

Schumacher is making a fool of himself and of his diehards, sure. But there is plenty to come. No reason to eager up too many conclusions... just yet.

So, I'll applaud your comment on account of being your 29th and because you've got a couple of resident morons pssed off.

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