Shummacher Myths To Be Destroyed One By One...

[pabloh20 1]

For me, Schumi made his reputation (as one of the greatest F1 drivers ever) during his years at Ferrari and there will never be any damage done to that. His reputation is not under threat as far as I can see.

Can Stirling Moss now drive a car as well as he could when he was in the thick of it? Of course he can't. Does that detract from his reputation. No.

It is just a matter of accepting that Schumi can no longer do what he did, not that he never could.I understand that this comes down to how one defines 'reputation', but I tend to judge kindly and assess people by their high water mark rather than their lowest ebb. At his height Mikey was one of the greats, he will remain one of the greats no matter how much of a flop his time at Merc turns out to be.

Perhaps I should add that his 'current form' is no great shakes, but that 'current form' has no bearing on his 'reputation' for me.

The bit in bold seems to be the issue, though.

Some people are using his current form as confirmation to what 'they have known all along', namely that he just wasn't as good as he was made out to be at his peak.

[dribbler 6]

The bit in bold seems to be the issue, though.

Some people are using his current form as confirmation to what 'they have known all along', namely that he just wasn't as good as he was made out to be at his peak.

Wouldn't it be fun if he could pound around Fiorano in say a 2004 Ferrari and look at his current lap times. Okay, so it would take time to get used to it again and the correct grade of Bridgestone is surely long gone, but it would be a fascinating exercise (for me, anyway).

[pabloh20 1]

Wouldn't it be fun if he could pound around Fiorano in say a 2004 Ferrari and look at his current lap times. Okay, so it would take time to get used to it again and the correct grade of Bridgestone is surely long gone, but it would be a fascinating exercise (for me, anyway).

Yep, it would be interesting to see, for sure.

It would also be interesting to see how he would fair if testing was allowed or if he didn't get sick in the simulator.

[Quiet One 15]

I would also like to watch him jumping through a ring of flames.

Or doing some Bavarian dance with Norbert Haug in full Tirolese Bavarian outfits.

[pabloh20 1]

I would also like to watch him jumping through a ring of flames.

Or doing some Bavarian dance with Norbert Haug in full Tirolese Bavarian outfits.

Whatever turns you on

[Herman 0]

He's always been over rated. Flattered by a superior car and FIA help. Now he doesn't have those advantages he's showing how good he really is.

Half a second slower than a guy who's never won a race.

[Delta 0]

Michael was by no means overrated (and this is coming from someone who isn't even close to being his biggest fan). You don't win 7 world driver's championships just with luck, you have to have ability. As Dribbler said, we may not as fans understand why, but the fact that Michael has struggled since he has came back in no way diminishes the achievements made during his career. Michael's one of the all time greats, make no mistake.

[dribbler 6]

He's always been over rated. Flattered by a superior car and FIA help. Now he doesn't have those advantages he's showing how good he really is.

Half a second slower than a guy who's never won a race.

This is what mind poo looks like.

[dribbler 6]

Too early to say that Michael has rediscovered his mojo. Invariably, there was always going to be a drive like Spa that would help us to believe this is true. I don't actually think this was as good a drive as Canada; he was aided by Hamilton's and Massa's complications. But I was encouraged, nonetheless.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Too early to say that Michael has rediscovered his mojo. Invariably, there was always going to be a drive like Spa that would help us to believe this is true. I don't actually think this was as good a drive as Canada; he was aided by Hamilton's and Massa's complications. But I was encouraged, nonetheless.

These performances has affirm one thing to me. Despite him having to find his feet again, give him a good car next year and he will still mix it up front with the best. No doubt!

[HandyNZL 1]

These performances has affirm one thing to me. Despite him having to find his feet again, give him a good car next year and he will still mix it up front with the best. No doubt!

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[dribbler 6]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Ouch.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Spa pre-race (BBC coverage) did a brief retrospective of Mikey that answers quite a bit of this. Teammates all through his career have remarked how fast he was. They have told tales bordering on awe of his remarkable telemetry (brake, throttle position in turns, turn in, etc). F1 racing even published his telemetry against Rubens' some years back and you can see how incredible it was. Opponents who have followed him and raced against him have had similar remarks. The man could hustle a car 'round a track.

They also spoke of his fitness. Mikey entered F1 after Senna, so it's interesting that Brundle, who knew Senna, credited Mikey with having a level of fitness that went beyond anything anyone had ever seen before in F1. Beyond Senna. That's amazing and it's the most important part of Mikey's 'magic'. Driving and F1 car takes an incredible amount of physical strength and endurance. According to that BBC retrospective, Mikey's fitness level enabled him to drive a car and focus completely on the car. So fit was he that the effort of driving an F1 car at speed was nothing to him. While other drivers fought with g-forces and exhaustion, Mikey (and Senna for that matter) could focus on placing the car right where he wanted it. Taking that apex exactly how he wanted to. Smashing into Villeneuve exactly how he had planned to....er.....I digress...

Fitness levels, I believe, put Mikey above the rest. Certainly he was a gifted driver, but so were they all (ok, maybe not Deletraz). It's no surprise that F1 is a young man's sport. Youth gives the best fitness levels and someone Mikey's age just cannot compete. As we age, muscles break down and so too has that magical 'edge' that Mikey of Old had.

BUT....

Consider that he is, on the average, lapping only tenths behind his teammate who is almost 20 years his junior. Amazing.

The only Schumacher 'myth' to be destroyed, as I see it, is the one Senna started...that Mikey was only good because he was in an illegal car. But it's in the nature of people to knock down something wonderous, so this thread is no surprise to me.

(I would ask everyone to separate Mikey's dubious sportsman attitude from his talent. One is deplorable and the other is...astounding)

[yurp 0]

(I would ask everyone to separate Mikey's dubious sportsman attitude from his talent. One is deplorable and the other is...astounding)

Well I certainly am astounded by his dubious sporting attitude, but I'm not sure I agree about his talent being deplorable.

Huh?

Oh

[Quiet One 15]

Spa pre-race (BBC coverage) did a brief retrospective of Mikey that answers quite a bit of this. Teammates all through his career have remarked how fast he was. They have told tales bordering on awe of his remarkable telemetry (brake, throttle position in turns, turn in, etc). F1 racing even published his telemetry against Rubens' some years back and you can see how incredible it was. Opponents who have followed him and raced against him have had similar remarks. The man could hustle a car 'round a track.

They also spoke of his fitness. Mikey entered F1 after Senna, so it's interesting that Brundle, who knew Senna, credited Mikey with having a level of fitness that went beyond anything anyone had ever seen before in F1. Beyond Senna. That's amazing and it's the most important part of Mikey's 'magic'. Driving and F1 car takes an incredible amount of physical strength and endurance. According to that BBC retrospective, Mikey's fitness level enabled him to drive a car and focus completely on the car. So fit was he that the effort of driving an F1 car at speed was nothing to him. While other drivers fought with g-forces and exhaustion, Mikey (and Senna for that matter) could focus on placing the car right where he wanted it. Taking that apex exactly how he wanted to. Smashing into Villeneuve exactly how he had planned to....er.....I digress...

Fitness levels, I believe, put Mikey above the rest. Certainly he was a gifted driver, but so were they all (ok, maybe not Deletraz). It's no surprise that F1 is a young man's sport. Youth gives the best fitness levels and someone Mikey's age just cannot compete. As we age, muscles break down and so too has that magical 'edge' that Mikey of Old had.

BUT....

Consider that he is, on the average, lapping only tenths behind his teammate who is almost 20 years his junior. Amazing.

The only Schumacher 'myth' to be destroyed, as I see it, is the one Senna started...that Mikey was only good because he was in an illegal car. But it's in the nature of people to knock down something wonderous, so this thread is no surprise to me.

(I would ask everyone to separate Mikey's dubious sportsman attitude from his talent. One is deplorable and the other is...astounding)

Hello, N00b, and welcome to our forums! So...American, huh? Well, we don't like your kind around here so let me refresh you about the rules:

1) There's only one sport called football and that's the one where players dive and you actually use the foot.

2) Only two ovals are accepted here. One is Ron Dennis head shape. The other one isn't.

3) By exotic countries here we mean places like Seychelles, not Canada.

Provided that you agree with the above, we might tolerate you. On a temporary basis.

Now, about Michael's fitness. Yes, he was practically the inventor of fitness in F1. Past were the days when a lump like Nigel Mansell could be considered an F1 driver and not Jabba the Hut's big cousin. But obviously Webber's great shape is not helping him much

Have I told you welcome back? If I didn't is beacuse I don't mean it

[pabloh20 1]

Now, about Michael's fitness. Yes, he was practically the inventor of fitness in F1. Past were the days when a lump like Nigel Mansell could be considered an F1 driver and not Jabba the Hut's big cousin. But obviously Webber's great shape is not helping him much

I'll have you know that our Nige was just big boned.................that is completely the opposite of you, which is why you are single.

[yurp 0]

I'll have you know that our Nige was just big boned.................that is completely the opposite of you, which is why you are single.

small boner?

[pabloh20 1]

small boner?

Indeed. He tried to say the pix were taken when it was cold, but nobody bought it

[Quiet One 15]

Hey, that's not true. Paul, you have a big mouth.

Wait...that didn't sound quite right...

[pabloh20 1]

Hey, that's not true. Paul, you have a big mouth.

Wait...that didn't sound quite right...

[Autumnpuma 0]

Hello, N00b, and welcome to our forums! So...American, huh? Well, we don't like your kind around here so let me refresh you about the rules:

1) There's only one sport called football and that's the one where players dive and you actually use the foot.

2) Only two ovals are accepted here. One is Ron Dennis head shape. The other one isn't.

3) By exotic countries here we mean places like Seychelles, not Canada.

Provided that you agree with the above, we might tolerate you. On a temporary basis.

Now, about Michael's fitness. Yes, he was practically the inventor of fitness in F1. Past were the days when a lump like Nigel Mansell could be considered an F1 driver and not Jabba the Hut's big cousin. But obviously Webber's great shape is not helping him much

Have I told you welcome back? If I didn't is beacuse I don't mean it

Mikey was fit when other drivers weren't. Webber is fit when all the drivers are.

[Quiet One 15]

Mikey was fit when other drivers weren't. Webber is fit when all the drivers are.

Yes, actually that was my point. I didn't want to extend myself but I was also left wandering on what being fit means. Or, more precisely, we all know what it means, but it differs on what it costs to each driver to remain fit. I think that it might have a big impact. I am thinking (surprise, surprise) about Nando. At the end of every GP you see Button and Vettel and you think "did these guys were really in that car, for 1 and a half hour, suffering 5G forces under 40+C temperatures subject to extreme stress? Whereas Nando always look as if he wasn't in the car, but actually running alongside it. He looks always extremely tired, dehydrated with an exhausted smile at best (provided he has something to smile about). So my question is, how much impact it will ultimately have in a guy like Nando when it is obviously so taxing physically for him to race? Will he ever dream of reaching records a la Barrichello? Schumacher, after a 3 years leave, seems to take it better (granted, his races are usually shorter ) I can't think of other drivers that look like Nando at t he end of the races, but it is also true that I only get to see those who finish in the podium (which are always more or less the same) or those who did not finish and get a mid race interview (and thus, are not comparable)

It would be great to see the rest of the field and how each one takes the physical demand of a GP

Anyhow, just some ramblings.

Oh, ok, I'll say it. Welcome back for the duration. Hope you brought a good whiskey.

[monza gorilla 1]

Mikey was fit when other drivers weren't. Webber is fit when all the drivers are.

Succinct. You are learning, Grasshopper.

[pabloh20 1]

Yes, actually that was my point. I didn't want to extend myself but I was also left wandering on what being fit means. Or, more precisely, we all know what it means, but it differs on what it costs to each driver to remain fit. I think that it might have a big impact. I am thinking (surprise, surprise) about Nando. At the end of every GP you see Button and Vettel and you think "did these guys were really in that car, for 1 and a half hour, suffering 5G forces under 40+C temperatures subject to extreme stress? Whereas Nando always look as if he wasn't in the car, but actually running alongside it. He looks always extremely tired, dehydrated with an exhausted smile at best (provided he has something to smile about). So my question is, how much impact it will ultimately have in a guy like Nando when it is obviously so taxing physically for him to race? Will he ever dream of reaching records a la Barrichello? Schumacher, after a 3 years leave, seems to take it better (granted, his races are usually shorter ) I can't think of other drivers that look like Nando at t he end of the races, but it is also true that I only get to see those who finish in the podium (which are always more or less the same) or those who did not finish and get a mid race interview (and thus, are not comparable)

It would be great to see the rest of the field and how each one takes the physical demand of a GP

Anyhow, just some ramblings.

Oh, ok, I'll say it. Welcome back for the duration. Hope you brought a good whiskey.

Just because he looks tired, etc, doesn't mean that he actually is. He could just be, for want of a better description, a sweaty bollocks, so just looks worse, especially with longer hair plastered to his head.

And yes, I am having a state the obvious day

[Quiet One 15]

Just because he looks tired, etc, doesn't mean that he actually is. He could just be, for want of a better description, a sweaty bollocks, so just looks worse, especially with longer hair plastered to his head.

And yes, I am having a state the obvious day

We're not talking about EJ here!