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Shummacher Myths To Be Destroyed One By One...

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Steve, howzit man, was wondering where you are. These points above, don't you think the same applies to Kimi not being able to dial out understeer. I'm talking about the principal of being an F1 driver and having to deal with issues. I mean, it really was'nt Kimi's job to do, they should provide him a car that suit his characteristics is'nt it. Cav went on about how Massa beat Kimi, remember the thread??? But what applies to Kimi certainly applies to Micheal. It might be that Micheal has yet to find his feet again (in terms of competitiveness) and that it might be a while till he's at his best again, but then, this is just another excuse again....is'nt it? It should'nt be, Micheal should have considered the cost when he chose to return!!!

It's funny you should mention this because I do remember that Kimi and Michael's driving styles were supposedly quite similar; there was some clip about driving analysis back when ITV showed the races over here.

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How many times have you had the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when the front end of a car doesn't hook up, versus the times a back end gets loose and then collected by a super skilled hand? Understeer is for whimps. Only true greats prefer and can handle oversteer.

That is a part-pris, biased opinion, just because the one you are trying to defend or worship couldnt adapt to the other style.

If you think any whimp could drive an understeer car, why isn t Michael able to ??? What are you exactly implying???

I think if there was some extraordinary driver out there, well above anyone else, that beats competition hands down, he would not have trouble adapting to whichever car he was given.

Remember, it is the same car for everyone (well, not quite, but in terms of style and lower front grip), and if you refuse to compare MS to his teammate when the car is not favorable for him, HOW CAN SOMEONE IN SANE STATE OF MIND compare MS to Fangio or other greats from the past and say he is the best in history ???

Do you by any chance think Fangio's car were similar to the ones MS drove that suited him????

F1 is a game in which drivers have to run in cars...

The cars change from time to time, due to evolution, change in rules, etc...

Just because some fanboys insist that their idol has to be the best F1 driver ever, does not give them the right to say the current car is not a F1 car or that it should not be used to compare drivers... Others adapted better than him, which shows that he might not be able to beat past heros in their cars. Get over it...

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It's funny you should mention this because I do remember that Kimi and Michael's driving styles were supposedly quite similar; there was some clip about driving analysis back when ITV showed the races over here.

They fall in the same catagory yes... great manipulative driver's. They are drivers that know exactly what it takes to extract the most speed out of a car. Senna rates the greatest amongts this class...

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It's funny you should mention this because I do remember that Kimi and Michael's driving styles were supposedly quite similar; there was some clip about driving analysis back when ITV showed the races over here.

Hm. I'm curious to see why ITV thought they drove similar. They both do like a pointy car, but Kimi's usual entry is a bit wider and faster and he coasts through the apex whereas Mikey blips the throttle (though not as frenetic as Senna used to). Mikey is also smoother on the throttle at exit and gets on the power sooner, feeding it back in almost at apex. Mikey's speed is based on the throttle blips at apex and an early exit throttle whereas Kimi's speed is based on quick cornering with reflexive, correcting steering input at apex.

Not similar enough in my book to make the statement ITV apparently has. But then, Martin Brundle has a history of getting certain driver's styles wrong in analysis (Alonso in particular..though he's corrected that).

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Hm. I'm curious to see why ITV thought they drove similar. They both do like a pointy car, but Kimi's usual entry is a bit wider and faster and he coasts through the apex whereas Mikey blips the throttle (though not as frenetic as Senna used to). Mikey is also smoother on the throttle at exit and gets on the power sooner, feeding it back in almost at apex. Mikey's speed is based on the throttle blips at apex and an early exit throttle whereas Kimi's speed is based on quick cornering with reflexive, correcting steering input at apex.

Not similar enough in my book to make the statement ITV apparently has. But then, Martin Brundle has a history of getting certain driver's styles wrong in analysis (Alonso in particular..though he's corrected that).

If I remember correctly it was 2006 and the clip was comparing Schumacher, Button, and Alonso's cornering techniques. They described Schumacher's like you said, and then said that Kimi Raikkonen's was similar, although they may have been saying that only in reference to their corner entry style. I can't remember tbh, and it looks like the suits have had it removed from YouTube.

A shame the BBC don't do much on the different driving styles of the current grid really. One of the most interesting aspects imo.

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Kimi and MIkey do share one habit and it's that neither one of them are natural late brakers. Both can do it when they need to, however, depending on the turn or the situation. Driver's styles are one truly fascinating part of F1 for me. I could watch helicopter shots and onboards all day.

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If I remember correctly it was 2006 and the clip was comparing Schumacher, Button, and Alonso's cornering techniques. They described Schumacher's like you said, and then said that Kimi Raikkonen's was similar, although they may have been saying that only in reference to their corner entry style. I can't remember tbh, and it looks like the suits have had it removed from YouTube.

A shame the BBC don't do much on the different driving styles of the current grid really. One of the most interesting aspects imo.

I wish I could see those videos.

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A shame the BBC don't do much on the different driving styles of the current grid really. One of the most interesting aspects imo.

That's something I've missed from the F1 Racing Magazine. When Matt Bishop was the editor we got all sorts of driver analysis, even down to publishing the driver's telemetry. Not anymore. Sad.

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Schumacher’s current contract with Mercedes is for three years and it is the first time since he joined Ferrari in 1996 that he does not enjoy undisputed number one status in the team.

Looks like the media is finally awaking from this fairy tale dream.

But to be fair, a whole 0.7 sec gap in Quali and a full minute in the race cannot be only due to the driver...

But that was also true when he was significantly faster than his teammates...

So how good was MS all this time?

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Hm. I'm curious to see why ITV thought they drove similar. They both do like a pointy car, but Kimi's usual entry is a bit wider and faster and he coasts through the apex whereas Mikey blips the throttle (though not as frenetic as Senna used to). Mikey is also smoother on the throttle at exit and gets on the power sooner, feeding it back in almost at apex. Mikey's speed is based on the throttle blips at apex and an early exit throttle whereas Kimi's speed is based on quick cornering with reflexive, correcting steering input at apex.

Not similar enough in my book to make the statement ITV apparently has. But then, Martin Brundle has a history of getting certain driver's styles wrong in analysis (Alonso in particular..though he's corrected that).

guys, I said they're the same type of driver, not necessarily that they have similiar styles....

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So how good was MS all this time?

good enough to enforce driver nr1 status, it seems... I always thought Barrichello had 2 good year's when he could have won the champiosnhip when they were teammates.

This would never have been in question if Schumie did'nt decide to return, it was way too risky damaging his colourful career

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Times when Micheal was able to storm from the very back of the field over and over again, when he could win with a gear missing, when he could overtake anyone anywhere, anyhow he wishes, expecting his team mates to move over.....all those things are gone.....times have changed, he came back just to prove how strong the oposition has become...even though that was not what he intended.....the young boys are a way too fast. Micheal will show his old stuff now and then here and there, but he is not driving the Ferrari that was built with the special relationship with FIA like in the past...I respect his achievements..But I always knew how he did it...the past few races proved my reason to belive what I have always belived in....and I don't want to say it aloud because it would p**s few guys off.. :P

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You guys are all so negative. Let him have his retirement fun. He just wants to drive, I think he has earned at least that much. It took Lauda 3 years to win his last WDC and he did it to get some money to keep his airline afloat. Either way, he will be the most successful driver of all time probably forever

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Times when Micheal was able to storm from the very back of the field over and over again, when he could win with a gear missing, when he could overtake anyone anywhere, anyhow he wishes, expecting his team mates to move over.....all those things are gone.....times have changed, he came back just to prove how strong the oposition has become...even though that was not what he intended.....the young boys are a way too fast. Micheal will show his old stuff now and then here and there, but he is not driving the Ferrari that was built with the special relationship with FIA like in the past...I respect his achievements..But I always knew how he did it...the past few races proved my reason to belive what I have always belived in....and I don't want to say it aloud because it would p**s few guys off.. :P

Well said Jean, your word is a qualify one cause you were part of the "special relationship"

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Well said Jean, your word is a qualify one cause you were part of the "special relationship"

:P totally uncalled for....

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This is my FIRST post on this forum and I hope to have a great time debating with all of you's here ....

I am a die-hard , almost suicidal, Michael Schumacher fan. I started watching F1 in 94 and stopped at the end of 2006 .. What was the point ? Schumacher was the show all those years.And now that he's back, well Im back too. People have to realize that with Michael Schumacher's return the sport has had HUGE ratings and will continue to do so until he re-retires from the sport. In reality, the F1 world and it's fans want to see Schumacher winning than any other driver presently on the grid, be it Alonso,Hamilton,Button etc... In all honesty nobody cares about those drivers- it's schumacher there more interested in and that has been the case for the last 15 years or so .. How can you explain that a driver who has been out of the sport for 3 years still gets votes as the most Popular F1 driver on the grid? ( LG-F1 Racing Pole 2010)

His first 4 races has'nt been Schumacher-esque .TRUE ..But neither was Michael Jordan's return in 95 with the Chicago Bulls either. Those who watched Jordan's return in 95 were abit dissapointed too.Jordan came back after a 21 month retirement from basketball and in his first game he was'nt the Michael Jordan fans remembered him as. He and his team got eliminated in the second round of the playoffs and EVEYBODY were writing Jordan's obituary.But guess what happenned afterwards ? He trained hard during the off season and got back to basketball physique form, his legs got stronger and he improved his shot. He then went on to win 3 consecutive NBA championships ,cementing even more his status as the best basketball player in the world.

My point in all of this ? When your a genius, you stay a genius. And Schumacher is just that !

Like Schumacher has said recently :'' There are not more competetive drivers, there are just more competetive teams '' ,, The BS that today's generation is stronger than it was in Schumacher's heyday is all a load of bullcrap... So if that's the case than that means Hakkinen,Villenueve,Hill,Frentzen,Alesi,Montoya,Button,Raikkonen,Coulthard etc etc etc were all Sh#t drivers?

You take a 1998 version of Mika Hakkinen and put Alonso or Hamilton or Raikkonen next to him in the same car and Hakkinen would EAT all 3 of them alive anyday of the week and twice on sunday... The older generation were old school and today's drivers come from the Playstation generation. There is no comparison.

Schumacher might not maybe make a difference this year but he will next season. It's only normal. It does take time no matter who you are.

3 years is still 3 years.He even said it himself right at the beginning of the season that he did not believe this year was going to be his year, that's why he signed for 3 years !I'm not worried at all... It seems these days the whole world is out to get him and the press from all 4 corners of the earth are out to get him. The English press, Italian Press and Spanish Press are on his back.But that's okay as the saying goes: what does'nt kill you makes you stronger ...

Im happy very much for Rosberg so far. He's doing a fantastic job...However Nico is'nt any faster than Schumi's previous teamates , it's Schumacher who presently is'nt as fast as HE is supposed to be at the moment....That's the reality.

I bet if and when Schumacher pulls out a stunner performance this season the haters and bashers will crawl back under their rocks from where they came from. So enjoy while it lasts guys.

I really hope it's a question that Schumacher needs the car to handle how he wants it and if that's what Schumacher needs is a car to be built around him than the sooner he gets it by Brawn and mercedes the faster Schumacher is going to win his 8th title.

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This is my FIRST post on this forum and I hope to have a great time debating with all of you's here ....

I am a die-hard , almost suicidal, Michael Schumacher fan. I started watching F1 in 94 and stopped at the end of 2006 .. What was the point ? Schumacher was the show all those years.And now that he's back, well Im back too. People have to realize that with Michael Schumacher's return the sport has had HUGE ratings and will continue to do so until he re-retires from the sport. In reality, the F1 world and it's fans want to see Schumacher winning than any other driver presently on the grid, be it Alonso,Hamilton,Button etc... In all honesty nobody cares about those drivers- it's schumacher there more interested in and that has been the case for the last 15 years or so .. How can you explain that a driver who has been out of the sport for 3 years still gets votes as the most Popular F1 driver on the grid? ( LG-F1 Racing Pole 2010)

His first 4 races has'nt been Schumacher-esque .TRUE ..But neither was Michael Jordan's return in 95 with the Chicago Bulls either. Those who watched Jordan's return in 95 were abit dissapointed too.Jordan came back after a 21 month retirement from basketball and in his first game he was'nt the Michael Jordan fans remembered him as. He and his team got eliminated in the second round of the playoffs and EVEYBODY were writing Jordan's obituary.But guess what happenned afterwards ? He trained hard during the off season and got back to basketball physique form, his legs got stronger and he improved his shot. He then went on to win 3 consecutive NBA championships ,cementing even more his status as the best basketball player in the world.

My point in all of this ? When your a genius, you stay a genius. And Schumacher is just that !

Like Schumacher has said recently :'' There are not more competetive drivers, there are just more competetive teams '' ,, The BS that today's generation is stronger than it was in Schumacher's heyday is all a load of bullcrap... So if that's the case than that means Hakkinen,Villenueve,Hill,Frentzen,Alesi,Montoya,Button,Raikkonen,Coulthard etc etc etc were all Sh#t drivers?

You take a 1998 version of Mika Hakkinen and put Alonso or Hamilton or Raikkonen next to him in the same car and Hakkinen would EAT all 3 of them alive anyday of the week and twice on sunday... The older generation were old school and today's drivers come from the Playstation generation. There is no comparison.

Schumacher might not maybe make a difference this year but he will next season. It's only normal. It does take time no matter who you are.

3 years is still 3 years.He even said it himself right at the beginning of the season that he did not believe this year was going to be his year, that's why he signed for 3 years !I'm not worried at all... It seems these days the whole world is out to get him and the press from all 4 corners of the earth are out to get him. The English press, Italian Press and Spanish Press are on his back.But that's okay as the saying goes: what does'nt kill you makes you stronger ...

Im happy very much for Rosberg so far. He's doing a fantastic job...However Nico is'nt any faster than Schumi's previous teamates , it's Schumacher who presently is'nt as fast as HE is supposed to be at the moment....That's the reality.

I bet if and when Schumacher pulls out a stunner performance this season the haters and bashers will crawl back under their rocks from where they came from. So enjoy while it lasts guys.

I really hope it's a question that Schumacher needs the car to handle how he wants it and if that's what Schumacher needs is a car to be built around him than the sooner he gets it by Brawn and mercedes the faster Schumacher is going to win his 8th title.

Cav 's gonna love you man, and you won't be called an idiot....

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I wouldn't say that Michael has 'brought back ratings' or Indeed 'nobody cares about Alonso, Hamilton, Button' - Thats the biggest pile of -to quote Steve- codwank I've heard in my life.

Explain how ticket sales have gone through the roof since Lewis started racing. How there's a bigger fanbase of spaniards since Alonso became champion. How Jenson has had more column inches than any other driver in the UK this season. I concede Michael has a huge fan base, but you cannot deny that F1 got pretty monotonous and lost a lot of fans due to him winning constantly. Sure, I love Michael too. But he's most definitely NOT the reason the ratings are higher. That is lunacy.

Welcome to TF1 by the way.

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Welcome aboard Mr.Gaga. I don't agree with what you say, but it's nice to have more Schumi fans back to compensate for the dwindling numbers of Kimi fans :lol:

By the way, have you read the Liuzzi's fans brochures? We have a nice dental plan!

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Welcome aboard Mr.Gaga. I don't agree with what you say, but it's nice to have more Schumi fans back to compensate for the dwindling numbers of Kimi fans :lol:

By the way, have you read the Liuzzi's fans brochures? We have a nice dental plan!

:lol:

Indeed, you need to preserve as much as possible in that area, while you still can :whistling:

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Schumacher was a ruthless driver who had Ferrari and Whiting looking after his interests. He accomplished more than he deserved but, still, he is a man of achievement... even if the achievement is quite short of "best in F1 history" despite stats.

It is amusing ot see who now Whiting's sexual proclivities are gifted on another driver. Sucks for Schumacher but makes for equal amusement for the rest of us. As for Ferrari, Todt, Brawn, and Schumacher stole the team's doing for years and most of them have greatly benefited from it. Brawn made a killing by ripping off Honda. Todt got the king's seat. He got it for free and to do nothing with it or for it... a true gift. As for Schumacher, well, he is what he was... a man that towered men when he had the men to tower them.

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Welcome to the forums, Gaga. Your post was so riddled full of bias, inaccuracies, conjecture, irrelevant examples and misinterpretations that you must have set some kind of forum record! Sadly it was stated with such certainty that I fear providing rebuttals to each point would be a waste of my precious time; so I won't bother!

On the plus side, you did get this bit right, probably: "Im happy very much for Rosberg so far. He's doing a fantastic job...However Nico is'nt any faster than Schumi's previous teamates , it's Schumacher who presently is'nt as fast as HE is supposed to be at the moment....That's the reality"

Anyway, enjoy your stay, and keep posting (I can only hope practice really does make perfect) :D

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Welcome to the forums, Gaga. Your post was so riddled full of bias, inaccuracies, conjecture, irrelevant examples and misinterpretations that you must have set some kind of forum record!

My post was just as biased in the same way as the anti-ms brigade have been spewing their excuses for the last 15 years or so ....

all I said was true - maybe a bit bias your right but not full inaccuracies as you say it was

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