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shields

Shummacher Myths To Be Destroyed One By One...

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OK. Cool, thats dandy. But the simple fact of the matter is that Michael made the team his own? Why? Because he pushed harder. If I was in Rubens' shoes, I'd have pushed even harder and fought for longer to wrestle back control. It is do-able.

You said yourself he was brought to the team and paid to be number two, therefore already accepting his lot in life to a far superior driver.

I agree with you, I like Rubens and I wanted him to win last year WDC but obviously he is lacking something, the reason why he was order toa hand that victory in Austria to Michael was the point difference between the two of them, at that point Rubens was far behind Michael in the score so the more logical action was to fully support Michael, I think Rubens did try hard but soemtimes your best is not as good as someone else's best and I think that was his case, the same happened to him last season, he was beaten by Button and he was trying hard but he couldn't get the results he was expecting.

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You said yourself he was brought to the team and paid to be number two, therefore already accepting his lot in life to a far superior driver.

true, it's sad that we'll never really know, but this thing with Rosberg does give us new perspective, I guess

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I agree with you, I like Rubens and I wanted him to win last year WDC but obviously he is lacking something, the reason why he was order toa hand that victory in Austria to Michael was the point difference between the two of them, at that point Rubens was far behind Michael in the score so the more logical action was to fully support Michael, I think Rubens did try hard but soemtimes your best is not as good as someone else's best and I think that was his case, the same happened to him last season, he was beaten by Button and he was trying hard but he couldn't get the results he was expecting.

Is that true? Sorry I thought it was early during the season, thats why the whole big controversy commotion, have'nt checked the stats, might be wrong...

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Is that true? Sorry I thought it was early during the season, thats why the whole big controversy commotion, have'nt checked the stats, might be wrong...

Austria was the 6th race of that season and teh score was 44 points for MSC and 6 for RB.

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Austria was the 6th race of that season and teh score was 44 points for MSC and 6 for RB.

Looks like Ruben's needed the points pretty badly :D

Who was Michael afraid of anyway?

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Moss suggests the return was a mistake and that it has only served to highlight his belief that the most successful driver in F1 history never before had a team-mate as quick and determined as Rosberg is proving to be to genuinely put him under pressure.

“In a word, no,” the British racing legend told Metro, when asked if he could understand Schumacher's decision. “He's a highly intelligent bloke, and I really can't see…all he's going to do is damage his achievements. People are going to say that he's past it now, which he probably is. We've never seen Michael with a 'number two' who has been comparable. He had Rubens Barrichello who no doubt is an extremely good driver, but not necessarily a winner.

Michael's greatest contribution was bringing English engineers to Ferrari. Ross Brawn and those chaps brought Ferrari from being has-beens back to the front. Because he didn't have a truly competitive team-mate, it was very difficult to know how much of it was down Michael and how much was the car. People say he's the best because he has seven world titles, but that doesn't mean anything really. Well, it does mean something – it's a hell of an achievement – but it doesn't mean he's the greatest ever.”

People say it's because he's been away for three years and that sort of stuff, but I'm going to stick to what I said at the start of the season,” the 16-time grand prix-winner added in a column on ESPN. “His seven world titles are, in my mind, misleading, and I think we are seeing proof of that now he is up against Rosberg. Rosberg has proved himself as the team's 'number one', and he's been faster than Schumacher in all circumstances.

Thanks God there are some people out there that exactly agree with me on all points...

Looks like I am S. Moss disguised in this forum...

I would love to see Cavallino saying 100 times he is stupid, as he did with me... :)

(of course, Cavallino, feel free to not write any sensible arguments, as usual... Just call him stupid and that will be enough...)

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Looks like Ruben's needed the points pretty badly :D

Who was Michael afraid of anyway?

He was affraid of championships lost by a single point like it happened to Lewis.

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The question we should be asking is:

If it were Rubens driving a Ferrari, with MS as teammate... With Michael in vice-leading the WDC with 50 points against 10 points from Rubens...

Would a team care to redesign the car around Rubens taste? Or would a team prefer to focus on the driver with more chances in the WDC...???

That was the excuse all the time to focus on MS over all his teammates... But now, the thing was inverted... Meaning that the real reason behind all those preferential treatments might not be purely based on drivers performance...

Friendship with team staff may have played a big role in MS success, which is a proof of intelligence... and I admire him for that... (intelligence should prevail over raw performance)

I think the difference here in this Merc/Ferrari hypothetical is the motivations of Mercedes in F1 this year.

When they brought Schumi in instead of hiring a Kubica or retaining Button, they showed that their primary interest in being in F1 is the marketing value for their production cars and overall brand name. Having Schumacher, that perennial Ferrari icon, suddenly switch from a prancing horse to a three-point star on his hat during interviews, and doing Merc commercials, etc was just too attractive to pass up.

Because of this motivation, they might even be more happy with Michael and Nico ending up 5th and 6th in the championship than having Nico coming 3rd and Michael coming 9th at the end.

It begins to look bad on them if the 'greatest of all time' is seen to be under performing with Mercedes power.

I agree that if their goal was to fight for the championship this year, they would indeed be displaying different behavior.

--

Another argument that has some merit: Just because there is a car re-design coming at Merc doesn't mean the main underlying intention is to favor Michael over Nico. The car could have some deficiencies that both men agree upon. Nico has been impressive thus far, however he has made some smart calls about dry/wet tire choices, just like Button, and it has paid off for him. 50 points in the championship doesn't mean Nico feels the car is perfect and wants further development to cease. If the car is understeery, it's quite likely both drivers are looking forward to the change.

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All due respect Brad, he didn't try hard enough. The answer is in your answer. The team was built around Michael who obviously did try hard enough.

My point is some of us are born survivors, we make our own path in life, we create opportunity and we work hard to build on our success. For some of us, failure is not just an option but its not a way of life.

For others, they try. Its in their grasp to achieve greatness but they just cant reach. Failure isn't something that they want but if it happens they deal.

Then you have the followers. They never set the trend. They look at the world and are quite convent to just keep living and following like sheep.

Michael is in the first camp. Rubens isn't. Thats what makes him outstanding.

Perfect. Every word.

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schumachers1004_3.jpg

Gotta love Sniff Petrol.

I agree with Steph. I think it's well documented that Schumi's people skills were an important part of his success. Rubens doesn't have such team building skills, most drivers don't.

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Ha! I just choked! Awesome!

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Another disapointing Qualy and race from Schummi? or what you guys think?

Maybe he had too much of tyre wearing, but according to Luciano Burti (ex-f1 driver), MS was known as a tyre consummer, who was terrible at preserving the tyres...

In my opinion, although this is a matter of style, in the end knowing how to nurse the tyres when needed should be part of what makes a good driver...

Apart from Cavalino and friends, anybody else thinks he got the most out of the car?

I dont think so, by looking at where his teammate finished, as well as other drivers:

Kubica

Seb Buemi

Vit Liuzzi

A. Sutil

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I think there's the Canada GP thread to discuss this, rather than resurrecting this dead donkey.

If you direct yourself over them ways, you'd read what people thought.

:rolleyes:

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I saw this thread had moved up the list again so I clicked on it to go the first unread post. I started reading thinking it all made perfect sense in response to the Canadian GP, then about 5 minutes later realised that I was reading posts from April! Just goes to show how we all have our own pet topics and how we recycle them as and when we get some new impetus. Anyone been thinking about spec cars recently? I reckon they'd be really good.

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I saw this thread had moved up the list again so I clicked on it to go the first unread post. I started reading thinking it all made perfect sense in response to the Canadian GP, then about 5 minutes later realised that I was reading posts from April! Just goes to show how we all have our own pet topics and how we recycle them as and when we get some new impetus. Anyone been thinking about spec cars recently? I reckon they'd be really good.

That sums it up very well, you won't see a reply from Mr. Shield about this if Schumi have a great result in Valencia. :P

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Sorry if pondering his brilliant career with some evidences only revealed now that he is in equal conditions in a not superb car... But in no way my intention is/was to demerit him... Only to make him as human as any other drivers...

This topic is about evidences showing he is human and that every past myth about him was just a myth...

And I will comment in this thread whenever a clarifying situation arises...

Sorry if that bothers his fanboys...

Like the comment from LH:

"In past years there have been different demands, such as in 2007 when traction control made things a little easier," said Hamilton.

Does that mean that MS enjoyed an easier car during most of his career, and maybe the main cause for his "human" or "just regular" season is the lack of traction control or other aids????

Some food for thoughts...

PS - There will be no need to comment when he performs well, since that is what people expect from him.... But it is clear that he is not Mr Miracle who does more than what the car allows...

Maybe he win a race this year, and I really expect him to do so... But that is not impossible as Fisico, Panis and others already won in an even poorer car ... But feel free to write here when he does... That is what Forums are for...

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This topic is about evidences showing he is human

Well done and thank you. I thought he was made of tungsten and cheese.

PS - There will be no need to comment when he performs well, since that is what people expect from him.... But it is clear that he is not Mr Miracle who does more than what the car allows...

Translation: I'm allowed to say when I think he's doing bad. You're not allowed to say when you think he's doing well because you think he should be anyway. Either way, it makes me look better. Something I can't do in real life.

Maybe he win a race this year, and I really expect him to do so... But that is not impossible as Fisico, Panis and others already won in an even poorer car ... But feel free to write here when he does... That is what Forums are for...[/font]

Thank you for allowing us to write in your glorious thread, if and when he wins. In the meantime, I know my place. *crouches down to kiss feet*.

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Sorry if pondering his brilliant career with some evidences only revealed now that he is in equal conditions in a not superb car... But in no way my intention is/was to demerit him... Only to make him as human as any other drivers...

This topic is about evidences showing he is human and that every past myth about him was just a myth...

And I will comment in this thread whenever a clarifying situation arises...

Sorry if that bothers his fanboys...

Like the comment from LH:

"In past years there have been different demands, such as in 2007 when traction control made things a little easier," said Hamilton.

Does that mean that MS enjoyed an easier car during most of his career, and maybe the main cause for his "human" or "just regular" season is the lack of traction control or other aids????

Some food for thoughts...

PS - There will be no need to comment when he performs well, since that is what people expect from him.... But it is clear that he is not Mr Miracle who does more than what the car allows...

Maybe he win a race this year, and I really expect him to do so... But that is not impossible as Fisico, Panis and others already won in an even poorer car ... But feel free to write here when he does... That is what Forums are for...

Not a fanboy. I'm female.

My advice to you was to read the other threads before coming to log on in your excitement to do a bit of Michael bashing, don't lie and say you're not, read - then you'll know what people think before asking. Its quite easy.

I'm sick of constantly reading 'I'm entitled to have my opinion.' Well. I'm entitled to mine. Shut the **** up with your constant criticisms and look at the bigger picture. Its boring. Just my opinion.

Your turn.

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I saw this thread had moved up the list again so I clicked on it to go the first unread post. I started reading thinking it all made perfect sense in response to the Canadian GP, then about 5 minutes later realised that I was reading posts from April! Just goes to show how we all have our own pet topics and how we recycle them as and when we get some new impetus. Anyone been thinking about spec cars recently? I reckon they'd be really good.

Spec cars are great. IRL and GP2 rock.

EDIT: Dammit, where are the sarcasm tags?

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Guest gforce56

Schumi has been out for 3 years and is 41. That's over the limit in age plus Three F1 Generations that he missed not to mention a totally new team/car to race with. I think he is where he should be now. I really do.

I will be very surprised if he doesn't come back to the podiums by Monza or Suzuka.

I won't write him off yet...

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That sums it up very well, you won't see a reply from Mr. Shield about this if Schumi have a great result in Valencia

Well, I was willing to prove you wrong, but he did not help me...

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Well, I was willing to prove you wrong, but he did not help me...

Oops. Still not this time.

It is not the first time he finish behind Barrichello this season, is it?

Is Williams better than Mercedez...

I dont know about you, but Rubens is doing a much better season than Michael, and if he was rusty in the beginning, he should be delivering right now...

I understand F1 is not only about the driver, maybe his set up team is not inline with him, or whatever...

But that was also true in other circunstances, not only when it is convenient for the fanboys... For instance, maybe, just maybe, Rubens was indeed getting 2nd preferential treatment, and his car was never the way he liked, just like what may be happening with Michael.

I never believed Rubens was that worst than MS... I think in equal conditions the two would split the wins and points in almost equal terms... like 60-40 or 55-45%...

What Rubens is doing in a Williams suggests just that...

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Thats funny. Come back and say that when Rubinho has 7 world titles. Even then you can only say he is as good.

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What was really telling, for me, was when Kobayashi jumped him in the pit-stops. The Michael of old would have had awesome in and out laps and never allowed that to happen. Then, he was out foxed by fellow German, Sutil.

Yes, Michael is not driving as well as he was, this much is clear. Does this prove that he was not something special before though? Only a monkey brained, snot gobbling, cod wank deposit would use such lame evidence.

Please, continue.

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