Schumikonen

The Official Chinese Grand Prix

419 posts in this topic

What could have been done, what would have been done, and what should have been done, though, are all a bit silly to debate. They made the call, the decision's final, life goes on.

Maybe we should talk about things we can all agree on, like who twatface is, or who is the best, or what spec rear wing Ferrari will use in Barcelona, or Massa's racecraft, or how great Batracer is. Maybe we could even have a Michael Schumacher topic; we don't have enough of those.

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Thanks Steph

I'll let this open, so the person who want to report the next race may come forward and put himself or herself in th line of fire,(that's will let me release all my bias again) so is anyone is interested in the next report just have to post it here, the first to do it will be the winner, now let's wait and see who that one will be :P

Good reporting, Tommy, but you're breaking the only rule that exists for these things.....you gotta choose the next victim reporter! I'm sure you'll choose well.

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Good reporting, Tommy, but you're breaking the only rule that exists for these things.....you gotta choose the next victim reporter! I'm sure you'll choose well.

So you are telling me that whoever I chose for the next report will have to do it? :naughty: oh man I feel so powerful :P

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What could have been done, what would have been done, and what should have been done, though, are all a bit silly to debate. They made the call, the decision's final, life goes on.

Maybe we should talk about things we can all agree on, like who twatface is, or who is the best, or what spec rear wing Ferrari will use in Barcelona, or Massa's racecraft, or how great Batracer is. Maybe we could even have a Michael Schumacher topic; we don't have enough of those.

I don't think there is a single topic that we all agree, no even if I am biased against Alonso or if I am a Kimi's fan :eusa_think: I can't think of what that topic will be.

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f1-20100418131534-6861.jpg

I don't see any difference between this move an cutting a chicane.

Here is what Brundle think about Stewards decisions, I like te part that he said that BOTH Vettel and Hamilton should have been penalized.

F1 - Stewards too lenient on drivers claims Brundle

Martin Brundle says that he would push for harsher decisions and penalties if he was a Formula One steward.

So far this year - to give additional credibility to the officials' adjudications - experienced former drivers including Alain Prost, Johnny Herbert and Alex Wurz have acted as race stewards.

Although Brundle argues that the ‘brutal and sometimes unfathomable penalties’ of the recent past have now been eradicated, he thinks the stewards are now being too lenient.

The former McLaren driver, a full-time commentator for British television since retiring in 1996, wrote in his BBC column that Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton should have been penalised for their pitlane antics in China.

"They both received a reprimand, but what does that mean,” questioned Brundle. “How long does a reprimand last and how many are you allowed to collect before a real penalty? They are lucky I wasn't the resident driver steward for the weekend because I would have strongly recommended dropping them both some penalty places on the grid for the next race in Barcelona.

"The decision taken has set a very dangerous precedent.”

Brundle also said race winner Jenson Button deserved a penalty for unduly slowing behind the safety car prior to a race restart.

"I wouldn't have been a popular steward with my former McLaren team but that job is not a popularity contest,” he concluded.

I wonder what that guy would have said if Button or Lewis had been punished....he would have said something just the opposite..well, he gets paid to talk...sometimes even rubish counts...

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Horribly long post.

With so much going on I am not sure who I should reply to first and, frankly, some views are so strongly biased it is impossible. So, I randomly picked one guy to reply to and...surprise, surprise.. it was you, George! :D

I don't agree with you here, but you are one of the few intelligent enough with whom i can agree to disagree so, you are worth the disagreement.-

Faster than most of them is Alonso, which reduced a 70 seconds margin from the lead to a 4th position in just some laps. The SC helped? Take it out of the equation, he was still...what? 8th by the time? 12th? Doesn't matter. Yes, yes...he is an ogre. He pushed Massa out of the way which is in some paralell Lewis-centric universe so much worse than pushing out Vettel, then being released from the pits alongside Vettel (which is as forbidden as a jump start) and let Vettel be blamed for pushing a guy THAT SHOULDNT BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE towards the pits because "it's dangerous"(????). anyways, back to Alonso...he also is arrogant and has an ugly face.

Button: Button was faster than anyone else. Somehow. And brake tested the whole field. Not a nice thing to do.

Petrov: he is a rookie. He is there only because he brought loads of money. And yet he is going around overtaking cars? Are you kidding me? Go back to Moscow, you georgeless communist!

Vettel: He is an infant for George's sake! Go back to the kindergarten! Worst of all, you are making Webbo look incompetent and he is everybody's friend. He even calls us Formula One driveridoos!

Yet...nobody (or at least, few of their fellow drivers) hates them. Why? Because even the evil Alonso (the only among these guys that has a "dark" personality") reaches the level of bullying Lewis has and yet gets away with it. The "he is a figting driver, that's what everybody wanted isn't it" is wrong. Hard fighting is great, but is not a black and white situation. The battle with Vettel in the pits was not something I like. It was dirty, it was coward. It's like punching someone below the belt. I agreed with the jump start penalty for Alonso even though I am against th penalty fests. Some limits are ok. As few as possible, but still I don't wanna see a guy bring a bazooka and just kill everybody else at hte starting grid. Last race's weaving was also rather tasteless, if still on the edge of legality. Much like Alonso's pass on Massa was tasteless, even if legitimate it seems.

The difference? Alonso (and I am picking him as an example here NOT BECAUSE I AM A FAN OF HIM, BUT BECAUSE HE IS THE SECOND DIRTIEST DRIVER IN THIS RACE) has his "moments" but they are few and far between. Lewis goes from one to another. Don't ask me...everybody thinks he is an accident waiting to happen. Button's move under the SC was also tasteless but nobody thinks as lowly of him as they think of Lewis.

Lucky me! :P

So your point is that Lewis is a much more controversial driver who gets involved in more incidents and gets away with them more often? And that is why the other drivers/lots of other people don't like him? Well yeah, I agree - Lewis' driving pushes the rules to the limits. So the other drivers dislike him not just because Lewis is clearly such a good driver, but from other stuff too: like getting involved in various incidents (e.g. weaving, passing Vettel in the pitlane entrance etc etc), and probably also because he got into a good car so quickly, and maybe his personality sucks, too. Either way, I don't really care what other people think of Lewis.

Hamilton is a controversial driver, but he provides so much of the spectacle that for me, as a viewer, I like him as a driver. If I was a GP driver, I'd probably hate him for all those reasons above. I read something today, Hamilton has made 32 overtaking manoeuvres this season already, Button has made 7. That's essentially why I like Lewis more than Button, even though I still respect Button's other skills which essentially come down to outsmarting Lewis rather than outdriving him. I guess it's odd that I prefer the Hamilton approach rather than Button's because the latter is much more my style of doing things. I suppose it all comes down to taste. I thought the pitlane entry passes were brilliant and opportunistic. A competitive person finding an opportunity which is there for everyone, but only the best can exploit it. That to me is a good definition of sport, but again, is a matter of taste.

Did Lewis deserve a penalty for any single one of his actions? Tough call. The unsafe release is a simple rule: you release the car when another car is within certain radius, that's an unsafe release. Just like "you start before the lights go out" it is a jump start, doesn't matter if it was imperceptible as Alonso's jump start was. Again, the difference? Almost nobody respects the unsafe release radius, otherwise the pitstop frenzy would take hours to clear up when they all dive at the same minute. But this was not the case, there were two cars only, and the intention was pretty obvious. There wasn't too much to discuss. Let's say you want to be lenient on this one. And lenient on Alonso vs Massa, and lenient on Button under the SC...when you will stop? The only other option is a Nazi-Mosley like draconian legislation? Not necessarily.

Personally I don't think the supposed "unsafe release" was all that unsafe, I think it's a hard thing to judge when the two cars pit boxes are so close together, and it's virtually impossible to account for how much wheelspin each car will get in those conditions so it's a grey area unlike the jump start rule which is clear cut. Btw we'll have to disagree on Alonso's jump start being imperceptible, it certainly was very difficult to call from the television angle pointing down the straight (I would have believed that Alonso made a great start and the RB's a poor one), but the lights guy [Charlie?] spotted it immediately and so did Brundle (who importantly was watching from out of the window, not the TV).

Anyway, back to the unsafe release, that would be Mclaren's responsibility and not something I would put squarely on Lewis. Though I do think that Lewis probably should have ceded position to Vettel, not from a rules or safety perspective, but from a driving one. There is nothing in the rules (I think) about driving in that part of the pitlane, i.e. two cars alongside each other. But from a driving perspective the pitlane exit is only big enough for one so Lewis should have just backed off earlier because Vettel was already there so he has the "right of way" I guess. What Vettel did though was unnecessary, he gained no advantage from pushing Lewis over to the "occupied" part of the pitlane. That was bad from Vettel because it was unnecessary (Lewis had no chance of overtaking him whilst on the pitlane speed limiter) and potentially dangerous if there had been people there. Okay, danger is relative, but it was certainly a reckless and worthless act on Seb's part (no doubt his judgement failed him because he was fuming from Hammy's pass in the pitlane entrance).

I'd suggest that if Hamilton and Seb had been in the opposite positions, and Hammy had pushed Seb over to the "staffed" area of the pitlane, then there might be quite a lot more being written about that. But that obviously goes back to your point about being involved in lots of incidents, it clearly colours some peoples perceptions of each individual incident, when really each one should be looked at in isolation.

Obviously the stewards can be too lenient, was that the case in this GP? Yes, probably. Button should have been reprimanded (I think), Vettel probably should have got more than a reprimand for his pitlane antics (although perhaps lack of past transgressions was a factor in both cases?), and Hamilton should have been penalised for his late pitlane entry (which I can't understand why there is no penalty but refuse to accept the "FIA favour Hamilton" 'argument'.)

I too think it's possible to have a compromise between the draconian penalties of previous years and the opposite end of the scale which the stewards were fairly close to in this GP. Then again, read the posts on this forum Andres and you can quickly see the problems with giving out penalties and the different interpretations (obviously there are issues of bias but I doubt the stewards are bias free, they are people after all). Obviously if I was deciding most of the decisions would be consistent and reasonable but sadly I'm not :whistling:

IMHO: Lewis should have been penalized but the reason I think he should I am not sure even exists in the sporting regulations: what in football is known as reiterated minor infractions (I don't know how to call it in English) which basically means "Ok, none of the fouls you committed were murderous, but we are all fed up with your abuse and so you get a penalty so if you wanna keep being a bully this is the limit". If there is no such thing then maybe the warnings they give to Lewis should be more specific: you do another "grey area" move and we will interpret it the worst possible way. You can be a brilliant sportsman without having to act like an a##.

Football is not my area but I know what you mean. I agree, it doesn't make sense that you can get limitless reprimands in F1 (as far as I know) without automatically getting some kind of penalty. That is something which should certainly be introduced and would perhaps make things seem "fairer" for everyone. A 3 strikes rule would do it, which was wiped clean at the end of the season.

We were talking about Borg on the other thread. Choose federer if you like. Both brilliant, both gentlemen. McEnroe was a dirty SOB, Lendl was the same. Lendl was despised by everybody despite his undeniable talent. McEnroe got onto everybody's nerves but never was quite as hated as Lendl. If you can understand why (and no, it wasn't because one was Czech and the other was American) then you will understand why few people outside Uk really respects Lewis, despite his enormous talent.(I am even willing to admit that he is the most brilliant driver on the track nowadays, even if has just the tiniest of margins above Alonso)

Yeah, I see your point I think. But maybe Hamilton's personality is so directly linked to his driving approach it's the explanation for his success. Better to be a successful b#####d than an unsuccessful fool. Will Lewis be so successful we can ignore/forgive/forget his not so nice personality/driving traits (as with Senna and Schumacher)? That is a question only time will answer. Guys which are uber successful and uber nice in all apsects are oh so rare, which is why I respect a Fangio and a Clark more than a Senna and a Schumacher from a "human" perspective. As for who I'd rather watch driving, well it's not so easy.

Still though, I think it's hard to quantify just how much the various different countries news sources are biased and trash talk Hamilton or any other driver, and how much that influences our perceptions of each guy (I guess it's at least fair to admit that Lewis opens himself up to being hated more than any other driver, even if I don't think it's really fair/justified).

NOTA BENE: Before any of the less gifted members will reply with some single line derisive comment. Read this carefully, and at least try to respect the effort taken to be as objective as possible within the limits of my own admitted bias (something many people doesn't admit) THEN you might reply and I will try to understand your point of view and make appropiate comments. Otherwise, you will be told to STFU even if that gets me a warning or a banning. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Baldy.

Edited by The Professor

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Hamilton laments playing hare to Button’s tortoise

His cut-and-thrust charges through the field have provided Formula One fans with great entertainment this season, but Lewis Hamilton has conceded that McLaren team mate Jenson Button’s more measured approach has produced better results.

Button heads the title standings after his second win from four outings with his new team in Sunday’s Chinese Grand Prix. And while the reigning champion controlled the race from the front, biding his time on tyre decisions and making just two stops in changeable conditions, Hamilton was into the pits four times en route to a hard-won second place.

"I feel I’ve had great races, but he (Button) has taken the right decisions and taken the easier route," Hamilton, champion with McLaren in 2008, told reporters before heading from China to South Africa for sponsor commitments.

Hamilton, who was widely tipped to outshine Button this season, lies fourth in the drivers’ table with 49 points to his compatriot’s 60. He made an excellent start to the year with a podium in Bahrain, but was then forced to watch Button calmly take McLaren’s first 2010 win after employing superior strategy in Australia.

"I have had the harder route and got good results but hopefully soon I will take the easier route," added Hamilton, who is no stranger to partnering world champions, having spent a tumultuous debut season alongside Fernando Alonso at McLaren in 2007.

Hamilton’s and Button’s respective 2010 performances have already got the media drawing comparisons with one of McLaren’s legendary driver line-ups of the past, that of Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna, whose rivalry famously ended with them clashing both on and off track.

Button is a huge admirer of Prost, whose smooth driving style and highly tactical race craft earned him four world titles and the nickname ‘The Professor’. Among Hamilton’s heroes is Senna, the late Brazilian whose awesome pace and win-at-all-costs approach attracted three drivers’ crowns and millions of fans around the world.

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I wonder what that guy would have said if Button or Lewis had been punished....he would have said something just the opposite..well, he gets paid to talk...sometimes even rubish counts...

You misunderstood the article or whoever was quoting the article made it unclear. Here is the original: http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8631369.stm As you can see from my post above I agree with a lot of what Brundle says in the article.

To clarify, Brundle wasn't referring to the pass in the entrance rather the side by side in the pitlane.

Relevant parts:

"

After the brutal and sometimes unfathomable penalties of the past few years we now seem to have swung the completely other way. I don't believe McLaren were guilty of an unsafe release when Hamilton nearly clouted the side of Vettel's car.

The lollipop man cannot watch everybody else's pit stop and second guess how much wheelspin his man will get on wet concrete.

But the subsequent driver behaviour down the pit lane was positively dangerous. Vettel shoved Hamilton towards the wheel guns and mechanics, albeit long after Hamilton should have yielded. They both received a reprimand, but what does that mean? How long does a reprimand last and how many are you allowed to collect before a real penalty?

They are lucky I wasn't the resident driver steward for the weekend because I would have strongly recommended dropping them both some penalty places on the grid for the next race in Barcelona. The decision taken has set a very dangerous precedent.

I'm more relaxed about side-by-side action into the pit lane entry, where no person or equipment is in the road. It has been interpreted before that this is against the rules.

On that subject, Alonso passed Massa with a cunning move into the pit lane. How did Ferrari recognise that so quickly and swap Massa's tyres, which were already in the pit-stop area, for Alonso's so they could be fitted first?

Finally, I would also have recommended at least a flaky reprimand if not a drive-through penalty when Button unreasonably slowed the pack for a safety car restart. It was a clear breach of the rules unless he could demonstrate that the safety car had been unreasonably slow entering the pit lane.

I wouldn't have been a popular steward with my former McLaren team but that job is not a popularity contest. Ask any referee."

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The second SC came as result of the dedris left by Alguersaury in the pit entrance when he lost his front wings, there was no other way to have safely cleaned that out, maybe closing the pits would have been another way but I think they took the right decision with the safety car.

There was also debris on the track from when he'd hit Chandhok though.

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There was also debris on the track from when he'd hit Chandhok though.

That's another reason to bring the SC, it wasn't an unnecesary call after all.

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Yes, that's why I'm DEFENDING the call to deploy the SC.

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You misunderstood the article or whoever was quoting the article made it unclear. Here is the original: http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8631369.stm As you can see from my post above I agree with a lot of what Brundle says in the article.

To clarify, Brundle wasn't referring to the pass in the entrance rather the side by side in the pitlane.

Relevant parts:

"

After the brutal and sometimes unfathomable penalties of the past few years we now seem to have swung the completely other way. I don't believe McLaren were guilty of an unsafe release when Hamilton nearly clouted the side of Vettel's car.

The lollipop man cannot watch everybody else's pit stop and second guess how much wheelspin his man will get on wet concrete.

But the subsequent driver behaviour down the pit lane was positively dangerous. Vettel shoved Hamilton towards the wheel guns and mechanics, albeit long after Hamilton should have yielded. They both received a reprimand, but what does that mean? How long does a reprimand last and how many are you allowed to collect before a real penalty?

They are lucky I wasn't the resident driver steward for the weekend because I would have strongly recommended dropping them both some penalty places on the grid for the next race in Barcelona. The decision taken has set a very dangerous precedent.

I'm more relaxed about side-by-side action into the pit lane entry, where no person or equipment is in the road.[/b] It has been interpreted before that this is against the rules.

On that subject, Alonso passed Massa with a cunning move into the pit lane. How did Ferrari recognise that so quickly and swap Massa's tyres, which were already in the pit-stop area, for Alonso's so they could be fitted first?

Finally, I would also have recommended at least a flaky reprimand if not a drive-through penalty when Button unreasonably slowed the pack for a safety car restart. It was a clear breach of the rules unless he could demonstrate that the safety car had been unreasonably slow entering the pit lane.

I wouldn't have been a popular steward with my former McLaren team but that job is not a popularity contest. Ask any referee."

Red: Of course it is against the rules, I've been saying that this is same as cutting a chicane.

Blue:That's a good question maybe Ferrari planned all this before after watching LH move but what think is that Alonso called on the radio to let them know he was coming first, I don't know if that would have given them the time to react or not but I don't have any other explanation.

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You misunderstood the article or whoever was quoting the article made it unclear. Here is the original: http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8631369.stm As you can see from my post above I agree with a lot of what Brundle says in the article.

To clarify, Brundle wasn't referring to the pass in the entrance rather the side by side in the pitlane.

Relevant parts:

"

After the brutal and sometimes unfathomable penalties of the past few years we now seem to have swung the completely other way. I don't believe McLaren were guilty of an unsafe release when Hamilton nearly clouted the side of Vettel's car.

The lollipop man cannot watch everybody else's pit stop and second guess how much wheelspin his man will get on wet concrete.

But the subsequent driver behaviour down the pit lane was positively dangerous. Vettel shoved Hamilton towards the wheel guns and mechanics, albeit long after Hamilton should have yielded. They both received a reprimand, but what does that mean? How long does a reprimand last and how many are you allowed to collect before a real penalty?

They are lucky I wasn't the resident driver steward for the weekend because I would have strongly recommended dropping them both some penalty places on the grid for the next race in Barcelona. The decision taken has set a very dangerous precedent.

I'm more relaxed about side-by-side action into the pit lane entry, where no person or equipment is in the road. It has been interpreted before that this is against the rules.

On that subject, Alonso passed Massa with a cunning move into the pit lane. How did Ferrari recognise that so quickly and swap Massa's tyres, which were already in the pit-stop area, for Alonso's so they could be fitted first?

Finally, I would also have recommended at least a flaky reprimand if not a drive-through penalty when Button unreasonably slowed the pack for a safety car restart. It was a clear breach of the rules unless he could demonstrate that the safety car had been unreasonably slow entering the pit lane.

I wouldn't have been a popular steward with my former McLaren team but that job is not a popularity contest. Ask any referee."

Thanks George....I mistook as usual...:D

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Red: Of course it is against the rules, I've been saying that this is same as cutting a chicane.

Blue:That's a good question maybe Ferrari planned all this before after watching LH move but what think is that Alonso called on the radio to let them know he was coming first, I don't know if that would have given them the time to react or not but I don't have any other explanation.

Both Alonso and Massa radioed the pits telling them that Nando was coming in first.

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Both Alonso and Massa radioed the pits telling them that Nando was coming in first.

In that case that's explains it all, they can do the change in a couple of seconds but I would like to know why Brundle is wondering about that? the pass was at the entrance of the pits a couple of meters before the slow down line, the lane was wet and that means it would take any car several seconds to get to the box, more than enough time to react to this.

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So your point is that Lewis is a much more controversial driver who gets involved in more incidents and gets away with them more often? And that is why the other drivers/lots of other people don't like him? Well yeah, I agree

- Lewis' driving pushes the rules to the limits. So the other drivers dislike him not just because Lewis is clearly such a good driver, but from other stuff too: like getting involved in various incidents (e.g. weaving, passing Vettel in the pitlane entrance etc etc), and probably also because he got into a good car so quickly, and maybe his personality sucks, too. Either way, I don't really care what other people think of Lewis.

Hamilton is a controversial driver, but he provides so much of the spectacle that for me, as a viewer, I like him as a driver. If I was a GP driver, I'd probably hate him for all those reasons above. I read something today, Hamilton has made 32 overtaking manoeuvres this season already, Button has made 7. That's essentially why I like Lewis more than Button, even though I still respect Button's other skills which essentially come down to outsmarting Lewis rather than outdriving him. I guess it's odd that I prefer the Hamilton approach rather than Button's because the latter is much more my style of doing things. I suppose it all comes down to taste. I thought the pitlane entry passes were brilliant and opportunistic. A competitive person finding an opportunity which is there for everyone, but only the best can exploit it. That to me is a good definition of sport, but again, is a matter of taste.

Personally I don't think the supposed "unsafe release" was all that unsafe, I think it's a hard thing to judge when the two cars pit boxes are so close together, and it's virtually impossible to account for how much wheelspin each car will get in those conditions so it's a grey area unlike the jump start rule which is clear cut. Btw we'll have to disagree on Alonso's jump start being imperceptible, it certainly was very difficult to call from the television angle pointing down the straight (I would have believed that Alonso made a great start and the RB's a poor one), but the lights guy [Charlie?] spotted it immediately and so did Brundle (who importantly was watching from out of the window, not the TV).

Anyway, back to the unsafe release, that would be Mclaren's responsibility and not something I would put squarely on Lewis. Though I do think that Lewis probably should have ceded position to Vettel, not from a rules or safety perspective, but from a driving one. There is nothing in the rules (I think) about driving in that part of the pitlane, i.e. two cars alongside each other. But from a driving perspective the pitlane exit is only big enough for one so Lewis should have just backed off earlier because Vettel was already there so he has the "right of way" I guess. What Vettel did though was unnecessary, he gained no advantage from pushing Lewis over to the "occupied" part of the pitlane. That was bad from Vettel because it was unnecessary (Lewis had no chance of overtaking him whilst on the pitlane speed limiter) and potentially dangerous if there had been people there. Okay, danger is relative, but it was certainly a reckless and worthless act on Seb's part (no doubt his judgement failed him because he was fuming from Hammy's pass in the pitlane entrance).

I'd suggest that if Hamilton and Seb had been in the opposite positions, and Hammy had pushed Seb over to the "staffed" area of the pitlane, then there might be quite a lot more being written about that. But that obviously goes back to your point about being involved in lots of incidents, it clearly colours some peoples perceptions of each individual incident, when really each one should be looked at in isolation.

Obviously the stewards can be too lenient, was that the case in this GP? Yes, probably. Button should have been reprimanded (I think), Vettel probably should have got more than a reprimand for his pitlane antics (although perhaps lack of past transgressions was a factor in both cases?), and Hamilton should have been penalised for his late pitlane entry (which I can't understand why there is no penalty but refuse to accept the "FIA favour Hamilton" 'argument'.)

I too think it's possible to have a compromise between the draconian penalties of previous years and the opposite end of the scale which the stewards were fairly close to in this GP. Then again, read the posts on this forum Andres and you can quickly see the problems with giving out penalties and the different interpretations (obviously there are issues of bias but I doubt the stewards are bias free, they are people after all). Obviously if I was deciding most of the decisions would be consistent and reasonable but sadly I'm not :whistling:

Football is not my area but I know what you mean. I agree, it doesn't make sense that you can get limitless reprimands in F1 (as far as I know) without automatically getting some kind of penalty. That is something which should certainly be introduced and would perhaps make things seem "fairer" for everyone. A 3 strikes rule would do it, which was wiped clean at the end of the season.

Yeah, I see your point I think. But maybe Hamilton's personality is so directly linked to his driving approach it's the explanation for his success. Better to be a successful b#####d than an unsuccessful fool. Will Lewis be so successful we can ignore/forgive/forget his not so nice personality/driving traits (as with Senna and Schumacher)? That is a question only time will answer. Guys which are uber successful and uber nice in all apsects are oh so rare, which is why I respect a Fangio and a Clark more than a Senna and a Schumacher from a "human" perspective. As for who I'd rather watch driving, well it's not so easy.

Still though, I think it's hard to quantify just how much the various different countries news sources are biased and trash talk Hamilton or any other driver, and how much that influences our perceptions of each guy (I guess it's at least fair to admit that Lewis opens himself up to being hated more than any other driver, even if I don't think it's really fair/justified).

Baldy.

STFU (told you) :P

Just kidding! Now, seriously: STFU.

Ok, now this time seriously, I mean it: STFU. We agree on most of it and the parts we disagree on are minor points or matter of taste. I am glad that you can see why Leiws is frowned upon even if you don't share it, just like I see wy people dislikes Alonso, even when I don't share it. You have just risen on my forum members' personal ratings system to "almost as smart as a small invertebrate", which is great, considering that no one around here regards you as highly as I do. :D

Was a good debate with you, except when you pushed me off at the WC's entrance. That was off limits, not to mention forcing me to pee side by side with you.

As usual, no need to thank me! :D

EDIT: Yeah, I know there are too many typos. Sorry, this new keyboard sucks and I don' feel like correcting them. So...STFU

Edited by Quiet One

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What is STFU?

STFU is "shut the front-door up." Andrés was feeling a bit of a draft so he asked George to close the door for him.

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STFU is "shut the front-door up." Andrés was feeling a bit of a draft so he asked George to close the door for him.

:eusa_think: That's not it but thanks now I have an idea :P

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Hamilton laments playing hare to Button’s tortoise

His cut-and-thrust charges through the field have provided Formula One fans with great entertainment this season, but Lewis Hamilton has conceded that McLaren team mate Jenson Button’s more measured approach has produced better results.

Button heads the title standings after his second win from four outings with his new team in Sunday’s Chinese Grand Prix. And while the reigning champion controlled the race from the front, biding his time on tyre decisions and making just two stops in changeable conditions, Hamilton was into the pits four times en route to a hard-won second place.

"I feel I’ve had great races, but he (Button) has taken the right decisions and taken the easier route," Hamilton, champion with McLaren in 2008, told reporters before heading from China to South Africa for sponsor commitments.

Hamilton, who was widely tipped to outshine Button this season, lies fourth in the drivers’ table with 49 points to his compatriot’s 60. He made an excellent start to the year with a podium in Bahrain, but was then forced to watch Button calmly take McLaren’s first 2010 win after employing superior strategy in Australia.

"I have had the harder route and got good results but hopefully soon I will take the easier route," added Hamilton, who is no stranger to partnering world champions, having spent a tumultuous debut season alongside Fernando Alonso at McLaren in 2007.

Hamilton’s and Button’s respective 2010 performances have already got the media drawing comparisons with one of McLaren’s legendary driver line-ups of the past, that of Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna, whose rivalry famously ended with them clashing both on and off track.

Button is a huge admirer of Prost, whose smooth driving style and highly tactical race craft earned him four world titles and the nickname ‘The Professor’. Among Hamilton’s heroes is Senna, the late Brazilian whose awesome pace and win-at-all-costs approach attracted three drivers’ crowns and millions of fans around the world.

This is a good bit. The part in bold is especially good. Funny that I liked Prost far more than Senna when the two were battling it out, but I like Lewis far more than Button. Go figure.

In the middle of all this bickering over what driver broke what rule and whose p ussy got all out of shape on-track, perhaps it's well to consider that the Chinese GP was frickin' fantastic! C'mon people, pick a driver and you can probably point to at least one outstanding moment for him. Lewis was orgasmic to watch; carving the field up like a Thanksgiving turkey. Button was sublime in his measured, determined control of the race. Alonso was fighting like a naked man against an angry bull and Vittantonio was....well, almost every driver did well.

Put your rule-breaking concerns in the bin and remember that the racing was good.

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This is a good bit. The part in bold is especially good. Funny that I liked Prost far more than Senna when the two were battling it out, but I like Lewis far more than Button. Go figure.

In the middle of all this bickering over what driver broke what rule and whose p ussy got all out of shape on-track, perhaps it's well to consider that the Chinese GP was frickin' fantastic! C'mon people, pick a driver and you can probably point to at least one outstanding moment for him. Lewis was orgasmic to watch; carving the field up like a Thanksgiving turkey. Button was sublime in his measured, determined control of the race. Alonso was fighting like a naked man against an angry bull and Vittantonio was....well, almost every driver did well.

Put your rule-breaking concerns in the bin and remember that the racing was good.

:thbup:

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STFU (told you) :P

Just kidding! Now, seriously: STFU.

Ok, now this time seriously, I mean it: STFU. We agree on most of it and the parts we disagree on are minor points or matter of taste. I am glad that you can see why Leiws is frowned upon even if you don't share it, just like I see wy people dislikes Alonso, even when I don't share it. You have just risen on my forum members' personal ratings system to "almost as smart as a small invertebrate", which is great, considering that no one around here regards you as highly as I do. :D

Was a good debate with you, except when you pushed me off at the WC's entrance. That was off limits, not to mention forcing me to pee side by side with you.

As usual, no need to thank me! :D

EDIT: Yeah, I know there are too many typos. Sorry, this new keyboard sucks and I don' feel like correcting them. So...STFU

:lol:

Yep, we agree on the essentials! Sorry I forced you to pee by me, at least I got a good look at your F-duct though.

I also agree with Puma about the quality of racing. Here are the numbers (for DOF) regarding overtaking (if you didn't enjoy the race, good luck):

Credit to Autosport (paid content).

Note: I couldn't copy/paste the table so I used a screenshot.

Edited by The Professor

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This is a good bit. The part in bold is especially good. Funny that I liked Prost far more than Senna when the two were battling it out, but I like Lewis far more than Button. Go figure.

In the middle of all this bickering over what driver broke what rule and whose p ussy got all out of shape on-track, perhaps it's well to consider that the Chinese GP was frickin' fantastic! C'mon people, pick a driver and you can probably point to at least one outstanding moment for him. Lewis was orgasmic to watch; carving the field up like a Thanksgiving turkey. Button was sublime in his measured, determined control of the race. Alonso was fighting like a naked man against an angry bull and Vittantonio was....well, almost every driver did well.

Put your rule-breaking concerns in the bin and remember that the racing was good.

You forgot to mention Di Grassi. Vitantonio is the past. Di Grassi is the future! I've read posts against LH, FA, JB, FM, MSC...heck, even against Kovy, Trulli, Chandhok and Senna this year. But nobody, not even one of us had anything to say against Di Grassi. Not even a single line mentioning him under a bad light. Or good light. Or any light at all. That is because he is so flawless nobody has anything against him. He is so nice nobody can say anything negative against him. In 4 races, he already arrived 14th at Malaysia, the best result from a rookie on his debut year, among those whose initials where LDG. The other three races he decided to retire comfortably and learn from a vantage position, instead of losing precious time in the middle of the track, the true mark of a guy with ambition. Way to go, Lucas!

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Both Alonso and Massa radioed the pits telling them that Nando was coming in first.

What a moment!!!

I'd love to hear that.

Alonso: my tyres first, repeat, my tyres first. Jiiiiiiiiiipy!!!

Stella: Ok, I don't want to know.

Massa: Rob, stay cool. Problem, the b#####d first. Repeat, the b#####d...

Smedley: What? The white visor again?

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