Schumikonen

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Nice job Tommy but everytime you talk about anything connected with Alonso you fail. rolleyes.gif

Yeah you are right but that is specially true when I say that he is a very good driver :naughty: and I guess that will continue being true if say that he did a very good job being the best of the rest because so far Red Bull have taken all poles this season.

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Yeah you are right but that is specially true when I say that he is a very good driver :naughty: and I guess that will continue being true if say that he did a very good job being the best of the rest because so far Red Bull have taken all poles this season.

:lol: Excellent.

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I said Vettel would be WDC in 2010 and no one listened. :(

Perhaps because half of the F1 world was saying the same? :P

Seriously, I still thinks he needs to improve on some other areas to become a "best package out there" kind of driver, but is the closest one around after Schumi and Nando. He is blindingly fast, he can be also very consistent and seems to have usually rather good strategies (I don't know if that is his merit or his team crew). I never like to bet on everybody's favorite, but this time it seems like it's the right one.

You know why Massa isn't hungry? He has nothing to prove because Ferrari have been talking him up in the press as a "driver of the future" (despite him not being young or inexperienced) and how they'd love to continue working with him. They've made him comfortable so he'll stop performing so they don't seem heartless when they kick him out for Kubica in 2011!!!! Alternatively, missing half a year in 2009 didn't help, the team's built around Alonso now, and Massa's realized now matter how many times he could beat Kimi (he outscored him over their time together), Ferrari will never back him as number one, so he might not be all there emotionally. He has to be distracted by his future; if Ferrari want him, he'll want to stay, but there has to be a little part of him pondering what it would be like to be number one at a slightly lesser team (i.e. Renault or Williams, who could improve with Volkswagen engines rumored for 2011).

I disagree. The car couldn't possibly be built around nando. nando wasn't there last year. They might have built it with Nando in their minds, but that can't compensate for the raw driving data they didn't have. True, the 2009 accident didn't help and maybe it's the most influential factor? He was kind of a loudmouth during off season about Nando having to earn his place in ferrari and that he would not be pushed aside and this and that...and now...nothing. If I was him I would stay at ferrari and fight. He is no Barrichello at Ferrari, so no #2 complaints. The guy has been given more than a fair share of support, and nando is not being the 2007 version. If he can't fight this battle, then he does not deserve to be even HRT's #1 driver.

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That's because Hamilton is a spoiled pampered brat who throws tantrums when things don't go his way. He must have been p**sed that he dosn't have Ron Dennis' skirt to run and hide under when other boys don't want to play HIS way. I wonder if he sniffled in the driver's meeting on Friday.

The only thing he's got going his way is a terrific talent to drive (and that's a lot, I admit)...

That's what I like in a driver but he is not the only one who does that and that is one of the things I like from Kimi he just do the best he can and if it doesn't work he does not blame anybody, he just concentrate in drinking to forget :naughty: and waiting for the next time to try to do a better job but yu are right about Hamilton the guy has a terrific talent to drive and tomorrow with the rain if it finaly show up like is being predicted I don't expect nothing less than another great drive from him, he already have two great drives in just three race and I am getting used to it. :P

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Perhaps because half of the F1 world was saying the same? :P

Seriously, I still thinks he needs to improve on some other areas to become a "best package out there" kind of driver, but is the closest one around after Schumi and Nando. He is blindingly fast, he can be also very consistent and seems to have usually rather good strategies (I don't know if that is his merit or his team crew). I never like to bet on everybody's favorite, but this time it seems like it's the right one.

I don't know what you mean the whole package but if the guy is not sweeping the WDC it's just because of the reliability problems and there is nothing to blame him for, the guy can easily defeat the competition this season and he was doing the same last season, I think he has everything a team wants in a driver, I mean if the has a good equipment he can get the job done.

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I disagree. The car couldn't possibly be built around nando. nando wasn't there last year. They might have built it with Nando in their minds, but that can't compensate for the raw driving data they didn't have. True, the 2009 accident didn't help and maybe it's the most influential factor? He was kind of a loudmouth during off season about Nando having to earn his place in ferrari and that he would not be pushed aside and this and that...and now...nothing. If I was him I would stay at ferrari and fight. He is no Barrichello at Ferrari, so no #2 complaints. The guy has been given more than a fair share of support, and nando is not being the 2007 version. If he can't fight this battle, then he does not deserve to be even HRT's #1 driver.

Erick wasn't talking about the car he said the team is built around Alonso and that's the truth, the team want to see Alonso taking the lead role and taking the team foward, Ferrari does not see Massa as a lead driver they see him as a very good(maybe the best) number two driver and they want him to do just that, to be the best number two driver while Alonso do his job as number one.

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And what is wrong with Massa? Seriously. I never thought he would really look better than Nando at Ferrari, but he has always at least been very quick. He just look so discoloured makes him look like Ferrari's #3 driver! I expected him giving Nando a better fight but so far it was never a quesion of how much he won over Nando, but more over how many points Nando lost by himself. Felipinho looks as a mere cab driver so far. Maybe Kimi took Felipinho's mojo away when he left?

You can not blame Massa for that when Nando said after one of those races something like this: "Had another driver been in front of me I would have tried to pass him" so he wanted to staty behind Massa, that doesn't speak very good about a driver, how could I stay behind a driver that I can pass? it is eather team order that we all know are banned or the guy is just not interested in getting more point, I personally believe that he could make the pass and that's the way to divert the attention to another area, so how could you balme Massa for keeping him behind, that's his job as a driver to keep everybody behind.

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I don't know what you mean the whole package but if the guy is not sweeping the WDC it's just because of the reliability problems and there is nothing to blame him for, the guy can easily defeat the competition this season and he was doing the same last season, I think he has everything a team wants in a driver, I mean if the has a good equipment he can get the job done.

The whole package means a good and balanced mix of raw speed, consistency, strategic mind, spatial awareness, mechanical empathy (yeah, there is such thing), team leadership...the keyword here being adaptability, making your own best conditions despite other factors working against you. That is why I rat some drivers in a league of their own (you know who they are), despite some others ocasionally beating them or even winning WDCs (Button, Kimi, Massa). Button drives so tidy the car comes back to the pits after a race in better conditions than when it started, but if the car doesn't suits him, he is lost. He is showing promising improvements this year (belated kudos for his Macca move, I didn't think he would pull this through this well). Kimi was hyper fast, but the guy had the tiniest brain in the whole grid. If something couldn't be solved by raw speed, all he knew was how to get to the nearest refrigerator to grab an ice cream. Look at Massa! He was this close of grabbing a WDC. He has spent most of his F1 life racing along with the best. He is definitely a fast qualifier a la Trulli and can keep up a consistent race speed...yet...Lewis, Schumi, Nando, on the other hand can make the best of varying conditions. Lewis still needs to improve his car setup skills (loved the fact that Macca was totally clueless this weekend despite having a seemingly strong package?), like Button, he is showing some clear improvement signs, thuogh (IMHO he is still better than JB, but that gap is closing up fast). Vettel seems to have increasingly good skills in all aspects...that's scary!

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You know why Massa isn't hungry? He has nothing to prove because Ferrari have been talking him up in the press as a "driver of the future" (despite him not being young or inexperienced) and how they'd love to continue working with him. They've made him comfortable so he'll stop performing so they don't seem heartless when they kick him out for Kubica in 2011!!!! Alternatively, missing half a year in 2009 didn't help, the team's built around Alonso now, and Massa's realized now matter how many times he could beat Kimi (he outscored him over their time together), Ferrari will never back him as number one, so he might not be all there emotionally. He has to be distracted by his future; if Ferrari want him, he'll want to stay, but there has to be a little part of him pondering what it would be like to be number one at a slightly lesser team (i.e. Renault or Williams, who could improve with Volkswagen engines rumored for 2011).

I think so too about Massa, he was doing a better job until the news about his future came out but on the other hand he was doing a pretty good job in the practice he only underperformed in qualy, tomorrow could be complete different story but I wouldn't expect much from him as tomorrow is going to rain, that si a good news to Ferrri as their engines won't overheat but let's wait and see what happen.

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Erick wasn't talking about the car he said the team is built around Alonso and that's the truth, the team want to see Alonso taking the lead role and taking the team foward, Ferrari does not see Massa as a lead driver they see him as a very good(maybe the best) number two driver and they want him to do just that, to be the best number two driver while Alonso do his job as number one.

Point taken. I yet don't think the team was bult around nando. The team's sympathies for Massa were evident during off season and besides Luca he seemed hardly regarded as favorite inside Ferrari. Yet it took him very little to have the team saying things like "he gave us more feedback in a single day than Kimi in the whole year". Those things you can't just buy with Santander's money :P The team wasn't built around nando. Nando built the team around himself. A lesson on "the whole package" at work. Mostly, when we know how bad he failed in 2007. The guy leans from his mistakes. And that's lesson number two.

You can not blame Massa for that when Nando said after one of those races something like this: "Had another driver been in front of me I would have tried to pass him" so he wanted to staty behind Massa, that doesn't speak very good about a driver, how could I stay behind a driver that I can pass? it is eather team order that we all know are banned or the guy is just not interested in getting more point, I personally believe that he could make the pass and that's the way to divert the attention to another area, so how could you balme Massa for keeping him behind, that's his job as a driver to keep everybody behind.

Your anti alonso bias always makes you misunderstand everything I write.I said Massa's edge over Nando in points was more because of Nando's wrongdoings than Massa's good deeds. I am not blaming Massa, I am saying that, in an example like the one you put forward (assuming that is the correct interpretation, which I disagree with) it is still down to Nando's poor choice of staying behnd Massa, more than Massa being actually any better than Nando. It's not Massa's fault.

As for the fact itself, trying to overtake a driver with a car similar to yours which is not letting you overtake is always dangerous. He had either the choice of staying behind Massa, earning sme points and wait for a better opportunity or try to overtake Massa (something always dangerous: ask Lewis for details on how Massa loves to push drivers aside or even contact them when everything is lost). In the second case, he risked either losing his own car and whatever points he had, or losing both cars and making daddy Luca very angry. In a one race mind that is the way to go. In a championship plan, the wisest move was to let Massa stay in front. He doesn't look like much of a threat, anyways. Things seem to be proving the second option as the best one, so, again, no merit for Massa.

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The whole package means a good and balanced mix of raw speed, consistency, strategic mind, spatial awareness, mechanical empathy (yeah, there is such thing), team leadership...the keyword here being adaptability, making your own best conditions despite other factors working against you. That is why I rat some drivers in a league of their own (you know who they are), despite some others ocasionally beating them or even winning WDCs (Button, Kimi, Massa). Button drives so tidy the car comes back to the pits after a race in better conditions than when it started, but if the car doesn't suits him, he is lost. He is showing promising improvements this year (belated kudos for his Macca move, I didn't think he would pull this through this well). Kimi was hyper fast, but the guy had the tiniest brain in the whole grid. If something couldn't be solved by raw speed, all he knew was how to get to the nearest refrigerator to grab an ice cream. Look at Massa! He was this close of grabbing a WDC. He has spent most of his F1 life racing along with the best. He is definitely a fast qualifier a la Trulli and can keep up a consistent race speed...yet...Lewis, Schumi, Nando, on the other hand can make the best of varying conditions. Lewis still needs to improve his car setup skills (loved the fact that Macca was totally clueless this weekend despite having a seemingly strong package?), like Button, he is showing some clear improvement signs, thuogh (IMHO he is still better than JB, but that gap is closing up fast). Vettel seems to have increasingly good skills in all aspects...that's scary!

That's too complex for me right now so I will limit myself to tell you that Mclaren race pace will be a lot better than waht you saw in qualy, I guess they ran out of fresh tires or something like that but they both will improve they saturday position in tomorrow race adn I would be surprise to see both of them finishing ahead of Alonso but there is the rain again so everything is possible.

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Point taken. I yet don't think the team was bult around nando. The team's sympathies for Massa were evident during off season and besides Luca he seemed hardly regarded as favorite inside Ferrari. Yet it took him very little to have the team saying things like "he gave us more feedback in a single day than Kimi in the whole year". Those things you can't just buy with Santander's money :P The team wasn't built around nando. Nando built the team around himself. A lesson on "the whole package" at work. Mostly, when we know how bad he failed in 2007. The guy leans from his mistakes. And that's lesson number two.

Your anti alonso bias always makes you misunderstand everything I write.I said Massa's edge over Nando in points was more because of Nando's wrongdoings than Massa's good deeds. I am not blaming Massa, I am saying that, in an example like the one you put forward (assuming that is the correct interpretation, which I disagree with) it is still down to Nando's poor choice of staying behnd Massa, more than Massa being actually any better than Nando. It's not Massa's fault.

As for the fact itself, trying to overtake a driver with a car similar to yours which is not letting you overtake is always dangerous. He had either the choice of staying behind Massa, earning sme points and wait for a better opportunity or try to overtake Massa (something always dangerous: ask Lewis for details on how Massa loves to push drivers aside or even contact them when everything is lost). In the second case, he risked either losing his own car and whatever points he had, or losing both cars and making daddy Luca very angry. In a one race mind that is the way to go. In a championship plan, the wisest move was to let Massa stay in front. He doesn't look like much of a threat, anyways. Things seem to be proving the second option as the best one, so, again, no merit for Massa.

Sorry, my bad I reread your post and I noticed what you mean, right now I am working out and very sleepy adn coming to the computer between sets, my kids are pressuring me to finsh and take tehm to the playground so don't be surpirse if I screw up again during the day at some point. :P

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Your anti alonso bias always makes you misunderstand everything I write.I said Massa's edge over Nando in points was more because of Nando's wrongdoings than Massa's good deeds. I am not blaming Massa, I am saying that, in an example like the one you put forward (assuming that is the correct interpretation, which I disagree with) it is still down to Nando's poor choice of staying behnd Massa, more than Massa being actually any better than Nando. It's not Massa's fault.

As for the fact itself, trying to overtake a driver with a car similar to yours which is not letting you overtake is always dangerous. He had either the choice of staying behind Massa, earning sme points and wait for a better opportunity or try to overtake Massa (something always dangerous: ask Lewis for details on how Massa loves to push drivers aside or even contact them when everything is lost). In the second case, he risked either losing his own car and whatever points he had, or losing both cars and making daddy Luca very angry. In a one race mind that is the way to go. In a championship plan, the wisest move was to let Massa stay in front. He doesn't look like much of a threat, anyways. Things seem to be proving the second option as the best one, so, again, no merit for Massa.

I think Massa has a lot of merits, right now the future is not looking good to Alonso because of the new engines he have left we still don't know how this race it is going to end and Massa is still leading the WDC as of now, not many people were expecting this at this point in the season so let's see how he handle the rest of the season.

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That's too complex for me right now so I will limit myself to tell you that Mclaren race pace will be a lot better than waht you saw in qualy, I guess they ran out of fresh tires or something like that but they both will improve they saturday position in tomorrow race adn I would be surprise to see both of them finishing ahead of Alonso but there is the rain again so everything is possible.

I do agree with you about the Macca's. They still have a strong package and two great drivers so I won't be surprised if they beat nando this time. I was merely pointing that both lewis and Whitmarsh's comments were basically "we have no clue why we performed so bad" and that is never a good sign :lol:

Sorry, my bad I reread your post and I noticed what you mean, right now I am working out and very sleepy adn coming to the computer between sets, my kids are pressuring me to finsh and take tehm to the playground so don't be surpirse if I screw up again during the day at some point. :P

Bah, no excuses...you just hate Nando's guts, don't blame it on the kids nor on sleep deprivation :P

I think Massa has a lot of merits, right now the future is not looking good to Alonso because of the new engines he have left we still don't know how this race it is going to end and Massa is still leading the WDC as of now, not many people were expecting this at this point in the season so let's see how he handle the rest of the season.

I think Massa has lots of merits too, and despite being a bit of a loudmouth, he is a hard working and apparently quite a nice guy too. It is not because I love to see massa beaten that I am saying all this. It is because I am a little bit disappointed he is not being the one that actually made Kimi look very bad last year. He looks more like the 2008 Massa: a guy that almost snatches Lewis WDC, despite never looking like he was even remotely in the same league as Lewis. And, much like that time, Lewis had to fight until the last race against Massa mostly due to his own blunders or car issues than because of Massa putting that many convincing drivers, except when starting from pole (something easier to accomplish at the time thanks to a strong Ferrari package).

Massa is good, and still has rom for improvement. But this year seems to have taken a step back. Why? I don't know.

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Alternatively, missing half a year in 2009 didn't help, the team's built around Alonso now, and Massa's realized now matter how many times he could beat Kimi (he outscored him over their time together), Ferrari will never back him as number one, so he might not be all there emotionally. He has to be distracted by his future; if Ferrari want him, he'll want to stay, but there has to be a little part of him pondering what it would be like to be number one at a slightly lesser team (i.e. Renault or Williams, who could improve with Volkswagen engines rumored for 2011).

Ferrari backed him as number one in the past and they'll have no problem to do it again if he does a better job than his teammate whoever it is.

You can not blame Massa for that when Nando said after one of those races something like this: "Had another driver been in front of me I would have tried to pass him" so he wanted to staty behind Massa, that doesn't speak very good about a driver, how could I stay behind a driver that I can pass? it is eather team order that we all know are banned or the guy is just not interested in getting more point, I personally believe that he could make the pass and that's the way to divert the attention to another area, so how could you balme Massa for keeping him behind, that's his job as a driver to keep everybody behind.

They told Alonso serveral times to be gentle on the tyres (Ferrari code for do not push your teammate and drive conservatively). I know you want to believe Alonso is #1 driver already and the whole team is only working for him and telling Massa to fck off but the truth is quite different.

Intriguingly Domenicali also admitted that the drivers were not allowed to race in the ‘final stint.’“Not in the final stint, during the final stint we have let’s say an internal code of practice that unless there is an obvious situation, the [order] has to be respected. Otherwise you can attack, absolutely.”

It’s not clear when that call came into effect, given that strategies now call for a fewer stops. Indeed they both ran 49 laps from their single tyre stop to the flag…

http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/03/30/domenicali-every-corner-there-we-were-touching-wood/

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Ferrari backed him as number one in the past and they'll have no problem to do it again if he does a better job than his teammate whoever it is.

They told Alonso serveral times to be gentle on the tyres (Ferrari code for do not push your teammate and drive conservatively). I know you want to believe Alonso is #1 driver already and the whole team is only working for him and telling Massa to fck off but the truth is quite different.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/03/30/domenicali-every-corner-there-we-were-touching-wood/

So they are saying the have team orders in effect and that's illegal as far as I know, I must say that I support team order but if it is illegal shouldn't Ferrari driver be fighting each other on track adn trying to get the best positionthey possibly can?

They used the same code in Barhain to slow Massa down, I call that team order and everybody can see it but nobody is doing anuthing in this case they even say it out loud.

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So they are saying the have team orders in effect and that's illegal as far as I know, I must say that I support team order but if it is illegal shouldn't Ferrari driver be fighting each other on track adn trying to get the best positionthey possibly can?

They used the same code in Barhain to slow Massa down, I call that team order and everybody can see it but nobody is doing anuthing in this case they even say it out loud.

You may be right. I don't see it like team orders a la Austria 2002 but for sure that's some sort of team order. I don't like it, I think team orders should only be acceptable if the team is clearly getting a big benefit like Massa-Raikkonen swapping in Brazil 2007. I know it isn't legal but I don't think it is unfair, there would be absolutely no point on paying for two cars (drivers, engineers, etc.) if they can't control the outcome of the race to maximise the results for the team.

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SPEEDTV will show the race live beginning at 2:30 AM ET. The race will be re-aired at 2:00 PM ET on Sunday, and Tuesday at 12:30 PM ET.

I said Vettel would be WDC in 2010 and no one listened. :(

Posted 29 December 2009 - 06:20 AM

snapback.pnglewisthegreat2, on 26 December 2009 - 01:14 PM, said:

World Driving Championship

1. Sebastian Vettel

2. Lewis Hamilton

3. Fernando Alonso

4. Michael Schumacher

5. Felipe Massa...

World Constructors' Championship

1. Scuderia Ferrari

2. Red Bull Racing

3. McLaren-Mercedes

4. Mercedes Grand Prix...

********************************************************

Interesting take, Eric. As the 2009 season wound down it was obvious that all but one of the top teams would experience some significant change/changes in the off-season; the exception being Red Bull. With severe limitations in place for testing there has to be a good deal of weight placed on personnel continuity, and having the same drivers in place following a very successful year should mean a lot come March 2010. It's not beyond the pale to imagine young Mr. Vettel taking home the marbles next year.

P.

Please note, Puck-meister, my post from 12-29-09!

I know where you live; don't make me come over there! (Damn kids these days...)

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You may be right. I don't see it like team orders a la Austria 2002 but for sure that's some sort of team order. I don't like it, I think team orders should only be acceptable if the team is clearly getting a big benefit like Massa-Raikkonen swapping in Brazil 2007. I know it isn't legal but I don't think it is unfair, there would be absolutely no point on paying for two cars (drivers, engineers, etc.) if they can't control the outcome of the race to maximise the results for the team.

That's why I support team orders because a team should always work to get the best result for the team and drivers work for the teams, teams pay the drivers to do a job for them, my only complain is that right now it is illegal but they are still using them.

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1 Vettel 1:34.558

2 Webber 1:34.806 +248

3 Alonso 1:34.913 +355

4 Rosberg 1:34.923 +365

5 Button 1:34.979 +421

6 Hamilton 1:35.034 +476

7 Massa 1:35.180 +622

8 Kubica 1:35.364 +806

9 Schumacher 1:35.646 +1.088

10 Sutil 1:35.963 +1.405

I had a look at the actual lap times and there are roughly 2.5 tenths between 3rd and 7th. McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes are amazingly close. How can Red Bull be so amazingly ahead? I don't think Vettel can make such a difference but he's very fast no doubt. Either Mercedes and McLaren have improved a lot more than Ferrari or the track is much better for them. They all will have to find a few laps if they want to put up a fight against Red Bull in qualifying.

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That's why I support team orders because a team should always work to get the best result for the team and drivers work for the teams, teams pay the drivers to do a job for them, my only complain is that right now it is illegal but they are still using them.

I believe (I might be mistaken though) that the orders that were banned were those issued during the race. If the team has an internal "rule" by which whoever qualifies first/gets first to the first corner/can spell "eggplant", should keep his track position is not banned as it would be more of a gentleman's agreement or something. I don't think those are banned and in any case those are impossible to detect, not to mention that obviously every team has those kind of "rules". Not to metion that most #1 & #2 drivers rules are usually prety obvious, i.e.: Petrov would sound rather stupid right now if he expected to have the same or better support than Kubica has at Renauult, without that being actually unfair against him. In the case of Masa and Alonso is less clear as both have enough merits to be #1. But still Ferrari have some stern approach towards those kind of issues.

1 Vettel 1:34.558

2 Webber 1:34.806 +248

3 Alonso 1:34.913 +355

4 Rosberg 1:34.923 +365

5 Button 1:34.979 +421

6 Hamilton 1:35.034 +476

7 Massa 1:35.180 +622

8 Kubica 1:35.364 +806

9 Schumacher 1:35.646 +1.088

10 Sutil 1:35.963 +1.405

I had a look at the actual lap times and there are roughly 2.5 tenths between 3rd and 7th. McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes are amazingly close. How can Red Bull be so amazingly ahead? I don't think Vettel can make such a difference but he's very fast no doubt. Either Mercedes and McLaren have improved a lot more than Ferrari or the track is much better for them. They all will have to find a few laps if they want to put up a fight against Red Bull in qualifying.

He can, and not even his team knows how. The kid IS impressive. He could have been even more ahead as he put his tires on the grass at the final corner, for example. How he does it? Magic. Has been a while since we saw a driver perform these tricks. Even when Schumi/Lewis/Kimi pulled one of their ultra fast laps we all could see the effort they put, throwing the cars around the kerbs and such. This kid makes ultra fast laps DESPITE driving like that. Last time I saw somebody like that it was a certain Ayrton (yes, Seb is impressing me this much)

Now, don't take me wrong, he is no Ayrton (not yet, at least) but that was certainly one of the components of Ayrton's magic.

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Nando is outpacing Massa. He is driving like hell extracting all juice off the Fezza! Nico is simly driving very well and with a out of shape teammate shines! Vettel and Nando are the better drivers at the moment. Lewis is trying to go faster than his car and is making mistakes in the way. Webber is enjoying his last F1 season and the rest... simply is the rest.

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He can, and not even his team knows how. The kid IS impressive. He could have been even more ahead as he put his tires on the grass at the final corner, for example. How he does it? Magic. Has been a while since we saw a driver perform these tricks. Even when Schumi/Lewis/Kimi pulled one of their ultra fast laps we all could see the effort they put, throwing the cars around the kerbs and such. This kid makes ultra fast laps DESPITE driving like that. Last time I saw somebody like that it was a certain Ayrton (yes, Seb is impressing me this much)

Now, don't take me wrong, he is no Ayrton (not yet, at least) but that was certainly one of the components of Ayrton's magic.

I'd like to agree with you on that. I'd like to think there's such a driver that he can do something no other driver can but I don't think it is at all possible today. There are very fast drivers on the grid and I can hardly believe Vettel is so much faster than all of them. He himself said it was a fantastic lap which is what gave him such a gap against Webber, the car gave him a bigger gap against Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes. No magic, Red Bull is quite faster on a flying lap and Vettel knows how to squeeze every last drop of his machinery better than Webber. He's impressive already and World Champion material as we could see it last year but physics applies to everyone.

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I believe (I might be mistaken though) that the orders that were banned were those issued during the race. If the team has an internal "rule" by which whoever qualifies first/gets first to the first corner/can spell "eggplant", should keep his track position is not banned as it would be more of a gentleman's agreement or something. I don't think those are banned and in any case those are impossible to detect, not to mention that obviously every team has those kind of "rules". Not to metion that most #1 & #2 drivers rules are usually prety obvious, i.e.: Petrov would sound rather stupid right now if he expected to have the same or better support than Kubica has at Renauult, without that being actually unfair against him. In the case of Masa and Alonso is less clear as both have enough merits to be #1. But still Ferrari have some stern approach towards those kind of issues.

He can, and not even his team knows how. The kid IS impressive. He could have been even more ahead as he put his tires on the grass at the final corner, for example. How he does it? Magic. Has been a while since we saw a driver perform these tricks. Even when Schumi/Lewis/Kimi pulled one of their ultra fast laps we all could see the effort they put, throwing the cars around the kerbs and such. This kid makes ultra fast laps DESPITE driving like that. Last time I saw somebody like that it was a certain Ayrton (yes, Seb is impressing me this much)

Now, don't take me wrong, he is no Ayrton (not yet, at least) but that was certainly one of the components of Ayrton's magic.

The "magic" Red Bull suspension notwithstanding..... OK, can ANYONE explain to me how can a car be so low in qualy that it scrapes, yet it can receive a race load of fuel and NOT scrape in the race? Yup, must be that Vettel factor... or a trick suspension. I explain before only ONE possibility of how to rig it. I understand there are likely about 20 engineering solutions, NONE legal. nono1.gif

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The "magic" Red Bull suspension notwithstanding..... OK, can ANYONE explain to me how can a car be so low in qualy that it scrapes, yet it can receive a race load of fuel and NOT scrape in the race? Yup, must be that Vettel factor... or a trick suspension. I explain before only ONE possibility of how to rig it. I understand there are likely about 20 engineering solutions, NONE legal. nono1.gif

There is a common say in racing adn it goes like this: it is only illegal if you get caught.

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