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JHS

Tyres

What tyres for 2010?  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. Didn't I just ask that already?

    • Michelin (Except they don't work in America :P)
      2
    • Cooper (AVON for UK people)
      0
    • Pirelli (They have a cool name)
      3
    • Bring on a tyre war already!
      9


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So, as we know, Bridgestone will be pulling out of F1 at the end of this season, but who would you like to take their place?

Already, Michelin, Cooper Avon and Pirelli have announced interest to supply tyres for next season. Here's a fun breakdown:

Michelin

Good-recognisable brand, past F1 experience not so long ago.

Bad-they want F1 to addopt sportscar style 18" rims meaning teams would have to completely redesign their suspension for next season, adding extra cost. Not guaranteed to work in America either.*

Cooper

Good-cheaper than Michelin, have experience in F3, want to continue using standard size rims.

Bad-that last point effectively means we won't see a tyre war between these two.

Pirelli

Good-nice sounding name, have experience in.......erm.....something.

Bad-being Italian, they'll probably give some sort of advantage to the Italian teams.**

*-I joke with Michelin, that's all good and forgotten. But seriously, you need to make better tyres.

**-What, a supplier giving an advantage to another team based on nationality! That would never happen!

So vote away people.

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I voted Pirelli, but really I don't care. Tyres are black, round and boring. If there is still going to be a single supplier control tyre next year, then I don't care who supplies them. As long as we have something to go racing on.

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Cooper/Avon, I fear, are too small to supply F1. I had read if they join, they will use un-branded tires simply because it would cost too much for them to pay for the rights to put their logo on the tires. I don't think they're the right choice really.

Michelin and Pirelli? I say let them both in. Both have requested to go from 13" c*cks (lol peenice joke so phunnee) rims to 18" ones, so they can compete together pretty reasonably. I like Michelin's push for going green, too, though I know a lot of people don't care. Allowing competition will be best for the sport, above all. I'm not entirely unconvinced that Bridgestone might try to get back in if the FIA allow multiple suppliers.

I don't really know much about rims...would it be logical to allow both 13" and 18"? I realize they wouldn't, but if it wouldn't make a massive difference in competitiveness, they could allow it, so smaller teams could keep the 13" ones, which would allow Cooper/Avon to be involved, but on a smaller scale (i.e. just select teams) rather than as sole supplier, which they're just too small to handle.

I'm surprised one of the Korean tire companies (Kumho, Hankook, etc) have not expressed an interest. I'm thrilled that Goodyear haven't.

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I voted Pirelli, but really I don't care. Tyres are black, round and boring. If there is still going to be a single supplier control tyre next year, then I don't care who supplies them. As long as we have something to go racing on.

I agree with you, it doesn't matter who the supplier is, as long as the car have some tires to race with.

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Probably Bridgestone will stay but on favourable financial terms, and we might get Michelin/Pirelli or both coming in, and have a tyre war again.

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Cooper/Avon, I fear, are too small to supply F1. I had read if they join, they will use un-branded tires simply because it would cost too much for them to pay for the rights to put their logo on the tires. I don't think they're the right choice really.

Michelin and Pirelli?

I'm surprised one of the Korean tire companies (Kumho, Hankook, etc) have not expressed an interest. I'm thrilled that Goodyear haven't.

Cooper...yes they don't have experience, but can certianly buy it, rumour has it, Cooper plans to takeover Bridgestone's F1 guys...

Michelins are asking too much for small teams to afford....

Pirelli....they have already said 'va funkulo!'

Kumho and Hankook are happy to let them do the racing on streets and have enough asian communities in US having their Decals on their cars without even having to pay them....

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I'm not too keen of tire wars. Nowadays tires play such a big part in the car's performance that it leaves you with practically just two teams: teams using tire A and teams using tire B. Back in the early noughties, one major reason for Ferrari's dominance was the superiority of the Bridgestones over the Michelins. It meant that if you were stuck with Michelins, you had a huge disadvantage to start with and something unmodifiable unless you established a symbiotic relationship with the tire manufacturer. Something that didn't happened until Renault could at the same time develop a good car and become practically a Michelin associate, much like Ferrari did with Bridgestone. All the other teams were mere spectators, because no matter how hard their development teams worked, they still had the tire performance gap to fight against. With the current testing limitations, it means that you can actually develop the best car on the grid by far, yet get on the bad side of the tire war and waste a whole year (assuming your management will accept swicthing to the other tire next year). They could let each time choose which tire to race with before every race, but I doubt anybody would seriously consider that option.

As for which manufacturer to choose, both Pirelli and Michelin are up to the job. The 18" rims proposal sounds intriguing, at least. Avon Cooper? Mmmh...

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F1 cars use 4 tyres to race so I can't see the problem having Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli and Avon Cooper. It could be LF, RF, RF, RR respectively for everyone on the grid. The equality most loved by some former boss. mellow.gif

I agree with Quiet One but I want Pirelli in F1. Bridgestone said they're leaving, Michelin said they want tyre competition, Avon Cooper said I just want to be there...

Option 1: Bridgestone

Option 2: Pirelli

Option 3: Michelin + Avon Cooper

Option 1 is unlikely, they said something about a greener F1 and it was worrying even for Max and the likes. Option 3, no problem, the big teams would go with Michelin's and the small ones would lap 52 seconds a lap slower with Avon Cooper. Option 2, I think is the right choice we don't need a tyre war together with a cost cuting desperation.

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Avon are one of the biggest clubsport tyre suppliers in the world suppliying the likes of FFord, F5000, production sports racing, BMW E30 (shopping trollies) and many more. They are not a small company, Eric.

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Er. Goodyear Eagles.

I too am surprised they're so far not on the tender along with Dunlop.

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Er. Goodyear Eagles.

I too am surprised they're so far not on the tender along with Dunlop.

Dunlop have a big deal with BTCC currently, so I'm not too sure whether they'd really want to have the added expense of F1, espacially when BTCC does so much good for their brand.

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Goodyear and Dunlop are owned by the same company. Goodyear invest massive money to be the sole supplier of all three NASCAR national divisions which is a crap-ton of tires when you consider the races can be up to 600 miles (965.6 km) and have 43 vehicles participating in them. Doing the math, just for races alone (not practice and qualifying), it would be about 93,164 tires per season of NASCAR. Then, Dunlop are involved in other forms of racing, as mentioned, so I think F1 would just be a bit too much for them.

They make a rubbish tire in NASCAR as it is, and adding F1 would just make both series' tires worse.

Avon are one of the biggest clubsport tyre suppliers in the world suppliying the likes of FFord, F5000, production sports racing, BMW E30 (shopping trollies) and many more. They are not a small company, Eric.

There's a difference in cost to do that and to do F1, though.

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As I mentioned in my first post, Avon also supplies British F3 tyres. I'm not sure about the Euroseries though.

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To people who say, "oh, black and round, they are all the same". Good thing you are not in charge. Seeing as how the tire is the only thing in contact with the ground (or at least it should be..... Jaime found out what happens when they arne't), tires are really the single most important part of formula one. Everything esle, and I mean everything is built on how the tire works.

The tire influences the suspension, which influences the chassis which influences the weight distribution, which influences component packaging which influences the transmission and the engine.

Why do you think checking your tires on your road car is pretty much the most important thing you can do?

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To people who say, "oh, black and round, they are all the same". Good thing you are not in charge. Seeing as how the tire is the only thing in contact with the ground (or at least it should be..... Jaime found out what happens when they arne't), tires are really the single most important part of formula one. Everything esle, and I mean everything is built on how the tire works.

The tire influences the suspension, which influences the chassis which influences the weight distribution, which influences component packaging which influences the transmission and the engine.

Why do you think checking your tires on your road car is pretty much the most important thing you can do?

You don't say genius. However, from the point of view of a fan like me, tyres are 'black, round and boring'. Yes I know they are fundamental to the performance of a car, but I don't give a damn! If everyone is racing on the same rubber, then why do I care if one tyre tyre manufacturer produces better tyres than another? I want to see balls out racing. I want to see great strategy calls. I want to see impressive engineering. I don't give a rats who makes those black and round things, as long as someone does.

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You should care, professor. We want a tyre supplier that can produce the tough yet sticky compounds that aid in racing (the tyre compound being the most important thing when talking about a grippy racecar). Only Bridgestone and Michelin can claim experience with modern F1 cars. If any of the other manufacturers enter, the tyres will either be too hard and produce zero racing or they'll be so soft we'll see blow-outs and de-laminations every other race.

It will either be Bridgestone or Michelin.

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Bring in Avon - hopefully, with little experience, they will make a tyre will little grip that degrades like hell to improve the racing.

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Ole Peeps

Michelin have placed a number of terms and conditions on their supply of tyres next year including changing the size of the rims; another supplier so that they can have a fight for tyre supremacy; branding of Michelin on the cars as well as the tyre and driver overalls and finally, allegedly $3m from the teams that it supplies. Now it depends on how negotiable these provisos are.

I haven’t heard too many negative comments coming from the teams with regards to the increase in the wheels, so that looks like it could get passed on the nod.

Michelin aren’t interested in being the sole supplier of tyres in F1; they want competition. I can understand why, I would imagine that they are already confident that their product can out perform any other supplier out there. The other tyre supplier would also be playing by the rules that Michelin have insisted upon. This may well be great for the Michelin ego but it will not be good for F1 racing if one tyre make has so much of an advantage over the other(s). Michelin have great R&D behind them and also recent F1 experience and I am sure that all the major teams will want the Michelin tyre over any other new supplier. Another new supplier would be at a great disadvantage.

The branding and the money required for supplying the tyres would again disadvantage the teams at the back of the grid, who are counting the pennies, more than the well-financed teams at the front.

I’m in favour of a tyre war but only if it is a fair fight and there is room for development to take place. At present the rules do not allow for this to happen. If you start the season with a bad tyre, you’ll end up with a bad tyre at the end of the season. If you’ve designed the best chassis on the grid it will all be for little or no reward if the tyre is not up to scratch.

I see problems. This is a job of SuperBernie and his amazing superpower of negotiating skills. Maybe he can persuade Bridgestone to stay on in some capacity because if Michelin get there way it’s going to be fairly one sided.

Let’s find out who’s for real and who was bluffing.

Tchau.

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What I don't understand is why F1 is hell-bent on just having a single supplier again. Now, with interest from multiple companies is the perfect chance to have a tyre war again, yet they want to go down the same old boring road of just having one. I'm an F1 fan through and through, but some days I fail to understand some of the decisions the sport takes.

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For those who may be interested, Avon have supplied tyres to F1 in the past. In the late 50s with Connaught and again in 81 & 82 (I think), when Michelin did a runner (who'd have thought, eh?), they supplied Theodore, Tyrrell, Fittipaldi, Ensign and March. They weren't brilliant though and thought better of it, retreating to other categories and bikes.

Theodore81.jpg

I'd hazard a guess that they'd only be interested in sole supply. Otherwise they'll get a good spanking, methinks.

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