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cavallino

Does Alonso Always Crack Under Pressure?

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The last error was very weird because it was in a place where even rookie can hardly make mistake (at the entrance of Massenet - not at the apex where errors are frequent). We can presume that something wrong was with the car and sticking to the Ferrari's philosophy Alonso just took the blame upon himself. Who knows?

See this is an example of what I don't get - blind faith. Alonso admits that he f#cked up, yet people want to come up with a convoluted conspiracy explanation that it was the car and not him and Ferrari want to hide that. Or Alonso says he could have won, but still there are people who insist that in no way did he have a car that was good enough to win at Monaco, that just by getting 6th he put in a superhuman effort.

(And no this is not personal, just using your post as an example)

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Did you actually watch the race or are you just going by Maure's version of it? Alonso was going rather well that weekend on what is not his best circuit (remember him destroying his tyres and jumping chicanes in the past?) and then he crashed his car, which shattered his confidence. In the race, he drove around gingerly, struggled to overtake pathetically slow cars, and then one decent pit call allowed him to jump to where he finished. Oh and he fell asleep under the safety car. And you're giving most present day F1 drivers too much credit - driving within themselves and finishing the race is exactly what they excel at. Oh mathematically he was spectacular, starting 24th and finishing 5th or 6th or whatever it was, I would hope on this forum we are more discerning than that. Despite how emasculated F1 is, you can still tell when a driver is driving on the eddge, Alonso wasn't. And the tyre wear excuse isn't valid, as someone said, Massa was told he had zero wear, those tyres could have done a hundred laps.

All the greats smash it at Monaco, and come back and still push like hell again, and get it right.

I can't believe how anyone can argue that Alonso is anything better than the 5th best driver this year. And I find it staggering that people are happy to throw stuff around like 'oh Ferrari think he's better than Schumacher ever was', that just shows such ignorance of history.

Ferdy gets away too easy just because people believed he vanquished Schumacher, he's a fast but erratic driver with severe personality issues and a penchant for cheating. We'll see more of what I say as we go to Turkey, that's Massa's favourite track.

What exactly are you arguing with me? I can't see it amongst the over emotional babble. Did I watch the race? Seemingly, more than you did. How any overtakes at Monaco can be considered as 'gingerly' is laughable. Did you see how animated Alonso was before he got past his first kill, Di Grassi? Did he look gingerly, with shattered confidence? You are clutching at straws, Cav.

When Michael finished fifth in 2006 with a twenty car grid, did you consider it a gingerly drive? Alonso finished one place lower with a twenty four car grid. I thought his driving (especially in light of him having an unfamiliar car) was excellent. He did everything he could.

I say all of this without the fanatical comparison with Michael obsession that you have developed. I never said he was better than Michael, you brought Michael up, AGAIN. Remember, I quite like Michael. Also, why mention Michael's penalty. What the hell does that have to do with the quality of Fernando's drive at Monaco? Michael overtook him, so what? It was contentious circumstances. Alonso was correct, Michael screwed up.

As for the tyres? How the hell do you know how many laps the tyres would have done? Are you a Bridgestone engineer? No, neither am I. Massa had done far less laps on his hards, not that I saw Alonso being particuarly cautious anyway.

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Thanks for the welcome :D I have noticed there is a running theme of unanswered questions...

Kate's Dirty Sister... well my my :naughty:

I guess you're a Vettel fan

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What exactly are you arguing with me? I can't see it amongst the over emotional babble. Did I watch the race? Seemingly, more than you did. How any overtakes at Monaco can be considered as 'gingerly' is laughable. Did you see how animated Alonso was before he got past his first kill, Di Grassi? Did he look gingerly, with shattered confidence? You are clutching at straws, Cav.

When Michael finished fifth in 2006 with a twenty car grid, did you consider it a gingerly drive? Alonso finished one place lower with a twenty four car grid. I thought his driving (especially in light of him having an unfamiliar car) was excellent. He did everything he could.

I say all of this without the fanatical comparison with Michael obsession that you have developed. I never said he was better than Michael, you brought Michael up, AGAIN. Remember, I quite like Michael. Also, why mention Michael's penalty. What the hell does that have to do with the quality of Fernando's drive at Monaco? Michael overtook him, so what? It was contentious circumstances. Alonso was correct, Michael screwed up.

Dribs, wake up dude *slap Dribs* I know you are somewhere in there *slaps some more* get out of Maure's demon spell dude *slaps really hard* release him demon! RELEASE!

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Dribs, wake up dude *slap Dribs* I know you are somewhere in there *slaps some more* get out of Maure's demon spell dude *slaps really hard* release him demon! RELEASE!

:lol:

See what happens when people talk unreasonably for too long? Dribbler is only the first victim :whistling:

I agree with Maure, by the way.

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:lol:

See what happens when people talk unreasonably for too long? Dribbler is only the first victim :whistling:

I agree with Maure, by the way.

Brad :lol:

Tanita :lol: :lol:

Kate's DS - Girl. When you first post here, its a baptism of fire. The best pull through and you're handling yourself pretty darn well.

Maure is a formidable and worthy opponent, I've a lot of respect for the guy and if he thinks your post is worthy to reply to, he will do so. Go on Maure admit it, there's a streak of cool right there. ;)

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See this is an example of what I don't get - blind faith. Alonso admits that he f#cked up, yet people want to come up with a convoluted conspiracy explanation that it was the car and not him and Ferrari want to hide that. Or Alonso says he could have won, but still there are people who insist that in no way did he have a car that was good enough to win at Monaco, that just by getting 6th he put in a superhuman effort.

(And no this is not personal, just using your post as an example)

I look at this "error" without any feelings. I consider. I just look at the screen, on-board view and I see that aproaching Massenet even though blocking the front Alonso braked sufficiently for the car to be turned but.... if you look closely you will notice that he turned his steering wheel left completely and the front wheels did not completely respond (the wheels turned left only a little bit while the steering wheel was turned completely left).

Of course there is nothing personal but I also have to note that different comments and even names of themes like "haaahaaahaaa" acroos the discussion boards are examples for me of... blind hatred and blind faith... with conclusions coming from their heart and no from their mind.

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I look at this "error" without any feelings. I consider. I just look at the screen, on-board view and I see that aproaching Massenet even though blocking the front Alonso braked sufficiently for the car to be turned but.... if you look closely you will notice that he turned his steering wheel left completely and the front wheels did not completely respond (the wheels turned left only a little bit while the steering wheel was turned completely left).

Of course there is nothing personal but I also have to note that different comments and even names of themes like "haaahaaahaaa" acroos the discussion boards are examples for me of... blind hatred and blind faith... with conclusions coming from their heart and no from their mind.

When you say that, do you mean he turned the steering wheel and the wheels didn't turn as much as they should have done, or that he turned the steering wheel and the car didn't turn in as much as it should have done?

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When you say that, do you mean he turned the steering wheel and the wheels didn't turn as much as they should have done, or that he turned the steering wheel and the car didn't turn in as much as it should have done?

I mean he turned the steering wheel and the wheels didn't turn as much as they should have done (you can compare with the hairpin). The car turned... but only a bit... just to the extent the wheels turned. Therefore I assumed that there was smth with the car steering.

Actually this case reminds of the case with Senna at Tamburello in '94.

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:lol:

See what happens when people talk unreasonably for too long? Dribbler is only the first victim :whistling:

I agree with Maure, by the way.

Most sensible post in all these threads since a long time. Indeed, once the mud slinging starts, the whole issue loses relevance as the whole idea is to just prove that the other side is wrong, so we get tangled into a deeper and deeper debate about minutiae and the big picture is lost.

The big picture is: it was a battle for 6th place, one team ****ed it up based on an unclear rule, the stewards couldn't do much else besides handling a 20 sec penalty, they moved on, end of story.

Was it true racing ruined by FIA? Conspiracy theories? Was this Alonso's best performance ever? Was this Schumi being a cheater again? All BS, that is the problem of dragging these meaningless arguments for too long.

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Amusing that a bit of reality got through to you.

Indeed, Alonso is THREE points behind, let's repeat for the sake of itself, T-H-R-E-E points behind.

Now look at the elaborate scheme of Alonso's failure you are concocting on this T-H-R-E-E points.

That's right. It's not only you. We can all see how foolish your position is... and you are definitely more than 3 points behind.

You see, once again you are focusing in the wrong word, THREE is the wrong word the right one is BEHIND, he is suppose to be ahead but he is BEHIND and there were is he going to stay.

now about your THREE points let me tell you that this amount is the 300% of the margin used by Hamilton to defeat him even if he would be tie in points he still be in third plae right now so those THREE points really represent a lot more than that :naughty: as he is BEHIND. got it now? :P

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Right, right.

So Webber was the "great neutralizer" of Vettel, Vettel was the "great neutralizer" of Kubica, Kubica was the "great neutralizer" of Massa, Massa was the "great neutralizer" of Hamilton, Hamilton was the "great neutralizer" of Alonso, Alonso was the "great neutralizer" of Schumacher, Schumacher was the "great neutralizer" of Rosberg, Rosberg was the "great neutralizer" of...

The "track" that Monaco is has nothing to do with it.

Reality, then, is the "great neutralizer" of you.

So you admit that Alonso is at least at the same level of the above mentioned drivers and that you expected the same from all of them including Alonso and that all of tehm will do the same under the same circustance?

I would expect the best driver to at least try to pass the worse than him driver in front of him. :naughty:

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I mean he turned the steering wheel and the wheels didn't turn as much as they should have done (you can compare with the hairpin). The car turned... but only a bit... just to the extent the wheels turned. Therefore I assumed that there was smth with the car steering.

Actually this case reminds of the case with Senna at Tamburello in '94.

Ahh right. Well, there was no mention of any fault with his steering and I can't think of any logical reason why the team would let Alonso think he had made a mistake when it was a car fault. Unless they wanted to get rid of him, which is obviously not the case. I always think the team tries to do as much as it can to try and unerplay driver mistakes, not the other way around.

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laugh.gif that was funny.

laughing.gif

It was funny but the forums are plagued of rabid atheists and alonsophobics and they didn't understand it. tongue.gif

Yes.

Yes.

You don't need to tell me things twice. smile.gif

I still don't agree Alonso's engine blew up because of some sort of flaw. And for that reason Ferrari asked for approval to change some pneumatic valves which they got very quickly from the FIA because the flaw was true. For sure the way Alonso had to drive with a broken clutch didn't help but that's a different kettle of fish.

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Simple thing. You invent a problem for Alonso and I reply who doesn't suffer from it... you know, on account that fantasy works in any way one wants it to go.

The rest of your post is babble.

Haha! Thank you, you make me laugh! (In a good way not in a condescending way)

You think I invent a problem? I think it's you who won't accept the facts: Alonso is not leading the championship, if he's a good as you keep babbling on about then he would be!! It's not just about beating the other guys, it's if Alonso is getting the maximum results that his car is capable of, and his car is capable of having more than one win, a second and three point scoring positions. He simply isn't getting the ultimate out of that car and there has to be a reason for that, and pressure is likely to be just that. Yes he's only three points behind but his car's capabilities and his talent mean he should be in front.

What questions? You are fantasizing and I am amusing myself. There is no substance to this issue. You claim a fiction and try as hard as you can to make yourself believe it real.

I'll refresh your memory, the question was if Alonso is such an amazing driver (which I actually believe he his) what is the reason for him not to be leading the championship? And don't say he's only human again, I don't have the greatest memory but I think, and you can check if you'd like, but I think that ALL of the formula one drivers, current and previous, have in fact been human beings!! laugh.gif

You see, once again you are focusing in the wrong word, THREE is the wrong word the right one is BEHIND, he is suppose to be ahead but he is BEHIND and there were is he going to stay.

now about your THREE points let me tell you that this amount is the 300% of the margin used by Hamilton to defeat him even if he would be tie in points he still be in third plae right now so those THREE points really represent a lot more than that :naughty: as he is BEHIND. got it now? :P

Beautiful answer Schumikonen.

Kate's Dirty Sister... well my my :naughty:

I guess you're a Vettel fan

Well hello BradSpeedMan. Nope you guessed wrong, I just really am Kate's dirty sister biggrin.gif I'm joking, I am a Vettel fan, he's an awesome driver but I don't just have one favourite.

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Ahh right. Well, there was no mention of any fault with his steering and I can't think of any logical reason why the team would let Alonso think he had made a mistake when it was a car fault. Unless they wanted to get rid of him, which is obviously not the case. I always think the team tries to do as much as it can to try and unerplay driver mistakes, not the other way around.

And again why not look at the video and see with your own eyes before listening to somebody's words and making any opinion?

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Most sensible post in all these threads since a long time. Indeed, once the mud slinging starts, the whole issue loses relevance as the whole idea is to just prove that the other side is wrong, so we get tangled into a deeper and deeper debate about minutiae and the big picture is lost.

The big picture is: it was a battle for 6th place, one team ****ed it up based on an unclear rule, the stewards couldn't do much else besides handling a 20 sec penalty, they moved on, end of story.

Was it true racing ruined by FIA? Conspiracy theories? Was this Alonso's best performance ever? Was this Schumi being a cheater again? All BS, that is the problem of dragging these meaningless arguments for too long.

I know and I admit you are right with this post but I prefer to continue this battle than starting a new thread to talk about how boring are the weeks without races or something like that, I know nothing is going to change althought FIA is going to modify that rule but the damage is done already so something is changing.

Now let answer your question.

Was it true racing ruined by FIA? No, true racing will continue I don't think FIA damage anything, I just think a group of people wanted to bend this rule for their own benefit, nohing new this is something I have supported in the pass, so I am not against the penalty but against the interpretation of the rule itself, it is obvious they were some mistake by the people directing the race and the stewards, most people seem to agree to that but the penalty came anyway.

Conspiracy theories? No conspiracy here I think this is a case of influence, conspiracy is something done with premeditation but in this case I think Ferrari used their influence to turn the tide to their side, nothing new here.

Was this Alonso's best performance ever? No, he has had a lot of better races than this one and sure he will have some better races in the future is he continue driving for a top team.

Was this Schumi being a cheater again? No he was just racing he did what he was suppose to do under those circunstance.

there are your answers if you need to know more just post it here and I will answer you :P

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Yeah. I have a question.

When you people shut the **** up about this dead to the death subject, will someone wake me up? I've an appointment with life. Thanks.

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Yeah. I have a question.

When you people shut the **** up about this dead to the death subject, will someone wake me up? I've an appointment with life. Thanks.

If you're so bored with this thread, why the hell are you still in it then? Huh? Eh? Answer me that, baboon head!

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If you're so bored with this thread, why the hell are you still in it then? Huh? Eh? Answer me that, baboon head!

:lol: I'll be waiting for this answer :naughty:

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If you're so bored with this thread, why the hell are you still in it then? Huh? Eh? Answer me that, baboon head!

I like p**sing people off. You have to admit yourself its gone on far too long. The answer's always gonna be the same. Damon Hill is now the new Max Mosley. Alonso is Lucifer incarnate and Michael is holier than thou.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I guess you can't make a stubborn mule drink. Some will never view both sides of the story before they post. Thats my life lesson from this thread anyway.

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Some will never view both sides of the story before they post.

Imagine if we all started making sense; they'd have to shut the forum down through inactivity. I'm sure that's why Chris went; he actually started saying stuff that wasn't moustached meanibabble.

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Imagine if we all started making sense; they'd have to shut the forum down through inactivity. I'm sure that's why Chris went; he actually started saying stuff that wasn't moustached meanibabble.

I'd love to make sense. And keep my promises. You're right to laugh. I and it is one big joke.

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