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cavallino

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I did read it, but I arrived to my conclusion about page 3 or 4, after that I kept reading but it still looks like madness to me.

Edit: and I see what you said there, it's just that the occasional bad taste leaves a bad impression in the end. But at least you can pride yourself on being an internet scholar after enduring it XD

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I did read it, but I arrived to my conclusion about page 3 or 4, after that I kept reading but it still looks like madness to me.

Edit: and I see what you said there, it's just that the occasional bad taste leaves a bad impression in the end. But at least you can pride yourself on being an internet scholar after enduring it XD

Damn you, girl! For the upteenth time we KNOW that Alonso jumped the start, ok? Stop repeating it arghhhhhhhhhh!

(No, unlike Alehop I don't feel any sense of intellectual gain here. I only feel the emptiness of a lot of wasted effort for just a handful of worthy posts from both sides...I am getting too old to endure all this Sh#t...)

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Damn you, girl! For the upteenth time we KNOW that Alonso jumped the start, ok? Stop repeating it arghhhhhhhhhh!

(No, unlike Alehop I don't feel any sense of intellectual gain here. I only feel the emptiness of a lot of wasted effort for just a handful of worthy posts from both sides...I am getting too old to endure all this Sh#t...)

Indeed. :thbup:

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So you are claiming the track was clear.

I say the SC went into the pitlane to allow Webber, the winner, to pass the finish line first. I consider it the reason for the rule. Is it possible that all this was a scheme Whiting-Brawn to screw Alonso? Could certainly be.

Everything is clear... to Brawn, the acclaimed genius who was short of deification last season. Strange that this season he is no genius at all and Mercedes sucks rather than blasting the field away.

And yet, Brawn sees what no one else does. Ferrari told Alonso not to pass Hamilton while Brawn said the opposite to Schumacher. Must be something in the rulebook... as if it matter. I still say that it was Alonso who deserved a fine, a drive through, and a 24 position penalty on the grid for the next 15 races... at least.

Nobody deserved a penalty and yes the track was clear and so it was announced by the race control, the was not only announced as clear but also went green, under those circunstances nobody deserved a penalty the pass was fear, what FIA should have done was to void the pass and fix this rule as this was their fault.

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Damn you, girl! For the upteenth time we KNOW that Alonso jumped the start, ok? Stop repeating it arghhhhhhhhhh!

(No, unlike Alehop I don't feel any sense of intellectual gain here. I only feel the emptiness of a lot of wasted effort for just a handful of worthy posts from both sides...I am getting too old to endure all this Sh#t...)

:lol: Do you have any picture of your face while writing this? I think it would be even funnier. :P

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Oh, c'mon, how do you view everything as fixed? And that too, only to eff up Alonso? Why not eff up the championship leaders too? In fact, why not eff up everyone ahead of Schumi, if they're that much into fixing? Doesn't make sense to target just one guy alone.

No disrespect meant, but your insistence that everything is fixed against Alonso seems far fetched to me. The first race, Vettel's car? You wouldn't say that was fixed in Alonso's favour, would you? At the most, FIA may have looked winked at a mischievous act or two, but by and large they act uniformly stupid with all drivers.

Where did I say "everything is fixed against Alonso"? Sure, there is a record of persecution in McLaren in particular and in FIA in general. But this record is what it is, a record. Not a crystal ball into the future. Truth be said, both McLaren and FIA have made efforts to apologize to Alonso while saving face, but the future (on account of the record/past) is not on Alonso's side.

Now, the banter in the thread, from the title down to the fantasy posts by some, are from Alonsophobics or kin, transient or irrecoverable. They want to see something that wasn't there, namely, trying to convince themselves that Schumacher proved Alonso is a joke, and when this bit blew in their faces, trying to convince themselves about the legality of Schumacher's move so they could go up to square one. There is nothing else about this matter beyond that evident and easily to verify fact.

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Oh, c'mon, how do you view everything as fixed? And that too, only to eff up Alonso? Why not eff up the championship leaders too? In fact, why not eff up everyone ahead of Schumi, if they're that much into fixing? Doesn't make sense to target just one guy alone.

No disrespect meant, but your insistence that everything is fixed against Alonso seems far fetched to me. The first race, Vettel's car? You wouldn't say that was fixed in Alonso's favour, would you? At the most, FIA may have looked winked at a mischievous act or two, but by and large they act uniformly stupid with all drivers.

I realize now that I only responded partially.

Do I consider everything fixed in general when speaking of FIA and F1? You bet. F1 is a "sport" (or whatever alike) for you, I, and some others. F1 is a business for those that run it. As a business, one does not let it run on its own merry way on principle. Moreover, the history of F1 plainly demonstrates that FIA interferes as it sees fit and with devastating consequences to fair play. Summing up, only those naive, gullible, or new to F1 are allowed to believe F1 is both "clean" and a "sport". The rest of us should know better.

Specifics regarding a particular race or driver should be explained on account of whether FIA wanted things to be moved in this or that direction. Even when no penalties are handed, FIA decided so and, therefore, interfered in such a manner.

The bottom line is that F1 is not "fair game" by any standard. It is a business with business interests and objectives for institution to teams and drivers. Furthermore, the ruling folks milking this particular line of business have no regard for F1 beyond how much they can pocket. Their drunken swaggers over the years demonstrate this. For instance, the opening (and reopening) of new (and old) "markets" by means of "allowing" some drivers to briefly shine. Same goes for "green" efforts and similar ridiculous schemes in the face of what F1 should be. Anyway, sht comes and go, teams/drivers/rules, etc, the only thing that remains is Ecclestone p**sing all around the perimeter of the fence that chockes F1.

And we all know why.

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If you had read the whole thread you would have been able to observe how it evolved from an informal and full of bad taste to an analytical and profound one. That's what really matters for an internet scholar's point of view. sleep.gif

You are a kind man, AleHop.

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(No, unlike Alehop I don't feel any sense of intellectual gain here. I only feel the emptiness of a lot of wasted effort for just a handful of worthy posts from both sides...I am getting too old to endure all this Sh#t...)

Maybe not intelletual gain but you do get more out of it that "emptiness" and "wasted effort".

Be honest.

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Nobody deserved a penalty and yes the track was clear and so it was announced by the race control, the was not only announced as clear but also went green, under those circunstances nobody deserved a penalty the pass was fear, what FIA should have done was to void the pass and fix this rule as this was their fault.

Really? I thought the cars involved in the latest crash were still on track. My mistake... if it is so.

Still, what was said and done is against what the rulebook says. I agree with Oh Quite One on this one. The rulebook supersedes errors like those green lights.

Nonetheless, does nobody deserve a penalty? If you really mean "nobody" (which you don't) then speeding in the pitlane as Webber did is now ok by you, for example. Not what you meant, ey?

The truth is that we all know that the rulebook means sht to FIA and you are pssed that it is not bent in Schumacher's and Brawn's direction as it has been in the past. Well, it sucks to be you. On the upside, FIA generally clears the way for Schumacher, Brawn, and alike "friends" in the take, thus my comment regarding that it was Alonso who should have been penalized... and, were the past to repeat itself and Alonso pulls away in the WDC, he will be penalized again for whatever implausible thing if not for simply breathing. We've all seen it in the past. Schumacher, Brawn, other "friends" get their way more often than not.

So wait for a better day. It's generally sunny where you seek cover.

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The truth is that we all know that the rulebook means sht to FIA and you are pssed that it is not bent in Schumacher's and Brawn's direction as it has been in the past. Well, it sucks to be you. On the upside, FIA generally clears the way for Schumacher, Brawn, and alike "friends" in the take, thus my comment regarding that it was Alonso who should have been penalized... and, were the past to repeat itself and Alonso pulls away in the WDC, he will be penalized again for whatever implausible thing if not for simply breathing. We've all seen it in the past. Schumacher, Brawn, other "friends" get their way more often than not.

So wait for a better day. It's generally sunny where you seek cover.

But this time Schu, Brawn & co are nowhere in the title race(s). So how's "punishing" Alonso a play in their favour? If at all such a thing happens, it will benefit the 2 bulls & 2 maccas.

Also, I don't understand how someone on the take gets a favour. Usually, the one in the take returns the favour. Doesn't make sense that the one on the take also gets more favours.

Anyway, if you really believe that F1 is a farce (I sometimes think it is, though not in the manner of fixing, but the boring races), what makes you see it? Just a genuine question, no insult intended. In your eyes, is it to see Alonso's heroics despite FIA's opposition?

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10 pages?

seriously?

:lol:

Yeah, but why not? We have the space for it. We either thrash something or someone to death or have all threads like the debate thread. No disrespect to the intentions of that, but I would far rather read through everything and respond to the worthy stuff and ignore the babbling bollocks, rather than have a subject decided and put to bed. Not only that but am I the only one who reads the posts of certain members to gauge where they are mentally? We all have good and bad moods. Getting a feel for people and the way they ebb and flow is all part of the magic of forums like these and allows you to decide just how harsh or diplomatic you want to be. Does any of that make sense?

Edited to include babbling bollocks.

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Damn you, girl! For the upteenth time we KNOW that Alonso jumped the start, ok? Stop repeating it arghhhhhhhhhh!

(No, unlike Alehop I don't feel any sense of intellectual gain here. I only feel the emptiness of a lot of wasted effort for just a handful of worthy posts from both sides...I am getting too old to endure all this Sh#t...)

Alsonso jumped the start?? When was that?? Nobody's mentioned it.

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Yeah, but why not? We have the space for it. We either thrash something or someone to death or have all threads like the debate thread. No disrespect to the intentions of that, but I would far rather read through everything and respond to the worthy stuff and ignore the babbling bollocks, rather than have a subject decided and put to bed. Not only that but am I the only one who reads the posts of certain members to gauge where they are mentally? We all have good and bad moods. Getting a feel for people and the way they ebb and flow is all part of the magic of forums like these and allows you to decide just how harsh or diplomatic you want to be. Does any of that make sense?

Edited to include babbling bollocks.

No, but I always try to imagine what colour underwear they had on when they made a post.

I believe you were naked when you made this one.

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Yeah, but why not? We have the space for it. We either thrash something or someone to death or have all threads like the debate thread. No disrespect to the intentions of that, but I would far rather read through everything and respond to the worthy stuff and ignore the babbling bollocks, rather than have a subject decided and put to bed. Not only that but am I the only one who reads the posts of certain members to gauge where they are mentally? We all have good and bad moods. Getting a feel for people and the way they ebb and flow is all part of the magic of forums like these and allows you to decide just how harsh or diplomatic you want to be. Does any of that make sense?

Edited to include babbling bollocks.

The debate thread again?

Seriously?

:lol:

I wish I'd never bothered starting the bollocking thing. It seems now that everything has become so bloody serious.

What's worse, since Cav and Chris had their little "beef", everyone seems to hold me responsible.

We're loosing what made TF1 so much fun - It's like "I am legend" with Andres as Will Smith. I get the impression I'm his dog - I can feel the darkness coming over me - quick suffocate me before I bite you Andres! Who will save humanity now? Who will be our last, best hope? Who will be able to crack a joke without the evil forces of killjoyism biting them? Who?

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No, but I always try to imagine what colour underwear they had on when they made a post.

I believe you were naked when you made this one.

I was fully clothed. But I imagined you naked as I typed.

The debate thread again?

Seriously?

:lol:

I wish I'd never bothered starting the bollocking thing. It seems now that everything has become so bloody serious.

What's worse, since Cav and Chris had their little "beef", everyone seems to hold me responsible.

We're loosing what made TF1 so much fun - It's like "I am legend" with Andres as Will Smith. I get the impression I'm his dog - I can feel the darkness coming over me - quick suffocate me before I bite you Andres! Who will save humanity now? Who will be our last, best hope? Who will be able to crack a joke without the evil forces of killjoyism biting them? Who?

F*ck knows, twat head.

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The debate thread again?

Seriously?

:lol:

I wish I'd never bothered starting the bollocking thing. It seems now that everything has become so bloody serious.

What's worse, since Cav and Chris had their little "beef", everyone seems to hold me responsible.

We're loosing what made TF1 so much fun - It's like "I am legend" with Andres as Will Smith. I get the impression I'm his dog - I can feel the darkness coming over me - quick suffocate me before I bite you Andres! Who will save humanity now? Who will be our last, best hope? Who will be able to crack a joke without the evil forces of killjoyism biting them? Who?

Can I just call you bitch?

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F*ck knows, twat head.

Dribs - If you're just messing, cool.

If you're being serious, then I'm not going to argue with you. There's been too much of that around here lately.

Can I just call you bitch?

What was the dog's name? Can't remember now...

*googles*

"Sam" - right on! manly male dog name! woof!

*reads on*

"short for Samantha" - bollocks!.... (or lack of).

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Really? I thought the cars involved in the latest crash were still on track. My mistake... if it is so.

Still, what was said and done is against what the rulebook says. I agree with Oh Quite One on this one. The rulebook supersedes errors like those green lights.

My coffee is ready, I'll be here all day after church waiting for you to show me that those green lights were caused by an error and please tell me whose error it was.

now let me remind you this:

The track clear cars were removed out of the track. (even if they were still on track the race would not get to that point any more)

Race control announced SC IN this lap.

Race control announced Track Clear.

Green lights were shown.

Green flags were shown.

Yellow flags were removed.

SC boards were removed.

If the green lights were an error then there were too many errors in that short period of time but so far only you say they were an error, show me some evidence of that error nad if they were really an error no driver should be penalized for that, I keep me point, now let see if you can keep yours :P

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But this time Schu, Brawn & co are nowhere in the title race(s). So how's "punishing" Alonso a play in their favour? If at all such a thing happens, it will benefit the 2 bulls & 2 maccas.

Also, I don't understand how someone on the take gets a favour. Usually, the one in the take returns the favour. Doesn't make sense that the one on the take also gets more favours.

Anyway, if you really believe that F1 is a farce (I sometimes think it is, though not in the manner of fixing, but the boring races), what makes you see it? Just a genuine question, no insult intended. In your eyes, is it to see Alonso's heroics despite FIA's opposition?

Your 1st paragraph. It's not always an issue of "titles". Moreover, the "thick-as-thieves" is only an expression. In the real world, thieves stick together until trouble or self-interest or etc gets in the way... at which point, thieves screw each other mercilesly. And, btw, McLaren and Hamilton have had their large share of FIA's gifts and if Ecclestone finds a way to cash on those two (or three, Button is the white-pride over the white-guilty cheeky bit), strange fines and fixes will find their way as the season evolves.

Your 2nd paragraph. It is not an issue of "favors". It is a matter of accretion of dacoity. Using a Confucian simile, when the king dances, the court dances, and when the king slaughters, the court slaughters. In FIA's case, the rot is at the top and, provided you play your part, you can walk away with a chunk of the swag. There are so many examples that it is almost insane, from Williams or McLaren getting certain contracts to how Brawn robbed Honda blind. FIA's hands were and remain at the center of it all.

Your 3rd paragraph. I'm no Alonso fan. I think of him as second best to Kimi. But I speak with honesty which means that, imo, Alonso remains favorite this season. But hey, there are many examples of my disinterested approach to these matters. For example, I say without any contradiction whatsover that, eventhough I consider Kimi the best racer out there, he won his WDC from Alonso due to team oders at Ferrari... simple as that. Another example, when last season BrawnGP apparently came up with a technical development that gave them a significant edge, I applauded (and not only because they had bypassed FIA's choke on development)... and when I found out that Whiting had explictly forbidden RBR and Renault from developing the exact same diffuser he himself had explicitly allowed BrawnGP, I said it was a fix and there it is for all to see. Brawn, aka the "genius", got an entire team for a penny (allegedly the most expensive car in the grid) and then sold it for hundreds of millions... pure legerdemain. FIA made this possible and you can bet the cash made its rounds to the very top.

So you ask, why do I watch? It is a show. That it is scripted does not eliminate room for improvisation and mishap (on FIA's part) as well as upsets, flukes and loosely speaking _chance_ to give the underdog an opportunity to fight. All in all, I enjoy the script as well as its (mis)execution, in particular when it falls apart (most often) and Whiting comes up with the most absurd ruling, one that there is no way can be justified... of course, on a personal note, it depends how much access one has to the "inside" of the circus. I'm one person away from the fry of pitlane and the intra-stories have me doubling up with laughter GP after GP.

But, foremost, I watch F1 because I enjoy racing. I don't care about passing and such. Just to watch an F1 change direction makes my day. I'm a bike guy before it all so MotoGP, Superbikes, etc are my home. Still, F1 is become dear to me over the years... and, heck, it beats most other shows on TV. Betty who? House who? Supernatural what? Yeah, I'll stick to motor racing.

Edit typos.

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My coffee is ready, I'll be here all day after church waiting for you to show me that those green lights were caused by an error and please tell me whose error it was.

Hope the trip to church taught you not to believe you have the right to tell others what to do. If it didn't, there is always next sunday. Apply yourself.

The green lights are irrelevant for all purposes. You would have to argue that when Brawn told Schumacher to try a move on Alonso (while Alonso was being told not to do the same on Hamilton), Brawn was seeing into the future that such lights would be green. I fear you would come to the same problem you have below with (for example) whether or not the track was clean... why? Becayse you just don't know.

now let me remind you this:

Remain yourself.

The track clear cars were removed out of the track. (even if they were still on track the race would not get to that point any more)

So you aren't sure and, moreover, claim green flags could be shown despite a blocked track.

Race control announced SC IN this lap.

So? The didn't want the SC to cross the race ahead of the winner. My guess is that that is the reason for the ruling in the first place. You can call it an educated gesture for the cheering crowds to believe it was a race to the finish... or masturbate on another fantasy. Insignificant difference, afaik.

Race control announced Track Clear.

Was it? You don't know. Apparently race control didn't either.

Green lights were shown.

So? They flag guys fcked up or thought it didn't matter. What's evident is that they didn't have the rulebook in hand.

Green flags were shown.

Again, so? They flag guys fcked up or thought it didn't matter. What's evident is that they didn't have the rulebook in hand.

Yellow flags were removed.

Again, so? They flag guys fcked up or thought it didn't matter. What's evident is that they didn't have the rulebook in hand.

SC boards were removed.

Evidently, since the SC was coming in as clearly specified in the rulebook.

If the green lights were an error then there were too many errors in that short period of time but so far only you say they were an error, show me some evidence of that error nad if they were really an error no driver should be penalized for that, I keep me point, now let see if you can keep yours :P

You are forcing my hand here. Darn it. It will have to give you the most sought after "absolute proof". Here it goes. Ready?

I don't give a flying fck.

Did it get through? I'll repeat it. No problem. I'll even type it bold, italic, and underline because it's just 3 simple clicks.

I don't give a flying fck.

Why? Because Whiting could've penalize Alonso, or Webber, or even Button despite being long retired from the race. Because the rulebook and its application are a joke and have been for years. Because whether or not Schumacher's pass Alonso means something of great significance to you, it means squat to me. In short, because, I don't give a Nac-Nac Superman-Seat-Grab Bunny-hop Saran-Wrap Frontal-Flip flying fck.

So, again, sorry your dear Schumacher got screwed over. It sucks to be you. You should get the better of it in next races since Schumacher, Brawn, etc, have gotten away (traditionally) with far more than most. In fact, Alonso is one those poor suckers that have often been trampled by Whiting... so you will have more than a chance to get your kick.

And, well, a slap on the back from Japan for having this thread blow in your face. Chin up.

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It's official!! It was Damon Hill's fault:

"Reports from Monaco suggest that Michael Schumacher was lucky to get only a 20s penalty for his illegal move on Fernando Alonso at the final corner of Sunday’s grand prix.

Race steward Damon Hill pushed for much sterner penalties, including a custodial sentence for his former nemesis, for what he might have called a “typically underhand action” – although we cannot be sure he even thought of saying that.

Apart from the Alonso move, Damon allegedly also asked for several other offences he saw over the weekend to be considered:

On many occasions the Mercedes driver was seen driving at 150mph on Monte Carlo roads, most of which have a maximum speed limit of 30mph.

Schumacher was also cited by Hill for not using his indicators or for slowing at pedestrian crossings.

Hill added that Schumacher’s misdemeanours where not confined to his driving but were also in evidence in the paddock, where he said he saw him wearing “silvery clothes” among other offences.

The other stewards managed to convince Hill to 'let it go' and apart from the crime of overtaking another driver, all other charges were dropped."

A classic from Gravel Trap, ITV website clap3.gif

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Hill is a c#ck. Its official. Steph is a wrinkled old pair of bollocks- source TF1 hearsay.

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