Massa Is A Goner And Ferrari Has Finally Got It

[BradSpeedMan 6]

To quote you: "However, one must keep in mind that driver adaptability is also a factor, iow, it might not be that the car suits Alonso but that Alonso makes himself suit the car."

Exactly, Kimi should have adapted to the car, like Massa adapted to the car. Kimi had a good start to the season winning two races, so the car can't have been that undrivable for him personally. The car was capable of winning, so any good driver should be able to get good results, Kimi didn't, Massa did. (In fact from Monaco onwards is when I totally fell out of love with him, I never saw his "ragged edge" raw speed again apart from Spa when he got me all excited only to later crash out.)

I have great respect for all F1 drivers, I might laugh and joke about some, but they are awesome. And for Massa to come second, beating all the others but one, he did well.

Your post esssentially sums it up. Massa beat a de-motivated Kimi. Also, the car became more understeery as Ferrari together with Michael supported Massa. The updates became suitable to Massa after Malasia 2008, to bad effect. 2007 was a true reflection of how to compare the 2 driver's, and Todt was in charge, get it?

[UrKo 0]

Ferrari should hire me as their advisor as i said years back that massa isnt wdc material. Now if massa leaves ferrari then yes, Kubica will take his place. I don't thnik there's any other driver on the grid which would feel the gap in ferrari.

Having two favorite drivers in the same team would be need too

[Rainmaster 7]

Sounds like a perfect place for a Grand Prix.

Classic!

[Schumikonen 2]

And then you say you're not discriminating...

I am not discriminating I said I will call you, I just didn't say when

[Schumikonen 2]

Nosotros decimos que es preferible que te rompan el culo una vez a la semana a que te rompan los huevos todos los días...

Did you got that from Videomatch? those guys are amazing especially El cuarteto obrero I even know some of their songs.

[JHS 1]

First of all, I'm a big fan of Ferrari, they are the only team I really support.

However. I do think they have really c0cked up that has gone back to 2006. The misttake there was signing up Kimi Raikkonen and essentially forcing Michael into retirement.

I have no doubts that Michael could have continued a couple more years if Ferrari had signed him up instead of Kimi and possibly won the title again based on the mistakes the leading contenders made.

But hey, retrospective is a beautiful thing.

I personally don't think they'll drop Massa. But then again, I didn't think Alonso would be dressed in red this early.

[Kate's Dirty Sister 0]

Headline on BBC F1 page...

Ferrari set to hold on to Felipe Massa for 2011

In this BBC interview with Stefano Domenicalli, he was asked if the drivers will stay the same for 2011 and he said "Yes I think so" he was then asked if he was sure and he answered "yes".

So there you have it, proof that Massa will be driving for Ferrari next year because F1 guys always tell the truth about things like this so early in the season!

[Ikyrotz 0]

First of all, I'm a big fan of Ferrari, they are the only team I really support.

However. I do think they have really c0cked up that has gone back to 2006. The misttake there was signing up Kimi Raikkonen and essentially forcing Michael into retirement.

I have no doubts that Michael could have continued a couple more years if Ferrari had signed him up instead of Kimi and possibly won the title again based on the mistakes the leading contenders made.

But hey, retrospective is a beautiful thing.

I personally don't think they'll drop Massa. But then again, I didn't think Alonso would be dressed in red this early.

I agree that the Ferrari management has screwed things up, but not by signing wrong drivers. After all, Kimi did bring WDC to Ferrari after two years during which Michael wasn't up to it. I think the real screw up was bringing Domenicali in to replace Jean Todt, after that the team just went down.

Based on Domenicali's recent comments, it looks like you are right and Massa will stay.

[JHS 1]

I don't think it was a case he wasn't up to it, more the car wasn't up to it. The Renault (in the case of 2005) was a much greater machine than the F2005. Seeing how convincingly Schumacher dominated '04, it's clear to me that wasn't the driver who was the problem, it was the car.

Well, for the sheer bucket load of cash they spent signing Kimi, I was really under the illusion that he'd sort of....well, win more often. It was a case as if Ferrari had traded in an old banger, got something that looked new and good, started on the first attempted but faulted there after.

Oh, and talking of Kimi, he's not going to Red Bull. See here.

And yep, this thread has been shot down in flames. That's what happens to the over confident poster. And AUTOSPORT, seeing as their title story this week who is at Ferrari next season between Massa, Webber and Kubica when all three are apparently on the verge of signing contracts with their existing teams. Smart.

[Rainmaster 7]

I don't think it was a case he wasn't up to it, more the car wasn't up to it. The Renault (in the case of 2005) was a much greater machine than the F2005. Seeing how convincingly Schumacher dominated '04, it's clear to me that wasn't the driver who was the problem, it was the car.

Well, for the sheer bucket load of cash they spent signing Kimi, I was really under the illusion that he'd sort of....well, win more often. It was a case as if Ferrari had traded in an old banger, got something that looked new and good, started on the first attempted but faulted there after.

Oh, and talking of Kimi, he's not going to Red Bull. See here.

And yep, this thread has been shot down in flames. That's what happens to the over confident poster. And AUTOSPORT, seeing as their title story this week who is at Ferrari next season between Massa, Webber and Kubica when all three are apparently on the verge of signing contracts with their existing teams. Smart.

Then again, maybe you are being too quick in shooting down those people (Autosport & whoever started this thread), by following the same mistake of being over confident about your opinion! Like you indicated in a previous post, the comments teams make to the press don't actually mean all that much at all. So when Ferrari say they'll re-sign Massa, or Red Bull say the same for Webbo, it doesn't really help us either way in making a guess on what will happen. The only time you'll know your right is when the contracts are actually signed, until then, perhaps best to reserve comment on other people's stupidity, at risk of making yourself look stupid by trying to make others look stupid, if you get me

Anyway, press releases aside, the best guess is to look at on track performances and the relationship with the team. In both aspects, according to common sense, Webber and Kubica are both looking highly likely to be retained, and because those two drivers are probably top of Ferrari's (available) drivers short-list, it means Massa will probably be kept by default (nobody decent to replace him). I could be wrong though, and it depends on those 2 factors staying healthy during contract talks.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Happy now maure that Massa is gone??

[AleHop 0]

Can't say about the pressure... Alonso's got a 3 or 4 year contract and is the best racer left in the field. Massa, well, that's another tale.

I agree pressure is more on Massa's shoulders but Turkey's been a very productive track for him and Alonso knows it would be a turning point to beat him there.

But you do bring a good point about the tyres. There is much backroom and c#ck sucking going on nowadays to figure this one out. Let's see who's best as Ecclestone's viagra.

It seems Pirelli will be the tyre suplier. Pirelli is an Italian company, is it a good thing for Ferrari? At least it doesn't look a bad thing, hmmm... No need for Kubica to stay at Renault?

[maure 1]

Aww you think of me as family (!) that's so nice! And obviously you're trying to put me down with your condescending "tiny" but I'm a girl!!! Tiny is one of THE best compliments, so thank you! Does my bum look good in this? No because Maure says I'm tiny.

Nope, you've got it wrong.

I simply didn't give enough of a sht to take the time to read your handle. It turns out someone's DIRTY sister, not someone's TINY sister.

To quote you: "However, one must keep in mind that driver adaptability is also a factor, iow, it might not be that the car suits Alonso but that Alonso makes himself suit the car."

Exactly, Kimi should have adapted to the car, like Massa adapted to the car.

Kimi had a good start to the season winning two races, so the car can't have been that undrivable for him personally. The car was capable of winning, so any good driver should be able to get good results, Kimi didn't, Massa did. (In fact from Monaco onwards is when I totally fell out of love with him, I never saw his "ragged edge" raw speed again apart from Spa when he got me all excited only to later crash out.)

I have great respect for all F1 drivers, I might laugh and joke about some, but they are awesome. And for Massa to come second, beating all the others but one, he did well.

You are confused. Kimi didn't have to adapt to anything. Kimi was the best driver in the field. If anyone should anything, it was Ferrari who should've adapted to Kimi.

Don't forget that Kimi still had a bunch of fastest laps, regardless, while the muppets made idiots of themselves.

Now you either don't know how to count or you are talking about the back end of the season when Massa had a huge piece of suspension spring rammed into his head so no longer could drive. If you are talking about the latter, then shame on you that you can only consolidate Kimi's woeful driving as being able to beat someone who is not racing.

For your records the points up to Massa's crash was: Kimi: 10 Points Massa: 22 Points

You misconstrue what I typed which was, literally, "Almost the last entire seemed a "fck you" from Kimi to the team, and deservedly so.". A fck you to the t-e-a-m.

Yeah...that is not going to happen. Everything I write in here will be for fun, for laughs and for pure playful value and in the most infantile way possible. Besides, you love it really

It's true. I don't give a damn.

BTW if you didn't contradict yourself it would be impossible to misconstrue your posts.

Absurd notion. To misconstrue simple means to "Interpret in the wrong way". The quality, logic, or whatever of what's beiing interpreted is irrelevant.

You really like the word suck don't you?

When talking about Massa, sucking comes to mind first.

Try it... Massa! (1/10 secs later) Sucks!

It's inevitable.

Now if you knew anything about me, you'd know that I'd take that as a dare...although you write "Behave or else" I hear "don't behave because I have a surprise for you"...

...ooh goodie I love surprises! I'll misbehave at every opportunity!!!

If you have costumes to go with the misbehavior, we might still have fun.

And, no, Mosley is not invited.

[maure 1]

Happy now maure that Massa is gone??

Is he gone? Fvcking Ferrari morons are playing coy...

And if he is gone, wouldn't you be happy to have someone at Ferrari that can push Alonso? I would be willing to sacrifize and give up tantric sex for a week, which is no small thing at all whatsoever, in exchange of a pair of strong drivers on Ferraris.

[maure 1]

I agree pressure is more on Massa's shoulders but Turkey's been a very productive track for him and Alonso knows it would be a turning point to beat him there.

True that some will read a lot into this.

I wonder myself... honestly. There seems to be little point putting so much on the line on a single GP.

It seems Pirelli will be the tyre suplier. Pirelli is an Italian company, is it a good thing for Ferrari? At least it doesn't look a bad thing, hmmm... No need for Kubica to stay at Renault?

The closing question made me smile.

-----------------------

I just saw your sig and noticed:

The Devil's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Doesn't it seem that the following is closer to the truth:

God's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist.

[yurp 0]

I just saw your sig and noticed:

The Devil's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Doesn't it seem that the following is closer to the truth:

God's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Or maybe:

Religion's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world there was a magic man in control of everything.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Even better. Religion sucks. Like Massa.

[Kate's Dirty Sister 0]

You are confused. Kimi didn't have to adapt to anything. Kimi was the best driver in the field. If anyone should anything, it was Ferrari who should've adapted to Kimi.

Don't forget that Kimi still had a bunch of fastest laps, regardless, while the muppets made idiots of themselves.

Do not tell me what I am, just because I have my own opinion doesn't mean I am confused/cuckoo/live in a fantasy or whatever else you've said. If someone had a different opinion to me but it was obviously good, I wouldn't be afraid to say so. I am not a bigot, blindly refusing that other peoples views could be right. In F1 I don't have unconditional love for any team or driver, in fact I have had varying opinions on most teams/drivers...hating Schumey in the 90's loving him in 00's...loving Kimi until 2007/8, deeply dissapointed with Kimi...appreciating Alonso, hating, detesting, wanting to beat the crap out of Alonso and now back to appreciating...It's not that I am fickle, people and circumstances change and so do my opinions of them. And it matters to me what the man behind the steering wheel is like, I know a lot of people couldn't care less, it's all about the racing but to me if the driver is an arsehole out side of the c#ckpit then it makes a difference to how I see them.

Kimi is the sort of person that needs someone on his back 24/7, McLaren did that naturally, they are the most uptight team out there, yeah he might not have loved the working environment as much as Ferrari but they got the best out of him, we saw how super incredibly quick he was and how he deserved the 2003 title(IMO). Ferrari have a more relaxed set up and it brought out the worst in him, the lackadaisical, can't be arsed attitude that might be fun but not productive. Ferrari are not in the wrong, Kimi is a full grown man who should know what his weaknesses are and the move to Ferrari was blatantly a bad move for him from the start and which other drivers like Schumacher and Alonso would have foreseen and either not made the move or at least hired Mr. Motivator to keep him honest. Yeah he won a title with them but if he had stayed at McLaren he would have won the title anyway. In fact maybe 2008 too.

When talking about Massa, sucking comes to mind first.

Try it... Massa! (1/10 secs later) Sucks!

It's inevitable.

I think you have brainwashed me because I really did think "sucks" before reading it! The power of suggestion...

If you have costumes to go with the misbehavior, we might still have fun.

And, no, Mosley is not invited.

Ha! Of course, costumes go hand in hand with misbehaviour.

[AleHop 0]

There seems to be little point putting so much on the line on a single GP.

True.

I just saw your sig and noticed:

The Devil's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Doesn't it seem that the following is closer to the truth:

God's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he didn't exist.

There's no reason for God to hide from the world.

Or maybe:

Religion's greatest accomplishment was convincing the world there was a magic man in control of everything.

Even better. Religion sucks. Like Massa.

But we were not talking about religion just yet.

[JHS 1]

Then again, maybe you are being too quick in shooting down those people (Autosport & whoever started this thread), by following the same mistake of being over confident about your opinion! Like you indicated in a previous post, the comments teams make to the press don't actually mean all that much at all. So when Ferrari say they'll re-sign Massa, or Red Bull say the same for Webbo, it doesn't really help us either way in making a guess on what will happen. The only time you'll know your right is when the contracts are actually signed, until then, perhaps best to reserve comment on other people's stupidity, at risk of making yourself look stupid by trying to make others look stupid, if you get me

Anyway, press releases aside, the best guess is to look at on track performances and the relationship with the team. In both aspects, according to common sense, Webber and Kubica are both looking highly likely to be retained, and because those two drivers are probably top of Ferrari's (available) drivers short-list, it means Massa will probably be kept by default (nobody decent to replace him). I could be wrong though, and it depends on those 2 factors staying healthy during contract talks.

Yes, but then again, I'd take Dominicalli's word over somebody who has a vendetta against Massa on a forum. Forums arn't exactly the best place to get 100% bonafide facts.

[Kopite Girl 0]

True.

There's no reason for God to hide from the world.

But we were not talking about religion just yet.

Blame Adam, he said the R word first. Anyway, I remember a debate I had with you over the same subject which I quite enjoyed. I forgot to say thanks. Was the first heated debate in a long time that I'd had. So thanks.

Back to topic. Massa still sucks.

[yurp 0]

F1 is a religion.

At least the tifosi would have you believe so.

[Jean Todt 4]

any more pathetic excuses for Massa's good performance?

[AleHop 0]

The truth is Ferrari are the 4th or 5th team. Massa did a superb lap and he could only achieve 8th. Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes and Renault are ahead of Ferrari in Turkey, at least in Qualifying. They were the 2nd team at the start of the season and today they're closer to Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso.

[blackpebel 0]

I think Kubica seems the most likely to take Massa's place. Kubica seems super quick so will be nice to see him in the best car to see what he can actually do.

some how i want an alonso/kubica pairing in ferrari. both of them have a nag of working close to the mechanics, im sure they can work wonders with the car.